Breaking Bad - Season 5, Part 1 - Sundays on AMC

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blahblah...blah said:
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Seriously, guys, shouldn't we just consider ourselves lucky that a medium of entertainment exists which has provided us with dozens of shows which could all be realistically considered to be 'top tier'? Whether you prefer gritty realism, cartoonish escapades, high-octane action, in-depth character studies, period pieces, or a little bit of each, television has you covered. Some people will consider this show as one of the all-time greats (myself included), but we would be foolish to assert that other shows were not equally good.
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The REALLY sad part is everyone likes all of the shows being discussed. It's just the "order in which they are great from best to worst" that we disagree on. Very loltastic. :D
 
Oxigen_Waste said:
Wait, what? Season 4? So you got through the worst season of all (2) and stopped watching it during the best season in the whole show? That's weird, man!
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Season 2 of The Wire has to be the most incredibly UNDERrated season of any TV show, ever.

I seriously don't understand why anyone that likes the series wouldn't like that season - it's fascinating.
 
Downhome said:
Sounds good!

I loved The Shield, LOVED IT, so hopefully The Wire will really connect with me also.
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I love both, but they're nothing alike. At all. Completely different shows.

Heisenberg said:
Season 2 of The Wire has to be the most incredibly UNDERrated season of any TV show, ever.

I seriously don't understand why anyone that likes the series wouldn't like that season - it's fascinating.
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Of course it is. It's awesome. Incredible, actually. It just happens to be the one that's the least good out of the 5. IMO.
 
Heisenberg said:
Season 2 of The Wire has to be the most incredibly UNDERrated season of any TV show, ever.

I seriously don't understand why anyone that likes the series wouldn't like that season - it's fascinating.
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Some people just don't care about the decay of the American working class, I guess.

I loved it.
 
Oxigen_Waste said:
You seem to think I don't value BB's strenghts. I preffer BB to all of the shows I listed in the god tier. It's more fun to watch and I connect more with it. But the undeniable fact here is that quality resides more in certain factors than it does in others. The writing in BB is worse than the others, that counts alot. The acting is also worse. So is the narrative and the pacing in seasons 2 and 3 is terrible. Plus, BB is irrelevant. There's no "point" to it. It's pure entertainment. It's more fun that others. But fun is much less important than coherence and strong writing. There's a hierarchy.
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Your hierarchy is blatantly subjective and so full of value judgements I don't know how you can possibly think it's anything like an objective scale.
 
Those last 5 minutes. I was expecting some kind of cartel hit on the whole family, leaving Walt as the sole survivor. Holy shit. But what we got made more sense and is probably gonna be for the better :P
 
Oxigen_Waste said:
In other words, you completely missed the point if you were looking for/expecting results or conclusions.

edit - lol looks like others have said the same to you. Over and over and over and over.
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I understood that point, and I realized it far before the end, but it's just quite a bore and letdown in some ways.

They could've had the show go on for several seasons after, or cut it short a season or two, and the end result would've been the exact same. It's not really an 'experience' type of show, more like a slow ride.

I don't really regret watching it all, but it's definitely overrated in terms of ranking it over some other shows, imo.

SamVimes said:
That's the point. What exactly were you expecting? The war on drugs to end? The good guys winning?
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I wasn't expecting a 'just' resolution, i.e. good guys or bad guys to "win", but I was expecting some sort of decent resolution at the least. Like I said above, it could've went on forever like a sitcom at that point. No obligations.
 
Something I posted in the latest LTTP thread from exactly one week ago:

Fun Fact (Post Counts for Season threads):
S1: 298
S2: 1060
S3: 4603
S4: 18496
S5 Part 1: 13761 and almost 600,000 views

Mind you, S5P1 is still airing and not counting the inevitable speculation for the yearlong break for part 2. Its insane how this show has grown, and not only on GAF.
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Holy shit this got 150,000+ views and almost 4000 posts in a week. O_O
 
maharg said:
Your hierarchy is blatantly subjective and so full of value judgements I don't know how you can possibly think it's anything like an objective scale.
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Reality is more important than fiction. Therefore an underlying message that applies to our world is usually more important than pure fiction. That's what art is all about. Message is more important than entertainment.

In other words, there's a reason the 10 movies which are considered the best ever made are usually the same, and there's a reason why Citizen Kane and Bycicle Thieves are on that list and Star Wars isn't nor will ever be.
Even though Star Wars is awesome, the fact that it's completely irrelevant as anything other than entertainment will forever make it an inferior film to Hidden Fortress since they are both very good and have similar plots, but since one is highly relevant while the other is just pure unadulterated fun, that will always make the relevant one a more accomplished film, since films are an art form and art's essence is it's message.

I actually studied this kinda crap in classes (I studied cinema for 1 year, ended up quitting because this is what we learned instead of practical stuff).
 
Oxigen_Waste said:
Reality is more important than fiction. Therefore an underlying message that applies to our world is usually more important than pure fiction. That's what art is all about. Message is more important than entertainment.

In other words, there's a reason the 10 movies which are considered the best ever made are usually the same, and there's a reason why Citizen Kane and Bycicle Thieves are on that list and Star Wars isn't nor will ever be.
Even though Star Wars is awesome, the fact that it's completely irrelevant as anything other than entertainment will forever make it an inferior film to Hidden Fortress since they are both very good and have similar plots, but since one is highly relevant while the other is just pure unadulterated fun, that will always make the relevant one a more accomplished film, since films are an art form and art's essence is it's message.

I actually studied this kinda crap in classes (I studied cinema for 1 year, ended up quitting because this is what we learned instead of practical stuff).
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I'm well aware of the premise of your criticism and its roots in critical theory. I dispute its objectiveness. When you declare that reality is more important than anything else, it exposes the value judgement of your hierarchy and renders it subjective.

I would, in fact, dispute any concept of a completely objective criticism. But maybe I'm just post-modern like that.

And really the better comparison to make is Citizen Kane vs. Casablanca (rather than Star Wars), on which much has been written. Casablanca is the more entertaining, Citizen Kane the more revolutionary and the greater technical achievement.

Casablanca's direct impact on society as a whole is imo much greater (so many memes from this film people unknowingly parrot all the time), however, while Citizen Kane's influence is more indirect (being an influence almost exclusively on film-makers). It's not really surprising that film criticism/theory classes tend to focus more on the technical achievements than impact on society and the public discourse, because it's a very insider-y field. That doesn't make it right.
 
FantasticMrFoxdie said:
Something I posted in the latest LTTP thread from exactly one week ago:



Holy shit this got 150,000+ views and almost 4000 posts in a week. O_O
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It's really cool to see how GAF grows every year.

The football thread in 2008/09 had like, a page (50ppp) of talk about one match. These days, you get almost 50 posts just for A GOAL scored.
 
Sentry said:
The Wire is grossly overrated, honestly. It's great for its realism but beyond that, it has a great sense of indirection. Even after it's all over, you're basically back where you started. No real 'results' or 'conclusion'.
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I hope this is a joke post.
 
faceless007 said:
As opposed to what? Be some high-falutin auteur who refuses to give interviews? I'm at a loss as to how being pragmatic makes you lose respect for him.
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I firmly believe that an artist who explains and talks too much about his work diminishes it, simple as that. I also don't get anything out of hearing/reading about all the things they could possibly do with the characters or what they have and haven't decided on. Again, I find that it diminishes the work, particularly because I consider this to be an unfinished product until the very last episode of the very last season. You know, if you have to do it, at least wait till it's all over. I definitely am very much interested in the technical aspects of the creation and in background information about the production etc. And yeah, I'd rather Gilligan were confident about his work speaking for itself and he'd expect the audience to trust that he and his team know what they're doing and that their plans, however ambiguous and in whatever stage they may be, needn't be discussed, no matter how vaguely.
 
Sentry said:
I wasn't expecting a 'just' resolution, i.e. good guys or bad guys to "win", but I was expecting some sort of decent resolution at the least. Like I said above, it could've went on forever like a sitcom at that point. No obligations.
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Your point? Is a sitcom by default disqualified from the "top tier" of TV shows (if we must keep using these tiers)? Because I'd say Seinfeld is very much up there, and it is one of those lowly sitcoms.
 
- 'Breaking Bad' finale ratings way up from last year
EW.com said:
Breaking Bad‘s midseason finale Sunday night managed to deliver big gains on last year.

The cliffhanger delivered 2.8 million viewers, up 47 percent from season four’s explosive closer. Overall, the AMC series has averaged 56 percent more viewers for this summer’s eight episodes than the first half of last year’s (longer) season. The final eight episodes will air in summer, 2013.

To followers of Breaking Bad‘s ratings, this growth should come as no surprise. The series — partly because it started so modestly, but mostly because of its awesomeness — has managed the highly unusual feat of growing an audience for a heavily serialized show every year for five seasons. “Congratulations to everyone involved in Sunday’s great success and for delivering episode after episode of television that is nothing short of remarkable,” said Charlie Collier, AMC’s president. “Breaking Bad began 5 years ago with a pilot that was like nothing we had ever seen on television. That Breaking Bad continues to deliver at such a remarkable level creatively, now over 50 episodes later, is a rare accomplishment that begins with Vince Gilligan and the torch is carried by every member of the team on both sides of the camera. We can’t wait to share the final eight episodes with our audience.”
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EDIT:
- Full AMC press release over on TVbtN
 
maharg said:
I'm well aware of the premise of your criticism and its roots in critical theory. I dispute its objectiveness. When you declare that reality is more important than anything else, it exposes the value judgement of your hierarchy and renders it subjective.

I would, in fact, dispute any concept of a completely objective criticism. But maybe I'm just post-modern like that.

And really the better comparison to make is Citizen Kane vs. Casablanca (rather than Star Wars), on which much has been written. Casablanca is the more entertaining, Citizen Kane the more revolutionary and the greater technical achievement.

Casablanca's direct impact on society as a whole is imo much greater (so many memes from this film people unknowingly parrot all the time), however, while Citizen Kane's influence is more indirect (being an influence almost exclusively on film-makers). It's not really surprising that film criticism/theory classes tend to focus more on the technical achievements than impact on society and the public discourse, because it's a very insider-y field. That doesn't make it right.
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I never claimed reality (did you think I meant realism, here?) was more important than anything else. I claimed reality is more important than fiction. Which it is, nothing subjective about that. Art that relates to reality through it's message is therefore always more accomplished than art that doesn't. That's all I'm saying. It's also not my hierarchy. It's simply the way things are done within the medium. Don't really know if you can tell by my other posts, but my favs aren't the ones who are better.

I'm with you, basically, the concept of a completely objective criticism being applied to highly subjective works is nonsensical, but hey, it's what the system has been perpetuating for decades and decades and it's essentially the only real measure tool you can use since subjectivity would render all rankings useless and therefore leaving you aimless. I think the "objective model" is usefull to find new stuff and to point you in the right direction, but once you know your way around you should just ditch it completely and just go with the flow. But that system works wonders as a guideline, even if it ends up failing completely on a personal level, it partially resonates with most of the population, which is the basically the best you can hope for, considering.
Not to mention that a subjective criticism would never work as it would always be that one person's view of things, and not an impartial and somewhat detached look at it.

As for Casablanca, that comparison is fair but would make no sense since Casablanca has a message and heavy political outlines hiding beneath it's shell (the whole Marsellaise scene serves as a perfect example of that, I assume you know in 1942 the war was still going on, this scene was the film's crowning achievement, and the song essentially became an ever bigger symbol because of the exposure Casablanca provided it with) and therefore doesn't fit the mold of "pure fiction" I was talking about when I mentioned Star Wars.
 
Socreges said:
The Wire is better than everything.
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I think this probably true as well, but David Simon's post-Wire stuff thankfully leaves out the larger-than-life characters like Brother Mouzone.

My Ep9 prediction: 3 montages between commercial breaks for the 9 months in-between now and the Denny's scene. Make it happen Vince Gilligan. And use more Danger Mouse and El-P, please.
 
The first episode will show more of the flash forward scene. Then after the opening credits it will say "7 months earlier". Then the next episode will be "6 months earlier". Each time showing a little more of the flash forward.

Or you know...that doesn't happen at all and they just continue where they left off and build to that moment where he chooses to run. THEN it will say "____ months later" and continue at the diner.
 
blahblah...blah said:
26211625.jpg


Seriously, guys, shouldn't we just consider ourselves lucky that a medium of entertainment exists which has provided us with dozens of shows which could all be realistically considered to be 'top tier'? Whether you prefer gritty realism, cartoonish escapades, high-octane action, in-depth character studies, period pieces, or a little bit of each, television has you covered. Some people will consider this show as one of the all-time greats (myself included), but we would be foolish to assert that other shows were not equally good.
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A good post.

Top-tier television series:
Archer
Columbo
Star Trek: TNG
Degrassi Junior / High
Red Dwarf


Top-tier television serials:
Breaking Bad
Peep Show
Six Feet Under


God-tier television everything:
Beverly Hills 90210
 
-Pyromaniac- said:
The first episode will show more of the flash forward scene. Then after the opening credits it will say "7 months earlier". Then the next episode will be "6 months earlier". Each time showing a little more of the flash forward.

Or you know...that doesn't happen at all and they just continue where they left off and build to that moment where he chooses to run. THEN it will say "____ months later" and continue at the diner.
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Each episode takes place roughly one month after the last. Nice.
 
beastmode said:
I thought he was just an even more ridiculous, NOI version of Omar? (Who actually is based on a real person.)
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both Omar and Mouzone were cobbled together from attributes of multiple different people. Actually I think that's the case for all of the characters on the show, for the most part
 
blainethemono said:
both Omar and Mouzone were cobbled together from attributes of multiple different people. Actually I think that's the case for all of the characters on the show, for the most part
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Right, I don't doubt that. But everyone universally finds him a sore-thumb for some reason. It may just be the actor or his dialogue. I don't know. No characters of the sort in Gen Kill or Treme. Also, just found out he's still going to make his assassination of Abe Lincoln show. Fuck yeah.
 
jarosh said:
Your point? Is a sitcom by default disqualified from the "top tier" of TV shows (if we must keep using these tiers)? Because I'd say Seinfeld is very much up there, and it is one of those lowly sitcoms.
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I'm not allowed to have an opinion? Note that you're comparing Seinfeld to The Wire. Nothing wrong with a sitcom, but I personally don't enjoy that open-endedness narrative to a heavy, serious, dramatic TV Show.

Comparing Breaking Bad to The Wire just feels disingenuous to both series, for me. I can certainly get why The Wire can be seen as 'top tier', but to me, BB has been a much more enjoyable ride so far.
 
One of the most amazing things about this show is the unleashing of Bryan Cranston. I'm looking forward to future oscar nominations in his future projects.

Watching hollywood blockbusters and some of their "lead actors" can be embarrasing after watching Breaking Bad.
 
Hank having to find out on the shitter says a lot about his character.

I only wished it was more grandiose, like a sting operation and Hank sees Walt or something.

Also, The wire is fantastic tv, sadly it only lasted 4 seasons.
 
Einchy said:
Saw this on Reddit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDFAYRtrYuk

So good.
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Yeah, it showed up here back in February. We also talked about it a couple pages back.

Dany M said:
Hank having to find out on the shitter says a lot about his character.

I only wished it was more grandiose, like a sting operation and Hank sees Walt or something.
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And of course we've talked about this, but I thought it was better that he just found out by coincidence rather than by seeing Walt on a video tape or something. When you're watching a shot of Hank in his office poring over evidence, the thought of Walt being in there is in the forefront of your mind.

To that end, they set up the scene spectacularly. Our minds were so preoccupied with other things - will Holly fall in the pool? What about the test results? Are they really going to end on a sort-of happy note? And although I initially disliked how we never saw the inscription in the book in a past episode, it ultimately made the revelation more impactful due to the surprise.
 
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