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[acheron_xl]

You're going to last here long if you call all homebrew people pirates just because you "feel" it's not far from the truth. That's cute.

You're right. I'm sure the horde of people in the thread that want to play emulators on Vita dumped all the ROMs themselves.

 

[crinale]

I'm not responsible for preserving Sony's business model. I'll do anything with the hardware I own that I damn well please. It's Sony's job to court my business, not the other way around.

All I'm saying is Sony (or any other console vendor) would never going to continue their current business model if it never makes profit for good. Cracking the hardware is really cracking the business model of console vendors. I personally see nothing wrong with it but be prepared to see them either raising console prices at next gen, or just bailing out from this market.

 

[DiscoJer]

Seriously. Whether or not they've designed the hardware to be profitable from day one is their concern. I don't know why some people swear they are doing us a favor by allowing us the ability to buy their products.

Because it's what makes hardware so cheap.

The Vita has hardware that is probably comparable to the iPad4 (or maybe5), yet it's being sold at $250, not $500.

Unless you want to say goodbye to the model where hardware sales are subsidized by software sales, and buy gaming devices with huge markups. Because that's what we're going to get.

Well, to be honest, what we're going to get is Sony exiting the dedicated handheld market, leaving only nintendo, which won't use that model, but lower powered hardware it can sell for a profit at a low price.

Enjoy the future. But hey, you can play all the old console games you want on them, who needs new games?

 

[crinale]

Because it's what makes hardware so cheap.

The Vita has hardware that is probably comparable to the iPad4 (or maybe5), yet it's being sold at $250, not $500.

Unless you want to say goodbye to the model where hardware sales are subsidized by software sales, and buy gaming devices with huge markups. Because that's what we're going to get.

Well, to be honest, what we're going to get is Sony exiting the dedicated handheld market, leaving only nintendo, which won't use that model, but lower powered hardware it can sell for a profit at a low price.

Enjoy the future.

This is the same future I foresee also. But hey if this is the choice of consumers then I think it may be inevitable.

 

[Conflict NZ]

You're right. I'm sure the horde of people in the thread that want to play emulators on Vita dumped all the ROMs themselves.

Accusing people using homebrew of piracy is bannable. I would watch what you post.

 

[Stephen Colbert]

I supported the Vita by buying it at launch and buying every good worthwhile game that actually releases on the system.

Beyond that, I plan to hack the hell out of it and run lots of homebrew and emulators on it to get additional bang for my buck.

If Sony wants to prevent me from continuing to buy their games just because I want to run homebrew, that's their problem, not mine. They're the ones that are out a customer.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Because it's what makes hardware so cheap.

The Vita has hardware that is probably comparable to the iPad4 (or maybe5), yet it's being sold at $250, not $500.

Unless you want to say goodbye to the model where hardware sales are subsidized by software sales, and buy gaming devices with huge markups. Because that's what we're going to get.

Well, to be honest, what we're going to get is Sony exiting the dedicated handheld market, leaving only nintendo, which won't use that model, but lower powered hardware it can sell for a profit at a low price.

Enjoy the future. But hey, you can play all the old console games you want on them, who needs new games?

Go into any thread and you'll find a multitude of posters stating over and over again how the Vita isn't sold at a loss.

 

[crinale]

Go into any thread and you'll find a multitude of posters stating over and over again how the Vita isn't sold at a loss.

It isn't sold as a loss for building the device but it does not include the development cost. The development cost would never be recovered unless they get margin from software sales. Sony has already admitted that.

Now it is SONY that made choice to sell Vita at current price so it's their own fault that they could not foresee people would eventually go homebrew and never recover the development cost they have spend. I think they will learn the lesson this time

 

[Conflict NZ]

The Vita has hardware that is probably comparable to the iPad4 (or maybe5), yet it's being sold at $250, not $500.

This is absolutely not the case. The Vita is pretty much on par with a Samsung Galaxy S3.

 

[Enron]

We had a mod come into this thread and warn everybody, and then 1 page later it's business as usual as if he were never here.

 

[Maedhros]

Go into any thread and you'll find a multitude of posters stating over and over again how the Vita isn't sold at a loss.

Of course it is. The Vita price isn't just calculated with the pieces sold apart...

 

[Huw_Dawson]

Sweet, maybe a couple of years from now it'll be worth buying over a jailbroken PSP.

 

[test_account]

I havnt followed this thread that closely lately, so this might be old news, but this seems to be the latest update:

"Progress update, everything compiles now, but I have yet "tested" it on a Vita. The main problem right now is that the base address 0x81000000 is read only by the game that's loaded. If someone knows how to free that memory or set it to be writeable, contact me."

http://temp.wololo.net/talk/viewtopic.php?t=13841&p=162670

 

[Cyberquake]

I want to avoid calling you out specifically, but proclamations such as this need to disappear. I quoted you because you're not the first and certainly not the last to spout such nonsense.

The PSP died in the west because it had a lack of compelling software. Ever wonder why people create those "Japanese gaming is dead" threads but conveniently ignore Nintendo? It's because Nintendo is an anomaly - their games are universally loved and bought and played by many people that crosses borders and cultures. Their games are as Japanese as Italian cuisine is.

The PSP is great. I love mine. I use it to play several RPGs and Ridge Racer when I find the time. The truth of the matter is that a large percentage of gamers in the west do not care about those products anymore. That is why the PSP died. Not hacks and not piracy. If that boring and useless statement meant anything then why the hell was the Playstation 1 & 2 and DS so popular? I can assure you that if a randomly chosen 10 gamers within a neighbourhood had those systems, at least half of them used pirated games. Even the Xbox was stupidly popular "in the west" yet there are tonnes of places detailing how to get homebrew running on the Xbox.


At the moment though if a company pumps out a handheld and if it doesn't have Pokemon or Mario Kart or New Super Mario Bros or even Animal Crossing then it's going to face a struggle up to the summit of Mt Everest.

You have a point there. But the PSP is ridiculously easy to "jailbreak", you can do it free of charge, it's very easy to setup a CFW. For the PS1 and most of the time for PS2 also, you had to buy a chip and either install it yourself, or pay someone to do it. Of course recently PS2 had Swapmagic and stuff like MCFreeboot which also enabled an easy softmodding, but that appeared quite late in the system's lifespan.

But yes, I agree with you that piracy wasn't the thing that killed PSP in the west. Over here in Europe you can still find a crapload of good games for 10€ that still sell quite well for a dead platform, but, due to the whole easiness to crack the PSP I believe the piracy is another considerable factor, but not the determinant for the reasons you described.

 

[see5harp]

Because it's what makes hardware so cheap.

The Vita has hardware that is probably comparable to the iPad4 (or maybe5), yet it's being sold at $250, not $500.

Unless you want to say goodbye to the model where hardware sales are subsidized by software sales, and buy gaming devices with huge markups. Because that's what we're going to get.

Well, to be honest, what we're going to get is Sony exiting the dedicated handheld market, leaving only nintendo, which won't use that model, but lower powered hardware it can sell for a profit at a low price.

Enjoy the future. But hey, you can play all the old console games you want on them, who needs new games?

I didn't even say I care about homebrew or emulators. You sounding really silly right now with your iPad 4 or 5, nintendo only sells weak hardware for profit stuff.

 

[Seik]

You're right. I'm sure the horde of people in the thread that want to play emulators on Vita dumped all the ROMs themselves.

Hey you. The sarcastic man.

Just so you know, I rip my own stuff. Its easy of access now, so get your shit straight before calling out people here. ¬¬

 

[LiquidMetal14]

If things get to the point in which PSN access will be iffy then I may consider getting another Vita for this kind of stuff. Losing PSN access isn't worth any of this hassle.

 

[acheron_xl]

Hey you. The sarcastic man.

Just so you know, I rip my own stuff. Its easy of access now, so get your shit straight before calling out people here. ¬¬

And I'm sure you're not the only one on GAF who does, either. However, I am willing to bet you're in the minority.

I'm rather libertarian in my view of things like this. If you bought it, you should have the right to do whatever you want with it. From just playing FFVI on it, I can see how awesome it would be as an emulation platform. But the Vita is already in a precarious enough position that I personally don't want Sony and potential third parties to be any more scared off from committing resources to it than they already are.

 

[Jmanunknown]

If things get to the point in which PSN access will be iffy then I may consider getting another Vita for this kind of stuff. Losing PSN access isn't worth any of this hassle.

Thats gonna be the first thing Sony locks down. Look at the PS3 as an example people can use homebrew all they want but don't have psn access.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

If things get to the point in which PSN access will be iffy then I may consider getting another Vita for this kind of stuff. Losing PSN access isn't worth any of this hassle.

Losing PSN access is huge on PS3 but Vita not so much. Shoot, some Vita games even sign out out of PSN on their own anyway.

 

[Lucis]

Wow, so much comment with something that's really not that significant.

Assume VITA still uses some standard ARM processor, breaching the USR mode (under normal world I'd assume) really means nothing.

There's no way they can go back to SVC/SYS mode and take control of that. Even if they do, and if Sony was smart enough to put the real security behind TrustZone, which has another layer of Secure World modes, there are many layers to crack.

And if abstraction between the layer is done well, most of the exploitable/3rd party code should be in the lowest priv mode.

And seriously, both sides are a bit delusional about the argument here.

Are all home brewers pirates? Of course not. Should people be able to do whatever they want with their system? Why not?

Does cracking the system for homebrew also crack the system that increase piracy? Of course! Do not believe you can run all the homebrew and emulator with this layer open, running hello world does not equate to running SNES emulator.

Does piracy affect sales of software? Does it actually throw dev to not want to develop for the platform? Who really knows for sure? Maybe?

But overall, this is insignificant news really.

 

[DiscoJer]

I didn't even say I care about homebrew or emulators. You sounding really silly right now with your iPad 4 or 5, nintendo only sells weak hardware for profit stuff.

Silly or not, the current business model Sony & MS have used is to sell advanced hardware below cost, with the idea of making it up on software sales.

The Vita is an example of this, using a SGX543MP4 as its GPU, which I believe is better than the latest iPad has, which costs twice as much as the Vita.

Even if it's the same, again, Sony is selling it for half the cost of an iPad. They're not doing it just to people can play emulated games on the cheap, they want to make their money back.

 

[TheBrain76]

No kidding.

"Such and such homebrew is overrated, you shouldn't like it"
"Why do you need X, Y, Z for? There's no need. What are you, weird?"
"Use the Vita as it was intended by THE Sony, and remember to kiss it before going to bed every night"

Please shut it.

Yeah or my favorite:
"I paid $250 for this damn thing and I get a little fucking salty when people start jumping for joy at the prospect of something that could turn it into another PSP."

I'm not saying everyone is a pirate, I'm just saying that piracy is what the MAJORITY of this stuff leads to. I'm all for people being able to do cool shit on the system, but the amount of folks who will only use legit homebrew is minuscule.

So, no I won't "shut it" thanks.

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

And I'm sure you're not the only one on GAF who does, either. However, I am willing to bet you're in the minority.

I'm rather libertarian in my view of things like this. If you bought it, you should have the right to do whatever you want with it. From just playing FFVI on it, I can see how awesome it would be as an emulation platform. But the Vita is already in a precarious enough position that I personally don't want Sony and potential third parties to be any more scared off from committing resources to it than they already are.

What does this post have to do with calling everyone pirates? Somehow you can hope it's not hacked and scare away 3rd parties as you claim AND not call everyone a dirty pirate who wants homebrew. Who would have thought, but you still can't understand it. And people downloading games they own aren't illegal in all countries, but speak from ignorance and call people names instead.

 

[see5harp]

Silly or not, the current business model Sony & MS have used is to sell advanced hardware below cost, with the idea of making it up on software sales.

The Vita is an example of this, using a SGX543MP4 as its GPU, which I believe is better than the latest iPad has, which costs twice as much as the Vita.

Even if it's the same, again, Sony is selling it for half the cost of an iPad. They're not doing it just to people can play emulated games on the cheap, they want to make their money back.

I think the primary reason your line of thinking is flawed is that you assume Sony is selling it on the cheap in order to give something to the consumer. They are doing it because they cannot sell it for more. Apple charges what they charge for the screen, the huge media app library, and most importantly because people will pay. If all I bought for $500 was a mobile graphics card I'd be pretty upset.

 

[injurai]

If things get to the point in which PSN access will be iffy then I may consider getting another Vita for this kind of stuff. Losing PSN access isn't worth any of this hassle.

It would be cool if they made a separate safe boot mode, and a homebrew boot mode.

 

[kairiceres]

I think the primary reason your line of thinking is flawed is that you assume Sony is selling it on the cheap in order to give something to the consumer. They are doing it because they cannot sell it for more. Apple charges what they charge for the screen, the huge media app library, and most importantly because people will pay. If all I bought for $500 was a mobile graphics card I'd be pretty upset.

Even with that assumption, Sony did not make the Vita with the primary function of being an emulation device in mind. They want to push it with their software.

 

[Takamura-San]

It would be cool if they made a separate safe boot mode, and a homebrew boot mode.

Why would they do that?

 

[see5harp]

Even with that assumption, Sony did not make the Vita with the primary function of being an emulation device in mind. They want to push it with their software.

Sure and I think it's well within their rights to try and stop the floodgate from opening. I'm not screaming bloody murder at the guys trying to break in though.

 

[eznark]

Awesome, I can hopefully ditch my PSP soon!

 

[sega4ever]

i can't wait to turn the vita into the nomad 2.0

 

[injurai]

Why would they do that?

So Sony can't detected hacked systems so your PSN account doesn't get jeopardized.

 

[Paladin CL]

Awesome news!

 

[Maedhros]

So Sony can't detected hacked systems so your PSN account doesn't get jeopardized.

Buy two Vitas.

 

[injurai]

Buy two Vitas.

you missed the point but ok...

 

[Seik]

I think he was referring to the fact that the PSP, while being hacked, can still have access to PSN when its not in homebrew mode.

This would be the best scenario for the Vita actually.

 

[Freshmaker]

B-b-b-but proprietary cards!

Now people will have more incentive to purchase the larger sized cards.

 

[OldJadedGamer]

Now people will have more incentive to purchase the larger sized cards.

Who says an adapter doesn't come out allowing you to use SD cards for 1/8th the price?

 

[Fafalada]

it makes things unnecessarily convoluted.

Oh come on now. People jump through extraordinary amount of hoops to write stuff on hacked hw - convenience being an excuse that attracts or keeps coders away is blatantly false.

 

[To Far Away Times]

Geez, this thread is a graveyard.

 

[AdawgDaFAB]

Who says an adapter doesn't come out allowing you to use SD cards for 1/8th the price?

I would love for this to be the case (I use 2 microSDs for my PSP) but I'm not sure they could create an adaptor small enough. The Vita's proprietary memory cards are 15mm x 13mm and microSDs are 15mm x 11mm.

 

[pharmboy044]

Losing PSN access is huge on PS3 but Vita not so much. Shoot, some Vita games even sign out out of PSN on their own anyway.

They've stopped doing that. Ragnarok Odyssey actually was patched to fix this issue and had 4 player online coop added.
I would say PSN access is essential for a Vita owner.

 

[test_account]

Yep, it is not possible to make a MicroSD adapter unless it is sticking outisde the Vita.

 

[therapist]

Good news for gamers , bad news for sony.

Personally i hope its homebrew only - but someone will make it useable with isos and then its all downhill from there.

Devs will find it even less appealing if isos are playable , if thats possible

 

[DangerousDave]

Losing PSN access is huge on PS3 but Vita not so much. Shoot, some Vita games even sign out out of PSN on their own anyway.

Losing PSN access means, for example, losing a lot of PSN only games. And extra features in a lot of games. Also, several free aps, trophies, etc.

PSN is not simply multiplayer.

It will be interesting to see how people remain interested in the Vita scene if there isn't any way (like the hacker said) to pirate the console with that hack.

 

[Varth]

Good news for gamers , bad news for sony.

Personally i hope its homebrew only - but someone will make it useable with isos and then its all downhill from there.

Devs will find it even less appealing if isos are playable , if thats possible

In a situation like this, the best scenario for everyone would be for Sony to let this go unnoticed like it wasn't fixable. Let the platform gather hardware sales, make people reason in terms of "one for homebrew, one for psn access", maybe, let devs take interest in the thing, then BAM! pull the carpet under the hack with a security update.

Sci-fi stuff, but the situation is so dire that even that may make sense ^^

 

[DangerousDave]

Good news for gamers , bad news for sony.

Personally i hope its homebrew only - but someone will make it useable with isos and then its all downhill from there.

Devs will find it even less appealing if isos are playable , if thats possible

I see a contradiction, here. Unless gamers prefer to have a fifth machine to play SNES emulators, instead of having devs making games on Vita.

 

[Seik]

I see a contradiction, here. Unless gamers prefer to have a fifth machine to play SNES emulators, instead of having devs making games on Vita.

Well, my Vita would be my third SNES machine, yes, but the only portable one!

OG SNES - PC, then Vita if it happens.

 

[shink]

Not sure how I feel about this. For homebrew only, I'd be fine with it, certainly are some benefits to CFW too but I can see it leading to cracking it wide open and the potential piracy.

I was actually seriously considering picking one up before but will probably hold off now as I don't feel too good about software support for the foreseeable future.

 

[LiquidMetal14]

I see a contradiction, here. Unless gamers prefer to have a fifth machine to play SNES emulators, instead of having devs making games on Vita.

And I don't disagree with the latter but the former would be neat. What I'm saying is that I want new Vita games more than some emulation of old HW that can be done on almost any modern HW. It's somewhat twisted to even say that getting a Vita for emulation is a primary reason for getting one. I think the lineup of games with PSP/PS1 added in is a lot and will only get better. That's why I would likely get a second unit to tinker with new apps and such.