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[flippymittens]

First I will start off with Holocaust deniers which particularly bother me. They claim that the Holocaust was some movie staged because "jews control the world" or something like that. Despite the overwhelming evidence and remains they deny the existence of the holocaust.

Second is the claim that the Jewish people control the world and the media... I do not find this to be the case because if it was true... Why are there so many famous individuals throughout history and famous individuals in modern times with anti-Jewish view points.

Third if Jewish people ran the world does that mean than there would not be anti-Jewish people in positions of power...
None of the major television news operations—Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, ABC News, CBS News, or NBC News—are currently headed by a Jewish executive


Next are the stereotypes of Jewish people which I do not feel I need to explain as why they are incorrect as they explain themselves (such as Jewish people having large noses when plenty of people who do not have large noses are Jewish and plenty who do like myself and I guess Triple H has a large nose are not Jewish.

"A 2007 survey by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) concluded that 15% of Americans hold antisemitic views..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism#United_States, I am not saying that Antisemitism is the most important form of discrimination so I would appreciate people not demeaning it by saying it is lesser than racism or sexism when I never claimed it was greater.

I also apologize to any person who may be uncomfortable with this discussion and I certainly do not mean to offend anyone.

My questions are, what is your experience with antisemitism, have you witnessed or experienced anti-Judaism?

 

[Salvadora]

If anyone is looking for an example.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=475669

 

[EightBitNate]

People deny the holocaust? WTF?

And I will say this much; there are groups treated far worse than Jewish people in America. Most of your problems aren't even big deals. Big noses? Really? You care?

 

[DonMigs85]

The Bestgore forums are full of antisemites and other racists.
Many of them also deny the moon landing.

 

[Spring-Loaded]

Of all types of irrational hate, I find this to be particularly fucking retarded.

 

[Broder Salsa]

Never really had any experience with it, jokes about Jewish stereotypes? Yeah but nothing really bad. Probably because there isn't really a lot of Jews here, Muslims is what all the xenophobes fears here at the moment, so they don't really have time to make up theories about how the holocaust was exaggerated.

The Bestgore forums are full of antisemites and other racists.
Many of them also deny the moon landing.

Hard to expect anything else from a site called bestgore. :lol

 

[OttomanScribe]

I once walked into a police station, wearing traditional Muslim clothing.

The officer at the desk looked me up and down and said 'are you a Jew?'.

Made me wonder if all the abuse I've copped over the years hasn't been Islamaphobia, but actually anti-semitism due to mistaken identity.

 

[brianmcdoogle]

Who was the poster who said the holocaust was "just an accident" or something?

 

[Deleted member 81567]

Unlock the Hot Jewish girls thread.

 

[flippymittens]

People deny the holocaust? WTF?

And I will say this much; there are groups treated far worse than Jewish people in America. Most of your problems aren't even big deals. Big noses? Really? You care?

I am not Jewish, I stated so in the post though I probably should not have rambled on and said it at the beginning it is my bad... Also the big noses stereotype is just that a stereotype. Yes really, I care about people being mistreated.

 

[Devolution]

Not really. But a lot of forms of racism given where I'm from were less obvious or kept at home. The worst I tended to hear was Jew as some sort of pejorative for "cheap."

 

[Escape Goat]

 

[SoccerGoaliePro]

Who was the poster who said the holocaust was "just an accident" or something?

 

[Eyemus Lutt]

Everything you said is spot on and should not be tolerated, but people should also not confuse being anti Israel with anti-antisemitism.
Too many times people are called antisemitic when they disagree with the Israeli government and not the people directly.

 

[ghst]

odd thread. nobody likes a bigot, you'd do well to separate irrational racial phobia with people's condemnation of certain partisan measures taken by the israeli state.

 

[rando14]

I am not Jewish, I stated so in the post though I probably should not have rambled on and said it at the beginning it is my bad... Also the big noses stereotype is just that a stereotype. Yes really, I care about people being mistreated.

That's fine, but why focus on just Jews, then? There are surely other groups in the US who experience much more discrimination.

 

[EightBitNate]

I am not Jewish, I stated so in the post though I probably should not have rambled on and said it at the beginning it is my bad... Also the big noses stereotype is just that a stereotype. Yes really, I care about people being mistreated.

I'm just questioning why you care if people think all Jewish people have big noses. I wouldn't really call that mistreatment. Every group has stereotypes and they usually don't mean anything.

 

[SoccerGoaliePro]

Worst thing I saw was when I used to do produce deliveries to restaurants. One Mediterranean restaurant had a bin labeled "Jew Bin" that they would put their dirty aprons and shirts in that needed to be washed.

 

[Zeppelin]

First I will start off with Holocaust deniers which particularly bother me. They claim that the Holocaust was some movie staged because "jews control the world" or something like that. Despite the overwhelming evidence and remains they deny the existence of the holocaust.

To be fair, most holocaust deniers I've come into contact with are a bit more nuanced than that. Most of them seems to be on board with the fact that a lot of jews were sent to camps and that a lot of them died. Usually they just end up disputing how many etc. A lot of them could probably make a pretty convincing case, which is why it's dangerous to just write them off as complete lunatics that denies everything regarding the holocaust.

Second is the claim that the Jewish people control the world and the media... I do not find this to be the case because if it was true... Why are there so many famous individuals throughout history and famous individuals in modern times with anti-Semitic view points.

But that is true to some extent though, no? Jews are probably the most powerful minority on Earth. The question is if there's a conspiracy or if it has anything to do with them being Jews. I doubt it. Plain old nepotism more likely.

Edit: Here's an interesting take on the subject of anti-Semitism, which kind of makes you question the ADL: http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/defamation/

 

[squidyj]

Fourth people put too much weight into AIPAC, is there an Israeli lobby with influence? Yes, obviously but there is a Turkish lobby, Saudi Arabian lobby, etc. Lobbyists can not control anything directly but they can influence the political climate.
AIPAC gets a lot of flack for doing what many other special interest groups do and lobby influence for their cause.
Furthermore most Americans support Israel so it is not as if the politicians are being disconnected from the people in supporting Israel.

This is a bad argument. also lol at the simplistic naivete of 'support israel'

 

[EightBitNate]

The more I reread the thread the funnier it gets. OP is pretty brave, going out on a limb to defend something he isn't even a part of. I commend you.

 

[ConfusingJazz]

Fourth people put too much weight into AIPAC, is there an Israeli lobby with influence? Yes, obviously but there is a Turkish lobby, Saudi Arabian lobby, etc. Lobbyists can not control anything directly but they can influence the political climate.
AIPAC gets a lot of flack for doing what many other special interest groups do and lobby influence for their cause.
Furthermore most Americans support Israel so it is not as if the politicians are being disconnected from the people in supporting Israel.

Son, that's a bad argument.

A) Don't loop support for Israel in with antisemitism, that kinda shit just pisses me off.
B) AIPAC has a lot more influence on American politics then most foreign based lobbies.

 

[Devolution]

To be fair, most holocaust deniers I've come into contact with are a bit more nuanced than that. Most of them seems to be on board with the fact that a lot of jews were sent to camps and that a lot of them died. Usually they just end up disputing how many etc. A lot of them could probably make a pretty convincing case, which is why it's dangerous to just write them off as complete lunatics that denies everything regarding the holocaust.



But that is true to some extent though, no? Jews are probably the most powerful minority on Earth. The question is if there's a conspiracy or if it has anything to do with them being Jews. I doubt it. Plain old nepotism more likely.

 

[Zeppelin]

What's your point?

 

[SoccerGoaliePro]

 

[SteveWinwood]

Have you ever made a thread not about persecution of a group or feature?

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Have you ever made a thread not about persecution of a group or feature?

Doubtful..

 

[Rayis]

I've never really understood the prejudice some people have against jews, also, damn holocaust deniers

 

[Kusagari]

LV do you seriously just think about the persecution of various groups all day?

 

[The Big Rig]

To be fair, most holocaust deniers I've come into contact with are a bit more nuanced than that. Most of them seems to be on board with the fact that a lot of jews were sent to camps and that a lot of them died. Usually they just end up disputing how many etc. A lot of them could probably make a pretty convincing case, which is why it's dangerous to just write them off as complete lunatics that denies everything regarding the holocaust.

I'd love for Holocaust deniers to make their sophisticated, nuanced case. That nuance is based on faulty information and an inherent bias towards wanting to believe Jews exaggerated to gain sympathy.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

LV do you seriously just think about the persecution of various groups all day?

What of the plight of the Mogwai??

 

[OttomanScribe]

I think what he means to say is that to those uneducated in the history of the holocaust, their assertions can seem at least coherent, and thus gain purchase with those already inclined towards believing them.

His assertion that holocaust deniers believed that it was staged is not really correct, unfortunately they don't make such a crazy argument. They make vaguely less crazy, but similarly ridiculous arguments about Hitler's knowledge, numbers of killed and anomaly hunting, combined with selective primary source use.

The way that one combats such things is not with strawmen, it is through coherent and effective historiography.

 

[prwxv3]

If anyone was to see pants on head retarded and comical levels of Antisemitism (and racism) go to the first page of /pol/

 

[Zeppelin]

I think what he means to say is that to those uneducated in the history of the holocaust, their assertions can seem at least coherent, and thus gain purchase with those already inclined towards believing them.

His assertion that holocaust deniers believed that it was staged is not really correct, unfortunately they don't make such a crazy argument. They make vaguely less crazy, but similarly ridiculous arguments about Hitler's knowledge, numbers of killed and anomaly hunting, combined with selective primary source use.

The way that one combats such things is not with strawmen, it is through coherent and effective historiography.

Exactly. Thank you.

 

[EightBitNate]

 

[ghst]

LV do you seriously just think about the persecution of various groups all day?

i'm clutching my "young white male living in an affluent western metropolis" ticket with fervent anticipation.

 

[SoccerGoaliePro]

I'd love for Holocaust deniers to make their sophisticated, nuanced case. That nuance is based on faulty information and an inherent bias towards wanting to believe Jews exaggerated to gain sympathy.

Their evidence comes from taking soil samples near the camps in our current day and age. Their evidence is based entirely on that. Using that kind of evidence I can prove to the deniers that not one German soldier or civilian died during world war 2 if I really wanted too.

 

[maquiladora]

Is this the third LostVoyager -ism thread in a row?

 

[xbhaskarx]

Someone post the video clip from the Egyptian prank television show, we had a thread on it a few months ago...

Have you ever made a thread not about persecution of a group or feature?

Maybe he has to write a school paper on the subject and he's using GAF for help with research?

 

[SteveWinwood]

Is this the third LostVoyager -ism thread in a row?

I swear we have 5 or 6 total by now.

 

[Salvadora]

Someone post the video clip from the Egyptian prank television show, we had a thread on it a few months ago...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C80Jp6qb8II

 

[CorvoSol]

Have you ever made a thread not about persecution of a group or feature?

Next thread is about people who persecute people who persecute people.

 

[Devolution]

Next thread is about people who persecute people who persecute people.

Um they're called libruls.

 

[Slurpy2k20]

First I will start off with Holocaust deniers which particularly bother me. They claim that the Holocaust was some movie staged because "jews control the world" or something like that. Despite the overwhelming evidence and remains they deny the existence of the holocaust.

Second is the claim that the Jewish people control the world and the media... I do not find this to be the case because if it was true... Why are there so many famous individuals throughout history and famous individuals in modern times with anti-Semitic view points.

Third if Jewish people ran the world does that mean than there would not be antisemitic people in positions of power...
None of the major television news operations—Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, ABC News, CBS News, or NBC News—are currently headed by a Jewish executive

Fourth people put too much weight into AIPAC, is there an Israeli lobby with influence? Yes, obviously but there is a Turkish lobby, Saudi Arabian lobby, etc. Lobbyists can not control anything directly but they can influence the political climate.
AIPAC gets a lot of flack for doing what many other special interest groups do and lobby influence for their cause.
Furthermore most Americans support Israel so it is not as if the politicians are being disconnected from the people in supporting Israel.

Next are the stereotypes of Jewish people which I do not feel I need to explain as why they are incorrect as they explain themselves (such as Jewish people having large noses when plenty of people who do not have large noses are Jewish and plenty who do like myself and I guess Triple H has a large nose are not Jewish.

"A 2007 survey by the Anti-Defamation League (ADL) concluded that 15% of Americans hold antisemitic views..." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism#United_States, I am not saying that Antisemitism is the most important form of discrimination so I would appreciate people not demeaning it by saying it is lesser than racism or sexism when I never claimed it was greater.

I also apologize to any person who may be uncomfortable with this discussion and I certainly do not mean to offend anyone.

My questions are, what is your experience with antisemitism, have you witnessed or experienced antisemitism?

You know what a bigger issue that needs to be fixed is? Bludgeoning all criticism of Israel with the accusation of anti-semitism, and using it as a massive hammer to destroy all attempts at rational discussion and debate. Honestly, antisemtism does exist, but to a pretty small degree, and alot of it is spurred directly by actions of the Israeli gvt and it's continuous occupation, human rights abuses, and lack of respect for international law, as well as obsessively beating the war drums and threatening countries left and right. Not to mention continuously trying to pressure the US to drag itself into a war. I think the vast majority of 'antisemitism' is actually legitimate critisism towards the Israeli government, which of course is defined as antisemitism. Again, such a thing exists, but it's sensationalized and used as a political tool to silence.

 

[Gordon Shumway]

Mad Izm

 

[Aadil]

All racial problems need to be fixed.
I just get confused at the terminology of anti-semitism. Most jewish people today arent actually semitic, but of european heritage. Semites today are those with ancestory in Israel and Arabs.

I dont think we can deny the holocaust although I did watch an interesting documentary called Mr Death (The story of Fred Leuchter) I recommend it to anybody interested in the topic.

We cant also call people anti semitic if they have an issue with any sort of lobbying going on or control over wealth, thats just anti imperialism, pointing the finger at a specific race or sect , is however, wrong.

So is all forms of stereotyping, but I really didn't know there was so much against Jewish people these days. I thought it was more focused on shoe bombers.

 

[SoccerGoaliePro]

You know what a bigger issue that needs to be fixed is? Bludgeoning all criticism of Israel with the accusation of anti-semitism, and using it as a massive hammer to destroy all attempts at rational discussion and debate. Honestly, antisemtism does exist, but to a pretty small degree, and alot of it is spurred directly by actions of the Israeli gvt and it's continuous occupation, human rights abuses, and lack of respect for international law, as well as obsessively beating the war drums and threatening countries left and right. Not to mention continuously trying to pressure the US to drag itself into a war. I think the vast majority of 'antisemitism' is actually legitimate critisism towards the Israeli government, which of course is defined as antisemitism. Again, such a thing exists, but it's sensationalized and used as a political tool to silence.

I think they have a point when it comes to people having double standards when it comes to Israel.

 

[flippymittens]

Everything you said is spot on and should not be tolerated, but people should also not confuse being anti Israel with anti-antisemitism.
Too many times people are called antisemitic when they disagree with the Israeli government and not the people directly.

I am not saying no criticism of Israel should occur but Israel is often criticized for actions that plenty of other countries partake and are condemned for any action.

That's fine, but why focus on just Jews, then? There are surely other groups in the US who experience much more discrimination.

Yes but there are plenty of other threads for other groups. Plus a broad thread on bigotry in general would not be able to specifically debunk all the claims of bigotry towards group in a specialized manner.

I'm just questioning why you care if people think all Jewish people have big noses. I wouldn't really call that mistreatment. Every group has stereotypes and they usually don't mean anything.

Because it is an unfair demeaning stereotype. Stereotypes are unfair and should be combated in my view.

To be fair, most holocaust deniers I've come into contact with are a bit more nuanced than that. Most of them seems to be on board with the fact that a lot of jews were sent to camps and that a lot of them died. Usually they just end up disputing how many etc. A lot of them could probably make a pretty convincing case, which is why it's dangerous to just write them off as complete lunatics that denies everything regarding the holocaust.



But that is true to some extent though, no? Jews are probably the most powerful minority on Earth. The question is if there's a conspiracy or if it has anything to do with them being Jews. I doubt it. Plain old nepotism more likely.

Well first, I agree those deniers more dangerous I guess. The only reason the case could be somewhat convincing is the sheer number of the victims... In my view it is a shady way to diminish the Holocaust by arguing down a number that would be hard to explain to people with a list of pictures of each victim. I am pretty sure the historians and those who counted the bodies knew more than someone like the Iranian president who diminishes the numbers.

Secondly the Jewish people have been persecuted throughout history. If the Jewish people were so powerful than there would not exist antisemitic people in positions of power.

This is a bad argument. also lol at the simplistic naivete of 'support israel'

How is that a bad arguement, AIPAC is a special interest group... They gain influence like other special interest groups (which many other countries have).

The more I reread the thread the funnier it gets. OP is pretty brave, going out on a limb to defend something he isn't even a part of. I commend you.

I do not see why antisemitism is funny in anyway. I do not consider myself really that brave but thank you. I do not feel belonging to a group is necessary in combating bigotry towards a group.

Son, that's a bad argument.

A) Don't loop support for Israel in with antisemitism, that kinda shit just pisses me off.
B) AIPAC has a lot more influence on American politics then most foreign based lobbies.

I am not saying all criticism of Israel is antisemitic but certainly some criticism and singling out of Israel is in my view antisemitic.
B) They gain more influenced because they are a relatively developed country that needs it, because the United States has such a strong military for protection (I would imagine being in that region), and all of that is legal. Many other countries that are wealthier than Israel do not necessarily need influence in our political system and others can not afford influence in our political system.
Finally the reason we are such an ally with Israel aside from influence from AIPAC is that most Americans are favorable/supportive of Israel.

I mean this is not an elaborate explanation and may not be correct but I find it to be right from what I have read.

 

[Yaboosh]

Antisemitism almost seems foreign to me. I have never really seen much anti-semitism personally.

 

[DTKT]

I think they have a point when it comes to people having double standards when it comes to Israel.

Shouldn't you compare Isreal and Palestine 50 or so years of bloody conflict?

I mean, they are both aweful thing, but reducing the actions of the state of Isreal to "killing seven terrorists in a boat" seems awfully convenient.