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COMICS! l OT l September in 3, 2, 1, Zero issues

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I thought DC was a sinking ship but New-52 was a good idea and done well.
Marvel's NOW doesn't seem as ambitious but we'll see how successful it is.
It's not the glory years of past, but both companies are doing just fine.
 
What I'll really have to agree is how good Hickman is on both Fantastic Four and FF. Spiderman is so good on the team that almost feels he has always been a part of it.

Meh, I been bitching a lot here lately, but when all is said and done and I am reading the books, I actually like most of the stuff. But yeah, I hope spiderman never leaves this team, I don't even mind that he is almost in more teams than Wolverine.
 
How rapey is it? I'll read a book with darker content but i tend to not want to own them.

It's more a book where cool and crazy stuff happens rather than a book deconstructing super heroes. People die, and character personalities have some substance to them, but it isn't Miracle Man or Watchmen.

Top 10 is about a police department in a city where everyone has super powers. As you would expect, a lot of insane stuff happens. At one point a drunken Godzilla with a beer gut stumbles into town drinking a "6-pack" of transport trucks full of beer.
 
I thought DC was a sinking ship but New-52 was a good idea and done well.
Marvel's NOW doesn't seem as ambitious but we'll see how successful it is.
It's not the glory years of past, but both companies are doing just fine.

Agreed. There are a lot of bad Marvel and DC comics, but it has always been that way. We tend to just forget the bad ones from long ago. There are still lots of good comics for each company. Hawkeye, Daredevil, WatXM, Batman, Aquaman and Batwoman, for example, are all quite good.
 
It's more a book where cool and crazy stuff happens rather than a book deconstructing super heroes. People die, and character personalities have some substance to them, but it isn't Miracle Man or Watchmen.

Top 10 is about a police department in a city where everyone has super powers. As you would expect, a lot of insane stuff happens. At one point a drunken Godzilla with a beer gut stumbles into town drinking a "6-pack" of transport trucks full of beer.

sounds fun, i think i'll get it.
 
I really hate AvX. None of the characters are acting like themselves, at all. The fights are afterthoughts and the motivation behind the entire thing is ridiculous.

This better have a hell of a payoff. Because it sort of fucking sucks.
 
How rapey is it? I'll read a book with darker content but i tend to not want to own them.

It is quite dark but it's not really rapey I wouldn't say. The main story is about a serial killer taking out prostitutes but it's about way more than that. Lots of nice family stuff, there's a god in a robot suit who talks, there's the son of Godzilla being a dick, there's mad scientists and flying cars and robot hip hop and a big blue grumpy cop. It's badass.
 
I really hate AvX. None of the characters are acting like themselves, at all. The fights are afterthoughts and the motivation behind the entire thing is ridiculous.

This better have a hell of a payoff. Because it sort of fucking sucks.
I don't see it that way. Which characters aren't acting like themselves? The Avengers have always acted in a self righteous way. Now they're doing it while dealing with something they don't know anything about, so it makes them look...off.

As for the phoenix 5, they are obviously not acting like themselves, but that's the whole point of the story, they're being overtaken. Who else....Logan? Logan has always done whatever he wanted, scrambling to figure out what the right thing to do is (and usually getting rebuffed at every turn).

IMO the hugest problem with AvX is that it just went on too long. 12 issues was pushing it for a story that could have been told in 6-8.
 
I don't see it that way. Which characters aren't acting like themselves? The Avengers have always acted in a self righteous way. Now they're doing it while dealing with something they don't know anything about, so it makes them look...off.

As for the phoenix 5, they are obviously not acting like themselves, but that's the whole point of the story, they're being overtaken. Who else....Logan? Logan has always done whatever he wanted, scrambling to figure out what the right thing to do is (and usually getting rebuffed at every turn).

IMO the hugest problem with AvX is that it just went on too long. 12 issues was pushing it for a story that could have been told in 6-8.

Capt America. "We're going to take this young woman, now. No talking. Fuck you. OMG you zapped me, WAR!"

Cyke. "Oh, shit, the Phoenix, destroyer of universes is coming. Oh, you know what? Maybe this time it will rebuild. Something. In some way. We should fight everybody, just in case."

Capt America (again) "Hey, Logan. Thanks for helping us out. Now, for no raisin, I'm going to get very angry at you and not allow you to help. What? You're mad? GTFO!"

So, basically just those 2. Especially Cyke and everything he's doing. Everything after the Phoenix is fine, as you say, that's the point.
 
Capt America. "We're going to take this young woman, now. No talking. Fuck you. OMG you zapped me, WAR!"

Cyke. "Oh, shit, the Phoenix, destroyer of universes is coming. Oh, you know what? Maybe this time it will rebuild. Something. In some way. We should fight everybody, just in case."

Capt America (again) "Hey, Logan. Thanks for helping us out. Now, for no raisin, I'm going to get very angry at you and not allow you to help. What? You're mad? GTFO!"

So, basically just those 2. Especially Cyke and everything he's doing. Everything after the Phoenix is fine, as you say, that's the point.

Why won't Captain America share his raisins? :(
 
New MEGAMAN COMIC out, Preview here:

http://www.comicbookresources.com/?page=preview&id=13560

For what it is (a kid-friendly adaptation of the NES 'story'), it's good.

XevoY.jpg


Wily was a jerk even 10+ years younger.
 
Capt America. "We're going to take this young woman, now. No talking. Fuck you. OMG you zapped me, WAR!"

Cyke. "Oh, shit, the Phoenix, destroyer of universes is coming. Oh, you know what? Maybe this time it will rebuild. Something. In some way. We should fight everybody, just in case."

Capt America (again) "Hey, Logan. Thanks for helping us out. Now, for no raisin, I'm going to get very angry at you and not allow you to help. What? You're mad? GTFO!"

So, basically just those 2. Especially Cyke and everything he's doing. Everything after the Phoenix is fine, as you say, that's the point.
Fine I can concede Cyke pre-phoenix, for the most part.

I still think Captain america isn't so bad, clearly a man out of his depth who clearly doesn't know what he should be doing. Or maybe I'm over-analyzing it and I can concede that as well.
 
Fine I can concede Cyke pre-phoenix, for the most part.

I still think Captain america isn't so bad, clearly a man out of his depth who clearly doesn't know what he should be doing. Or maybe I'm over-analyzing it and I can concede that as well.

I'm sure there is something to the ending that will make this all make sense. I hope...
 
I guess my problem with the concept of AvX is that it felt like everyone resorted to fighting each other too quickly. There wasn't much attempt at a peaceful resolution, which is odd, because despite whatever differences the two teams have, many of its individual members are friends. The Extinction Team could have sat down with a key team of Avengers and tried to talk about things instead of everyone just jumping to punching so quickly. Now maybe this didn't happen cause they were pressed for time, but shit. They had enough time to mobilize an attack on Utopia and global search for Hope. They could have sat down for a few days and exchanged words. Everyone still likely would have disagreed, and we'd still be where we are.

Still, I've liked the story well enough, so maybe this is nitpicky.
 
I agree with cyclops just being an idiot by thinking Hope (or anyone) could control the phoenix; but Captain America is acting like he always does in these kinds of cosmic crisis. His impulse is to grab leadership and tell people what to do. It's even in Marvel fashion that people doesn't always listen to him.

I don't even think he is over his head here as he obviously is, again, doing what he usually does in these situations and leaving the actual thinking to the specialists. Stuff always go this way to cap. Someone points him in a direction, he assembles a team and go thrusting that the brains of Marvel U are right (as long as they aren't trying to argue against something he would find unethical).

What I want to see unfolding is Iron Man cracking the code on the Scarlet Witch - Hope equation. It is a subplot a bit buried on all the punching and lasers, but the notion that there is an answer and that Tony Stark is going to find it geeks me out.
 
I agree with Bandit. Pablum might be a little harsh, but I do think superhero comics have evolved into being just action soap operas, heavy on the melodrama, crossovers and events. That's fine if you want to devote yourself to a universe and follow a soap opera, but I find it predictable, tedious, and easy to get sick of. There are several writers and books that do it extremely well. Some characters are very cool, but you pretty much know what to expect and it's safe and reliable action escapism if you don't mind the melodrama, or perhaps that's what you want in a comic.

I just don't understand fans who want nothing else and completely snub all other forms of comics. I think indie comics can be much more interesting, innovative and creative, and definately not as predictable. Yes, there is plenty of indie junk as well. A lot of the licensed comics are very predictable, but it's also easy to enjoy familiar characters without worrying about back history, continuity, or the need for detailed character development. Your going to get good and bad writing and art in every genre, but finding the really creative gold is very rewarding.

I've enjoyed indie a lot more than superhero because I think it can be much more thought provoking and innovative. I also prefer miniseries because they get to the point, tell the story, and end it without milking it. Too many ongoings have bad stories, stretched stories, filler issues, guest creators, and basically milk the title just because it's selling. Both superhero and indie can be guilty of this.

Nothing wrong with enjoying just superhero, but I prefer both and feel a lot of readers are missing out on some real quality work if they're not willing to branch out and try something that isn't within their safe and predictable comfort zone.

Or you could enjoy both.

Man, you guys need to go to Heroes Con. You don't see Jonathan Hickman gazing longingly at Eric Canete's table or the Loose Ends table, wishing they both respected comics in the same way. They all just want to and do make great comics. They don't see a difference. I don't get why anyone else does.
 
Or you could enjoy both.

Man, you guys need to go to Heroes Con. You don't see Jonathan Hickman gazing longingly at Eric Canete's table or the Loose Ends table, wishing they both respected comics in the same way. They all just want to and do make great comics. They don't see a difference. I don't get why anyone else does.

I know one or two of these dudes and they do see a difference. For some of those, superheroes is a job so they can have enough money/fame to do their own stuff. Some of these guys really love superheroes, but definetly not all of them.
 
Or you could enjoy both.

Man, you guys need to go to Heroes Con. You don't see Jonathan Hickman gazing longingly at Eric Canete's table or the Loose Ends table, wishing they both respected comics in the same way. They all just want to and do make great comics. They don't see a difference. I don't get why anyone else does.

Dude, seriously?

Name dropping two guys that work for Lamestream comics and are very vocal about how fucked up this industry is?

Eric Canete before Heroes Con even posted a blog update about commissions about being sick of drawing the same shit day in, day out, and if you wanted a commission from him you would need to be willing to let him run with it and give you a sketch that's in the spirit of the character, but isn't Steve Ditko's Spiderman for the billionth time:

As I drew a Poison Ivy, and a Batman, and a Deadpool, and a Thor, and a Captain America..et al, over and over again - I realized that, unlike before, I no longer had the connection to the images I was drawing. I didn't have the same voracious attitude that I used to have; to attack each character with as much creativity as possible to the point where I was practically drooling as I started them. What's worse was the fact that generous people were giving their hard earned monies to show their support of me and my work, and the best I could do for them was (at least as I felt it) NOT my 110%. That was sobering.


Jump forward to that afternoon in the car with Amanda.

The reason why I couldn't answer her with any conviction regarding what the future of my work would be was because I hadn't fully come to terms with this reality:

In the 5+ years of images that I've put into my blog, I have done more - by way of style, design and flourish - with the characters I've wanted to draw than if I was actually directly hired by the companies who own them. I did all of that with full liberty and without censor. It's sort of like this: I grew up wanting to draw my version of Character/Team X, Y and Z. With this blog, I did exactly that. And having accomplished all of that, I believe for the time being, I have said all I can about them. Put simply, I don't know if I can draw another Mr. Freeze, or another Harley Quinn, or another Galactus that could better what I've done already.

But let me be clear: I am not saying that what I've done with those characters are the 'perfect' versions of how I will draw them. And I'm not saying, "No more mainstream superheroes. Forever." What I am saying is that for now, I think that's as good as I can draw them - without going into some unsatisfying, auto-pilot version of that character. What I'm saying is that for now, I'm going to put those guys aside.



And, so..

From here forward, until I find that I have something else to contribute to the cannon that are licensed/copyright/trademarked mainstream characters, whenever asked to do a commission of them, I will respectfully decline and say,


"If you wouldn't mind, rather than doing 'Character X', I would prefer doing an image in the spirit of that character."

Zombies fans can murder the creative soul of brilliant artists, but don't let that impede your mandate to shove more Marvel/DC samey-shit down everybody's throat through misguided name dropping. ^_^

I do encourage people to go to a comic convention and pay attention.

You won't see Hickman staring longingly at Canete's table; but if you step outside of the domain of the creators who play the mainstream game in order to pay the bills you'll see a world of creators desperate for your consumer dollars and adoration as a fan.

Granted, not all of them are quality (you had a table there); but there are a lot of diamonds amongst the coal and these are the creators who need deserve more attention, and the way the American comic market is structured they will never see it unless they go to work for Marvel or DC.

I do enjoy all comics, I just don't expect anybody to write a good Red Hulk post Loeb. Sort of how I don't waste my days pining for good Star Wars movies ever since George Lucas shit the bed with the prequels and wasted not only the time of the fans, but the time and immense talent of all the thespians involved in those films.

Comics has a lot of problems to sort out. Firstly it needs to rise above it's ghettoized status as a children's medium to be strip mined for resources for Hollywood blockbusters, underoos, video games, lunch boxes, and action figures.

How shitty would film be if every two years they were trying to shove more Casablanca down our throats? Granted, this happens frequently with genre films (see all the Verhoeven remakes in progress), but as film is accepted as a prolific and bountiful entertainment medium we don't all have to suffer an endless cycle of Michael Bay and Zack Snyder films - which is what Marvel and DC are.

So yeah!

Please go to Heroes Con, or just check Eric Canete's blog to see the awesome versions of characters he can't draw for Marvel and DC because they have no place for them! ^_^

Anywho. . .

11 illustrations left. . .

Crimes in progress!
 
Or you could enjoy both.

Man, you guys need to go to Heroes Con. You don't see Jonathan Hickman gazing longingly at Eric Canete's table or the Loose Ends table, wishing they both respected comics in the same way. They all just want to and do make great comics. They don't see a difference. I don't get why anyone else does.

Hm bad picks for namedrops, as TTOB has pointed out. These people aren't connected to their characters they way the would be with creator-owned projects. Not to mention being restricted by whatever shit event or movie or new bullshit Marvel/DC is pushing this week.

Want to do something unique or controversial with Wolverine? Sorry bub, he's got a PG-13 movie coming out soon.

Want to do something cool with a character that has been out of the limelight for a while? Nope, won't sell enough books. How about you put Spidermang in a comic instead? Or give him a shitty sidekick that no one cares about.

People can enjoy their soap operas and cheesy action flicks, I know I do at times. I also enjoy something deeper. To say that there isn't a difference in the way indies and the big guys treat comics shows me you aren't paying much attention.
 
I think Cyke thinking Hope could handle the Phoenix has been completely justified in the books. He has been drinking the Hope Kool Aid since Messiah Complex and has been really going full bore since Second Coming. They've been playing up her savior angle nonstop and I don't think there was ever a doubt that she was going to be able to handle it in his mind.

I don't think Cap's stance needs any justification.

Summary: AvX is good, quit being a h8r
 
Hm bad picks for namedrops, as TTOB has pointed out. These people aren't connected to their characters they way the would be with creator-owned projects. Not to mention being restricted by whatever shit event or movie or new bullshit Marvel/DC is pushing this week.

Want to do something unique or controversial with Wolverine? Sorry bub, he's got a PG-13 movie coming out soon.

Want to do something cool with a character that has been out of the limelight for a while? Nope, won't sell enough books. How about you put Spidermang in a comic instead? Or give him a shitty sidekick that no one cares about.

People can enjoy their soap operas and cheesy action flicks, I know I do at times. I also enjoy something deeper. To say that there isn't a difference in the way indies and the big guys treat comics shows me you aren't paying much attention.

Like have his team shoot a kid in the face?

Your dog has some trouble hunting.
 
I think Cyke thinking Hope could handle the Phoenix has been completely justified in the books. He has been drinking the Hope Kool Aid since Messiah Complex and has been really going full bore since Second Coming. They've been playing up her savior angle nonstop and I don't think there was ever a doubt that she was going to be able to handle it in his mind.

I don't think Cap's stance needs any justification.

Summary: AvX is good, quit being a h8r

I get that, and I think their relationship was really good, but between cyclops thinking she is special to thinking she is so special she can take on the phoenix and be all right is too much of a stretch to me.

But you are right, AvX is not bad.

The implications of which were nonexistent since Genesis is back now, right?

He's an interesting teen super hero whose story could bring fun for a new generation of readers. Don't worry, Marvel will kill him.
 
I can't speak for creators but that seems to be the most common attitude. If they could, they'd do their own stuff and stop being employees of the big 2. But that's how they have to make a living.

That is changing. There are more and more opportunities to earn some decent cash doing creator owned work, and I can see more and more writers and artists cutting ties with Marvel and DC and doing their own thing.

That's good. As a fan I can certainly support any change in the industry that encourages more innovation and creativity.
 
Dude, seriously?

Name dropping two guys that work for Lamestream comics

Dude, fuck you, and fuck that fucking line of thought that Corporate Comics are the fucking Devil. Fuck you for being one of the kajillions of soothsayers on the internet who think that just because they go on and on about how DC and Marvel are creatively bankrupt it somehow becomes true. Fuck you for assuming that just because guys like Johns and Bendis are at the top of the charts every single cape comic can be written off. Fuck you for thinking that you're better than anyone else just because you have bought an indie comic. Fuck you for not even giving a fucking chance to the comics that deserve it just because of some fucking intellectual prejudice you have against superheroes, and fuck you for then complaining about how there's only a single voice in superhero comics. Fuck you, and fuck the fucking horse you ride on.
 
ElNarez, TTOB is the one who's suppose to get banned, not you. Give it time, he'll say some more stupid shit about black people in the wrong thread or whatever, and he'll be gone for awhile.

Seriously, what is happening in this thread!?!?
 
ElNarez, TTOB is the one who's suppose to get banned, not you. Give it time, he'll say some more stupid shit about black people in the wrong thread or whatever, and he'll be gone for awhile.

Seriously, what is happening in this thread!?!?

Marvel/DC fans making Nintendo fanboys look reasonable.
 
The implications of which were nonexistent since Genesis is back now, right? Or whatever...a clone of him or some other excuse they made up to get out it.

It's been 25 issues since that happened and they're still exploring the ramifications of that act. This whole arc has turned into a character study of Wolverine, and is exploring the cognitive dissonance of his actions. So, you know, fuck you too.
 
Ouch bro. Shots fired.

Meh, not really. I like quite a few mainstream books for various reasons. I also realize the restrictions inherent in stories told by the Big Two.

Nice to see we're already on the TTOB ban countdown because he said something mean about your gods at Marvel/DC though. Classy.

It's been 25 issues since that happened and they're still exploring the ramifications of that act. This whole arc has turned into a character study of Wolverine, and is exploring the cognitive dissonance of his actions. So, you know, fuck you too.
Or we could just agree to disagree.
 
Dude, fuck you, and fuck that fucking line of thought that Corporate Comics are the fucking Devil. Fuck you for being one of the kajillions of soothsayers on the internet who think that just because they go on and on about how DC and Marvel are creatively bankrupt it somehow becomes true. Fuck you for assuming that just because guys like Johns and Bendis are at the top of the charts every single cape comic can be written off. Fuck you for thinking that you're better than anyone else just because you have bought an indie comic. Fuck you for not even giving a fucking chance to the comics that deserve it just because of some fucking intellectual prejudice you have against superheroes, and fuck you for then complaining about how there's only a single voice in superhero comics. Fuck you, and fuck the fucking horse you ride on.

Bro. It's comic books. With magic space racoons and shit. Not worth tat amount of anger...
 
Bro. It's comic books. With magic space racoons and shit. Not worth tat amount of anger...

It's been a thing that's been pissing me off for a while. I said my piece, won't go any further. None of us could've predicted last year that Marvel was gonna launch an Hawkeye ongoing and that it was gonna be pretty amazing. So, kids, don't write off comics for dumb reasons, also stay in school.

e: vv I fucking wish.
 
It's been a thing that's been pissing me off for a while. I said my piece, won't go any further. None of us could've predicted last year that Marvel was gonna launch an Hawkeye ongoing and that it was gonna be pretty amazing. So, kids, don't write off comics for dumb reasons, also stay in school.

But Hawkeye sucks?
 
Dude, fuck you, and fuck that fucking line of thought that Corporate Comics are the fucking Devil. Fuck you for being one of the kajillions of soothsayers on the internet who think that just because they go on and on about how DC and Marvel are creatively bankrupt it somehow becomes true. Fuck you for assuming that just because guys like Johns and Bendis are at the top of the charts every single cape comic can be written off. Fuck you for thinking that you're better than anyone else just because you have bought an indie comic. Fuck you for not even giving a fucking chance to the comics that deserve it just because of some fucking intellectual prejudice you have against superheroes, and fuck you for then complaining about how there's only a single voice in superhero comics. Fuck you, and fuck the fucking horse you ride on.

My apologies for expecting more from the leaders of the comic industry.

Bendis?

Yeah, I remember when he was earning a name for himself with Caliber comics. Then he got the softball gig of re-writing Spiderman to coincide with the release of the Sam Raimi movies. Woo! Such wild creativity rehashing decades old characters and stories.

That's not to say Bendis and Bagley didn't put in their work spit shining those old ideas; but seriously? We're going to celebrate re-telling stories that have been told?

The trend continues still, and it's not the fault of the indie guys. Brubaker, Remender, Fritchman, Hickman, Lemire, and all the rest of these indie phenoms have families to feed and a roof to keep over their head. The only way they can make a steady income in comics is by working for Marvel and DC on the endless cycle of Superman, Batman, Spiderman, etc.

They need to play the game to get paid. Fortunately more creators are speaking out against this trend, and hopefully it's not all just lip service and is the writer side equivalent of the Image founders leaving Marvel and DC to make their own way.

Unfortunately the problem is they don't have Disney and Warner Brothers to foot the bill for their endeavors.

The problem I have now is as much as I enjoy some of the artists and writers working at Marvel and DC, I can't turn a blind eye to their treatment of the creators as a consumer. It sucks not buying a new Alan Davis, Ivan Reis, or Mark Texiera book.

I want to see the destructive American culture of corporate fealty toppled.

Is that too much to ask?
 
Just accept that he's a crappy ripoff of DC's superior Green Lantern. And my favorite comic book is Batman, thank you very much. The Bane is my favorite of his villians. He's just so hardcore!
 
I've never seen so much tension in a thread all because people are worried Tebow won't do well in today's game against the Steelers.
 
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