You win the internet.
-
Hey Guest. Check out your NeoGAF Wrapped 2025 results here!
Mother Jones: "Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Voters"
- Thread starter Shake Appeal
- Start date
- Status
You win the internet.
polyh3dron
Banned
where is his mind indeed... bwahahahahaha
I think he means footsteps of failure.
Gaffes were his father's bane.
Come to think of it, maybe that's why Mitt is normally so cautious to the point of appearing robotic. This must be like his worst nightmare come to life; suffering the same fate as his father.
speculawyer
Member
Because they are completely dependent on the government, duh. And they don't have the personal responsibility to care for their lives . . . look at them . . . they signed up for a low-paying job that can get them killed. You don't see Mitt or any of his five sons doing that kind of work. The better question is why would he care about them?
At least history mostly looks down kindly on his father. Mitt won't be so lucky.
The only Obama foe that might see redemption is Hillary Clinton.
Damn. Dat Primary. Those were magical times.
speculawyer
Member
Well, this is the USA. Bare knuckles capitalism. OK, we'll give you food stamps so you don't starve. If you are capable but don't work at all . . . then yeah, you go homeless. That's fine with me.
But you know who would be pretty disappointed with this message?
Jesus.
They're not entitled to food!
Thagomizer
Member
The Romney Campaign just shot themselves in the foot.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about American culture (I'm an expert), but pride and respect are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in Britain where you can get elected to Parliament by being an asshole. If you tell someone to screw themselves in America, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is the American public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to vote Mitt Romney for their presidency, nor will they vote for any of the Republican's candidates. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Mitt Romney has alienated an entire market with this move.
Mitt, publicly apologize and cancel Paul Ryan for Vice President or you can kiss your election goodbye.
I don't know how much the rest of you know about American culture (I'm an expert), but pride and respect are huge parts of it. It's not like it is in Britain where you can get elected to Parliament by being an asshole. If you tell someone to screw themselves in America, you bring shame to yourself, and the only way to get rid of that shame is repentance.
What this means is the American public, after hearing about this, is not going to want to vote Mitt Romney for their presidency, nor will they vote for any of the Republican's candidates. This is HUGE. You can laugh all you want, but Mitt Romney has alienated an entire market with this move.
Mitt, publicly apologize and cancel Paul Ryan for Vice President or you can kiss your election goodbye.
speculawyer
Member
Yeah, he's a fuck. Seriously . . . I'm more Christian than these supposed Christians and I'm an atheist.
Chie Satonaka
Member
Bravo.
I'm just sitting here kind of blown away that this actually happened. And then he doubled down on it. Holy shit. I hope this is the end for old Mittens. How can you escape it?
I wish I could have a radio at work tomorrow so I could listen to all the meltdowns from callers on talk radio. That and the spin.
snip
Joel Was Right
Member
I don't really see much controversy here
By itself, you're probably right. Thing is, it feeds the current narrative of a failing campaign. Every minute spent addressing this is another minute Obama runs out the clock.
ErasureAcer
Banned
Mormonism isn't Christianity.
Sirpopopop
Member
No. I disagree. Strongly
It's a depressingly ignorant comment that overtly stokes the class war fire in a way that no candidate should ever do.
It's the embodiment of classist Randian thinking that those "dirty poors" got into their situation due to their own ineptitude, and if they only "BOOTSTRAPS" they could get out.
I don't think I said I wanna "have it out." But ok!
No, I'm not saying any of this. Nice talking to you.
Just because I don't agree doesn't mean I'm confused, dude. From what I've seen on these boards you're much better than that, so I'll just give you the benefit of the doubt that you weren't trying to be condescending.
Was going to look for the full transcript so I could actually provide the context that everyone claimed to know, but NullPointer took care of that for me while I was away;
Barack Obama said:
MAYBE the most offensive line of the speech. Yet another look into how the left thinks people are resources and numbers on spreadsheets to be managed and manipulated, and how "the government" deserves credit for everything.
Barack Obama said:
Here is the context that really matters. You're not successful because of your hard work or your smarts, you were just lucky, and those who aren't as successful just haven't been lucky. You didn't work harder, you weren't smarter, you didn't make less mistakes, nope -- dumb luck. Obama isn't the first person to say something like this, and there have been a lot of people who have said it a lot more bluntly. In fact, I predict some will upon reading this response. I find it deplorable to try and undercut people's achievements, or give credit to other people for that success. We all have access to the roads, bridges, legal system, police; a successful business owner making better use of those services is like them making better use of clean air, or daylight. "You didn't get there on your own -- the sun provided light for you to work." It provided light for everyone to make use of, ass.
Barack Obama said:
If you made money off the internet, the government deserves credit because they created it. Likewise, if you were successful at all, the government deserves credit for creating the entire system. It's a parallel. Also, "that roads and bridges" doesn't make sense. "That business" does. Why didn't he say "you didn't build those"? By itself, not nearly enough to damn him, but as I've said, I think the rest of the context of the speech does that.
Again, not confused.
So, let me summarize the context as to why I disagree:
Barack Obama said:
Just to be clear, I'm not saying this is proof that Obama is a communist who thinks everything should belong 100% to the government. But I am saying he doesn't believe it belongs to 100% the individual. Again, much like Elizabeth Warren, he is so incredibly gracious to allow us to keep a "big chunk" of it, but feels "the government" is entitled to a healthy share too, for all the roads and bridges and police and whatnot. Moreover, I don't really find this idea by itself awful at all... if he weren't targeting the successful and business owners and such-and-such. If he were saying "no matter who you are, you benefit from these things, and that's why we have taxes to begin with" no problem. The problem is that he's saying because some people made better use of them, they are lucky, and have to pay a higher percentage. That's what I object to.
So, to be clear, since I think everyone jumped to an extreme conclusion, here is what Obama said, in my opinion; "If you have a business, you didn't build that... (completely). We built it too because of the roads and bridges and teachers." And yeah, I think that is an abhorrent thing to say.
This is why I wasn't responding to you before tonight. Bookmark this thread if you're ever confused as to why I won't again in the future. You're a child.
Lastly, everyone, let's say he was saying "If you own a business, you didn't build the roads or bridges." Why the fuck would he even say this? It... it's like the ramblings or a crazy person on the street. "Um, yes, you're right? I own a small advertising company, not a road-building one. Um... of course I didn't build the bridge? Neither did you? Or are you saying that I wasn't one of the ones who paid for it because... yes I was? In fact, more than most? ... I... why are you saying this? Are you ok, sir?"
"You didn't build the spaceship either! Pay more taxes! Blllaaaarrggghhh!"
I could write so much more about what a disgusting speech this is, but I'm not going to stay up way too late for one of these threads again. I've said enough; have at. 'Night.
Banjo Tango
Member
This used to be my take, but really - if someone is capable of working and just doesn't want to? - then please, stay the fuck out of the workforce and out of the way of the people who do. They should still have a place to stay that's off of the streets.
Providing food, shelter, and health care seems like a pretty humanitarian baseline (and makes sense financially). I also don't like the implication that aid would be contingent on determining if someone is 'capable' of finding work, giving governments the incentive to tweak that definition to make their short-term budgets look good or score points by cracking down on 'the lazy'.
It's also ironic because it was Romney's response to paying 13% federal income tax lol
MorisUkunRasik
Member
...wat
polyh3dron
Banned
So yeah looks like tomorrow the video will be dropping about Romney talking about how his dad was born in Mexico and he'd have a better chance at winning this if his dad was born to a Latino family instead of an American family. It's delivered as a joke and the crowd eats it up.
spiderman123
Member
Nothing really controversial. I share some similar sentiments on issues of health care , housing and food in terms of personal responsibility.In terms of 47% of Americans paying no income tax, it generally has to do with the fact that they don't earn enough per annum so they qualify for tax exceptions and deductions which reduce their estimated taxable income to zero.
Sirpopopop
Member
BFIB
Member
I really don't see how Romney can recover. Even if the rest of the video comes out, he said what he said, with vigor, with confidence, and its clear that this is truly how he feels towards the middle class, and lower income.
What he said tonight is immoral, rude, and plainly disrespectful to myself, but even more so, to the men and women who are sacrificing their lives. He should be condemned for his actions, and the GOP should ban him from their ticket.
But they won't, because this is how I think the GOP, as a whole, feels about the middle class.
What he said tonight is immoral, rude, and plainly disrespectful to myself, but even more so, to the men and women who are sacrificing their lives. He should be condemned for his actions, and the GOP should ban him from their ticket.
But they won't, because this is how I think the GOP, as a whole, feels about the middle class.
MorisUkunRasik
Member
eBay Huckster
Member
Wait a minute, people are still seriously responding to Duffy? He's like Kosmo but with more frequent posting!
ErasureAcer
Banned
Mitt has never been on message this entire campaign. He doesn't want to talk about the economy because then he'd have to release details of his plan which he doesn't have. His entire campaign has been he's not Obama. The Republicans know they can't win with their made up bullshit so they've turned to fear tactics and opposing Obama at every turn in hopes of killing any recovery and thus pointing at him any yelling "failure!"
Joel Was Right
Member
Which part was ignorant, the 47% estimation or that a group of people are dependant on the government and will never vote Republican regardless?
Phoenix
Member
ErasureAcer said:
Honestly, I don't think Romney planned to run again after 2008. Why else would he ever write an article calling for GM/Chrysler to go bankrupt? Even if you feel that way, why slap MI and OH in the face ?
He has no specific plans and just attacks on Obama. With the economy not recovering, he thought he could win the presidency by default. Hopefully he fails
ErasureAcer
Banned
Jesus doesn't have a brother named Satan as proclaimed in that Mormon Cartoon vid which I assume everything is true according to Mormon faith. Jesus is the one and only son of God. I'm not Christian and I know that much. How hardcore believers of Christianity are supporting Mitt who believes Jesus has a brother is beyond me.
Sirpopopop
Member
Both parts.
The first, because it's taken out of context. Yes, context matters. If you disagree, it's pointless to continue arguing.
The second, because it assumes facts about people. It assumes that taking help from the government means you are dependent on it. It assumes that paying your fair share of taxes means that you are dependent on the government. It assumes that these people have no sense of personal responsibility (including the military folks who don't pay the income tax). It assumes that these people will not vote Republican, and that they aren't worth his time to help.
It assumes that these people see themselves as victims. It assumes that everyone can get by without some help from the government to help them along the way. No, we don't live in that type of society. We won't ever live in that type of society again. That's something to be thankful for...
Ah, ok. So it's not that you're misinterpreting it, it's that you disagree with the message.
Or... hmm.
Because it was an error. He intended to say "you didn't build those." The intended meaning is that there is an infrastructure, a solid foundation in which you can operate your business, and that this is due to the government. You can dispute the idea if you like, but why go to so much effort to twist it?
Here's an example that might prove illustrative: a day or two ago, Romney had a slight flub in an interview with George Stephanapoaspfouisdf
"No! He said no, 100k isn't middle income!" cried the people who desperately wished to believe the worst of Romney at all times. "That means he thinks middle income is between $100k and $250k!"
It's hard to reason with this sort of thing. Pull back from the emotions a little, and it's obvious that the intended meaning was that middle income was $250k and below, with no floor given. But because of the word "no," people were able to twist it to mean what they wanted it to.
The same applies to "you didn't build that." Pull back a little, think about it, and it's obvious what he meant. The flub of saying "that" instead of "those" gives you just enough room that you can twist it to your preferred meaning. But give it a try and see what happens.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
This made me smile.
I am curious what's to come. Surely you would come out the gate with the best parts, so you'd think it won't be worse than what we've already heard.
polyh3dron
Banned
ah yeah well i don't read chitown's posts.. that explains that.
Shake Appeal
Member
"You didn't get there on your own" is not semantically equivalent to "You got there solely with our help". Obama is saying -- correctly, as any reasonable person understands -- that everyone in a working modern democracy starts from a base platform of support and available public resources. That is not to dismiss totally anyone's achievements as "dumb luck"; it is to point out -- correctly, as any reasonable person understands -- that even instance of success in a modern working democracy is a partnership between the successful individual and the legions of living and dead democratic participants who worked to provide the very conditions for that success. When Obama says "you didn't build that", he is referring to "the American system" earlier in the quote, the system that hundreds of millions of Americans helped to assemble and sustain, and he is right.
Time to post this again?
Which states have the highest proportion of non-income-tax-payers? (shown in red)
Gee willikers, how will Romney ever convince the Deep South to vote for him?
Source
come on man you know they will think he wasn't talking about them at all.
Devolution
Member
More people should have read his posts in the abortion threads, they'd know better.
Shake Appeal
Member
People on Intrade are literally dumping their shares in Mitt Romney after that presser.
The Librarian
Banned
People on Intrade are literally dumping their shares in Mitt Romney after that presser.
Never understood why people talk about Intrade so much. Doesn't really provide anything that you couldn't get a general sense of if you pay enough attention to the news.
Hero_of_the_Day
Member
He'll have all the time in the world to spend with his family soon enough.
Basileus777
Member
The Presidential election was pretty much over before this, the real question now is how this affects turnout and the downticket races.
- Status