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Mother Jones: "Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Voters"

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LTTP here...but 47% don't pay any income tax. Really?

And if you win the election there'll be optimism about the country and we'll get capital and you won't even need to do anything. Really?
 
Gaborn said:
Right, because in China if you offer higher wages and better conditions than surrounding options... there is demand to work there! SHOCK! HORROR!

I think a lot of the other videos are damaging to him, but that one in particular is just ignorance not on Romney's part but on the uploader that thought it was inflammatory.
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"The guards and towers are to keep people out! No Really!" Romney is so gullible.
 
Omegasquash said:
LTTP here...but 47% don't pay any income tax. Really?

And if you win the election there'll be optimism about the country and we'll get capital and you won't even need to do anything. Really?
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First point: This 47% may very well have included Mitt Romney at some point in the last decade.

Second point: For the very poor, where is the income tax going to come from? They don't have any income, or so little that they're on government assistance. Which, by definition means they already don't have enough money to live on (after all the other taxes they aren't exempted from, incidentally). If you tax their income, you also have to raise the level of government assistance being provided, so what's the point?
 
doubling down

Republican Mitt Romney says a video clip in which he called nearly half of Americans "victims" was "not elegantly stated" and was "spoken off the cuff." But he says President Barack Obama's approach is "attractive to people who are not paying taxes."
...

The Republican nominee did not disavow the comments but said they were made during a question-and-answer session. He said it was indicative of his campaign's effort to "focus on the people in the middle."
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teruterubozu said:
After being horrified by 12 people shacking up together and turning to your partner and saying WTF?
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Nope. Conditions in the developing world ARE awful, but its a rather well established economic fact that the reason people work at sweat shops is better wages than other options. The reason the wages are higher is because the workforce needs to be gathered quickly so they offer above market wages. That over time leads to better conditions and wages for EVERYONE. This happens again and again.

But no, I can confirm I, a gay libertarian atheist from Michigan am not Mitt Romney.
 
Omegasquash said:
LTTP here...but 47% don't pay any income tax. Really?

And if you win the election there'll be optimism about the country and we'll get capital and you won't even need to do anything. Really?
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When you do all the calculations, it turns out people pay a pretty flat rate of tax relative to their overall income anyway - although lower income earners don't pay income tax, they pay a higher proportion of their income through all the other consumption and flat taxes at the state and local level.

Indeed... the people at the very top end that make their money through capital investments are the real assholes/freeloaders of the system - paying a lower proportion of their overall wealth over time, than any other group.
 
Gaborn said:
Nope. Conditions in the developing world ARE awful, but its a rather well established economic fact that the reason people work at sweat shops is better wages than other options. The reason the wages are higher is because the workforce needs to be gathered quickly so they offer above market wages. That over time leads to better conditions and wages for EVERYONE. This happens again and again.

But no, I can confirm I, a gay libertarian atheist from Michigan am not Mitt Romney.
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I just find it strange that he sees all these disconcerting things and someone says, "No, it's OK!" and he's like yeah. I really would like to know what he did with that factory. And besides, him buying a Chinese factory doesn't exactly assuage the national anger against shipping jobs overseas.
 
teruterubozu said:
I just find it strange that he sees all these disconcerting things and someone says, "No, it's OK!" and he's like yeah. I really would like to know what he did with that factory. And besides, him buying a Chinese factory doesn't exactly assuage the national anger against shipping jobs overseas.
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I just don't see the problem here. You're basically saying we should hold a country's working condition standards to the US and that's not realistic. No company that operates in a country like China works like that. I guess it can work as an emotional appeal though.

Edit: damn, didn't mean to DP.
 
Gaborn said:
I just don't see the problem here. You're basically saying we should hold a country's working condition standards to the US and that's not realistic. No company that operates in a country like China works like that. I guess it can work as an emotional appeal though.

Edit: damn, didn't mean to DP.
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I'll give you that. Romney does seem emotionless.
 
thefro said:
Yep, the funny part is they're the same ones who said Romney's plan has to raise taxes on the middle class.
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Yup, definitely a double edged sword for him. Its going to be interesting to see what the fall out from this is. My issues with the "chinese slave labor" video aside the rest of it should cause some damage. Although personally I don't think it will be crippling.
 
gutter_trash said:
LOL but equating fully that this number is the same as Obama voters is laughable.

most of them are uneducated low income blue collar conservatives who vote Republican
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I'm not disagreeing with your analysis here, merely providing what seems like the source of the statistics that you thought were out of his ass.
 
Gaborn said:
I'm not disagreeing with your analysis here, merely providing what seems like the source of the statistics that you thought were out of his ass.
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they are brought out of his ass because he equated ALL of them to be Obama voters.

Which anyone knows, poor conservative white folk in red states still vote Republican
 
Gaborn said:
I've always been annoyed by the lack of context for sweatshops. Even KRUGMAN agrees that sweatshops are a moral good. Yet people like to spread ignorance about them. that's why I care about that particular video.
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There is no context for 16 hour non regulated assembly line no-other-option job positions. There is no moral good. It's necessary for global neoliberal capitalism to thrive.
 
Angry Fork said:
There is no context for 16 hour non regulated assembly line no-other-option job positions. There is no moral good. It's necessary for global neoliberal capitalism to thrive.
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Sure there is. Compare it to other jobs and local businesses in the town. Boom. Context.
 
aKG4v.gif
 
Gaborn said:
Sure there is. Compare it to other jobs and local businesses in the town. Boom. Context.
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Which is only a moral good if you ignore the rest of the world and what the communist party is capable of doing to make their lives better but chooses not to in the interest of state profit. That 'context' doesn't make it a moral good, it makes it better than starving.
 
gutter_trash said:
they are brought out of his ass because he equated ALL of them to be Obama voters.

Which anyone knows, poor conservative white folk in red states still vote Republican
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Keep in mind that these people don't care about personal responsibility or their own lives. They give no fucks for their own lives. Makes sense?
 
I sleep better at night knowing libertarianism and the people who fully support it will never amount to anything in American politics.
 
Romney does whatever he can to contribute as little as possible and take whatever he can get away with. He's jealous of this imaginary All Obama Voters.
 
I'm sure the person who recorded that video can be identified by the fundraisers. There's a seating chart somewhere, or even just a "who was sitting on that side of the room?" discussion that could pinpoint them. I'm very interested to see if they are publicly outed. If it was waitstaff, that person is going to get fired and want to speak out.

Edit: looking at the video, I think it's probably someone from the caterers. Looks like it's on a cart with glasses, etc.


Gaborn said:
The moral good comes from the EFFECT the higher wages offered in the "sweat shop" has on the surrounding community. Krugman does it better than me though.
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Gaborn, are US sweatshops a moral good? Those workers don't make above market wages, they are virtually held prisoner to pay off the "cost" of entry. I have little beef with Foxconn et al because those factories do improve the economics of their worker populations. Although, the influence of the state is also much greater in China and it isn't a true market system.
 
Gaborn said:
The moral good comes from the EFFECT the higher wages offered in the "sweat shop" has on the surrounding community. Krugman does it better than me though.
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I'm not sure what Krugman thinks about capitalism's longevity but the article gives off the impression that it's the final economic system with no alternatives. How is it responsible to say 'well there will always be 3rd world workers in shitty conditions, tis the way the world works i'm afraid' and just leave it at that?

That is better than starving and scavenging but it should be the role of economists and intellectuals to seriously seek and think about alternatives as well so this system doesn't continue as it is. If that kind of labor is all that's available in said countries then it is what it is, but it shouldn't be championed it should be seen as a necessary evil (necessary within the current system). I hate Obama's foreign policy, Romney's would be much worse, but that doesn't make Obama's foreign policy great.
 
The Republican nominee did not disavow the comments but said they were made during a question-and-answer session. He said it was indicative of his campaign's effort to "focus on the people in the middle."
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Umm.....could someone tell Romney when he talked about that 47% he also disavowed a good portion of "the middle"?
 
So in a single week Romney has


1. Alienated 47% of the likely voters
2. Alienated Latinos
3. Alienated African Americans
4. Alienated Muslim Voters
5. Disengaged from Elderly Government Check dependent voters
 
adamsappel said:
Gaborn, are US sweatshops a moral good? Those workers don't make above market wages, they are virtually held prisoner to pay off the "cost" of entry. I have little beef with Foxconn et al because those factories do improve the economics of their worker populations. Although, the influence of the state is also much greater in China and it isn't a true market system.
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I think they're morally neutral because no one is forced to work in them and I suspect they DO provide a degree of economic mobility and opportunity for people. The key is that the person be capable of leaving of their own will. As long as the work is voluntary and not forced then I would lean to yes.

Angry Fork said:
I'm not sure what Krugman thinks about capitalism's longevity but the article gives off the impression that it's the final economic system with no alternatives. How is it responsible to say 'well there will always be 3rd world workers in shitty conditions, tis the way the world works i'm afraid' and just leave it at that?
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I'm not sure that is a fair reading of his position.

That is better than starving and scavenging but it should be the role of economists and intellectuals to seriously seek and think about alternatives as well so this system doesn't continue as it is. If that kind of labor is all that's available in said countries then it is what it is, but it shouldn't be championed it should be seen as a necessary evil (necessary within the current system). I hate Obama's foreign policy, Romney's would be much worse, but that doesn't make Obama's foreign policy great.
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I don't consider it a "necessary evil" I consider it an inevitable GOOD.
 
Timedog said:
How could you "think" anything about a video or series of videos that haven't been released yet?
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Because the contents of that video aren't secret. And what was released was pretty much what I said it would be. The fact remains the bombshell remains what was released day 1. The rest is just mehhhhh.
 
Guys...does this need its own thread?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19637631

Mitt Romney secret video reveals views on Middle East

A new secret video clip has emerged of remarks by Republican candidate Mitt Romney, saying the Palestinians are committed to Israel's destruction.

He tells donors the Middle East will "remain an unsolved problem... and we kick the ball down the field".
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Mr Romney is shown saying that Palestinians are "committed to the destruction and elimination of Israel".

"The Palestinians have no interest whatsoever in establishing peace," he says, adding that "the pathway to peace is almost unthinkable to accomplish".
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"If I were Iran - a crazed fanatic, I'd say let's get a little fissile material to Hezbollah, have them carry it to Chicago or some other place, and then if anything goes wrong, or America starts acting up, we'll just say, 'Guess what? Unless you stand down, why, we're going to let off a dirty bomb'.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukhFBJgrZxM&feature=player_embedded#!
 
Gaborn said:
I don't consider it a "necessary evil" I consider it an inevitable GOOD.
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Then surely you have 'great, excellent, amazing, perfect' after 'good' on your scale too right? You can't possibly be serious in saying 16 hour days shoveling shit in caves is a good thing unless you ignore the rest of the world or it's on the lower end of your judging spectrum. You do know there are way better conditions that could be possible than that? Is good basically a nice way of saying bad for you? I don't understand.
 
grimshawish said:
Guys...does this need its own thread?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-19637631

Mitt Romney secret video reveals views on Middle East

A new secret video clip has emerged of remarks by Republican candidate Mitt Romney, saying the Palestinians are committed to Israel's destruction.

He tells donors the Middle East will "remain an unsolved problem... and we kick the ball down the field"./QUOTE]





http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ukhFBJgrZxM&feature=player_embedded#!
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There already is a separate thread.
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Angry Fork said:
Then surely you have 'great, excellent, amazing, perfect' after 'good' on your scale too right? You can't possibly be serious in saying 16 hour days shoveling shit in caves is a good thing unless you ignore the rest of the world or it's on the lower end of your judging spectrum. You do know there are way better conditions that could be possible than that? Is good basically a nice way of saying bad for you? I don't understand.
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That depends, what are the better options available to the person? How much are they being paid? What were they doing before? What were they being paid for that? You want to propose a situation and then express moral outrage but you don't want to think about the actual reason for the person doing the job. You also seem unaware historically what happens to poor countries with cheap labor bases.
 
Is this really derailing into a discussion of morals regarding third world capitalist exploitation? It is wrong to drive rural communities into ruin by tempting the youth to run to the cities and factories for a wage living.

The labor shifts to the city, leaving subsistence farming to fail, and subsequently creating a system of dependency upon which the capitalists know they can abuse the system through long hours and poor salaries.

The unnatural rapid progression from agricultural to export-based industrial is unhealthy for the entire planet outside of the few who obscenely profit from the violent imbalance of power.

How can anyone defend this?
 
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