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Mother Jones: "Romney Tells Millionaire Donors What He REALLY Thinks of Obama Voters"

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Schattenjäger;42266671 said:
This will blow over well before the debates

Relax GAF

There's a remote chance it will ignite more support for him
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If any. this will reignite support for Obama's 2008 supporters who were sitting out the election
 
I foresee Romney at the debates standing with his butt perked out, shoulders forward, and smirking like a corporate raider who just profited from outsourcing 10,000 jobs.

I attended a lecture by one of the preeminent GOP spin masters who coaches these people to evade questions and answer with weasel words and sat back and wondered why people eat this crap up... I came to the conclusion that while some of the population dislikes "intellectual elitists", the more you sound like you elegantly replied, the content of the answer is ignored amidst the pretty bows and wrapping it is contained within.
 
Gaborn said:
That depends, what are the better options available to the person? How much are they being paid? What were they doing before? What were they being paid for that? You want to propose a situation and then express moral outrage but you don't want to think about the actual reason for the person doing the job. You also seem unaware historically what happens to poor countries with cheap labor bases.
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I've already accepted that, but it's a reality with no other option for them at that moment. If you were in their head and they only knew what they saw from birth then it may be in their eyes a good option but from the US we know alternatives. And I wouldn't even buy for a minute that they think their position is good, they know it's a necessary evil too. People know what it's like to be slaves especially when they see others in power or managerial positions who do less than they do but make more. They know something is wrong otherwise there wouldn't be people threatening to suicide or forming unions.

Again, picking the better of 2 really bad options does not make the better one a moral good. It doesn't make it something we should aspire to. It makes it a necessary evil (and only necessary because this system requires it, while people don't seem to give a shit about thinking of other more ethical systems). Being able to become educated in a field you enjoy and can make a living on is a moral good, being able to control your work surroundings democratically with others is even better and so on.
 
Angry Fork said:
I've already accepted that, but it's a reality with no other option for them at that moment. If you were in their head and they only knew what they saw from birth then it may be in their eyes a good option but from the US we know alternatives. And I wouldn't even buy for a minute that they think their position is good, they know it's a necessary evil too. People know what it's like to be slaves especially when they see others in power or managerial positions who do less than they do but make more. They know something is wrong otherwise there wouldn't be people threatening to suicide or forming unions.

Again, picking the better of 2 really bad options does not make the better one a moral good. It doesn't make it something we should aspire to. It makes it a necessary evil (and only necessary because this system requires it, while people don't seem to give a shit about thinking of other more ethical systems). Being able to become educated in a field you enjoy and can make a living on is a moral good, being able to control your work surroundings democratically with others is even better and so on.
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I'm not sure anyone has come up with a better system for economic mobility.
 
Schattenjäger;42266864 said:
Depends on how the economy is doing in November and if there is a better jobs report - id say those not planning to vote for Obama are those that have still not found a job
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You don't think much of people.
 
Gaborn said:
I'm not sure anyone has come up with a better system for economic mobility.
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Nobody is encouraged to think outside of the box because you're called a crazy commie if you do, it's been dogmatically taught that capitalism is the only thing that works and none can be tried without massive revolution which is rarely done because people are unwilling to destroy and rebuild.
 
DEO3 said:
aKG4v.gif
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tears
 
Eteric Rice said:
And my grandmother just said, "And he's right, too!"

D:

Love my grandma to death, but her politics are terrible.
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My parent would agree.

Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity say stuff like this every day and their listeners dream of a candidate that would campaign with this messaging.

Now that this Romney audio has leaked out and the fallout has been so dramatic, it will be interesting to see if those voices will be humbled to any extent.
 
Angry Fork said:
Nobody is encouraged to think outside of the box because you're called a crazy commie if you do, it's been dogmatically taught that capitalism is the only thing that works and none can be tried without massive revolution which is rarely done because people are unwilling to destroy and rebuild.
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*Shrug* Capitalism tends to work. Communism has tended to be corrupted. Maybe one day someone will build a better mouse trap.
 
Tom_Cody said:
Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity say stuff like this every day and their listeners dream of a candidate that would campaign with this messaging.

Now that this Romney audio has leaked out and the fallout has been so dramatic, it will be interesting to see if those voices will be humbled to any extent.
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Keep dreaming. Every conservative (including Kosmo) is waiting for 12pm EST to hear Rush's talking point spin on this. It's Rush's duty to hand out marching orders.
 
lol that's a great gif
The funny thing is these have all been unforced errors. Obama hasn't really said a damn thing besides "where's the tax returns" and "Romney accuses before understanding" mostly he can just sit back and watch Romney's campaign implode slowly over the last month or so
 
onadesertedisland said:
Eeek... Capitalism is not corrupt? Or is it that we are given just enough carrot to keep us moving? I disagree with this line of thinking.
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I'm not saying that capitalism isn't corrupt, it can be extremely corrupt. BUT what I am saying is the outcome of capitalism tends to be a degree of economic mobility that has not been seen in communist systems. In other words while the political end of it can be badly corrupted the OUTCOMES tend to be better than communism.
 
http://www.thedailybeast.com/conten...18/here-s-why-mitt-s-100-wrong-on-the-47.html

More than one-fifth of Romney's moocher 47% are elderly: people who pay no income taxes because their income takes the form of Social Security - many of those people are Republican voters (even if they don't understand "dependency" to apply to them).

Among today's elderly, the great majority will receive more in Medicare benefits than they ever paid in taxes - dependency again. You can do the math for yourself and your parents right here:

(Those who retired prior to 1967 received full Medicare benefits without ever paying into Medicare at all.)

And as Ezra Klein pointed out yesterday, more than 60% of the 47% pay payroll taxes. At 15.3%, the payroll tax rate represents a higher rate of tax than that paid by Mitt Romney himself.

Only about one-fifth of taxpayers are non-elderly people who pay no tax at all, and they are paying no tax mostly because they are unemployed in the worst economic crisis since the 1930s, a crisis that candidate Romney blames on the president and promises to correct. It seems a hard saying to call these promised beneficiaries of a Romney recovery people who don't take responsibility for their lives.
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Heh
 
Tom_Cody said:
My parent would agree.

Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity say stuff like this every day and their listeners dream of a candidate that would campaign with this messaging.

Now that this Romney audio has leaked out and the fallout has been so dramatic, it will be interesting to see if those voices will be humbled to any extent.
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Nope. This is actually why it's such a problem and why Romney didn't walk it back -- his base thinks exactly this and wants him to say it louder and more often. He can't get away from it.

Of course, the thing about the GOP base is that it's 20% of a country that thinks it's 80%.
 
Not sure if this has been posted? Didn't see it.

Mitt Romney's 47 Percent Disproportionately Live In Republican States

mitt-romney-tax.png


Out of the 10 states with the highest percentage of filers with no liability, all but one — Florida — are reliable Republican stalwarts.

This map, however, only measures Americans who file tax returns without liability. Millions of others have some income, but not enough to file a return. Those people, combined with the 52 million who make up this map, comprise the 47 percent.

Of course, just because people don't pay income taxes doesn't mean they don't pay any taxes at all. Here's another breakdown of the 47 percent, which shows how nearly two-thirds of that 47 percent pay payroll taxes. Most of the last third are comprised of the elderly (who also tend to vote reliably Republican) and people who make less than $20,000 (big Obama supporters).


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/mitt...ap-red-republican-states-2012-9#ixzz26peEY1cF
 
pigeon said:
Nope. This is actually why it's such a problem and why Romney didn't walk it back -- his base thinks exactly this and wants him to say it louder and more often. He can't get away from it.

Of course, the thing about the GOP base is that it's 20% of a country that thinks it's 80%.
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That's true. Seems like all of the gaffes republicans make are just things they actually believe without the layer of bullshit they usually smother it with to ensure some moderates will vote for them
 
the foreign policy debate is the last one in late October, all he has to do his learn slogans and zingers and just pivot away from the question and spout his views instead.

So he basically has a month to go through the Sarah Palin training regiment like in `08

=======

WeAreStarStuff said:
Not sure if this has been posted? Didn't see it.

Mitt Romney's 47 Percent Disproportionately Live In Republican States

mitt-romney-tax.png


Out of the 10 states with the highest percentage of filers with no liability, all but one — Florida — are reliable Republican stalwarts.

This map, however, only measures Americans who file tax returns without liability. Millions of others have some income, but not enough to file a return. Those people, combined with the 52 million who make up this map, comprise the 47 percent.

Of course, just because people don't pay income taxes doesn't mean they don't pay any taxes at all. Here's another breakdown of the 47 percent, which shows how nearly two-thirds of that 47 percent pay payroll taxes. Most of the last third are comprised of the elderly (who also tend to vote reliably Republican) and people who make less than $20,000 (big Obama supporters).


Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/mitt...ap-red-republican-states-2012-9#ixzz26peEY1cF
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exactly, poor low income blue collar conservatives who continuously vote Republican no matter what even if it is against their better interests.

But these people are not gonna care about Romney's statements because they are part of the 30% base that will vote Republican no matter what
 
planar1280 said:
So in a single week Romney has


1. Alienated 47% of the likely voters
2. Alienated Latinos
3. Alienated African Americans
4. Alienated Muslim Voters
5. Disengaged from Elderly Government Check dependent voters
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Beyond this we get a look into his head. The guy is a quitter on every level. We already knew he gave up on American Jobs at Bain. Now we know he gives up on half the country who he deems irresponsible. And now he gives up on Peace processes in Israel/Palestine. His worldview is permanent black/white that lacks any detail of spectrum of colors between the two.
 
pigeon said:
Of course, the thing about the GOP base is that it's 20% of a country that thinks it's 80%.
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This is funny when you read the recent statements from republican advisers and people on the right in general, basically saying Romney should be a shoe-in based on this economy and they don't understand what's going on why he isn't winning in polls etc. They don't realize the majority of the US agrees with liberal policies but less are able to admit it when it's associated with the black guy or democrats or has certain scary buzzwords.

I don't know how 'moderates' or independents can exist though, what do they want? If it's someone who's a green party person or socialist then that label is okay but I don't understand independents who plan on choosing either romney or obama? And have no interest in green/socialist/confederate/constitution party stuff. What middle of the line tone do they expect? Do they not see that romney and obama have dramatic sharp differences? Even if democrats and republicans were similar then how would you even know who to vote for besides based on personality? The moderate term just seems like such a weird empty concept.
 
Angry Fork said:
I don't know how 'moderates' or independents can exist though, what do they want? If it's someone who's a green party person or socialist then that label is okay but I don't understand independents who plan on choosing either romney or obama? And have no interest in green/socialist/confederate/constitution party stuff. What middle of the line tone do they expect? Do they not see that romney and obama have dramatic sharp differences? Even if democrats and republicans were similar then how would you even know who to vote for besides based on personality? The moderate term just seems like such a weird empty concept.
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To be blunt, most people don't actually have the time or energy to read about and think about politics all day, so if the media tells them that both sides have faults, that's what they believe. Caring about politics is a luxury -- unless you're pretty well off, it costs you something to do it.

That said, this election is, actually, moving more and more independents into the Democratic camp, possibly permanently, so yes, in general they see the difference, and are seeing it more every week.
 
Gaborn said:
*Shrug* Capitalism tends to work. Communism has tended to be corrupted. Maybe one day someone will build a better mouse trap.
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The most successful states have been based around capitalism tempered with socialist ideas, but this is to be expected since most modern nations grew out of the age of liberalism. Judging Communism by its historical examples doesn't give us a lot of useful information, since the two largest examples were formed in violent revolution, and power was seized by a vanguard party led by power-crazed maniacs. Peaceful and stable transitions from a capitalist model to a communist one are hard to even conceive of, because gradual change to incorporate some communist ideas results in hefty compromises, giving us the "sort of capitalist, but borrowing socialist ideas" model that is commonplace in the west.

Further muddying issues is that we had pretty strong counter revolutionary sentiment from countries that were not communist ever since the USSR showed up. The Fascist powers and the Western Democracies both hated the Communists, and the nature of the post war world meant that the majority of the world's population and its strongest economies were now aligned against them, and would actively work to fuck around with their shit. This isn't exactly an experimental design free of confounding variables, and it's hard to say things with certainty as a result.
 
Tom_Cody said:
My parent would agree.

Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity say stuff like this every day and their listeners dream of a candidate that would campaign with this messaging.

Now that this Romney audio has leaked out and the fallout has been so dramatic, it will be interesting to see if those voices will be humbled to any extent.
Click to expand...
If you're reasonably intelligent AND in the extreme right wing, you have to agree with Romney. I've had these discussions with my uncle who is a strong Republican supporter, and he knows that most of the populace will always vote Democrat. I said, that sounds like you don't want every person to have a vote. He said "Of course. One man, one vote is completely absurd." He was saying it with the knowledge that it went against the spirit of the constitution, and knowing nothing can be done about it, but he still believes it's silly that someone who doesn't understand economics by his definition has the same vote as his.

It was a real eye opener for me. I had never considered before that there is a sizeable portion of people who lament others' voting power. It gave me a bit of an insight as to the thinking of Romney's millionaire peers.

I'd have a little more respect for Romney and other GOPers if they'd say this in public. This secret video was the first time I've seen him speak like a real person -- no stumbling, no uncertainty. Of course, they know they'd never get elected, but that's the point: don't try to gain power via dishonesty and hiding.
 
onadesertedisland said:
Is this really derailing into a discussion of morals regarding third world capitalist exploitation? It is wrong to drive rural communities into ruin by tempting the youth to run to the cities and factories for a wage living.

The labor shifts to the city, leaving subsistence farming to fail, and subsequently creating a system of dependency upon which the capitalists know they can abuse the system through long hours and poor salaries.

The unnatural rapid progression from agricultural to export-based industrial is unhealthy for the entire planet outside of the few who obscenely profit from the violent imbalance of power.

How can anyone defend this?
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China will grow a middle class because of this, India will be next, etc. It is how we grew as a country, it will be how other countries grow. It sucks, but it is the way of the world.
 
Battersea Power Station said:
It was a real eye opener for me. I had never considered before that there is a sizeable portion of people who lament others' voting power.
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Is this unusual? I'm routinely irritated by the idea that people who have no idea about anything will be casting votes based on said ignorance. It doesn't matter if they're voting for the better candidate if the only reason they're voting for them is because of some manipulative add campaign or because they thought the man on the poster was handsome.
 
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