Is GAF too strict?
- Thread starter Kraftwerk
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FO-totality
Poet Centuriate
There are one to two I have in mind, for different reasons, but I don't think it'd do me any favors just name dropping them here and now. It's not for reasons that I found them bad posters or something that would require Stumpokapow's suggest of PM to them or another mod, they simply just grate against me for one reason or another, reasons that if they were any other user I could put there for my own reasons, as is the purpose of personal ignore lists.
And yes, I understand it would probably be a big undertaking. I was just curious as to the reasoning behind why one couldn't.
Stumpokapow
listen to the mad man
I wanted to respond to TToB's comment about snarky ban messages. By and large we've gotten better at using descriptive messages instead of snippy ones. You'll have to take me at my word, unfortunately, but we really have. Circa 2005-2007 or so most ban messages were pretty insulting and self-congratulatory. These days, largely stoic and informational.
I make sure to include past ban history and rule references when I can.
RE: ignoring mods--that would only work if we had separate accounts for moderation purposes and personal posting purposes. Besides the additional burden that poses, I actually think it's good for the community that the two are intertwined and it serves to keep mods trying to contribute positively since they know their regular posting reflects on the staff and moderation even if they don't want to.
I make sure to include past ban history and rule references when I can.
RE: ignoring mods--that would only work if we had separate accounts for moderation purposes and personal posting purposes. Besides the additional burden that poses, I actually think it's good for the community that the two are intertwined and it serves to keep mods trying to contribute positively since they know their regular posting reflects on the staff and moderation even if they don't want to.
FO-totality
Poet Centuriate
I understand where you are coming from why things are as they are, but bad posts are not what I was talking about.
I was talking issues of where I, personally, find the posting style of certain mods annoying, but not necessarily wrong or bad posts or reasons that I feel I need to openly or privately call them out, especially since my opinion of them is probably the minority and they have many people who like them for the reasons I dislike them, and I can imagine some mods, human as they are, do not take criticism well, as is often a flaw of mine. I would simply like to just ignore them and move on.
I know it's probably not ideal and I just have to suck it up, but I felt like should open the topic up a little more.
The Faceless Master
Member
the additional work of a single mouse click every time there's an important post? it adds up. it's a lot of extra work just for you to not just mentally ignore a certain mod.
ShinNL
Member
No offense, but there's a great disparity between mods: those who go insane with power and those who don't. The oldest of the oldest, the chief of chiefs, they don't change. They ooze an aura of peace. But like you for example, you've changed a lot from before you were a mod, to when you started as a mod and how you are now as a mod. Not saying you were bad at any stage, but by using this example you can't assume every other mod will stay completely neutral and generally stay 'a good person' like you are. We're all human after all. Everyone has different beliefs and from time to time, one of those 'unacceptable' beliefs will surface over the general NeoGAF's standards.
I'm one of the few people who actually liked Amir0x for example, because he kept things real (the editing is really a minor offense) in the way he posted and acted.
I'm not gonna be unreasonable and say what a mod should be or shouldn't be. My favorite type of people are just down-to-earth people. When I witness someone who holds a strong unpopular opinion and then tweak their sentences in a way that it doesn't break the ToS, that annoys me. Especially if it's a continuous string of those kind of posts, hiding behind a red name. It feels like you're being baited into a one-way trap.
I really like your arguments Stump, but I just think it's wrong. You seem to have way higher standards for yourself than other mods (at first I thought you wanted to prove yourself as a good mod, but after a while I realized it's just your personality).
BadAss2961
Member
Why can't we have our Kanye sex tape thread? It was getting good. 
ShinNL
Member
Uhhh haha. I was actually thinking of you as the first example when I wrote that sentence, you know :|
Anyway, I was re-reading the thread that made me dislike a certain mod, because I was worried that my feelings were out of place and maybe some of my words seem really harsh in this thread. But nope. The thread is just as extreme as I remember and just as aggravating as I remember, to know that such a person is a mod. Plus now I have the feeling that some people who were also from that thread know exactly what I'm talking about. Please don't list names, as least not in conjunction with my stories. My beliefs are that if I want(ed) action taken, I should've acted right then and there. Now I'm just bitter about it (which is why I'm sad I can't ignore this mod, because I cringe every time I see that person post), but I really really don't like going after something in the past.
GrotesqueBeauty
Banned
GAF isn't necessarily too strict, but at times it's too arbitrary. Quite a few things explicitly frowned upon in the TOS are allowed to slide, especially on the gaming side imo. On the other hand I find there are occasionally mods prone to stretched interpretations or knee jerk reactions leading to bans for stuff that's ambiguous or largely a matter of taste/opinion. I don't get bent out of shape when I slip up and get called on technicalities (juxtaposition of this game > that game based on scores in review threads for example), but there are definitely times where it comes across more vindictive and the ban appears to stem primarily from a difference in opinion or over perceived tone rather than any hard and fast TOS violation. In those instances I've been left unimpressed with some of the more persnickety ban messages I've gotten, replete with whiffs of moral superiority, or the tacky need to throw in some jab or claim the last word anonymously, and without actually throwing any light on the subject at hand.
On the whole though I think GAF is generally more fair than most gaming forums, and the (mostly) higher than average quality of the discussions help play into a community vibe where ignorant trolls are swiftly disposed of and thoughtful earnest posters usually get by without too much of a hassle.
On the whole though I think GAF is generally more fair than most gaming forums, and the (mostly) higher than average quality of the discussions help play into a community vibe where ignorant trolls are swiftly disposed of and thoughtful earnest posters usually get by without too much of a hassle.
Why can't we have our Kanye sex tape thread? It was getting good.
Probably because as always they get out of hand.
Don't get me wrong, I love women, but GAF has a tendency to take it too far and then derail the entire thread.
Just like with the Shakira one.
FO-totality
Poet Centuriate
An "important post" would hardly be a constant occurrence, surely you can understand that it would be a single mouse click for that uncommon situation. It wouldn't be a page memo about how this need to be seen by all. It would hypothetically be one, simple click.
Shin Kojima
Banned
Is that "PC Master Race" crap banned yet? Because I really think it should be.
Shin Kojima
Banned
Thank you.
Why can't we have our Kanye sex tape thread? It was getting good.
I'm glad it was closed. Not because of the girl pics or the subject matter, but because it was simply embarrassing to see so many gaffers suddenly becoming gullible over the obviously false and deliberately sensationalist idea of a married "18" year old who decides to make sex tapes.
I mean, this is the forum that will scrutinize every word Reggie and Iwata say and every picture Nomura does for a flaw to exploit...yet reason goes out the window when a nice bum comes around.
We're better than this, guys!
Soneet, you probably realize this already, but it is rather difficult to respond to such nebulous accusations of perfidy.
But all my posts are important to me.
In all seriousness, though, I think that what Stumples talked about just now with you is important. EviLore has talked about how moderators were chosen and what qualities he looked for, and I think this is important:
So as I understand it, at least, part of one's role as a moderator is to try to positively influence discussions. It does not facilitate that process when we allow users to put us on Ignore except for "important posts", and it sort of ignores the fact that from our perspective our "normal posts" are also important in their own way.
I am not suggesting that we are perfect at this by any means, mind you, but I think it is the ideal.
But all my posts are important to me.
In all seriousness, though, I think that what Stumples talked about just now with you is important. EviLore has talked about how moderators were chosen and what qualities he looked for, and I think this is important:
So as I understand it, at least, part of one's role as a moderator is to try to positively influence discussions. It does not facilitate that process when we allow users to put us on Ignore except for "important posts", and it sort of ignores the fact that from our perspective our "normal posts" are also important in their own way.
I am not suggesting that we are perfect at this by any means, mind you, but I think it is the ideal.
Soneet, you probably realize this already, but it is rather difficult to respond to such nebulous accusations of perfidy.
But all my posts are important to me.
In all seriousness, though, I think that what Stumples talked about just now with you is important. EviLore has talked about how moderators were chosen and what qualities he looked for, and I think this is important:
So as I understand it, at least, part of one's role as a moderator is to try to positively influence discussions. It does not facilitate that process when we allow users to put on his Ignore except for "important posts", and it sort of ignores the fact that from our perspective our "normal posts" are also important in their own way.
I am not suggesting that we are perfect at this by any means, mind you, but I think it is the ideal.
Omg, totally using that now.
Dark Octave
Banned
PXG recently got banned for calling Romney a cocksucker (I believe that to be the reason). People start getting offended: "what's wrong with sucking cock!?". Really silly imo.
If everyone all of a sudden has a problem with the word, the mods could have simply let PXG know that it's no longer cool to use that word on NeoGaf.
If that is not why he was banned, then sorry for bringing this up.
If everyone all of a sudden has a problem with the word, the mods could have simply let PXG know that it's no longer cool to use that word on NeoGaf.
If that is not why he was banned, then sorry for bringing this up.
FO-totality
Poet Centuriate
Soneet, you probably realize this already, but it is rather difficult to respond to such nebulous accusations of perfidy.
But all my posts are important to me.
In all seriousness, though, I think that what Stumples talked about just now with you is important. EviLore has talked about how moderators were chosen and what qualities he looked for, and I think this is important:
So as I understand it, at least, part of one's role as a moderator is to try to positively influence discussions. It does not facilitate that process when we allow users to put on his Ignore except for "important posts", and it sort of ignores the fact that from our perspective our "normal posts" are also important in their own way.
I am not suggesting that we are perfect at this by any means, mind you, but I think it is the ideal.
Understandable. This is more the answer I was looking for. I mean, I still am heavily annoyed by a couple of mods, but this is a more clear cut answer than what Stumps was repeating.
Is there any way to potentially set up like an anonymous feedback system, like a GAF mod versions of those "How am I driving?" stickers?
Also: Where can I find a list of who all is an admin/mod? I feel like I know the roster fairly well, but now and again I see a mod who I don't think I've ever seen and it makes me wonder if there are more I don't see.
ShinNL
Member
Great clarification, it's also how I see almost every mod as well.Soneet, you probably realize this already, but it is rather difficult to respond to such nebulous accusations of perfidy.
But all my posts are important to me.
In all seriousness, though, I think that what Stumples talked about just now with you is important. EviLore has talked about how moderators were chosen and what qualities he looked for, and I think this is important:
So as I understand it, at least, part of one's role as a moderator is to try to positively influence discussions. It does not facilitate that process when we allow users to put on his Ignore except for "important posts", and it sort of ignores the fact that from our perspective our "normal posts" are also important in their own way.
I am not suggesting that we are perfect at this by any means, mind you, but I think it is the ideal.
I personally think this has been a good thread, because mods and admins participated giving answers. I believe almost all GAF members (especially older regulars) also appreciate how GAF handles things.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showgroups.php
The link's on the front page - "view forum leaders"
And oh, thanks to Hikotage for the username change.
Steve Youngblood
Member
Hmm... I neither know nor care if that's actually the reason why he was banned. However, if that is the reason, I don't find it particularly perplexing.
FO-totality
Poet Centuriate
Damn, I was right. I don't know if I just post in the wrong threads but there are indeed mods who I didn't even know existed.
lastflowers
Banned
I literally had absolutely no clue that 'tranny' was offensive. I'll make sure I do not keep it in my vernacular, though the times i've said it could probably be counted on my hands.
If PGX was banned for a post in which he called Romney a cocksucker, it was more likey due to the context of the insult rather than because he used that particular word. Generally speaking, slagging people off is frowned upon; and the more vitriolic you are, the more likely you are to get banned.
Maybe he just finished a Deadwood marathon before making that post. After watching that show I used 'cocksucker' in every other sentence, I couldn't help it.
You know Amirox got demodded, right?
TheGreatDivide
Banned
Is water wet? Discuss.
Clearly, you don't know water_wendi.
Ravensmash
Member
Wait, why are 'Bitch' and 'Cunt' banned? I've heard things about the latter, but wasn't sure about the former, especially because of the varying contexts that the word can be used.
Edit: I'm guessing it's something to do with gendered insults or derogatory slang for female genitals, right? But in a modern context these words are rarely used for that reason.
Edit: I'm guessing it's something to do with gendered insults or derogatory slang for female genitals, right? But in a modern context these words are rarely used for that reason.
It's really, really wet.
TheGreatDivide
Banned
If you call a man a John Terry you're actually insulting all women and are sexist. Duh.
Lol. That's my very favorite thing about Mumei.
I think that if you reread his post you will see that he was asking about "the former" (bitch) and not "the latter" (cunt). We have had this question come up a few times.
But since you brought up the other one:
The argument I presented was not that any particular individual was sexist or misogynistic because they said cunt. I would not make a conclusion like that on so flimsy a basis. And the argument was that it is an implicit insult, in the same way that referring to a straight man as a faggot is still an implicit insult to gay men. I was not arguing for intent.
I had thought at the time that I was fairly clear about what I was saying, but since I have seen this representation of the argument repeatedly since I made those posts, I can only conclude that I was not as clear as I thought I was.
It's not listening to music? You should PM me when you have time again.
TheGreatDivide
Banned
I disagree with your opinion. But it's completely unworthy of arguing.
I think at this point it would be better if we actually brought back the Hot Women/Men threads and stuck them in Community. That way posters could just stick their pictures there instead of turning every thread remotely related to an attractive person into one of those threads roughly every 18 hours.
This was a legitimate question, btw.
TheGreatDivide
Banned
Is twat a ban worthy word?
For example "man, Hitler was a total twat".
For example "man, Hitler was a total twat".
No, but talking shit about Hitler is. Weird rule.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Can we please ban gaf gold jokes?
TheGreatDivide
Banned
In my world twat means vagina as much as cunt. Which is to say, it used to but now basically is just a strong insult.
charlequin
Banned
We're not the Oxford University Press and we're not going to spend our time maintaining a canonical list of offensive words.
Maintaining a list takes time and it creates the implication that words not included in the list are automatically appropriate, which is quite problematic. (The word referenced from the Kanye thread is not something I ever would have thought to put on such a list proactively, for example, but which I still recognized as inappropriate when I saw it.)Our moderation direction over the last few years has been in actively moving away from comprehensive lists of verboten subjects and towards broad, holistic definitions of what kinds of behavior are inappropriate. I would expect this trend to continue, which means, in part, that we're not going to start listing out inappropriate slurs for people and it's the responsibility of individual posters to find out if the words they're using are potentially problematic.
black_vegeta
Member
Do you guys know how long this junior status lasts for? Thanks
I was juniorized years ago, stayed juniorized for 2 years I believe. I kept on asking Hitokage and other mods on how to be "memberized" again, but didn't get much help and lost hope. From then, I just tried to be on my best behavior and contribute to the community as much as I could.
Eventually this happened not too long ago when I recently asked about it again...
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=42352979&highlight=#post42352979
and
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=42354385&postcount=2393
Good luck!
^_^
Sorry, I don't remember that, but hopefully I've made up for that in a small way.
Have you ever been to the UK or know the history of their language? Twat is highly offensive depending on where you use it.
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