Season's Beatings: Ascension | Fighting Game Tournament | Sep 28-30 2012

And so it was written!

id9W00oRCVYa1.png
 
Kadey said:
That's not unique viewers. That's total viewers across all existence of the stream. Streamer themselves can refresh their own stream and the count will go up. Only Twitch guys would know unique viewers.
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I see. I'm sure that's what he was referring to, though.
 
Karsticles said:
As someone who:
1) Play Marvel.
2) Has used Doom extensively.
3) Uses Dormammu extensively.
4) Hates Hidden Missiles.

I do not think that is the proper nerf for the assist. It would simply never get used then, because it's too hard to protect for as long as it's out there.

A good nerf to the assist would be Doom taking another 10-15 frames before he starts calling the missiles. So, if someone does call + teleport, you have a good opportunity to dash back and hit him. If someone calls the assist randomly, hyper punishes have some meaning.

Alternatively, they could knock the number of missiles it calls out again. In Vanilla he called out 2 more than he does now. They could kick it down to 4 missiles so the assist doesn't provide much lockdown.
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Honestly, taking away hidden missiles, Doom still has 2 great assists in Beam and Rocks and that's more than a majority of the cast has anyway so... And I honestly think hidden missiles goes unpunished more often than not so why not make them disappear on hit. If anything it would open up people's minds more into trying new different assists.
 
ismk said:
This might be the last Season's Beatings? What? NOOOOO! :(

The tournament was so hype

Also, good shit for ConsoleCombat for having a really solid stream
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Very thankful for the stream and organizers who put this together but I thought this major was boring as fuck. That's just my opinion though
 
racketpunch said:
Very thankful for the stream and organizers who put this together but I thought this major was boring as fuck. That's just my opinion though
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I don't think it was boring, but rather it didn't live up to the usual Season Beatings hype. I think the venue being bigger had a lot to do with it, since you lose that gritty arcade atmosphere.

It did have some nice highlights like Chris G vs Champ. The first 19 matches were wonder it was literally 10-9 before Chris pulled away.
 
Karsticles said:
As someone who:
1) Play Marvel.
2) Has used Doom extensively.
3) Uses Dormammu extensively.
4) Hates Hidden Missiles.

I do not think that is the proper nerf for the assist. It would simply never get used then, because it's too hard to protect for as long as it's out there.

A good nerf to the assist would be Doom taking another 10-15 frames before he starts calling the missiles. So, if someone does call + teleport, you have a good opportunity to dash back and hit him. If someone calls the assist randomly, hyper punishes have some meaning.

Alternatively, they could knock the number of missiles it calls out again. In Vanilla he called out 2 more than he does now. They could kick it down to 4 missiles so the assist doesn't provide much lockdown.
Click to expand...

"Too hard to protect" is an overstatement. Call Doom Missiles, teleport to other side- Bam assist protected. It is already a great assist and even if it didn't combo break, it still provides pressure, combo extensions, and OTGs.

I heard that it was a myth that missiles in Vanilla shot 8.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=APErsC7ULS0#t=15s
I count 6 on the screen and then the combo counter jumps up 6 (well it jumps up 7 but I assume that the 7th hit is from the hyper).
 
SmokeMaxX said:
"Too hard to protect" is an overstatement. Call Doom Missiles, teleport to other side- Bam assist protected. It is already a great assist and even if it didn't combo break, it still provides pressure, combo extensions, and OTGs.

I heard that it was a myth that missiles in Vanilla shot 8.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=APErsC7ULS0#t=15s
I count 6 on the screen and then the combo counter jumps up 6 (well it jumps up 7 but I assume that the 7th hit is from the hyper).
Click to expand...

not everybody has a teleport.
 
EarlyEarly said:
Honestly, taking away hidden missiles, Doom still has 2 great assists in Beam and Rocks and that's more than a majority of the cast has anyway so... And I honestly think hidden missiles goes unpunished more often than not so why not make them disappear on hit. If anything it would open up people's minds more into trying new different assists.
Click to expand...
The reason Hidden Missiles is picked so often is the game is really lacking in good anti-air assists. If you want an anti-air, these are all of your options that aren't garbage:
Hidden Missiles
Vajra
Jam Session
Mystic Ray

Four assists. Of these four, Mystic Ray is attached to a character that most people consider one of the worst in the game, and he can't even operate without assists backing him. So, practically, there are 3 options in a 50 member cast for an anti-air assist.

Compare this to the number of full screen horizontal assists in the game:
Unibeam.
EM Disruptor
Psionic Blaster
Bolts of Balthakk
Mystic Ray (it covers everything)
Plasma Beam
Aim Master L
Dagger Toss
Greyhound
Get em' Missile!
Sentinel Force
Mighty Spark

Just look at those options.

Hidden Missiles is partly so popular because it covers a huge void in this game. Strong anti-airs are the only real way to deal with some characters, like Zero.

Several characters have in-built moves that could be good anti-airs if Capcom could pull the stick out of their ass and give everyone good assists. Some ready-to-go anti-airs:
Energy Javelin
Purification (give it tracking)
Shoryuken S
Charged Voomerang
Crossbow (Golden, especially)
Meteor Smash (give it tracking)
Dagger of Denak (the M version sucks)

If Capcom put these all in as assists, I guarantee that you'd see fewer people using Hidden Missiles, because there would be other options to fill the void. That's not to say that Hidden Missiles isn't too good, but there are other problems compounding this issue.

MvC2 had an incredible list of anti-airs. I want my Inferno and Captain Corridor back.

SmokeMaxX said:
"Too hard to protect" is an overstatement. Call Doom Missiles, teleport to other side- Bam assist protected. It is already a great assist and even if it didn't combo break, it still provides pressure, combo extensions, and OTGs.

I heard that it was a myth that missiles in Vanilla shot 8.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=APErsC7ULS0#t=15s
I count 6 on the screen and then the combo counter jumps up 6 (well it jumps up 7 but I assume that the 7th hit is from the hyper).
Click to expand...
Teleports have frames on them. In Vanilla, it wasn't even possible to get a Hidden Missile call off as Dormammu vs. Wolverine + Akuma. You were completely smothered. This is a different game, but the point is that "just teleport" isn't as easy as you're making it sound.

Moreover, biasing the assist toward teleporting characters would compound the current balance issues in the game. The teleporting characters already have so much going for them. There's no reason to encourage people to pick them more.
 
Honestly, in your head, you may use missiles for the anti air, but from what I see the vast majority of the people only have it as either a combo breaker, extender or lockdown.
 
EarlyEarly said:
Honestly, in your head, you may use missiles for the anti air, but from what I see the vast majority of the people only have it as either a combo breaker, extender or lockdown. And, while they may not be as good, I'd like to count "shoryken type" assists as anti air.
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Trust me, the anti-air aspect is extremely important. I play Morrigan and Dormammu, so I'm very familiar with Hidden Missiles. :-)

Shoryuken-type assists aren't anti-airs as I'm defining the term. Here, I mean something like "an assist that will make Dr. Doom think twice about sitting in the top left corner corner firing Photon Shot for 20 seconds."
 
Ragingnight said:
not everybody has a teleport.
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That's just one solution. Another is just not spamming missiles. Or use it when it's safe to use. None of my characters have a teleport either, but I bet I could figure out how to use a nerfed Doom Missiles without him getting bopped. Hell, I pretty much spam Magneto's Hypergrav assist and he only rarely gets bopped.
Karsticles said:
The reason Hidden Missiles is picked so often is the game is really lacking in good anti-air assists. If you want an anti-air, these are all of your options that aren't garbage:
Hidden Missiles
Vajra
Jam Session
Mystic Ray

Four assists. Of these four, Mystic Ray is attached to a character that most people consider one of the worst in the game, and he can't even operate without assists backing him. So, practically, there are 3 options in a 50 member cast for an anti-air assist.

Compare this to the number of full screen horizontal assists in the game:
Unibeam.
EM Disruptor
Psionic Blaster
Bolts of Balthakk
Mystic Ray (it covers everything)
Plasma Beam
Aim Master L
Dagger Toss
Greyhound
Get em' Missile!
Sentinel Force
Mighty Spark

Just look at those options.

Hidden Missiles is partly so popular because it covers a huge void in this game. Strong anti-airs are the only real way to deal with some characters, like Zero.

Several characters have in-built moves that could be good anti-airs if Capcom could pull the stick out of their ass and give everyone good assists. Some ready-to-go anti-airs:
Energy Javelin
Purification (give it tracking)
Shoryuken S
Charged Voomerang
Crossbow (Golden, especially)
Meteor Smash (give it tracking)
Dagger of Denak (the M version sucks)

If Capcom put these all in as assists, I guarantee that you'd see fewer people using Hidden Missiles, because there would be other options to fill the void. That's not to say that Hidden Missiles isn't too good, but there are other problems compounding this issue.

MvC2 had an incredible list of anti-airs. I want my Inferno and Captain Corridor back.


Teleports have frames on them. In Vanilla, it wasn't even possible to get a Hidden Missile call off as Dormammu vs. Wolverine + Akuma. You were completely smothered. This is a different game, but the point is that "just teleport" isn't as easy as you're making it sound.

Moreover, biasing the assist toward teleporting characters would compound the current balance issues in the game. The teleporting characters already have so much going for them. There's no reason to encourage people to pick them more.
Click to expand...
I disagree with a lot of what you're saying. Task up arrows aren't that bad to clear space/anti-air and neither is Iron Man repulsor. Of course those aren't amazing options for various reasons- but at the same time, to say the primary reason people use Doom Missiles is as an anti-air is pretty dishonest. If that were the case, just have the missiles go away when Doom gets hit. In addition, I wouldn't necessarily consider Doom Missiles an anti-air. I'd consider it more of a versatile lockdown assist. It's usefulness stems from the fact that it tracks and pins the opponent towards the ground. If they're in the air, it'll push them towards the ground, but it's not designed as an attack that's going to primarily hit air opponents.

As for protecting the assist- Teleporting is one option. A lot of characters can set up a safe teleport in the middle of a blockstring. You don't have to do that though. You can fly or command dash through the opponent or double jump. Or you can do what a lot of other characters have to do and only call it on character kills/knockdowns.

Hidden Missiles is just too good of an assist. It does pretty much everything; it's attached to a great character (who already has 2 other great assists); it doesn't go away when he gets hit; it combo breaks; it locks down, it OTGs (both on the way up AND on the way down), it tracks... I mean, I'm sure I'm missing a lot of things.
What are the negatives? Pretty much just that it takes forever to come out (which is a plus to a lot of characters). No other assist in the game allows me to get a double hyper charging star and since I do it in the middle of my combo, the assist taking forever is actually a Pro rather than a Con.
 
I love watching Chris G meticulously dismantle his opponents, but even I can only watch it for so many hours before I've seen enough. Running top 16 on Sunday instead of just top 8 and having everything finish so late didn't help. There were definitely some great highlights though. Chris G vs FChamp was everything I wanted it to be.

Did you guys know that Yipes also does bathroom commentary? Well, now you do. As in, he commentates while taking a shit, about him taking a shit, in a way that only he can. Just thought you should know.
 
Sixfortyfive said:
I just happened to be in the bathroom next to the ballroom at the same time he was. I dunno if I want to bother relaying it, being crude toilet humor and all, but goddamn I was losing it, lol.
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was anybody in there with him or was he just talking to himself?
 
Had to go to bed after AE losers finals. Really happy that K-Brad manged to stay calm and beat the world champ again, I've liked what I've seen out of him ever since Civil War 4 after he beat Wolfkrone, great play and Cammy puts another one under her belt.

Marvel was really anticlimactic, it was just bunch of stomps after stomps. Yipes stomps moons, Flocker stomps Yipes, Champ stomps yipes, Rog stomps champ, Flocker stomps rog and then Chris G completely destroys flocker.

Doesn't help that there were about 7 people watching the whole time like it was casuals at 10 am, totally the opposite of last year, especially during that crazy Ricky/Poongko match.

The Champ/Chris MM was hype as fuck though, so their is at least that.


GabbyJay said:
This is the inverse of EVO.

No hype in KoF or Marvel finals, AE finals full of hype.
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Haven't thought of it like that, but this was like a photo negative of what EVO was.
 
My wife, who knows very little about the game, watched a bit of the stream with me last night.

Her top observations:

1.) Morrigan seems so cheap.
2.) Doctor Doom can hit you too many times.
3.) Seeing the same eight characters over and over is lame.
 
Mister Wilhelm said:
My wife, who knows very little about the game, watched a bit of the stream with me last night.

Her top observations:

1.) Morrigan seems so cheap.
2.) Doctor Doom can hit you too many times.
3.) Seeing the same eight characters over and over is lame.
Click to expand...

You should of stared at her in silence and just yell out ITS MAHVEL BABY at her face
 
Went to bed once Yipes was out, and it was clear Flocker was going to bead PR Rog, yet didn't have a clue how to take down Morrigan/Doom. It's like back in the day when I would leave a bar showing a WWE PPV before the main event cause I knew Stone Cold would win anyways.

Still, really good tournament. My hat goes off to the ConsoleCombat guys, did a fine job.
 
the only nerf to Hidden Missiles that would be fair;

Less Missiles

Can someone explain what the vortex is in SSF4 when referred to Akuma or other "vortex" characters?
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a character that puts you in a constant knock down pressure/mix ups. Usually involving cross ups and throws
 
Obviously, but then there would've been a lot of salt afterwards as well.
It's clear that since Evo, the CafeID guys have leveled considerably more than the SoCal people, and it's also evident that Bala does terribly in longer sets against them (he went 2 games at Evo, but then he got reset, and only won a single game afterwards, but he did really well in during the Korea vs Mexico exhibition).

And you can't take anything away from Lacid either, he's proven that he's definitely a better player than Bala.
The CafeID guys are clearly ahead of everyone else by a good margin.
 
It's too bad the KOF scene is dying in Korea; both Lacid and MadKOF mentioned they were thinking about quitting in post-match shout outs. I think they were hoping more people would pick up the game after the EVO victory.
 
Wolfgunblood Garopa said:
When you get knocked down, a vortex is wake up pressure that makes you guess what to defend and the wrong guess puts you right back in the same bad position.
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It's definitely present in Marvel as well. A great example is when Filipino Champ gets you in a Magneto combo and makes you guess between breaking a TAC (Doom swag combo into death) or breaking a reset (more Magneto combo into death). It's kind of the same thing with Zero as well, only he does it to your entire team with his incoming mixups. Once one character gets touched, that tends to be game over.
 
Cosmo Clock 21 said:
It's too bad the KOF scene is dying in Korea; both Lacid and MadKOF mentioned they were thinking about quitting in post-match shout outs. I think they were hoping more people would pick up the game after the EVO victory.
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KOF13 dying around the world is probably one of the greatest justices in the FGC
 
JeTmAn81 said:
It's definitely present in Marvel as well. A great example is when Filipino Champ gets you in a Magneto combo and makes you guess between breaking a TAC (Doom swag combo into death) or breaking a reset (more Magneto combo into death). It's kind of the same thing with Zero as well, only he does it to your entire team with his incoming mixups. Once one character gets touched, that tends to be game over.
Click to expand...

This is why it's not really too useful of a term. For me it kind of made sense with Fuerte and Akuma, now it could refer to just about any setup that creates a 50/50.
 
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