2012 First U.S. Presidential Debate |OT| OK Libya... We need a leader, not a reader.

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You could taste Obama's exhaustion when he realized (sometime around the 25 minute mark) that Romney's plan was to simply pretend all of the things he said or are in his platform don't exist.

Like, how do you prepare for that. Do you sit there and have a contingency plan for if your opponent is simply making things up as he goes?

Also, if I were Obama, I would have worked PBS or Sesame Street into every answer. Mitt gave Obama WEAK SPOT for MASSIVE DAMAGE within 20 seconds of opening his mouth, and Obama never capitalized. Seriously, that comment could be worked into every topic they discussed tonight, it was instantly a social media favorite, and... nothing.
 
So I'm watching the Erin Burnett thing... 15 said Romney was the winner, 5 said Obama was the winner and then 8 switched from Romney to Obama and 8 switched from Obama to Romney? The fuck?

So 3 people were like, man, Romney really won that debate, I better vote Obama.

Huh?
I know it's not necessarily the same people, I'm just saying... shit is weird as fuck
 

HylianTom

Banned
Repubs dont actually care about the issues. They fully endorse any rape and pillaging done in the effort of furthering the chance of a Repub victory. Repubs are ecstatic tonight Mitt seemed presentable, irregardless of what his stances are. Mostly they do this in part because they know damn well what will happen once the dust clears, they just stomach all the lies to get there.

Excellent.

I'd prefer them to have some degree of hope heading into Election Day. Their utter despair in losing after narrowing the gap will be so much more satisfying. :)
 

RDreamer

Member
Not that Romney has a shot at it. But debates can totally turn the tide if done right. Reagan and how he handled his debate is a huge reason why he went from trailing to dominating. He owned the debates

Hd55q.png
 
As a Democrat, I think Romney was the better speaker tonight. But I wouldn't trust him with our country, economy, or people. Also, Kerry won the debates too. He still lost against Bush
 
Repubs dont actually care about the issues. They fully endorse any rape and pillaging done in the effort of furthering the chance of a Repub victory. Repubs are ecstatic tonight Mitt seemed presentable, irregardless of what his stances are. Mostly they do this in part because they know damn well what will happen once the dust clears, they just stomach all the lies to get there.

wat.
 

bounchfx

Member
I'm confused at how people are judging at who 'won' the debate. Is it just by keeping composure and reading canned lines without a slip? Or is it with truthful information that is informative and gives you a direction of which candidate you'd prefer to vote for?

I don't think either 'won' to be honest, as a majority of what I saw was them slinging bullshit at each other while they both call the other out 'but that's not true but that's not true'.

If you judge it by pure uninterrupted (literally) speaking ability, it would be Romney. I don't even think for a minute that he paused to think about what he should say. On the other hand, Obama had pauses, but at the same time I don't know if he was struggling to speak or, on the other hand, actually thinking about his replies.


Either way, I'm disappointed that either of them could not show enough respect to the moderator, and moreso that the moderator didn't have any balls to cut them off. if it's 2 minutes, fucking stick with it and shut their mic's off.

edit: lastly, my favorite part is people on both sides saying 'x candidate totally won, no contest!'
 
So I'm watching the Erin Burnett thing... 15 said Romney was the winner, 5 said Obama was the winner and then 8 switched from Romney to Obama and 8 switched from Obama to Romney? The fuck?

So 3 people were like, man, Romney really won that debate, I better vote Obama.

Huh?
I know it's not necessarily the same people, I'm just saying... shit is weird as fuck

Well, one can only hope people are smart enough to make the distinction between who they think "wins" a debate based on general appearance, and who they think has the better policies (or the ones they agree on).


That's probably idle hope though.
 

apana

Member
You could taste Obama's exhaustion when he realized (sometime around the 25 minute mark) that Romney's plan was to simply pretend all of the things he said or are in his platform don't exist.

Like, how do you prepare for that. Do you sit there and have a contingency plan for if your opponent is simply making things up as he goes?

Also, if I were Obama, I would have worked PBS or Sesame Street into every answer. Mitt gave Obama WEAK SPOT for MASSIVE DAMAGE within 20 seconds of opening his mouth, and Obama never capitalized. Seriously, that comment could be worked into every topic they discussed tonight, it was instantly a social media favorite, and... nothing.

Mitt Romney does this every single time and tons of people have called him out on it easily. McCain steamrolled him just by being an angry old man who kept ingnoring everything Mitt Romney would say during the debates and calling him a flip flopper.
 

Xdrive05

Member
Neogaf liberals who felt sufficiently burned in 2010, isn't there some wild, itching scar left over deep within you that secretly wants Obama to blow it? You know, that one indignant nerve end that reminds you of your firm conviction that the Democrats will always and forever be willing and able to snatch defeat from the jaws of certain victory?

What a silly, naive and fat political party.
 

Averon

Member
Carter had a massive Foreign policy disaster played out on TV and had approval ratings in the mid to high 30s. It couldn't have taken much to bury him in the debate. None of this applies to Obama. Obama has none of those weights tying him down. I mean, the closest thing you have to that is the consulate attack in Libya and Romney fucked that up by making his rushed comments.
 

Wall

Member
I think people were underestimating Romney going into the debates and are now overrating his performance. Romney managed to string together a coherent argument while avoiding having a freak out or insulting half the country, so people are impressed with him relative to how they previously viewed him. Unfortunately for Romney, there were several weaknesses in his performance that ultimately will prove fatal to what he hoped to accomplish in the debate: reverse the course of public opinion which had turned increasingly against him over the past month.

Romney often came across as both nervous and boorish. People are complimenting Romney for talking fast and seeming to yell, but he didn't come across as strong to me. His manner of speaking suggested desperation and exasperation. His delivery did improve towards the end of the debate, but throughout at least the first two thirds his manner of speaking was suggestive of someone who lacked confidence, was unsure of themselves, and was unsure of how others viewed them. It also is not a good thing for Romney that people perceived him as speaking more than President Obama even though the converse was true. The audiences' inaccurate perception likely was fueled by how fast Romney was speaking (which made him seem needy and nervous), and his inexplicable arguments with the moderator over time (if President Obama talked more than Romney did, why was the moderator arguing with Romney and not President Obama?). Regardless of the source of the audiences' inaccurate impression of who talked more, that Romney was the one who got into arguments with the moderator about talking too long and that the inaccurate impression of who was hogging the mike even exists contributed to the impression that Romney is a boor with poor social skills.

For evidence, we only need to look to the only two genuine moments in the debate: Jim Lehrer cutting off Romney when he tried to argue for more time, and President Obama eliciting sympathetic laughter from the audience after scolding Jim Lehrer when he was interrupted with five seconds of his time remaining. People also keep making a big deal about Romney seeming to be able to begin and end segments. That might have been a bad thing for President Obama, but combined with the other shortcomings in Romney's delivery, the structure of the debate seemed to convey the impression that President Obama, whatever his other shortcomings, was a man of respect with important things to say. Romney, by contrast, seemed to almost be begging for attention and approval. President Obama would offer a defense of his record and a description of his (somewhat limited and scattered) vision, while Romney sometimes seemed to almost whine from the peanut gallery. Romney looked amateurish and immature at times. President Obama looked, if not energetic........... Presidential.

Finally, and most fatally to Romney, he really failed to offer any details to his proposals. His main argument seemed to be the standard Republican rant against the federal government combined with attacks against President Obama for failing to turn the economy around. He also offered a somewhat bizarre defense against President Obama's attacks on what we all thought Romney's policies were. Romney simply said that what President Obama said he was going to do he wasn't actually going to do. He didn't say what he actually would do.
 

Evlar

Banned
Neogaf liberals who felt sufficiently burned in 2010, isn't there some wild, itching scar left over deep within you that secretly wants Obama to blow it? You know, that one indignant nerve end that reminds you of your firm conviction that the Democrats will always and forever be willing and able of snatching defeat from the jaws of certain victory?

What a silly, naive and fat political party.
Yeah, you so got me. It's gonna be 2010 forever.
 
Per GAF, Romney just secured winning the Presidency with 100% popular vote and 538-0 in the EC.

All on his way to becoming the Supreme Chancellor of the Universe.
 

oneils

Member
Neogaf liberals who felt sufficiently burned in 2010, isn't there some wild, itching scar left over deep within you that secretly wants Obama to blow it? You know, that one indignant nerve end that reminds you of your firm conviction that the Democrats will always and forever be willing and able to snatch defeat from the jaws of certain victory?

What a silly, naive and fat political party.

Does this post make sense? I probably should go to sleep, because I'm not sure what this is saying.
 

HylianTom

Banned
id prob say something like this too if my guy got sonned.

Enjoy tonight's consolation prize. I'll be enjoying a Ginsburg clone or two sitting on the high bench for a few decades. With a bit of luck, perhaps one of them will be replacing Scalia or Thomas. :)
 

hachi

Banned
Neogaf liberals who felt sufficiently burned in 2010, isn't there some wild, itching scar left over deep within you that secretly wants Obama to blow it? You know, that one indignant nerve end that reminds you of your firm conviction that the Democrats will always and forever be willing and able to snatch defeat from the jaws of certain victory?

What a silly, naive and fat political party.

You bastard. I happen to be a skinny, vegetarian liberal.
 
So 3 people were like, man, Romney really won that debate, I better vote Obama.

Nothing odd about it. You can think that Romney debated well that night but still believe his policies are shiite and vote against him. I think Romney debated well. But there is still no way I'd vote for the gay-hating science-denying war-mongering team to win.

Bush lost a bunch of debates but still won elections.

so neogaf is it safe to say that mitt romney is our new president?
No, he just had a good debate. That is all.
 
Per GAF, Romney just secured winning the Presidency with 100% popular vote and 538-0 in the EC.

All on his way to becoming the Supreme Chancellor of the Universe.

Don't group all gaffers into one character.

Reality is some people are freaking out, others are downplaying it, and others are perhaps on target as to what the exact impact of tonights debate is.
 
I think people were underestimating Romney going into the debates and are now overrating his performance. Romney managed to string together a coherent argument while avoiding having a freak out or insulting half the country, so people are impressed with him relative to how they previously viewed him. Unfortunately for Romney, there were several weaknesses in his performance that ultimately will prove fatal to what he hoped to accomplish in the debate: reverse the course of public opinion which had turned increasingly against him over the past month.

Romney often came across as both nervous and boorish. People are complimenting Romney for talking fast and seeming to yell, but he didn't come across as strong to me. His manner of speaking suggested desperation and exasperation. His delivery did improve towards the end of the debate, but throughout at least the first two thirds his manner of speaking was suggestive of someone who lacked confidence, was unsure of themselves, and was unsure of how others viewed them. It also is not a good thing for Romney that people perceived him as speaking more than President Obama even though the converse was true. The audiences' inaccurate perception likely was fueled by how fast Romney was speaking (which made him seem needy and nervous), and his inexplicable arguments with the moderator over time (if President Obama talked more than Romney did, why was the moderator arguing with Romney and not President Obama?). Regardless of the source of the audiences' inaccurate impression of who talked more, that Romney was the one who got into arguments with the moderator about talking too long and that the inaccurate impression of who was hogging the mike even exists contributed to the impression that Romney is a boor with poor social skills.

For evidence, we only need to look to the only two genuine moments in the debate: Jim Lehrer cutting off Romney when he tried to argue for more time, and President Obama eliciting sympathetic laughter from the audience after scolding Jim Lehrer when he was interrupted with five seconds of his time remaining. People also keep making a big deal about Romney seeming to be able to begin and end segments. That might have been a bad thing for President Obama, but combined with the other shortcomings in Romney's delivery, the structure of the debate seemed to convey the impression that President Obama, whatever his other shortcomings, was a man of respect with important things to say. Romney, by contrast, seemed to almost be begging for attention and approval. President Obama would offer a defense of his record and a description of his (somewhat limited and scattered) vision, while Romney sometimes seemed to almost whine from the peanut gallery. Romney looked amateurish and immature at times. President Obama looked, if not energetic........... Presidential.

Finally, and most fatally to Romney, he really failed to offer any details to his proposals. His main argument seemed to be the standard Republican rant against the federal government combined with attacks against President Obama for failing to turn the economy around. He also offered a somewhat bizarre defense against President Obama's attacks on what we all thought Romney's policies were. Romney simply said that what President Obama said he was going to do he wasn't actually going to do. He didn't say what he actually would do.

I've noticed some Republicans on CNN get "too" excited about the debate results. Forgetting that winning a debate helps but doesn't win elections. Even I can admit that Romney was the better debater. But that doesn't mean that I'm changing my vote from Obama. Things should clear down by tomorrow evening
 
I think people were underestimating Romney going into the debates and are now overrating his performance. Romney managed to string together a coherent argument while avoiding having a freak out or insulting half the country, so people are impressed with him relative to how they previously viewed him. Unfortunately for Romney, there were several weaknesses in his performance that ultimately will prove fatal to what he hoped to accomplish in the debate: reverse the course of public opinion which had turned increasingly against him over the past month.

Romney often came across as both nervous and boorish. People are complimenting Romney for talking fast and seeming to yell, but he didn't come across as strong to me. His manner of speaking suggested desperation and exasperation. His delivery did improve towards the end of the debate, but throughout at least the first two thirds his manner of speaking was suggestive of someone who lacked confidence, was unsure of themselves, and was unsure of how others viewed them. It also is not a good thing for Romney that people perceived him as speaking more than President Obama even though the converse was true. The audiences' inaccurate perception likely was fueled by how fast Romney was speaking (which made him seem needy and nervous), and his inexplicable arguments with the moderator over time (if President Obama talked more than Romney did, why was the moderator arguing with Romney and not President Obama?). Regardless of the source of the audiences' inaccurate impression of who talked more, that Romney was the one who got into arguments with the moderator about talking too long and that the inaccurate impression of who was hogging the mike even exists contributed to the impression that Romney is a boor with poor social skills.

For evidence, we only need to look to the only two genuine moments in the debate: Jim Lehrer cutting off Romney when he tried to argue for more time, and President Obama eliciting sympathetic laughter from the audience after scolding Jim Lehrer when he was interrupted with five seconds of his time remaining. People also keep making a big deal about Romney seeming to be able to begin and end segments. That might have been a bad thing for President Obama, but combined with the other shortcomings in Romney's delivery, the structure of the debate seemed to convey the impression that President Obama, whatever his other shortcomings, was a man of respect with important things to say. Romney, by contrast, seemed to almost be begging for attention and approval. President Obama would offer a defense of his record and a description of his (somewhat limited and scattered) vision, while Romney sometimes seemed to almost whine from the peanut gallery. Romney looked amateurish and immature at times. President Obama looked, if not energetic........... Presidential.

Finally, and most fatally to Romney, he really failed to offer any details to his proposals. His main argument seemed to be the standard Republican rant against the federal government combined with attacks against President Obama for failing to turn the economy around. He also offered a somewhat bizarre defense against President Obama's attacks on what we all thought Romney's policies were. Romney simply said that what President Obama said he was going to do he wasn't actually going to do. He didn't say what he actually would do.

W Bush set the bar so low he couldn't not pass it, which helped him a lot. Same dude is advising Romney.
 

~Kinggi~

Banned
Per GAF, Romney just secured winning the Presidency with 100% popular vote and 538-0 in the EC.

All on his way to becoming the Supreme Chancellor of the Universe.

I'd be for Supreme Chancellor if he dressed like some dude from Star Wars and wore a cool robe. He could give his Shister-grin at dinners.
 

Juice

Member
You could taste Obama's exhaustion when he realized (sometime around the 25 minute mark) that Romney's plan was to simply pretend all of the things he said or are in his platform don't exist.

Like, how do you prepare for that. Do you sit there and have a contingency plan for if your opponent is simply making things up as he goes?

Also, if I were Obama, I would have worked PBS or Sesame Street into every answer. Mitt gave Obama WEAK SPOT for MASSIVE DAMAGE within 20 seconds of opening his mouth, and Obama never capitalized. Seriously, that comment could be worked into every topic they discussed tonight, it was instantly a social media favorite, and... nothing.

Agreed. That's exactly how I read the night.

Put Obama in a crappy situation. His options were to muscle through it or call Romney an outright liar. The former put America to sleep and awarded Romney a victory. The latter would have risked his personal favorables.

He took the former route. I think he should have gone full blown L-word, but I probably underestimate the damage that the angry black man meme could do if well exploited :-(
 

strobogo

Banned
Romney endorsed Simpson-Bowles, even though his VP destroyed the entire deal. So why didn't Obama mention it? Why was Obama writing his next novel when Romney was speaking during a split screen debate?

He talked about how terrible it was near the begining of the debate, but later on when he was finally pressed on specifics on anything, he suggested he'd use ideas from it in his "plan". But didn't give specifics on what he'd use from it. He wasn't called on it at all, which drove me crazy while watching. The whole "Obamacare is the worst....But it is based on and is exactly the same as what you did as governor...."well, it is a great idea, but it's terrible when you do it" was hilarious, too.

Maybe Obama was distracted by thinking about the anniversary sex he was going to have right after the debate. Which makes me think, has anyone on Fox News made a big deal about him starting out the debate by talking about his anniversary? I figured Hannity would make a huge deal out of it. For sure Rush will bring it up tomorrow.

The Bush vs Clinton thing is pretty apt, since Obama outright framed it that way. Which makes sense to me. GWB is still pretty toxic. He's like the Candyman. No one will even say his name for fear that he'll taint everything. Obama doesn't even say his name, just in case.
 

Measley

Junior Member
I think people were underestimating Romney going into the debates and are now overrating his performance. Romney managed to string together a coherent argument while avoiding having a freak out or insulting half the country, so people are impressed with him relative to how they previously viewed him. Unfortunately for Romney, there were several weaknesses in his performance that ultimately will prove fatal to what he hoped to accomplish in the debate: reverse the course of public opinion which had turned increasingly against him over the past month.

Romney often came across as both nervous and boorish. People are complimenting Romney for talking fast and seeming to yell, but he didn't come across as strong to me. His manner of speaking suggested desperation and exasperation. His delivery did improve towards the end of the debate, but throughout at least the first two thirds his manner of speaking was suggestive of someone who lacked confidence, was unsure of themselves, and was unsure of how others viewed them. It also is not a good thing for Romney that people perceived him as speaking more than President Obama even though the converse was true. The audiences' inaccurate perception likely was fueled by how fast Romney was speaking (which made him seem needy and nervous), and his inexplicable arguments with the moderator over time (if President Obama talked more than Romney did, why was the moderator arguing with Romney and not President Obama?). Regardless of the source of the audiences' inaccurate impression of who talked more, that Romney was the one who got into arguments with the moderator about talking too long and that the inaccurate impression of who was hogging the mike even exists contributed to the impression that Romney is a boor with poor social skills.

For evidence, we only need to look to the only two genuine moments in the debate: Jim Lehrer cutting off Romney when he tried to argue for more time, and President Obama eliciting sympathetic laughter from the audience after scolding Jim Lehrer when he was interrupted with five seconds of his time remaining. People also keep making a big deal about Romney seeming to be able to begin and end segments. That might have been a bad thing for President Obama, but combined with the other shortcomings in Romney's delivery, the structure of the debate seemed to convey the impression that President Obama, whatever his other shortcomings, was a man of respect with important things to say. Romney, by contrast, seemed to almost be begging for attention and approval. President Obama would offer a defense of his record and a description of his (somewhat limited and scattered) vision, while Romney sometimes seemed to almost whine from the peanut gallery. Romney looked amateurish and immature at times. President Obama looked, if not energetic........... Presidential.

Finally, and most fatally to Romney, he really failed to offer any details to his proposals. His main argument seemed to be the standard Republican rant against the federal government combined with attacks against President Obama for failing to turn the economy around. He also offered a somewhat bizarre defense against President Obama's attacks on what we all thought Romney's policies were. Romney simply said that what President Obama said he was going to do he wasn't actually going to do. He didn't say what he actually would do.

This is my interpretation in a nutshell. I gotta say, as a person who used to run debates back in college, completely disregarding or disrespecting the moderator is a huge no-no in formal debates. Romney's attitude towards the debate rules was pretty disgusting.
 

pigeon

Banned
This is my interpretation in a nutshell. I gotta say, as a person who used to run debates back in college, completely disregarding or disrespecting the moderator is a huge no-no in formal debates. Romney's attitude towards the debate rules was pretty disgusting.

I think people on GAF, who (no offense) skew younger, are maybe not getting how badly Romney's attitude towards Jim Lehrer, a popular and well-known public figure and -- frankly -- a really old man -- might play among a large segment of the population, including a significant chunk of the undecided voters who claim to hate incivility and partisan behavior. I was frankly surprised to see him do that.
 

SRG01

Member
I think people were underestimating Romney going into the debates and are now overrating his performance. Romney managed to string together a coherent argument while avoiding having a freak out or insulting half the country, so people are impressed with him relative to how they previously viewed him. Unfortunately for Romney, there were several weaknesses in his performance that ultimately will prove fatal to what he hoped to accomplish in the debate: reverse the course of public opinion which had turned increasingly against him over the past month.

Romney often came across as both nervous and boorish. People are complimenting Romney for talking fast and seeming to yell, but he didn't come across as strong to me. His manner of speaking suggested desperation and exasperation. His delivery did improve towards the end of the debate, but throughout at least the first two thirds his manner of speaking was suggestive of someone who lacked confidence, was unsure of themselves, and was unsure of how others viewed them. It also is not a good thing for Romney that people perceived him as speaking more than President Obama even though the converse was true. The audiences' inaccurate perception likely was fueled by how fast Romney was speaking (which made him seem needy and nervous), and his inexplicable arguments with the moderator over time (if President Obama talked more than Romney did, why was the moderator arguing with Romney and not President Obama?). Regardless of the source of the audiences' inaccurate impression of who talked more, that Romney was the one who got into arguments with the moderator about talking too long and that the inaccurate impression of who was hogging the mike even exists contributed to the impression that Romney is a boor with poor social skills.

For evidence, we only need to look to the only two genuine moments in the debate: Jim Lehrer cutting off Romney when he tried to argue for more time, and President Obama eliciting sympathetic laughter from the audience after scolding Jim Lehrer when he was interrupted with five seconds of his time remaining. People also keep making a big deal about Romney seeming to be able to begin and end segments. That might have been a bad thing for President Obama, but combined with the other shortcomings in Romney's delivery, the structure of the debate seemed to convey the impression that President Obama, whatever his other shortcomings, was a man of respect with important things to say. Romney, by contrast, seemed to almost be begging for attention and approval. President Obama would offer a defense of his record and a description of his (somewhat limited and scattered) vision, while Romney sometimes seemed to almost whine from the peanut gallery. Romney looked amateurish and immature at times. President Obama looked, if not energetic........... Presidential.

Finally, and most fatally to Romney, he really failed to offer any details to his proposals. His main argument seemed to be the standard Republican rant against the federal government combined with attacks against President Obama for failing to turn the economy around. He also offered a somewhat bizarre defense against President Obama's attacks on what we all thought Romney's policies were. Romney simply said that what President Obama said he was going to do he wasn't actually going to do. He didn't say what he actually would do.

Actually, this was exactly what happened up here in Canada during our Federal Election debates. Our Prime Minister didn't have to yell or raise his voice. All he had to do was calmly state his points and look ministerial.

edit: Also, that same prime minister went from a minority government to a very strong majority.
 

The Jason

Member
I think the Obama camp underestimated how strong Romney would look by being forceful.

On substance Romney just decided to just change his mind in regard to everything: lowering taxes on the rich, on regulations, on health care, on education, ect.

The debate was also way out of control. I love jim but he could not moderate effectively.
 

Juice

Member
I think people on GAF, who (no offense) skew younger, are maybe not getting how badly Romney's attitude towards Jim Lehrer, a popular and well-known public figure and -- frankly -- a really old man -- might play among a large segment of the population, including a significant chunk of the undecided voters who claim to hate incivility and partisan behavior. I was frankly surprised to see him do that.

Jim was off camera and really quiet for all but a couple exchanges. I think by Lehrer's disengaging, Romney will escape major criticism
 
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