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2012 First U.S. Presidential Debate |OT| OK Libya... We need a leader, not a reader.
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Buba Big Guns
Banned
Do debates even have a large effect on the outcome in the US? I'd imagine no one will give a shit in a week.
So there were war protests and terrible tax cut policies and in return we progressives got war criminal Obama. What makes you think booting this guy out and putting in Bush version III is going to get anywhere? Set aside this echo chamber you've created for yourself at the moment. The country has moved to the right.Its not fantasy, it is pragmatic and real... Where are the war protests during President Obama's term? Where was the protest of his continuation of the Bush tax cuts? Oh that is right, team blue right?
Mercury Fred
Banned
Bams, that was a fucking disaster. Get it together.
That was my point when I said that our political system was fucked.
People forget that Obama pushed back on the $716B numerous times and Romney kept lying. Calling him out for everything would have just made Obama look petty even though it would have satisfied the democratic base.
I disagree.
It's not so much that the pushing back would have made Obama look petty - the way to "win" a debate is by calling out inconsistencies in your opponent's argument. Obama just didn't do it with enough authority. It was his fatal flaw throughout the entire debate.
When points of argument become a matter of no you didn't/yes I did and neither candidate is budging, it naturally becomes a matter of perception. Who appears to be the most factual and in control? Tonight it was Romney hands down. He was lying through his teeth, but he did it with passion and perceived conviction.
Obama, on the other hand, with his "...Uhh............" littering every attempt at a call-out, came off as unsure and, thus, petty.
As sure as the morning sky is blue Romney will attempt to lie and flip-flop his way through the next debates, and when that happens Obama needs to not just tap him on the inconsistencies. He needs to go for the full-on gut-punch/body slam. He needs to respond with authority and confidence. He needs to brick wall Romney in a way that he didn't come close to doing at any point tonight.
Deified Data
Banned
Vote despite the system - it's the only way I'm going to drag my ass to the polls, honestly.I know I'm chicken little here, but this debate seriously made me reconsider my interest in politics. If someone can blatantly mislead and distort facts, and still come out in the lead just because he acts like a confident dick the whole night, our political system is just completely fucked. I'm still gonna vote, but man, I think I need a break from this shit.
You don't have to vote for one of these clowns, though.
Do debates even have a large effect on the outcome in the US? I'd imagine no one will give a shit in a week.
If the employment numbers are good and Obama has a good second debate then everything will likely be fine. If on the other hand Romney can start to build on the slight momentum he will get then it will be a more serious issue. This country basically is center right, or at least tilts to the right which is tough for Democrats. However, Obama has some good demographic factors in his favor as well as the electoral college map, along with being personally likeable. This can all change very quickly though.
you know ultimately this bad performance might of been good for obama. before this obama seemed to be running away with the election and many of his supporters might of stayed home on election day thinking he had it in the bag. on the other hand many republicans that planned to stay home might see that romney has some momentum and they might actually go out and vote if they see he might have a chance.
ThisWreckage
Banned
you know ultimately this bad performance might of been good for obama. before this obama seemed to be running away with the election and many of his supporters might of stayed home on election day thinking he had it in the bag. on the other hand many republicans that planned to stay home might see that romney has some momentum and they might actually go out and vote if they see he might have a chance.
Not a chance in hell this happens. Conservatives are going to rally around Mitt. Period.
Officerrob
Banned
you know ultimately this bad performance might of been good for obama. before this obama seemed to be running away with the election and many of his supporters might of stayed home on election day thinking he had it in the bag. on the other hand many republicans that planned to stay home might see that romney has some momentum and they might actually go out and vote if they see he might have a chance.
Republicans were never going to bypass their chance to vote against Obama, that's why Republican enthusiasm remained sky high despite Romney floundering over the past month
AnathemicOne
Banned
Its not a matter of being intelligent, it is a matter of doing what is right... I am sure most of us here would do the right thing and not bombard villages with predator drones or violate the civil liberties of comrades.
Being President contrary to what the media tells us is a very easy job... Look at the vacation days we allow... Presidents should have the same or less vacation days than the common American especially with the luxuries they have.
I am pretty sure most Neogaf members would be a better President than most of our modern Presidents.
What the fuck am I reading?
Contrary to popular belief, the world isn't black and white as you make it to be. Ever heard the term "morally grey?" and there's also the fact as awesome as the Internet is, we don't know everything. And what kind of bullshit statement is that the job of being the President of hte United States is an easy job? Are you honestly that damn naive/ignorant?
well now liberals will rally around obama if they see he might be vulnerable. if both sides are going out to vote then its good news.Not a chance in hell this happens. Conservatives are going to rally around Mitt. Period.
ThisWreckage
Banned
well now liberals will rally around obama if they see he might be vulnerable. if both sides are going out to vote then its good news.
If anything, the more probable outcome is that Obama supporters will think, "Well, he beat McCain so..." and won't go out and vote.
Do debates even have a large effect on the outcome in the US? I'd imagine no one will give a shit in a week.
You have to understand that Romney has been portrayed in the media as losing this election with no chance of winning. Tonight he showed up and looked like a leader while Obama looked timid. This may have been the first time that Romney was able to speak to the American public on this scale, not only matching up with Obama but actually coming off as looking "Presidential" while Obama floundered. These debates are important because when you put the candidates side by side they are on equal grounds, not at some rally or convention which is mainly speaking to just the party base. This was huge for Romney.
Deified Data
Banned
What? No it isn't.well now liberals will rally around obama if they see he might be vulnerable. if both sides are going out to vote then its good news.
It's not like both sides turning out will make the country a better place. That only works when on side wins, and the other decisively loses. That holds true regardless of your politics.
naw looks at how the liberals on neogaf are freaking out. same thing will happen with democratic voters if they see a week or two of bad news for obama. hopefully new voters make up for some of the people that will stay home because they don't care either way.If anything, the more probable outcome is that Obama supporters will think, "Well, he beat McCain so..." and won't go out and vote.
Devolution
Member
I don't even know what to think of the debates anymore.
lol Lost Voyager banned. It was inevitable.
lol Lost Voyager banned. It was inevitable.
you know ultimately this bad performance might of been good for obama. before this obama seemed to be running away with the election and many of his supporters might of stayed home on election day thinking he had it in the bag. on the other hand many republicans that planned to stay home might see that romney has some momentum and they might actually go out and vote if they see he might have a chance.
Not a chance in hell this happens. Conservatives are going to rally around Mitt. Period.
That debate isnt going to rally anybody who isnt already rallied.
Two boring men talking about boring numbers with the one memorable moment being about Big Bird.
No gaffs, no zingers.
My guess is it does squat to anything.
He was getting called on time because for most of the debate the President was the one always over time. Go watch the speech accumulation times for each person during the debate. Obama just spoke slow and timid.
Do you have a link to this? I was watching a livestream with no gadgets or bells or whistles to tell me what I should think.
At any rate, Romney had, several times, overridden the moderator to get whole rebuttals he wasn't entitled to. And Obama let it slide.
speculawyer
Member
I know I'm chicken little here, but this debate seriously made me reconsider my interest in politics. If someone can blatantly mislead and distort facts, and still come out in the lead just because he acts like a confident dick the whole night, our political system is just completely fucked. I'm still gonna vote, but man, I think I need a break from this shit.
Where you around for 2000 to 2007?
That is just the way it is sometimes.
Devolution
Member
Romney also kept insisting on a rebuttal when it wasn't even his turn for one.
Yup. And he kept the same topic going because Obama was supposedly lying about his tax policy.
Do you have a link to this? I was watching a livestream with no gadgets or bells or whistles to tell me what I should think.
At any rate, Romney had, several times, overridden the moderator to get whole rebuttals he wasn't entitled to. And Obama let it slide.
Yup. And he kept the same topic going because Obama was supposedly lying about his tax policy.
You have to understand that Romney has been portrayed in the media as losing this election with no chance of winning. Tonight he showed up and looked like a leader while Obama looked timid. This may have been the first time that Romney was able to speak to the American public on this scale, not only matching up with Obama but actually coming off as looking "Presidential" while Obama floundered. These debates are important because when you put the candidates side by side they are on equal grounds, not at some rally or convention which is mainly speaking to just the party base. This was huge for Romney.
By "huge" do you mean making up a shitload of lies?
Kinda worrying that what's "presidential" to you is a candidate outright lying to the American public.
Bam Bam Baklava
Member
You have to understand that Romney has been portrayed in the media as losing this election with no chance of winning. Tonight he showed up and looked like a leader while Obama looked timid. This may have been the first time that Romney was able to speak to the American public on this scale, not only matching up with Obama but actually coming off as looking "Presidential" while Obama floundered. These debates are important because when you put the candidates side by side they are on equal grounds, not at some rally or convention which is mainly speaking to just the party base. This was huge for Romney.
That doesn't really answer his question though now does it.
Devolution
Member
Yeah the guy who can't even articulate his plans until he's in office. Great leader speedline.
No, this country is just that damn stupid. The debates aren't set up for fact checking. If you're better at generally spewing bullshit, congrats, you win.
French newspapers headline: "Romney dominated Obama in the first debate" was it that bad?
No, this country is just that damn stupid. The debates aren't set up for fact checking. If you're better at generally spewing bullshit, congrats, you win.
Romney also kept insisting on a rebuttal when it wasn't even his turn for one.
They need to just cut the mics of whoever's turn it is not to speak. But that would take a moderator with balls.
Deified Data
Banned
This. This isn't going to change a significant number of minds. Both sides have their partisans, and I'm pretty sure "independent voters" (as they're traditionally perceived) are extinct.That debate isnt going to rally anybody who isnt already rallied.
Two boring men talking about boring numbers with the one memorable moment being about Big Bird.
No gaffs, no zingers.
My guess is it does squat to anything.
French newspapers headline: "Romney dominated Obama in the first debate" was it that bad?
Only if you base it on showmanship.
Devolution
Member
They need to just cut the mics of whoever's turn it is not to speak. But that would take a moderator with balls.
Personally I think they should employ the Academy Awards Orchestra.
French newspapers headline: "Romney dominated Obama in the first debate" was it that bad?
Dominated in terms of presentation, yes; for the educated, Romney was just spewing lie after lie. I just wonder why Obama didn't call him out on it more or even attacked him on some of the more sensitive issues for Romney.
speculawyer
Member
French newspapers headline: "Romney dominated Obama in the first debate" was it that bad?
Yeah . . . pretty much. Obama kinda slept through it. It was one of those debates where if you read the transcript it will look better for Obama but if you see/hear the debate, it looks better for Romney. Romney said a lot of contradictory nonsense but sold it well.
Where you around for 2000 to 2007?
That is just the way it is sometimes.
Sometimes?
Officerrob
Banned
You have to understand that Romney has been portrayed in the media as losing this election with no chance of winning.
What exactly are you watching/listening to? The media has continued to push the election as very close up until the last couple weeks when Obama started to move ahead in the polls. Hell, some members of the media still try and push Pennsylvania as a swing state.
Look at the CNN battleground map: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2012/ecalculator#?battleground
Ohio, New Hampshire, and Wisconsin are all listed as toss ups and not lean Obama despite Obama leading each by at least 5.5% in the Real Clear Politics average of polls (Wisconsin is 7.6%). Why is this done? To keep the allotted electoral vote close and make it look like the race for electoral votes is closer than it is.
Most people here didn't complain throughout the election when Obama was winning bonus points because he was more likeable and seemed like the cooler guy. Obama has benefited from style just as much as Romney has if not more. It is Obama's job to outline how Mitt Romney's facts are deceptive during the debate.
speculawyer
Member
Sometimes?
Yeah sometimes. The bullshit is alluring. The snake oil sounds good. But then after you buy it and find it doesn't work and makes things worse you wake up and reject it. The real cure requires diligence, sacrifice, and hard work. So you do it for a while. But you get tired of it and the revamped snake oil starts sounding like it might work . . . . the cycle starts anew.
Lord_Byron28
Member
Who was the guy debating against Obama? He looked kind of like Mitt Romney but his political stances were completely different from the Republican debate I saw.
All of his plans he said in this debate were "like Obamas plan but better" while being vague as to how he plans on accomplishing said tasks.
Obamas calm but steady approach worked for 2008 but he should've been more aggressive with Romney. After Romney rambled about the middle class and how much he cares Obama should've read the 47% quote that recently leaked that Romney said.
Only thing I can think of is Obama was prepped to debate Republican Romney of 6 months ago and was thrown off by Independent reach across the aisle Romney that was present today.
All of his plans he said in this debate were "like Obamas plan but better" while being vague as to how he plans on accomplishing said tasks.
Obamas calm but steady approach worked for 2008 but he should've been more aggressive with Romney. After Romney rambled about the middle class and how much he cares Obama should've read the 47% quote that recently leaked that Romney said.
Only thing I can think of is Obama was prepped to debate Republican Romney of 6 months ago and was thrown off by Independent reach across the aisle Romney that was present today.
Devolution
Member
Obama needs 2 pieces of paper.
One that outlines what Republican Romney would do. And one that outlines what closer to center Romney would do. And maybe a third paper that says in big bold letters "ask him why his awesome plans won't be made public till after he's elected."
One that outlines what Republican Romney would do. And one that outlines what closer to center Romney would do. And maybe a third paper that says in big bold letters "ask him why his awesome plans won't be made public till after he's elected."
ThisWreckage
Banned
Only if you base it on showmanship.
Which is the only thing that truly matters. So, to answer his question, yes, it's true.
Deified Data
Banned
Mitt's a political chameleon. He's everything his opponent isn't.Who was the guy debating against Obama? He looked kind of like Mitt Romney but his political stances were completely different from the Republican debate I saw.
All of his plans he said in this debate were "like Obamas plan but better" while being vague as to how he plans on accomplishing said tasks.
Obamas calm but steady approach worked for 2008 but he should've been more aggressive with Romney. After Romney rambled about the middle class and how much he cares Obama should've read the 47% quote that recently leaked that Romney said.
Only thing I can think of is Obama was prepped to debate Republican Romney of 6 months ago and was thrown off by Independent reach across the aisle Romney that was present today.
Obama came off as not wanting the job as much as Romney.
I wonder if that should be counted as a sign of sanity in someone who's been at it for four years.
Devolution
Member
I wonder if that should be counted as a sign of sanity in someone who's been at it for four years.
Better than that sociopath Romney who wants it so bad he won't stick to a position.
polyh3dron
Banned
boom.Better than that sociopath Romney who wants it so bad he won't stick to a position.
also, where the fuck are mitt's tax returns.
I guess Obama is doing his whole "No Drama Obama" thing. In the primaries, everyone would always want him to get more aggressive but Obama would just stay cool and not move the needle. Meanwhile, his opponent eventually self destructs. I wonder if there's something worse Mitt can do than the 47% video to crash and burn once and for all just like every other one of his prior political opponents has done.
I'll be really interested to see how right wing talk radio reacts to Mitt's performance where he basically sold the tea party out by doing a complete 180 on many issues the right wingers care deeply about. I'm guessing they'll stay real quiet.
Synth_floyd
Banned
If Romney wins then just wait 4 years from now when he's up for reelection. That'll teach all the people that voted for him!!
ronitoswife
Neo Member
They need to just cut the mics of whoever's turn it is not to speak. But that would take a moderator with balls.
Totally agree on this. That was my main frustration with the whole debate that the moderator let the debaters run all over the place and in essence take charge of the whole thing. I kept thinking what the hell is the point of having a moderator if he won't moderate.
ronitoswife
Neo Member
Personally I think they should employ the Academy Awards Orchestra.
and have it played louder and louder every time they try to talk over it until they finally stop talking!
boom.
also, where the fuck are mitt's tax returns.
They were already released. Where are Obama's academic records?
The spin in this thread is amusing.
I think Romney came across too hyper at times but Obama seemed like he was just spouting talking points unnaturally.
polyh3dron
Banned
Yeah because academic records are routinely disclosed by presidential candidates and it's just like not releasing tax returns. False equivalence much?They were already released. Where are Obama's academic records?
The spin in this thread is amusing.
Mitt's own dad said releasing just a couple of years of tax returns is pointless because those years could just be done for show, especially when they're from years that the candidate has already been campaigning in.
The spin in your post is amusing.
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