Microsoft Surface Tablet announced

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giga said:
No, you don't.
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Yeah, I do.
Windu said:
you will not have chrome or firefox in windows rt. google and Mozilla would have to use IE's rendering engine or something, anyway just like iOS. they have not announced anything for RT. And the new touch friendly IE has flash support, uses a whitelist so some sites have it, some don't.
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Oh, I guess I assumed that when they were talking about making "Metro" versions of Chrome and Firefox, then that was part of it.
 
giga said:
No.
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brotkasten said:
No, you will not be able to install Steam on Windows RT.

Windows RT runs on ARM hardware, like iOS does.



Nope.
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What the fuck?

I2095.gif
 
Izick said:
Yeah, I do.


Oh, I guess I assumed that when they were talking about making "Metro" versions of Chrome and Firefox, then that was part of it.
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Windows RT is the ARM operating system. (just like your ipad, smartphone, nexus tablet etc..). the new UI works on both Windows RT and Windows 8. On Windows 8 Google and Mozilla can create their web browsers in the new UI using their own rendering engines etc... (and they have, both will have a touch friendly version of their browser) On Window RT, they would have to use IE's rendering engine etc., same thing that Apple does on iOS. Google and Mozilla have decided to hold off on doing that. (and have complained to the EU even though Microsoft has no marketshare on ARM).
 
Windu said:
Windows RT is the ARM operating system. (just like your ipad, smartphone etc..). the new UI works on both Windows RT and Windows 8. On Windows 8 Google and Mozilla can create their web browsers in the new UI using their own rendering engines etc... (and they have, both will have a touch friendly version of their browser) On Window RT, they would have to use IE's rendering engine, same thing that Apple does on iOS. Google and Mozilla have decided to hold off on doing that. (and have complained to the EU).
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That makes much more sense. Thanks for actually clarifying and not being a douchebag about it.
 
Milchjon said:
You're our very own Steve Jobs.
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Dead?

Giga, who do you want to be? Ive, Cook or Schiller?

Windu said:
Windows RT is the ARM operating system. (just like your ipad, smartphone, nexus tablet etc..). the new UI works on both Windows RT and Windows 8. On Windows 8 Google and Mozilla can create their web browsers in the new UI using their own rendering engines etc... (and they have, both will have a touch friendly version of their browser) On Window RT, they would have to use IE's rendering engine etc., same thing that Apple does on iOS. Google and Mozilla have decided to hold off on doing that. (and have complained to the EU even though Microsoft has no marketshare on ARM).
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Windu, you should put the differences between ARM and x86 into the first post. You're such a terrible OP.
 
fluffydelusions said:
But do you think any of the Pro tablets will have enough muscle for decent gaming anyway? Doubtful, at least at launch I suspect. I'm sure Valve will make a version of their Steam app for RT.
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If the pro tablet doesn't have enough to run ftl then this thing is fucked.

Shit I'm pretty sure my calculator or even my fridge could run tf2 at this point.
 
SteveWinwood said:
If the pro tablet doesn't have enough to run ftl then this thing is fucked.

Shit I'm pretty sure my calculator or even my fridge could run tf2 at this point.
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If I'm not mistaken didn't Valve say that tf2 has evolved so much that the consoles could not even run it anymore? My ASUS g74 plays pretty much everything I throw at it and it's quite thick...not sure the tech is there for that kind of gaming in tablet form just yet.
 
fluffydelusions said:
If I'm not mistaken didn't Valve say that tf2 has evolved so much that the consoles could not even run it anymore?
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That has more to do with the hundreds of patches they've put out, not the actual technical side of the source engine which is still super flexible and easy on hardware. There is no question that tf2 in it's current form could run on a 360 or ps3, it's just not worth valve's time to put it out as a ftp and bother with figuring it out with microsoft and sony for unlimited and instant patching.
 
Wanting the RT instead of the Pro is like preferring a limp dick to a raging boner.

Now you'll say, but I don't need a raging boner most of the time.

Well, I do.
 
SteveWinwood said:
That has more to do with the hundreds of patches they've put out, not the actual technical side of the source engine which is still super flexible and easy on hardware.
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What's the highest specd Windows Pro tablet announced, do you happen to know? I'd be interested in knowing. I haven't heard anything with nvidia 600x series chips which would be really awesome...but the heat lol. My laptop has massive fans on the back and has a 560m inside...probably not ideal for a tablet.
 
fluffydelusions said:
What's the highest specd Windows Pro tablet announced, do you happen to know? I'd be interested in knowing. I haven't heard anything with nvidia 600x series chips which would be really awesome...but the heat lol. My laptop has massive fans on the back and has a 560m inside...probably not ideal for a tablet.
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Surface for Windows 8 Pro is rumored to have a core i5 in it. There have been tablets announced that have i7s in them.
 
-Pyromaniac- said:
Wanting the RT instead of the Pro is like preferring a limp dick to a raging boner.

Now you'll say, but I don't need a raging boner most of the time.

Well, I do.
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I'd say it mostly depends on the person. If it's your primary device that you intend to replace a laptop with you're probably right. For someone like me who just wants something like browsing, streaming, casual gaming, etc, RT is fine. I have a laptop for serious work/gaming.
 
fluffydelusions said:
I'd say it mostly depends on the person. If it's your primary device that you intend to replace a laptop with you're probably right. For someone like me who just wants something like browsing, streaming, casual gaming, etc, RT is fine. I have a laptop for serious work/gaming.
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well for those things an ipad sounds better. If you need word, then yeah, RT. But word is being released on the ipad isn't it. Until the market place reaches the ipad in terms of quality + quanitity, I just don't see why anyone would want it.

That is of course, if for whatever reason you just don't like iOS and really like metro so much that you're willing to forgive the lack of apps in comparison.

The pro on the other hand doesn't really have a competitor.
 
-Pyromaniac- said:
well for those things an ipad sounds better. If you need word, then yeah, RT. But word is being released on the ipad isn't it. Until the market place reaches the ipad in terms of quality + quanitity, I just don't see why anyone would want it.

That is of course, if for whatever reason you just don't like iOS and really like metro so much that you're willing to forgive the lack of apps in comparison.

The pro on the other hand doesn't really have a competitor.
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My gf already has an iPad and as far as market well Windows >>>>>>>>iPad easily and once Win8 is released it will only be a matter of time before the marketplace is huge. I'm not worried about that.
 
So former 'Softie Brandon Watson, who used to work on the Windows Phone team as a dev manager, and who now works at Amazon had a few interesting things to say this morning about Surface and Microsoft in general.

I was watching the most excellent “Gangs of New York” this weekend and something stuck in my head as it relates to the coming release of the Microsoft Surface.

Prepare for a little trip, as I am going to venture off into crazy town with this post. Let me state now, very clearly – I have not used a Microsoft Surface. I have passing knowledge of Windows 8. I do not use on a daily machine yet, though I am very excited about it. I have handled a few Windows 8 and Windows RT devices.

The Microsoft ecosystem, though while it had numbers, succumbed to the ferocity of the Apple onslaught. It didn’t matter that the OEMs were willing to fight alongside Microsoft, they weren’t fighting an inspired fight.

The story moves forward a handful of years and DiCaprio (Neeson’s son) takes the lead in the movie. His is a cause born of revenge. Revenge is a challenging lubricant. It doesn’t inspire others. You will find yourself alone in your cause. However, as DiCaprio transitions from fighting out of vengeance to fighting for a cause (specifically, ridding the 5 Points of tyranny and injustice), he begins to build his following. He identifies a need in the population, and exploits it to achieve his specific goal.

Years of uninspired PC manufacturing was a cause born of complacency. When it was clear that the iPad had dealt a serious blow, the reaction was that born of vengeance. Do more of the same, and hope for a different result. As much as it pains me to make this analogy, the Surface is DiCaprio in the third act of the movie. How? Keep reading.

Apple talks about their iPad share, but they don’t talk about their Mac share. They are controlling the battlefield by defining the metrics for success. iPhones and iPads are the shiny new thing, and that’s what is being reported – and of course, they are the undisputed leader. The reality, however, is that PC sales far outstrip iPad sales. Many will say “for now” and they have reason to. PCs, in their current manifestation, cannot solve the problem the iPad solves in an elegant way.

People need to stop thinking about Windows 8 tablets, and Windows 8 laptops, and Windows 8 PCs as if they are separate things. Ballmer and company get this, and have begun referring to them as “devices.” Devices. This slight shift in nomenclature has the potential to tilt the battlefield back in Microsoft’s favor. They can now claim numerical superiority. Picture the headline – “Windows ships on 1 billion devices!”

Next orthogonal. Have you noticed a lot of work or noise going into the Windows Phone 8 brand? I have been out of the company long enough that I have no idea what they are doing over there. It would not surprise me if the lack of a Windows Phone 8 brand marketing is specifically because the shift to that word – devices – is because the powers that be in big Windows (i.e the Sinofsky camp) want to report on Windows 8 licenses shipping on devices. Remember, Windows Phone 8 is Windows 8 at its core.

So coming back to this DiCaprio as the Surface idea. What was that all about? Here goes…The Surface is a product that finally allows the legions of Microsoft fans to get what they want. To get the laid back entertainment screen (apps, games, news, email), and a full up operating system for productivity work. Let’s not forget the true killer app in Office. It’s still very relevant. Please don’t come at me with Google apps. Even with our iPad, my wife still does virtually all of her work on her Macbook Air. Why? Convenience and productivity.

The Surface is pretty (so is DiCaprio, but that point is not relevant here). It’s light. Way lighter than any laptop. It will weight just a teeny bit more than an iPad. It’s way cooler than any laptop. But most importantly, it is inspiring the OEMs. It’s showing them that there is innovation and coolness left in the Windows legacy. It’s demonstrating that the OEMs should necessarily roll over while the iPad eats their lunch. But there’s something that Windows 8 gives me that I cannot get today – device nirvana.

I believe that Windows 8 is going to do well, though I think it’s going to take some time to get its legs. If I were Apple, I would actually be very concerned about the reality of history repeating itself. As Derek Sivers posted, ideas are fine, but execution matters. Is it possible that Apple’s execution has only been great, and not brilliant? They haven’t cracked the corp nut yet, so it’s not crazy to say that they haven’t truly capitalized on their brilliant idea by selling the majority of their devices to consumers. Doing a version of a brilliant idea is at best a great idea, perhaps a good idea, but if executed brilliantly, well, that’s a nice outcome. Microsoft has played that game before. Windows (vs. Mac) and Office (vs. WordPerfect & Lotus) stand as testimony.
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Full blog post here
 
That's nice but MS has to prove it can move ARM device first. If MS can not successfully move ARM device, it will not control the narrative of the PC market and it will not stand against the onslaught of iOS/Android devices.

The way the market is going, everyone will own 1-2 intel device and at least 2 ARM devices (phone, tablet, setop box, even camera etc.)

I have said this a long time ago. MS should have ported full W8 to ARM.
 
fluffydelusions said:
Indeed. I don't really care that it can't run some full blown apps as I have a laptop for that and gaming. RT will be a nice tablet for laying in bed, watching movies, on the go etc.
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But Windows' main appeal is its "legacy". Take away all the legacy apps, which you do with RT, and you're starting from scratch. In that case, what does it offer over iOS or even Android, which are well-established platforms at this point?
 
NotTarts said:
As in, allow the creation of desktop programs? That would be even more confusing than the current solution.
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well they can limit it like you limit a Vista Home Basic edition. But they need to include the software/hardware bit to run x86 applications in a sandbox/emulator.
 
Damon Bennet said:
ugh that ad is pretty bad. i dont want the product in the ad at all. And I love surface
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Kinda liked it. Tune was catchy, not sure about the spontaneous dancing, kept freaking out how haphazard they were being with all those pristine un-priced Surfaces, just throwing them willy-nilly into the air, doing backflips and clicking them together (that was actually cool). Also in terms of ads and simulated screens, don't know what they did, but it looked great for once.
 
At least we got some Twitter drama out of it:

@WithinRafael: Behind the scenes with the Surface ad: "Hey, we need the most fucked up looking social app to showcase... hey, let's go with Rowi!"
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(He helped with MetroTwit, iirc)
 
tino said:
well they can limit it like you limit a Vista Home Basic edition. But they need to include the software/hardware bit to run x86 applications in a sandbox/emulator.
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There's no way you'd be able to emulate regular x86 programs on a low-power ARM chip and expect usable performance, much less x86 games.
 
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