Microsoft Surface Tablet announced

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Dreams-Visions said:
speak for yourself. do not propose to know the mind of everyone planning on buying a surface tablet.

I'd suggest that many will use it as a regular tablet while in transit or while chilling out on the couch, but will often revert back to the desktop mode as soon as they have a solid surface to type on available.

...and I wonder how many people that will represent and how many Metro apps those people will buy.
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So, like I said. If they use it as a tablet they are going to prefer the Metro apps. Do people even use desktop apps for the types of things you listed (RSS reader, weather, streaming video)? Can't say I've ever seen anyone do any of that outside of a web browser.

Not to mention, those sorts of apps are typically free (or have suitable free equivalents) anyway
 
Shinobix said:
Sorry guys but I haven't quite understood yet. If I'm looking for a laptop-esque device should I go Pro instead of RT?
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If you need the power of a laptop and/or access to non-Windows Store applications (non tablet style apps) you'll want to go with a Pro.
 
Izick said:
The only tablet game I'm interested in is the upcoming Shadowrun game, and I'm guessing there's still a lot of time until that comes out.
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then you have to get an x86 tablet.. AMD is claiming you can play Call of duty on their new x86 tablet processor..tho they didn't say if thats Call of Duty Blops or COD 1...
so for low cost AMD might work and gaming..realistically your gonna want an i5 highend tablet/ultrabook
 
Emily Chu said:
familiarity, and custom themes, etc

start menu (I know you can do a hack or something)

idk I'm hella comfortable with W7 atm been using it since it was in alpha

anything to get away from vista

Ugh...
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you realize the surface has a touch screen right?
 
bloodydrake said:
then you have to get an x86 tablet.. AMD is claiming you can play Call of duty on their new x86 tablet processor..tho they didn't say if thats Call of Duty Blops or COD 1...
so for low cost AMD might work and gaming..realistically your gonna want an i5 highend tablet/ultrabook
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I'm not sure how resource intensive it's going to be, as it's supposed to run on Andorid/ios devices.
 
One thing you guys are missing is that all win rt apps are tablet apps unlike iOS and Android, and I believe that Android still sucks on the tablet app front. It's not like the Android app numbers has convinced that many people to get android tablets so far.
 
wat

http://twitter.com/stevesi/status/258304210272133120/photo/1

http://twitter.com/stevesi/status/258304417537851392/photo/1

KlKT7.png


mgH5o.png
 
Totakeke said:
One thing you guys are missing is that all win rt apps are tablet apps unlike iOS and Android, and I believe that Android still sucks on the tablet app front. It's not like the Android app numbers has convinced that many people to get android tablets so far.
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?
 
Totakeke said:
One thing you guys are missing is that all win rt apps are tablet apps unlike iOS and Android, and I believe that Android still sucks on the tablet app front. It's not like the Android app numbers has convinced that many people to get android tablets so far.
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All iPad apps are tablet apps. You have to manually change the settings on the App Store to see phone apps.
 
giga said:
?
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What's to not understand. The current app count for ios and android include thousands of apps not designed for tablets, but for itouch, phones, etc. I dunno if it's true, but he's saying the entire ecosystem for MS's store will be tablet developed apps.
 
Totakeke said:
One thing you guys are missing is that all win rt apps are tablet apps unlike iOS and Android, and I believe that Android still sucks on the tablet app front. It's not like the Android app numbers has convinced that many people to get android tablets so far.
Click to expand...
iOS has by farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr the most tablet apps. RT has a long way.

elrechazado said:
What's to not understand. The current app count for ios and android include thousands of apps not designed for tablets, but for itouch, phones, etc. I dunno if it's true, but he's saying the entire ecosystem for MS's store will be tablet developed apps.
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umm the ipad has over 200K ipad apps alone doesn't it.
 
Emily Chu said:
don't W7 have basic touch stuff built in ?

and works with stuff like the X230 Thinkpad Tablet ?
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yes but why would you want to use windows 7 instead of windows 8 on a touch device. The desktop may have touch support, but it doesn't mean its any good.
 
Dreams-Visions said:
Almost 3,000 apps, eh? Not bad. Don't they have some crazy goal of a million or so by summer?
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Also something to consider is there are still a ton of apps supposed to be in there by launch that are not in there yet. On the gaming side alone only about 1/4 of the announced xbox launch games are in there currently. If that percentage holds true for the general app store there will be quite a few added over the next few days.
 
elrechazado said:
What's to not understand. The current app count for ios and android include thousands of apps not designed for tablets, but for itouch, phones, etc. I dunno if it's true, but he's saying the entire ecosystem for MS's store will be tablet developed apps.
Click to expand...
I'm not following this conversation. What was the point of the statement again? Did someone claim that the app store's 700k apps were all tablet apps? There are 250k iPad apps.
 
elrechazado said:
Where did I say it didn't?? What do you think the word "include" means?
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Your post was explaining a post that was completely wrong.

Your post was very unclear because of that. Not sure what your post is saying at all really. What's the point of it I mean. iOS has different kinds of apps? Market place only has tablet apps? (which btw is not true).

giga said:
I'm not following this conversation. What was the point of the statement again? Did someone claim that the app store's 700k apps were all tablet apps? There are 250k iPad apps.
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lol that's what I'm saying. One person said something totally wrong, then you explained it making a point that I'm sure anyone refuted or even brought up besides the post that was wrong.

Not sure what the implication is.
 
If I were a developer I probably wouldn't release my app yet. That time on the recently released list is too precious to waste on the small number of people that have the prerelease.

Though I guess you could say it's better to get in before the flood of apps too
 
Shinobix said:
Mainly read books/pdfs and Office but I would love to have access to other programs i.e. photoshop, winrar/zip etc.
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Probably would want to look into a Windows 8 tablet, not RT. The Surface Pro is coming out sometime next year, so that's something to look forward to.
 
-Pyromaniac- said:
Your post was explaining a post that was completely wrong.

Your post was very unclear because of that. Not sure what your post is saying at all really. What's the point of it I mean. iOS has different kinds of apps? Market place only has tablet apps? (which btw is not true).


lol that's what I'm saying. One person said something totally wrong, then you explained it making a point that I'm sure anyone refuted or even brought up besides the post that was wrong.

Not sure what the implication is.
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I'm still baffled at how you're failing to understand a very simple statement. Very weird defensiveness.
 
elrechazado said:
I'm still baffled at how you're failing to understand a very simple statement. Very weird defensiveness.
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there's no defensiveness here, calm yourself, lol. All I'm saying is someone quoted a post because that person was completely wrong. Then you quoted the person pointing out that he's wrong and said "what's not to understand".

Uhhh, the dude was wrong. Even he just admitted to being confused.
 
Technosteve said:
now bring back the zune microsoft bring back the zune
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I wouldn't mind a Zune if it had physical buttons. Apple completely fucked itself with the new Nano. It ruined the only thing that it was useful for, which was being used at the gym. Shame cause I wanted to upgrade from my old 8gb iPod Nano 5th gen.
 
Technosteve said:
now bring back the zune microsoft bring back the zune
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Would a Zune by another name sound just as sweet?

Microsoft says the Surface has a better perceived pixel density than the iPad Retina display.

image48.png




Hey this is Stevie. Screen resolution is one component of perceived detail. The true measure of resolvability of a screen called Modulation Transfer Function (MTF), not Pixels. MTF is a combination of both contrast and resolution.

There are over a dozen subsystems that effect this MTF number.. Most folks just focus on one number out of dozens that effect perceived detail. Without good contrast resolution decreases. Check out contrast sensitivity of the human eye graph and if you want more see the links below. Basically, as resolution/DPI increases the eye has becomes less sensitive.

So as a result, the amount of light in a room and the reflections off the screen have a huge effect on the contrast of the display. In fact, a small amount of reflection can greatly reduce contrast and thus the perceived resolution of the display. With the ClearType Display technology we took a 3 pronged approach to maximize that perceived resolution and optimize for battery life, weight, and thickness. First prong, Microsoft has the best pixel rendering technology in the industry (cleartype 1.0 and 2.0) .. these are exclusive and unique to Windows, it smooths text regardless of pixel count. Second, we designed a custom 10.6” high-contrast wide-angle screen LCD screen.

Lastly we optically bonded the screen with the thinnest optical stack anywhere on the market.. something which is more commonly done on phones we are doing on Surface. While this is not official, our current Cleartype measurements on the amount of light reflected off the screen is around 5.5%-6.2%, the new IPad has a measurement of 9.9% mirror reflections
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Helpful Article on understanding what is the difference between Windows 8 and Windows RT. http://www.winsupersite.com/article/windows8/choose-windows-8-windows-rt-144535
Paul Thurrott said:
With Microsoft finally offering its Surface with Windows RT devices for sale, some readers are having second thoughts after an initial bout of enthusiasm: Is Windows RT right for them, or will its limitations prove problematic? But deciding between Windows 8 and Windows RT doesn’t have to be hard.

As a backgrounder, Windows 8 is of course Microsoft’s new operating system for PCs and devices. The versions that run on traditional, Intel-type, x86-compatible PCs are known as Windows 8 (Core) and Windows 8 Pro. But there’s also a new version that runs on the ARM platform: This is called Windows RT.

Microsoft ported Windows to the ARM architecture for one reason, primarily: The company wanted its flagship product to run well on thin and light tablets and other mobile devices. And while Intel-compatible chipsets provide amazing performance and good battery life on a wide range of device types, only ARM provides them with the ability to compete, point by point, with devices as thin and light and power-efficient as the iPad.

Of course, ARM chipsets are not compatible with Intel-compatible chipsets, so the amazing array of Windows-compatible application software that we all take for granted on the PC side will not run on ARM-based Windows RT devices. (Most new Metro-style apps and games will run identically on both Windows 8 and RT, however.)

Additionally, some Windows 8 features aren’t available on Windows RT. These include individual applications like Windows Media Player and Windows Media Center, as well as features like Storage Spaces and BitLocker. (Windows RT overcomes the latter limitation with its own, unique full-device encryption functionality, however.)

OK. But how do you choose? Perhaps the best way to start is to ask yourself a few simple questions, which are aimed at seeing whether you can remove ARM and Windows RT from the equation.

These are:

Are you upgrading from Windows 7?

If yes, then you cannot choose Windows RT. You’ll need to upgrade to either Windows 8 or Windows 8 Pro instead. Windows RT is only available on new devices. There is no way to purchase just the software.

Do you need compatibility with legacy, desktop-based third-party applications like Photoshop?

If yes, then you cannot choose Windows RT. You’ll need to pick between the many Intel-compatible Windows 8 PCs and devices.

Do you need to sign-in to an Active Directory-based domain for work purposes?

If yes, then you cannot choose Windows RT. You’ll need to pick between the many Intel-compatible Windows 8 PCs and devices.

Do you need Windows Media Center, perhaps for a living room-based DVR (digital video recording) solution?

If yes, then you cannot choose Windows RT. You’ll need to pick between the many Intel-compatible Windows 8 PCs and devices. (In fact, you’ll need to use Windows 8 Pro, as Media Center is not available on Windows 8 Core.)

Those are the four biggest Windows RT blockers. If you still haven’t ruled out Windows RT, the choice now moves to devices. Unfortunately, that’s where things get a bit messy, since there is a wide array of both ARM-based Windows RT devices and x86/x64-based Windows 8 PCs and devices. And there’s a ton of overlap: You’re going to see Windows 8 slate PCs, Windows RT desktop PCs, and a slew of hybrid devices running on both architectures.

I can’t help you pick a device type of course, as that’s a personal decision. But there are a few additional hardware-related notes you should consider when making a purchasing decision.

Connected Standby. Both Windows 8 and RT support a new form of power management called Connected Standby that causes a Windows device to behave much like a smart phone. That is, instead of turning it off, the device will intelligently power down to a nearly powerless state in which battery life is only minimally impacted but Metro-style apps can run in the background, performing tasks like updating email and triggering notifications. So what’s the catch? While Connected Standby works and is available on all Windows RT devices, only Windows 8 devices running the very latest chipsets support this functionality. And today, that means only those PCs and devices based on the Atom “Clover Trail” processor.

Compatibility. While Windows RT is not compatible with any desktop applications that are not preinstalled in the OS, you may be surprised how well it works with hardware peripherals such as printers, mice, keyboards, and even USB-based cellular broadband radios. That’s because both Windows 8 and RT have a new generation of so-called class drivers built in which allow these devices to work immediately. In Windows RT, that means you can connect a Bluetooth or USB keyboard and it will work immediately, no drivers needed. But in Windows 8, a more full-featured driver will likely download in the background, giving you additional functionality.

Media device vs. PC. While Microsoft is positioning Windows 8 and RT at what it now calls “devices,” I think its fairer to say that most Windows RT devices will be just that—devices—and that their primary mission will be more akin to that of a media tablet (i.e. iPad or Android tablet) that a true, full-featured PC. Meanwhile, Windows 8 will mostly be used in devices we would normally think of as PCs, even when they’re tablets, since they offer broader compatibility with traditional PC software and hardware. That said, both systems are in fact hybrid designs. So you can get real work done in RT and play games or listen to music in Windows 8. Still, when I think RT, I think devices/media consumption, and when I think Windows 8, I think PC.

In the coming weeks, many media organizations will offer their reviews of the Microsoft Surface and other Windows RT and Windows 8 devices. I’ll be reviewing some myself, though of course I can’t hope to match the widespread coverage of larger, fully staffed sites. So keep your eyes open and make sure you’ve read up on the products that interest you before buying anything. And do so knowing that the first generation of any product—especially something unproven like Windows RT—is sure to have at least a few issue and potential hiccups. We’re all excited by what’s happening, but there’s no rush: Windows 8 and RT will be with us for years to come and this is just the beginning.
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Compatibility. While Windows RT is not compatible with any desktop applications that are not preinstalled in the OS, you may be surprised how well it works with hardware peripherals such as printers, mice, keyboards, and even USB-based cellular broadband radios. That’s because both Windows 8 and RT have a new generation of so-called class drivers built in which allow these devices to work immediately. In Windows RT, that means you can connect a Bluetooth or USB keyboard and it will work immediately, no drivers needed. But in Windows 8, a more full-featured driver will likely download in the background, giving you additional functionality.
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I have to say, this is huge. I'm starting to feel like Windows RT might not actually be too bad to use as a fully-fledged OS. I mean, by this point, if you're only using Metro, what can't it do that Windows 8 can?
 
Izick said:
Depends on what you're going to use it for.
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Can you explain a situation or use case where RT would ever be preferable to Pro? Not being facetious, I'm genuinely curious what I'm overlooking. I was under the impression Clover Trail Pro tabs were the same price, were claimed to have comparable battery life, have access to everything RT does, AND have x86 compatibility.
 
NotTarts said:
I have to say, this is huge. I'm starting to feel like Windows RT might not actually be too bad to use as a fully-fledged OS. I mean, by this point, if you're only using Metro, what can't it do that Windows 8 can?
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Steam? Specialty programs (Adobe Premiere, etc.)?

Otherwise, it's great for consumption and productivity.
 
Reallink said:
Can you explain a situation or use case where RT would ever be preferable to Pro? Not being facetious, I'm genuinely curious what I'm overlooking. I was under the impression Clover Trail Pro tabs were the same price, were claimed to have comparable battery life, have access to everything RT does, AND have x86 compatibility.
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Seems to me that RTs will be much more locked down.

Meaning it would be much more difficult for someone who is bad with tech to screw it up.

I could definitely see buying an RT device over an 8 for my parents.
 
Kind of an odd question, but has Amazon said anything about putting instant streaming on Surface RT? I know they're all about the razor blades, but they've only brought that service to iPad, Fire (obviously) and some connected devices. I do 90 minutes of cardio daily and want something bigger than my iPhone 5 to consume videos on. I'm not a Netflix/Hulu member but I do belong to Prime and really like Windows 8 where it's appropriate (tablets!) / want a W8 device.
 
NotTarts said:
I have to say, this is huge. I'm starting to feel like Windows RT might not actually be too bad to use as a fully-fledged OS. I mean, by this point, if you're only using Metro, what can't it do that Windows 8 can?
Click to expand...

Are peripherals an issue with Android and iOS?

Seems more like an aspect of modern tablets that are more standard than anything.
 
metsallica said:
Kind of an odd question, but has Amazon said anything about putting instant streaming on Surface RT? I know they're all about the razor blades, but they've only brought that service to iPad, Fire (obviously) and some connected devices. I do 90 minutes of cardio daily and want something bigger than my iPhone 5 to consume videos on. I'm not a Netflix/Hulu member but I do belong to Prime and really like Windows 8 where it's appropriate (tablets!) / want a W8 device.
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Is it not possible to just stream in the RT IE browser?
 
Vyer said:
Are peripherals an issue with Android and iOS?

Seems more like an aspect of modern tablets that are more standard than anything.
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I don't think you can attach a flash drive or external HDD to an Android or iOS tablet. You can't use mice or USB keyboards either.
 
Dreams-Visions said:
Is it not possible to just stream in the RT IE browser?
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I'm not actually sure, I just figured it wasn't white listed! I've been running W8E at work since it launched so I will check tomorrow and potentially answer my own question! Heh. Assuming the compatability is the same between Metro/"modern"/Pro IE and RT IE of course.
 
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