Support NeoGAF

[Nero3000]

Right so I took the decision and pre-ordered the 64GB Surface with touch cover. Will wait for the next gen Surface Pro.

I also had a thought about what I would do with the next gen range of surface products:

Surface RT vNext
- 10.6" 1080p Screen
- Next gen ARM Processor
- 64GB/128GB Storage
- Active Digitiser for Stylus
- 3G/4G Options
- NFC
- Thunderbolt port


Surface Pro vNext
- 10.6" 1440p screen
- Intel next gen Haswell Processor
- 3G/4G Options
- NFC
- Intel WiDi
- 128GB/256GB options
- Thunderbolt port

New products:

Surface Light
- 10.6" 1080p screen with Stylus
- Intel next gent Silvermont atom processor
- 4GB DDR3LP RAM
- 128GB storage
- NFC/3G/4G
- Thunderbolt port

Surface Thunderbolt Display
- 24" 1440p IPS display
- Array of ports (Ethernet, USB)

Surface Graphics Dock
- External GPU through Thunderbolt port
- Can daisy chain with display
- Surface Pro and Light only

 

[Troll]

Microsoft will never be RIM or Palm. They do too much right. It's just that they're struggling to find a way to lead in emerging markets. Always a day late to the party.

I personally think their timing isn't BAD with their tablet approach...but I wonder. If I were MS, I'd *never* bring Office to iOS. I swear to God, it's the only piece of software keeping iOS from being the dominant tablet platform for the next decade. I think Office is that big a deal. I think MS should keep that trump card...but I know they won't.

I hope they won't and I don' think they will either, but complacency is never a good business practice.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Right so I took the decision and pre-ordered the 64GB Surface with touch cover. Will wait for the next gen Surface Pro.

I also had a thought about what I would do with the next gen range of surface products:

Surface RT vNext
- 10.6" 1080p Screen
- Next gen ARM Processor
- 64GB/128GB Storage
- Active Digitiser for Stylus
- 3G/4G Options
- NFC
- Thunderbolt port


Surface Pro vNext
- 10.6" 1440p screen
- Intel next gen Haswell Processor
- 3G/4G Options
- NFC
- Intel WiDi
- 128GB/256GB options
- Thunderbolt port

dunno if they can still hit the same price point with a 1080p screen in the cheap model.

 

[f0lken]

dunno if they can still hit the same price point with a 1080p screen in the cheap model.

Next year? They better, the Transformer now has a 1080p screen, so next year Vapormg materials and other components should be cheap enough to allow for a 1080p RT at the same price

 

[LukasTaves]

Right so I took the decision and pre-ordered the 64GB Surface with touch cover. Will wait for the next gen Surface Pro.

I also had a thought about what I would do with the next gen range of surface products:

Surface Light
- 10.6" 1080p screen with Stylus
- Intel next gent Silvermont atom processor
- 4GB DDR3LP RAM
- 128GB storage
- NFC/3G/4G
- Thunderbolt port

Surface Graphics Dock
- External GPU through Thunderbolt port
- Can daisy chain with display
- Surface Pro and Light only

I'll take those, thank you.

 

[Lynn616]

Haha no. Samsung's ATIV Smart PC Pro price is indicative of Surface Pro's price: ~$1200 for 128GB.

64 GB $999
128 GB $1099

 

[border]

128 GB $1099

+$100 for the Smart Cover

 

[Wiktor]

One of the things that I don't like about this things like the Lenovo Yoga is that the keyboard is always there atached which increases the weight son I don't see myself using them a lot on tablet mode.

It all depends on what you want really. Surface is a primarly a tablet that you can from time to time use as a laptop replacement. Yoga and convertibles are the opposite - primarly laptops that can from time to time be used as tablets. If you intend to use either device primarly as tablet or laptop then they're great solutions. If you intend to use both modes equally it's better to stick to transformer-like device.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

feel like microsoft really missed a trick by not allowing this to dock.
otherwise the device from a hardware perspective seems kind of perfect at this point.

I feel like they could release a 'smart dock' with the same clicky interface and do all the nice things like keyboard/mouse/monitor/LAN without much difficulty....

they should do that.

 

[f0lken]

It all depends on what you want really. Surface is a primarly a tablet that you can from time to time use as a laptop replacement. Yoga and convertibles are the opposite - primarly laptops that can from time to time be used as tablets. If you intend to use either device primarly as tablet or laptop then they're great solutions. If you intend to use both modes equally it's better to stick to transformer-like device.

Yeah, you are right that is why I'm more biased towards transformers, I am often in the outside so a tablet is more apropiate for me, that and I already have a built desktop on my home. And giving that the Surface RT won't even be in Mexico at launch that doesn't give me hopes for the Pro launch, so I made my mind and will buy the Ativ Pro this november, it all depends on reviews but I am now 90% decided.

feel like microsoft really missed a trick by not allowing this to dock.
otherwise the device from a hardware perspective seems kind of perfect at this point.

I feel like they could release a 'smart dock' with the same clicky interface and do all the nice things like keyboard/mouse/monitor/LAN without much difficulty....

they should do that.

Maybe they won't but it would be smart from MS to allow third parties to create such accesories, a dock with expanded battery would be awesome

 

[Wiktor]

I don't know one person who has one and bought it because of that. If anything, you might be more inclined to stick with an ipad if youve already invested a lot of $ on apps on an iPhone already or something, but because of iOS specifically? Thats a first.

Same reason why I would never switch to Mac or iPad from Windows.

 

[Wiktor]

feel like microsoft really missed a trick by not allowing this to dock.
otherwise the device from a hardware perspective seems kind of perfect at this point.

I feel like they could release a 'smart dock' with the same clicky interface and do all the nice things like keyboard/mouse/monitor/LAN without much difficulty....

they should do that.

I think the size is the problem. 10 inch seems perfect for tablet, but on laptop that's very crappy size and one that enforces very crappy keyboard.
If Surface becomes popular you can bet a year from now Microsoft will show 12-13 inch surface with dock.

 

[Nero3000]

So reviews are NDA'd till Tuesday 23rd.

 

[chuckddd]

So reviews are NDA'd till Tuesday 23rd.

That was a bad decision. Those reviews are sure to be overwhelmed by the unveiling of the you know what.

 

[Nero3000]

That was a bad decision. Those reviews are sure to be overwhelmed by the unveiling of the you know what.

Well first of all the decision was made before anything Apple was made public.

Besides it could go both ways if the Surface is positively reviewed and iPad Mini is deemed underwhelming due to the leaks.

 

[Souless_PJ]

Well first of all the decision was made before anything Apple was made public.

Besides it could go both ways if the Surface is positively reviewed and iPad Mini is deemed underwhelming due to the leaks.

Dunno man. iPad Air (calling it now) with the iPad 2 resolution + the touch panel bonding and sRGB colour saturation from iPhone 5, thin, light, LTE and half the price with the App Store backing it up - Surface might be a tough sell.

 

[chuckddd]

Well first of all the decision was made before anything Apple was made public.

Besides it could go both ways if the Surface is positively reviewed and iPad Mini is deemed underwhelming due to the leaks.

I'd suggest moving the date up while they still can. The mini and air will dominate tech news underwhelming, overwhelming or otherwise.

 

[SeanR1221]

Dunno man. iPad Air (calling it now) with the iPad 2 resolution + the touch panel bonding and sRGB colour saturation from iPhone 5, thin, light, LTE and half the price with the App Store backing it up - Surface might be a tough sell.

I've been saying this from the beginning. The WiiU is in danger from the iPad mini too.

 

[strata8]

Dunno man. iPad Air (calling it now) with the iPad 2 resolution + the touch panel bonding and sRGB colour saturation from iPhone 5, thin, light, LTE and half the price with the App Store backing it up - Surface might be a tough sell.

I don't feel like the iPad Mini and other 7" tablets would be directly competing with the Surface. They're just not capable enough IMO.

 

[SeanR1221]

I don't feel like the iPad Mini and other 7" tablets would be directly competing with the Surface. They're just not capable enough IMO.

It depends what people want out of a tablet. If you we're talking to someone in the market, who wouldn't understand any technical term you throw at them, even something like ram, how would you sell a surface to them? How about if they already have an iPhone with a lot of apps?

 

[everthustodeadbeats]

I don't feel like the iPad Mini and other 7" tablets would be directly competing with the Surface. They're just not capable enough IMO.

Of course they are capable, in fact, unless you're talking Surface Pro, 7 inch tablets will make Surface RT a distant 4th or 5th place player.

I want to hear more Surface Pro talk. Surface RT feels like a dead end, a Vista, a Zune, a product that is likely to fail.

 

[Wiktor]

Dunno man. iPad Air (calling it now) with the iPad 2 resolution + the touch panel bonding and sRGB colour saturation from iPhone 5, thin, light, LTE and half the price with the App Store backing it up - Surface might be a tough sell.

Ughh...sorry...but 1024x768 is way to low on tablet, no matter how good color saturation is has.
Crappy screen is the main problem iPad mini will have.

 

[brotkasten]

Ughh...sorry...but 1024x768 is way to low on tablet, no matter how good color saturation is has.
Crappy screen is the main problem iPad mini will have.

1366x768 on 10.6" isn't great either.

 

[strata8]

Of course they are capable, in fact, unless you're talking Surface Pro, 7 inch tablets will make Surface RT a distant 4th or 5th place player.

I want to hear more Surface Pro talk. Surface RT feels like a dead end, a Vista, a Zune, a product that is likely to fail.

What I mean is that I've been using an iPad for a while and I've come to the conclusion that it really too restricted to fully replace any sort of laptop or desktop computer. Regardless of what Apple might tell you, it's still incredibly restricted as a standalone device, especially if you don't own a Mac. On the other hand I've tried out Metro and there are a few features that put it head and shoulders above the iPad (I've posted these before):

- File system access
- USB support (external keyboard/mice + flash drives/external HDDs/external DVD drives + cameras, etc)
- Native, effective support for keyboards/mice/trackpads in all apps
- Networking across the entire OS with other devices, including laptops and desktops
- Decent multitasking (ie, two programs at once)
- Expandable storage
- App contracts. These are incredibly powerful and nothing like anything on Android or iOS. I can, for example, save a file directly into Skydrive from any app, or send media from any app to any device that supports DLNA.
- Support for multiple resolutions (ie, direct HDMI into TV)

Android-based devices can do some of that, but the iPad really can't do any of it.

 

[SeanR1221]

I guess it's all relative. A windows tablet, and to a degree android tablet, couldn't come close to replacing my iPad for work.

 

[Wiktor]

1366x768 on 10.6" isn't great either.

Yes. But it's managable. 1024x on 7 inch isn't. Might as well pull out a phone.

 

[everthustodeadbeats]

What I mean is that I've been using an iPad for a while and I've come to the conclusion that it really too restricted to fully replace any sort of laptop or desktop computer. Regardless of what Apple might tell you, it's still incredibly restricted as a standalone device, especially if you don't own a Mac. On the other hand I've tried out Metro and there are a few features that put it head and shoulders above the iPad (I've posted these before):

- File system access
- USB support (external keyboard/mice + flash drives/external HDDs/external DVD drives + cameras, etc)
- Native, effective support for keyboards/mice/trackpads in all apps
- Networking across the entire OS with other devices, including laptops and desktops
- Decent multitasking (ie, two programs at once)
- Expandable storage
- App contracts. These are incredibly powerful and nothing like anything on Android or iOS. I can, for example, save a file directly into Skydrive from any app, or send media from any app to any device that supports DLNA.
- Support for multiple resolutions (ie, direct HDMI into TV)

Android-based devices can do some of that, but the iPad really can't do any of it.

There are uncomplicated ways to do some of those on iOS. Have an AppleTV gets your video to your tv from phones and tablets.

The problem is these machines are priced too high, and you're going to be at the mercy of a very young, infant-like walled garden for apps. If I were in anyone's shoes here that wants a Surface, I'd definitely recommend to wait and go Pro. At least you'll have plenty of real Windows apps to run on the device, you can run a full version of MS Office.

I've never seen a good example of multitasking for the traditional tablet that is compelling enough to show me that the iOS workaround isn't good enough. Maybe uploading videos to youtube while browsing?

 

[TCRS]

With all these new tablet-laptop hybrids, is now a good time to buy a netbook? they are going out of fashion but are still very cheap and the ideal solution for a student on a budget, no?

This Packar Bell netbook for example:

http://www.amazon.de/dp/B0079DIPCG/ (couldn't find it on amazon uk)

I would love a surface tablet but it's too expensive.

 

[maeh2k]

With all these new tablet-laptop hybrids, is now a good time to buy a netbook? they are going out of fashion but are still very cheap and the ideal solution for a student on a budget, no?

This Packar Bell netbook for example:

http://www.amazon.de/dp/B0079DIPCG/ (couldn't find it on amazon uk)

I would love a surface tablet but it's too expensive.

There are still various different netbooks and I believe some are really decent if you want that kind of small device (some bigger notebooks aren't much more expensive).

But I would advise against that particular one. It has a 1024x600 display (going by the comments on amazon). Competing netbooks offer 1366x768. That's not only better for browsing the web, but also great for running Windows 8. Since Windows 8 generally runs better on slow hardware than Windows 7, it would be a good fit for a netbook.

 

[coldfoot]

Yes. But it's managable. 1024x on 7 inch isn't. Might as well pull out a phone.

The iPad mini with 1024x768 resolution has a higher PPI (smaller pixels) than the surface RT at 1366x768.

 

[Damon Bennet]

With all these new tablet-laptop hybrids, is now a good time to buy a netbook? they are going out of fashion but are still very cheap and the ideal solution for a student on a budget, no?

This Packar Bell netbook for example:

http://www.amazon.de/dp/B0079DIPCG/ (couldn't find it on amazon uk)

I would love a surface tablet but it's too expensive.

that thing doesnt have an os installed, you would need to buy that seperately. otherwise: netbooks are usually a bother, I dont know about the newest generation, but the ones I worked with were horrible

 

[Cheebo]

Ughh...sorry...but 1024x768 is way to low on tablet, no matter how good color saturation is has.
Crappy screen is the main problem iPad mini will have.

iPad mini is probably going to have a fantastic IPS display, just a low resolution. It will likely be bonded to the actual glass unlike the iPad 3 and have better color saturation than the iPad 3 despite a lower resolution

 

[plagiarize]

There are uncomplicated ways to do some of those on iOS. Have an AppleTV gets your video to your tv from phones and tablets.

The problem is these machines are priced too high, and you're going to be at the mercy of a very young, infant-like walled garden for apps. If I were in anyone's shoes here that wants a Surface, I'd definitely recommend to wait and go Pro. At least you'll have plenty of real Windows apps to run on the device, you can run a full version of MS Office.

I've never seen a good example of multitasking for the traditional tablet that is compelling enough to show me that the iOS workaround isn't good enough. Maybe uploading videos to youtube while browsing?

not that i disagree with many of these points, but i'm not really sure what solution their is for an immature App store beyond going back in time and launching before apple. i don't think you can expect Microsoft to cut the price of the hardware early on, just because the software isn't widely available yet.

the Pro is going to be a great device for anyone looking for something of that form factor that can operate as their main work station too (that's my plan for one at work) but the RT is going to have it beaten as a pure tablet in terms of thickness, weight, noise and most likely battery life.

most desktop applications aren't going to be particularly touch friendly. the Pro is good for someone that doesn't just want a tablet. the RT is looking like a great tablet. Windows RT is a really smartly designed touch based OS. the way it prints, emails, multitasks, etc. like Windows Phone 7.5, it's lacking in apps, sure, but the out of the box experience is really solid. you aren't left wanting for much else because all the major boxes are really well covered. games support is going to improve, though it's going to be a long road to catch up. but other than that... it's a really good tablet OS already.

the Pro is for people that want their tablet to function on a desk at work, or as a laptop, much more often. the RT is good for occasional laptop esque use, but mainly it's a tablet, and when being used as a pure tablet, i don't think the pro offers enough in it's tablet experience to be worth the presumed extra $500.

 

[LukasTaves]

What I mean is that I've been using an iPad for a while and I've come to the conclusion that it really too restricted to fully replace any sort of laptop or desktop computer. Regardless of what Apple might tell you, it's still incredibly restricted as a standalone device, especially if you don't own a Mac. On the other hand I've tried out Metro and there are a few features that put it head and shoulders above the iPad (I've posted these before):

- File system access
- USB support (external keyboard/mice + flash drives/external HDDs/external DVD drives + cameras, etc)
- Native, effective support for keyboards/mice/trackpads in all apps
- Networking across the entire OS with other devices, including laptops and desktops
- Decent multitasking (ie, two programs at once)
- Expandable storage
- App contracts. These are incredibly powerful and nothing like anything on Android or iOS. I can, for example, save a file directly into Skydrive from any app, or send media from any app to any device that supports DLNA.
- Support for multiple resolutions (ie, direct HDMI into TV)

Android-based devices can do some of that, but the iPad really can't do any of it.

While i do agree completely with that, i wonder what of these will come first: Apple stepping ios up to the game, or windows 8 receiving the same support ios has now.

Apple is a very resourceful company, if they really want they can match most of those features by ios7, and the behemoth that their developer support is will be ready to those features really soon after that.

And i doubt that w8 will come anywhere near ios regarding support in just one year...

It's all a matter of what Apple is willing to do or not, but i doubt they will be standing on their asses if they see the more openness in w8 start making the tables turn.

 

[plagiarize]

While i do agree completely with that, i wonder what of these will come first: Apple stepping ios up to the game, or windows 8 receiving the same support ios has now.

Apple is a very resourceful company, if they really want they can match most of those features by ios7, and the behemoth that their developer support is will be ready to those features really soon after that.

And i doubt that w8 will come anywhere near ios regarding support in just one year...

It's all a matter of what Apple is willing to do or not, but i doubt they will be standing on their asses if they see the more openness in w8 start making the tables turn.

it's going to come down to developers. i think we'll see a lot of 'big' windows applications getting Windows Store touch friendly versions, similar to what MS have done with One Note. that's Microsoft's best hope really, not to try and kill the desktop applications, but to try and piggyback App Store versions off the back of them.

let the desktop continue to thrive and demonstrate that people will want a touch friendly version for their tablet, transformer, or touchscreen.

look at something like AutoCad and imagine the value of a touch friendly yet well featured .dwg viewer that supports full 3D rendering and what have you that would be incredibly useful on site for displaying drawings etc on a Pro, that you could then just slap in a keyboard to make quick updates to in full autocad in your car or at a desk somewhere.

i'm not going to be shocked if we see Steam and Origin applications, even if you can't buy or launch games directly from them. Steam could easily link to it's web store for completing a purchase but still give you access to your friends and community. i know the public stance on such things Valve etc have made, so i wouldn't be surprised if they didn't either, but i think it's foolish to presume it won't happen.

you'll get your equivalents to all the big name 'apps' even if you don't get the big name apps themselves. a full browser is going to cover over a lot of the gaps that you see in windows phone too.

again, the big thing is gaming. that's going to be the hardest thing to build up... but i think it can succeed without it, through enterprise and people that aren't looking for more than a couple of time wasters.

Apple will take any good ideas they can from it. just as MS will do the same from Apple's OS, but both will keep their distinctive look and feel, no doubt. as consumers, we should want every option to have all the good features after all. Apple have already 'borrowed' some ideas from Windows Phone 7, so thinking otherwise is daft.

it's all going to come down to Windows 8. it's either going to be seen as one of MSs biggest failures, or best gambles. it's a pretty exciting time for tech.

 

[everthustodeadbeats]

not that i disagree with many of these points, but i'm not really sure what solution their is for an immature App store beyond going back in time and launching before apple. i don't think you can expect Microsoft to cut the price of the hardware early on, just because the software isn't widely available yet.

the Pro is going to be a great device for anyone looking for something of that form factor that can operate as their main work station too (that's my plan for one at work) but the RT is going to have it beaten as a pure tablet in terms of thickness, weight, noise and most likely battery life.

most desktop applications aren't going to be particularly touch friendly. the Pro is good for someone that doesn't just want a tablet. the RT is looking like a great tablet. Windows RT is a really smartly designed touch based OS. the way it prints, emails, multitasks, etc. like Windows Phone 7.5, it's lacking in apps, sure, but the out of the box experience is really solid. you aren't left wanting for much else because all the major boxes are really well covered. games support is going to improve, though it's going to be a long road to catch up. but other than that... it's a really good tablet OS already.

the Pro is for people that want their tablet to function on a desk at work, or as a laptop, much more often. the RT is good for occasional laptop esque use, but mainly it's a tablet, and when being used as a pure tablet, i don't think the pro offers enough in it's tablet experience to be worth the presumed extra $500.

You make great points, but I would argue that the Surface RT does not offer enough of a tablet experience as it is young and it's prone to be left to die if the Surface Pro enjoys economies of scale and the price comes down significantly. If the Surface RT was the dreamed 300 bucks, I wouldn't have a problem jumping in. But I'd rather get the tablet experience and as insurance, the full laptop experience with the Surface Pro than invest 700 bucks in something that will likely not take off.

Until the Surface RT comes down in price, and rapidly, it cannot compete with Kindle Fire, Nexus 7, iPad retina or iPad mini. So I'd rather throw an extra 300-500 bucks more into the potential fire, because at least you're getting a full laptop with the Pro.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

You make great points, but I would argue that the Surface RT does not offer enough of a tablet experience as it is young and it's prone to be left to die if the Surface Pro enjoys economies of scale and the price comes down significantly. If the Surface RT was the dreamed 300 bucks, I wouldn't have a problem jumping in. But I'd rather get the tablet experience and as insurance, the full laptop experience with the Surface Pro than invest 700 bucks in something that will likely not take off.

Until the Surface RT comes down in price, and rapidly, it cannot compete with Kindle Fire, Nexus 7, iPad retina or iPad mini. So I'd rather throw an extra 300-500 bucks more into the potential fire, because at least you're getting a full laptop with the Pro.

hard to disagree right now. sales figures over the next couple of months will be very interesting indeed. they'll never enter a tougher market.

 

[outunderthestars]

hard to disagree right now. sales figures over the next couple of months will be very interesting indeed. they'll never enter a tougher market.

That is an understatement. Ipad, iPad mini, nook hd, kindle fires, and the Nexus 7 and 10, and the Asus transformer line are all somewhat major competitors.

MS has their work cut out for them with Windows RT as I don't really see any truly compelling features for the average consumer.

 

[jagowar]

You make great points, but I would argue that the Surface RT does not offer enough of a tablet experience as it is young and it's prone to be left to die if the Surface Pro enjoys economies of scale and the price comes down significantly. If the Surface RT was the dreamed 300 bucks, I wouldn't have a problem jumping in. But I'd rather get the tablet experience and as insurance, the full laptop experience with the Surface Pro than invest 700 bucks in something that will likely not take off.

Until the Surface RT comes down in price, and rapidly, it cannot compete with Kindle Fire, Nexus 7, iPad retina or iPad mini. So I'd rather throw an extra 300-500 bucks more into the potential fire, because at least you're getting a full laptop with the Pro.

Or do what I am planning on doing.... pre-ordered the surface RT almost as a beta test. I am going to use this as my full time pc over the next few months and then decide to sell it and get the pro. but I can use these next few months to see if the windows store fills out enough to see if it can work as my main pc.

In the worst case scenario I lose $50 selling RT off what I paid to upgrade to the pro but if the win8 store fills out nicely no need to wait.

 

[JaggedSac]

Or do what I am planning on doing.... pre-ordered the surface RT almost as a beta test. I am going to use this as my full time pc over the next few months and then decide to sell it and get the pro. but I can use these next few months to see if the windows store fills out enough to see if it can work as my main pc.

In the worst case scenario I lose $50 selling RT off what I paid to upgrade to the pro but if the win8 store fills out nicely no need to wait.

I was thinking of doing the same(except I won't be using it as a full time pc), but I think we would probably be out more than $50.

 

[strata8]

You make great points, but I would argue that the Surface RT does not offer enough of a tablet experience as it is young and it's prone to be left to die if the Surface Pro enjoys economies of scale and the price comes down significantly. If the Surface RT was the dreamed 300 bucks, I wouldn't have a problem jumping in. But I'd rather get the tablet experience and as insurance, the full laptop experience with the Surface Pro than invest 700 bucks in something that will likely not take off.

Until the Surface RT comes down in price, and rapidly, it cannot compete with Kindle Fire, Nexus 7, iPad retina or iPad mini. So I'd rather throw an extra 300-500 bucks more into the potential fire, because at least you're getting a full laptop with the Pro.

The fate of the Windows Store doesn't rest on the Surface RT's shoulders. You're forgetting that the Windows 8 ecosystem spreads across all Windows 8 and RT devices, including laptops, tablets (Surface Pro and Surface RT), and desktops. Success in any one of these areas will result in an increase of apps regardless of the success of the Surface RT itself.

The only way that the Surface RT could truly fail as a device is if Metro apps don't see any adoption in any form factor, which is unlikely considering the influx of touch-enabled Windows devices this holiday season.

 

[plagiarize]

You make great points, but I would argue that the Surface RT does not offer enough of a tablet experience as it is young and it's prone to be left to die if the Surface Pro enjoys economies of scale and the price comes down significantly. If the Surface RT was the dreamed 300 bucks, I wouldn't have a problem jumping in. But I'd rather get the tablet experience and as insurance, the full laptop experience with the Surface Pro than invest 700 bucks in something that will likely not take off.

Until the Surface RT comes down in price, and rapidly, it cannot compete with Kindle Fire, Nexus 7, iPad retina or iPad mini. So I'd rather throw an extra 300-500 bucks more into the potential fire, because at least you're getting a full laptop with the Pro.

it may or may not compare favorably to those competitors on specs/pricing/popular apps whatever, but Windows RT offers a very 'complete' tablet experience out of the box already. it's great for email, web browsing, video chatting, looking at and sharing photos, listen to music and watching videos. it already does those things really well. i think that covers what most people want in a tablet. the gaming experience definately isn't there yet, though, as i keep mentioning, and i know a sizable chunk of iPad owners care about gaming.

i'm not sure how much time you've spent in the metro area of windows 8 or RT. until last night i'd not spent much time there myself, having been in the desktop the vast majority of the time, but with the most recent versions of Mail, People, Photos, Music, Video etc you've got a fully featured tablet OS that handles all those key tasks at least as well as iOS and Android does.

 

[LukasTaves]

it's going to come down to developers. i think we'll see a lot of 'big' windows applications getting Windows Store touch friendly versions, similar to what MS have done with One Note. that's Microsoft's best hope really, not to try and kill the desktop applications, but to try and piggyback App Store versions off the back of them.

let the desktop continue to thrive and demonstrate that people will want a touch friendly version for their tablet, transformer, or touchscreen.

look at something like AutoCad and imagine the value of a touch friendly yet well featured .dwg viewer that supports full 3D rendering and what have you that would be incredibly useful on site for displaying drawings etc on a Pro, that you could then just slap in a keyboard to make quick updates to in full autocad in your car or at a desk somewhere.

i'm not going to be shocked if we see Steam and Origin applications, even if you can't buy or launch games directly from them. Steam could easily link to it's web store for completing a purchase but still give you access to your friends and community. i know the public stance on such things Valve etc have made, so i wouldn't be surprised if they didn't either, but i think it's foolish to presume it won't happen.

you'll get your equivalents to all the big name 'apps' even if you don't get the big name apps themselves. a full browser is going to cover over a lot of the gaps that you see in windows phone too.

again, the big thing is gaming. that's going to be the hardest thing to build up... but i think it can succeed without it, through enterprise and people that aren't looking for more than a couple of time wasters.

Apple will take any good ideas they can from it. just as MS will do the same from Apple's OS, but both will keep their distinctive look and feel, no doubt. as consumers, we should want every option to have all the good features after all. Apple have already 'borrowed' some ideas from Windows Phone 7, so thinking otherwise is daft.

it's all going to come down to Windows 8. it's either going to be seen as one of MSs biggest failures, or best gambles. it's a pretty exciting time for tech.

Very well said. I agree completely.

Currently the windows store is more open than apple regarding payments too. An hypothetical steam client for instance would be able to purchase games inside the app, just not install or launch them. (Which is all the more reason for apps like these to show up on store)

 

[strata8]

Very well said. I agree completely.

Currently the windows store is more open than apple regarding payments too. An hypothetical steam client for instance would be able to purchase games inside the app, just not install or launch them. (Which is all the more reason for apps like these to show up on store)

Windows 8 also supports the greatest variety of development languages, too:
- HTML/Javascript/CSS (this is huge - consider the amount of web developers out there)
- Visual Basic
- C#
- C++/DirectX

Compare that to iOS:
- Objective-C

And Android:
- Java + some C++

It's an incredibly accessible platform in almost every aspect.

 

[Wiktor]

iPad mini is probably going to have a fantastic IPS display, just a low resolution. It will likely be bonded to the actual glass unlike the iPad 3 and have better color saturation than the iPad 3 despite a lower resolution

doesn't matter how well it is bonded. 1024x means it's a crappy screen.
Microsoft gives the same excuse for Surface RT and it still doesn't change anything.

 

[plagiarize]

Very well said. I agree completely.

Currently the windows store is more open than apple regarding payments too. An hypothetical steam client for instance would be able to purchase games inside the app, just not install or launch them. (Which is all the more reason for apps like these to show up on store)

i honestly don't know if MS are putting restrictions on alternate stores, if they're for desktop applications. maybe someone more aware of the requirements that have to be met for an app going into the MS store knows better. i know apple doesn't allow 3rd party app stores, so i just presumed MS wouldn't put up any third party stores even for desktop content in the MS store.

 

[Ghost]

Windows 8 also supports the greatest variety of development languages, too:
- HTML/Javascript/CSS (this is huge - consider the amount of web developers out there)
- Visual Basic
- C#
- C++/DirectX

Compare that to iOS:
- Objective-C

And Android:
- Java + some C++

It's an incredibly accessible platform in almost every aspect.

I've been making HTML apps for Android and iOS for years, also Lua, there's even middleware that lets you code native iOS apps in Java.

The big issue on Windows 8 is that none of my UI code is reusable because the design language is so different. It is nice to not have to use Cordova to build HTML apps on Windows 8 but ultimately it just brings them to parity with the other platforms.

 

[coldfoot]

The only way that the Surface RT could truly fail as a device is if Metro apps don't see any adoption in any form factor, which is unlikely considering the influx of touch-enabled Windows devices this holiday season.

I maintain that Metro apps will see little to no adoption in the traditional notebook/desktop market. However, they have a decent chance with touch devices.

 

[coldfoot]

doesn't matter how well it is bonded. 1024x means it's a crappy screen.
Microsoft gives the same excuse for Surface RT and it still doesn't change anything.

It's an OK screen for $250 price point. The RT screen is unacceptable for its price point.

 

[Xplatformer]

And...I'm sold.

Put out a decent game that will let me use my 360 controller...BAM!

LOL....release a Halo spin off FPS...even if it has shite graphics...

I know a few years ago...I saw someone using a PSP to remote into their PS3 to play their PS3 game.

Why couldn't something similar be done with the surface?