Star Wars: TOR Free 2 Play - Will you play it?
- Thread starter Blablurn
- Start date
What other retail MMO that change their system to F2P still had 500k subscriber? Because i dont know one and thats the most important thing why there are so many restrictions from get go. If they wouldnt restrict it, they would lose subscribers, so millions of dolars, but with restrictions and correct CC pricing they can gain a lot more players that will pay less than subscriber is while still keeping subscribers around, and thats their goal.
They went F2P way sooner that they should, because they can get more money, not because they are closing game.
I havent seen even one exclusive subscriber feature, except maybe for wallet restriction. And weekly passes priced right can still be viable, for me 4 week passes shouldnt be more expensive than subscription, so they should cost around 10$.
Now its all about CC pricing.
I was quite digging TOR at launch, but tapped out after a few weeks, due to it being just not good enough for the monthly. Was very interested in the F2P launch though and would have been happy playing it, dropping a few quid here and there. After reading the restrictions though.....
BattleMonkey
Member
You can't buy extra character slots for one, that is subscriber exclusive. Can't send mail unless you sub, and bunch of chat functions cant be used either unless you sub.
Also weekly passes even if cheap basically require a player to buy other unlocks or those passes become useless. For example you basically HAVE to buy gear restriction unlocks to even enjoy any of the gear you get from the stuff you do with those weekly passes. And vendor costs right now are being raised for F2P players, while they are being capped also making it impossible to earn majority of items with their comendations or tokens unless they pay for the unlocks. They aren't simply being restricted to how much they can do or making it take longer, they literally have put up walls that require them to pay. And right now on test server, the caps on currency can't be raised with a microtransaction for most of it, you have to actually subscribe.
So even if you are using weekly passes and have bought a bunch of unlocks, you can't even redeem or earn many things in game unless you sub because of these currency caps that can't be removed. Bought your pvp weekly passes? That's nice, too bad the commendations you are earning from them can't be used for majority of the gear since its behind the subscriber cap. Same with rewards from flashpoints and operations, you can buy the passes to play but you can't fully earn rewards from any of them due to the caps which in turn makes bothering with weekly passes pointless.
Spehornoob
Member
Cut the fat from TOR and you would have a perfectly passable RPG. Unfortunately, the fat and the shitty MMO aspects kill it.
I was considering logging on to finish my Sith Warrior story (it's pretty standard, but fun). With these awful restrictions though, I don't really have a reason to.
I was considering logging on to finish my Sith Warrior story (it's pretty standard, but fun). With these awful restrictions though, I don't really have a reason to.
spindoctor
Member
They're... limiting the UI for free players?!
Worst F2P implementation in history confirmed.
Worst F2P implementation in history confirmed.
I'm pretty sure that those unlock once You buy anything, same like Sprint and Chat
http://www.swtor.com/free/features
About equipment:
Authorization: Artifact Equipment 1200
This Authorization allows you to equip and use most Artifact quality gear and item modifications
So yes, You can unlock it with CC. Will it cost more than one time subscription? Probably, but it will stay on Your account forever.
BTW You can buy unlock things for specific character or for a whole account, by the comments under article.
I actually left TOR installed and fully patched after my sub lapsed in looking forward to F2P. The restrictions, however, are so hilariously bad that I'm just gonna uninstall now. In trying to make the game more appealing to get into, they somehow totally fucked that up and made it less.
Rockandrollclown
lookwhatyou'vedone
I thought this might be something I would be interested in, but looking at those restrictions, hell no. This seems like a really bad implementation of F2P, hopefully other MMO devs keep an eye on this to see what not to do.
BattleMonkey
Member
Again, you can't buy or get rid of currency unlocks. As I said even if you get weekly passes, the gear rewards from that content will not be available without that extra unlock. But that also become more useless because of the fact that currency caps stop you from getting majority of equipment. You but the equipment unlock, but majority of the gear still is hidden behind the subscriber wall. Paying for weekly passes is pointless unless you plan on playing once in a blue moon and just don't care about any rewards, otherwise if your going to invest any time into the game, you HAVE to subscribe to get access to full rewards.
Exact chat functionality unlocked with having spent some money is not known yet, nor whether it will unlock mail access even.
This is their problem. They're trying to drive more people into subscriptions instead of actually making a sustainable F2P model.
F2P doesn't mean you're closing the game for any decent F2P game. Hell, most MMOs nowadays are F2P from day one. LOTRO has had three expansions released since they went F2P.
Bioware seems to be caught up in this idea that F2P is somehow a statement of value instead of a business model. They think their game is "too good" for F2P, even though the higher ups at EA say they have to do it, so they restrict the hell out of free players in order to (they think) force them to subscribe.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Seriously. This really is turning into the perfect example of "How to make a terrible F2P model that appeals to no one"
To me it seems like they're being dragged kicking and screaming into F2P and don't want to properly implement it because it would be "admitting" that your game and your business plan failed. It's like trying to get someone to admit they were wrong and they cross their arms and can only mutter under their breath "you were right".
The bizzare thing about this though is that they are pushing free players in the exact wrong direction for the benefit of the game. They're basically motivating free guys to just run through the story sections of the game for free. Which is great and all for me because that's all I care about but it doesn't make me a valuable fish to the subscriber whales.
They should want me to participate in as many flashpoints and warzones as possible as it'll keep those parts of the game busier, easier to find groups and better for everyone. They should want free players to be crafting and participating in the global market as well as it provides more buyers and sellers to keep that part of the game fun. Why they're hiding every Massively Multiplayer aspect of their online game behind a paywall is beyond me. They're turning the game into a grindy single player game with 8 story lines.
Which is *perfect* for me as I have a high tolerance for grind and enjoy Bioware story lines, but they're not going to make any money off of me and they're not going to get me to be a valuable participant in the group finder for other people on the server.
They should want me to participate in as many flashpoints and warzones as possible as it'll keep those parts of the game busier, easier to find groups and better for everyone. They should want free players to be crafting and participating in the global market as well as it provides more buyers and sellers to keep that part of the game fun. Why they're hiding every Massively Multiplayer aspect of their online game behind a paywall is beyond me. They're turning the game into a grindy single player game with 8 story lines.
Which is *perfect* for me as I have a high tolerance for grind and enjoy Bioware story lines, but they're not going to make any money off of me and they're not going to get me to be a valuable participant in the group finder for other people on the server.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
I'll admit that there is probably a fine line between having a model that encourages both subscriptions and premium-based microtransaction purchases, and a model that overly-punishes non-subscribers so that subscribing is really the only way to enjoy the meat of the game. This model is way past that line, though.
There are a lot of things that they are flat-out blocking behind a paywall that should be possible but much more time-intensive/grindy to unlock. I mentioned in the SWTOR community thread that I really like the DDO model of permanent feature unlocks that can be achieved from both real money and in-game grinding. Things like quickbars should absolutely be off the table, though. Locking out core game mechanics isn't the sort of thing that encourages people to sub, it's the kind of thing that encourages people to never play the game again.
There are a lot of things that they are flat-out blocking behind a paywall that should be possible but much more time-intensive/grindy to unlock. I mentioned in the SWTOR community thread that I really like the DDO model of permanent feature unlocks that can be achieved from both real money and in-game grinding. Things like quickbars should absolutely be off the table, though. Locking out core game mechanics isn't the sort of thing that encourages people to sub, it's the kind of thing that encourages people to never play the game again.
RPGCrazied
Member
Not going to play with that updated list of restrictions. Limiting chat is fucking stupid, so is not trading with players.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Yeah, I kinda just stopped there.
I don't know what to say really. Textbook example for how to make something that's been unattractive to consumers as-is just as ugly even when it's free.
I'm still probably gonna try to finish my class stories though, sucker that I am.
BannedEpisode
Member
I played for a couple months at launch, played with a friend and had a pretty fun time.
We ended up quitting when there wasnt anything to do after hitting max level.
This nonsense seems like they are trying make their F2P system fail. Its horrific.
I was hoping to come back and play through another class story but this seems shitty as all hell.
We ended up quitting when there wasnt anything to do after hitting max level.
This nonsense seems like they are trying make their F2P system fail. Its horrific.
I was hoping to come back and play through another class story but this seems shitty as all hell.
Mister_Bubbles
Member
That list is like a parody.
Jeez...
Jeez...
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
Yes, I also hope your company gets shut down. Losing a job is fun, isn't it?
Seriously, if people don't want to play a game that's fine but hoping that hundreds of people are put out of work is just stupid.
I did the same thing and was thinking about coming back with the free 2 play but after seeing this list there is no reason.
I bought Guild Wars 2 it is free 2 play done right. Also everything feels so much better in GW2 the only thing I liked better in TOR was the story telling.
Seems like many of the top people at bioware feel the same and are getting out before the ship sinks.
I personally wouldn't want to see people lose jobs but the biggest problem is EA doesn't know how to run an MMO unless they are trying to run it into the ground.
BattleMonkey
Member
They just updated and are removing some restrictions due to the feedback from testers: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5324230#post5324230
So no more 1 hotbar only and other tweaks
So no more 1 hotbar only and other tweaks
RPGCrazied
Member
Still not enough.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
According to someone on PA, "they switched the test server to f2p and it looks like free players get ONE action bar".
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
Come on. If a product is unattractive and the company releasing the product seems to be making every effort to make it even worse, that product deserves to fail. What's the alternative? Every product or company that ever existed should keep existing regardless of their quality or policy because "oh no the jobs?"
Bad ideas have to fail so they stop being used and people learn to use better ideas. Realizing this doesn't make someone vindictive.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
That's all fine, if people lose their jobs because their company is run by morons then that's simply bad luck. I just don't understand people who cheer for game companies to go under. It's a fucking video game, they're not drilling for oil and doing harm to the planet.
People need to keep in mind that all this stuff is still on the test center and hopefully they relax some of these restrictions before this goes live. Personally I still love the game I'll keep my sub so nothing changes for me but some of the restrictions for F2P players are pretty ridiculous.
EDIT: and it looks like they've done that.
Deserving to fail is not the same thing as saying "I really hope this fails and the game gets shut down".
I never said anything about shutting BioWare down or people losing jobs.
I already knew someone with faux-rage would jump at me for that post, though.
BattleMonkey
Member
Update also on preferred status: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5324114#edit5324114
Similar to DCUO and such where if you spend any money at all, you get various benefits and restrictions lightened/removed.
Hoping the game gets shut down, what do you expect to happen to the hundreds of people working on it?
They did, people complained to high hell and now they are going to change it to two action bars. Still kinda sucky but it's playable at least with 2. Game would have been unplayable with only one bar.
Similar to DCUO and such where if you spend any money at all, you get various benefits and restrictions lightened/removed.
Hoping the game gets shut down, what do you expect to happen to the hundreds of people working on it?
They did, people complained to high hell and now they are going to change it to two action bars. Still kinda sucky but it's playable at least with 2. Game would have been unplayable with only one bar.
Someone in their office has absolutely no concept of basic economics.
Incentives for paid services: Good!
Creating an entry barrier to an already bad player retention environment: BAD!
What they've done here: OMGWHATAREYOUDOING
Its standard feature of almost every F2P out there. It must be there to limit bots and scams.
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No, its not their problem, because they dont need to make sustainable F2P only model yet. They have 500k subscribers, why should they ditch them completely? Because of hate posts on boards? Please.
Yes, there are F2P game from day one, but they dont have 7.5m$ income since the beginning.
If they lose enough subscriptions, they will alter F2P model, but for now it would be stupid decision.
They could easily stay as subscription based MMO, but the way they are doing it right now, people like me or some of my friends will be able to play it from time to time. Its win-win for Bioware.
If You are looking at TOR only from one perspective, a player who plays daily and see this as a standard F2P model. Its not standard by any means.
I'm looking at it, as a extensive trial and then pay once model if You want stay to longer. Weekly passes are ok, because if You want to play it daily, You can sub for month or two [its max 30$, and You still get 1000 CC], but if You want to get back to the game and do some stuff like pvp, or level new char for a week or two, You can buy passes for less.
Its really simple: for people who are playing daily there is subscription, for players who want to play it from time to time, there are passes and unlocks.
If they would stay as subscription only MMO, i couldnt play it, so they would lose revenue from people like me, if they would put less restrictions, they would lose subscriptions and lose money.
Its not really bad model in my opinion, its definitely not terrible or disaster like people are claiming here.
Of course everything can be improved, prices can be altered, unlocks can be changed etc, but if CC price will be low enough, I honestly think its a great start for TOR.
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They would have to do new features and gameplay elements that dont break current balance, to make it that way.
Basically they would need to unlock whole current game for F2P and make completely new gameplay features that are always unlocked for subscribers and desired to be unlocked by F2P players, to satisfy people like You.
Ps. They are doing exactly the same thing now, but with existing content.
I'm not expecting anything to happen to anyone. I just wish the game didn't exist so it would stop offending the KOTOR fan in me.
People need to stop reading too much into every single post. I know jumping at every opportunity to take the high moral ground on the internet is fun, but it gets tiring to watch.
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
I'm still totally unimpressed that they "caved" and added a 2nd bar to F2P. Action bars in general are not something that should be micromanaged like this. It's an absolutely necessary, core game mechanic, and as such should be totally off the table when it comes to subscriber versus f2p/preferred distinctions. It sets a pretty atrocious precedent and is indicative of a totally broken, ass-backwards thought process for the folks planning the F2P transition.
This is ridicoulus.
They have no idea what a F2P game should look like. I'd be surprised if there's even a rise in general players when the F2P starts.
StudioTan
Hold on, friend! I'd love to share with you some swell news about the Windows 8 Metro UI! Wait, where are you going?
So does the LOLing at everything BW and TOR related. People can post criticisms without the childish tone.
Because the current MMO market doesn't support subscription-based MMOs with the player base size they're looking for.
If they were making enough income on the subscription service, they wouldn't attempt the F2P transition at all.
If their F2P model was constructed correctly, it would be a good decision. It's not.
Again, if subscriptions were bringing the revenue they wanted, they wouldn't be doing this in the first place.
It's win-win for Bioware, but only in the extreme short term - on the order of a couple of weeks. Going free to play gives you a rare opportunity - essentially a second game launch. They're botching their second chance, and the game will suffer for it.
BattleMonkey
Member
Your tired of people pointing out a comment you made in bad taste?
I don't think the model is bad per say, but they need to remove or be less restrictive on their various caps and restrictions. They want to promote subs and give incentives for subscribers to stay subscribed. It makes sense because they still have ton of players paying subs and don't want them to all drop to f2p status suddenly next month. But like I was saying they have some silly ideas in there that seem to contradict like the currency caps which is at odds with unlocks a player can buy. If they could perhaps ease off and tweak these, things would be better.
Last time they said anything, the game was still profitable and the decision to transition to this model had to be made a while ago. Again this is a different case than any other MMO that has transitioned to F2P. All others were barely alive, yet they still had way over 500k subs at last count and they obviously don't want to lose those subs suddenly with a shift to F2P. Every other game that has gone F2P had less than 100k by a large amount and looked dead. They would be tossing out a lot of money if suddenly they made subs worthless.
It's not ideal F2P at all for sure, but it's obvious why they are doing it this way. I wouldn't be surprised in the future if sub to f2p rates really change alot more that they change to a more liberal f2p system. F2P transitions so far have all been focused on getting in new players and catering to them to pay, here they still have a ton of players who they don't want to lose their money. Unlike the other F2P games, the focus is not purely on attracting new customers, they are trying to keep all their current players and new ones which I think is making a mess
Sigh.
Yeah, that was the first time ever a tongue-in-cheek comment was met by "So you want people to lose their jobs in this economy, hm? You're a bad person and I'm a paragon of justice!" here, sure.
Nothing good will ever come out of being negative towards an MMO in a thread dedicated to it. I already knew this, but somehow forgot about it for a second back there. My apologies. I won't do it again. And now I'm out of here.
Wow I resubbed a couple of months ago thinking I would pay until the f2p based off that comparison list Bioware initially posted regarding the differences between f2p and p2p. That list didn't mention like 95% of these new restrictions. Now I don't even see a reason to keep paying until f2p because I definitely won't be playing it. Bye SWTOR it was nice knowing you.
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
Not to split hairs (or make a strawman), but I'd argue it's not quite as bad as say, making a F2P Mario game where you have to subscribe to be able to jump. That would be a core mechanic to me, this is technically just the UI they are limiting.
But certainly, if you argued that limiting the UI in an MMO might actually be worse than limiting the actual abilities you can use, I'd be hard pressed to disagree. I would say it was maybe the most ridiculous thing I saw on the list.
I'm glad they did something at least.