When the Game Boy Color and Super Game Boy colorize original GB games...

RedSwirl

Junior Member
How they know know what colors to use for older games?

I've had the GBC and SGB since they launched, but the only original GB game I played on them most of the time was Pokemon Blue, which only used... well blue most of the time. I only just now decided to throw Metroid II in there (which I've only had for a few years), it knows to color Samus two different shades of orange while painting the rest of the world blue. How does it know to do that since the game came out years before the GBC and couldn't have had those instructions in it? It even get's a whole different set of colors on the SBC despite predating that as well. I could understand the special border Donkey Kong gets since it came out around the same time as the SBC.

More importantly, why doesn't the 3DS do this?! At this point the only reason to keep playing Metroid II on the 3DS is because its save file system is more stable.
 
I want to say the hardware has predefined pallets for some older pre-Super Gameboy games, later games could define their own.
 
IIRC both hardwares have a map of Game Boy ROM headers built-in. If the game's header matches, it fetches and applies a specific palette assigned to that key, if no other palette is specified.

In the case of the Super Game Boy, later Game Boy games also had SGB-specific calls in the code.
 
Most GameBoy games didn't automatically get an appropriate color scheme, but holding the buttons would set the color of the backgrounds to one 4-color palette, and the color of the sprites to another 3-color (plus transparent) palette. For certain games (only first party AFAIK,) the system would recognize the game's ID in the ROM header and load an appropriate palette.

In the case of Super GameBoy, as said, a game had to have Super GB support to get its own preloaded palette IIRC, but did have some presets that matched certain first party games along with a palette editor.

Why doesn't 3DS do this? Same reason it doesn't support Super GB palettes and borders. Laziness on Nintendo's part. I complain about this in every Club Nintendo VC survey, I hope you all do too.
 
Most GameBoy games didn't automatically get an appropriate color scheme, but holding the buttons would set the color of the backgrounds to one 4-color palette, and the color of the sprites to another 3-color (plus transparent) palette. For certain games (only first party AFAIK,) the system would recognize the game's ID in the ROM header and load an appropriate palette.
Right, the GBC presets, for those few games that have one, are built in to the system. The GBC has only twelve palettes available, and games can't make their own I think, they can just use one of the presets... but it does help out games like Metroid II, Alleyway, etc., their presets look better than the usual default blue/green backgrounds with red sprites palette.

In the case of Super GameBoy, as said, a game had to have Super GB support to get its own preloaded palette IIRC, but did have some presets that matched certain first party games along with a palette editor.
The important thing to remember with the SGB is how it and the GBC colorize completely differently... the GBC does backgrounds with some colors and sprites with others (so you get that blue/green backgrounds with red sprites on top of it default look I mentioned), while the SGB just turns the four shades of grey into four colors. However, the SGB of course allows parts of the screen to be a different palette from the rest, so SGB-enhanced games can have a different palette in the status bar than they are using in the main game window, which is cool. The GBC can't do that. The GBC also has only 12 palettes, while the SGB has something like 48 and supports custom palettes too where you choose the colors -- no such luck on the GBC.

Regardless of the completely different colorization mechanism (the SGB's is better thanks to the cool uses of multiple color zones on the screen, but some games do benefit from having the sprites clearly colored differently from the backgrounds as the GBC does), I've always wondered why the GBC didn't at least have more palettes, like the SGB had... oh well.

Why doesn't 3DS do this? Same reason it doesn't support Super GB palettes and borders. Laziness on Nintendo's part. I complain about this in every Club Nintendo VC survey, I hope you all do too.
Yeah, it's exceptional laziness and nothing more. It's definitely very annoying. But given how they never bothered to program in rumble or controller pak support into their Wii VC N64 emulator, I don't know if I expect this either... not really. It's sad. :(
 
Regardless of the completely different colorization mechanism (the SGB's is better thanks to the cool uses of multiple color zones on the screen, but some games do benefit from having the sprites clearly colored differently from the backgrounds as the GBC does), I've always wondered why the GBC didn't at least have more palettes, like the SGB had... oh well.

It actually had 95 other choices (besides duplicates) besides the original 12, but I guess because they didn't put any real OS in the system it was too difficult to manually select (only so many button combos) so they disabled them.

http://tcrf.net/CGB_Bootstrap_ROM
 
Am I right in remembering that there were some weird transitional games that supported both Game Boy and Game Boy Color? Pokemon Yellow, Gold, and Silver? Or am I crazy?
 
I was just playing Baseball on my Super Game Boy last night (World Series got me in the mood, and it's the only baseball game I have), and it knew to set the colors for green grass, brown dirt, white team and red team even though it came out 5 years before the SGB. I was pretty surprised, and now this thread appears the next morning ahah.
 
It actually had 95 other choices (besides duplicates) besides the original 12, but I guess because they didn't put any real OS in the system it was too difficult to manually select (only so many button combos) so they disabled them.

http://tcrf.net/CGB_Bootstrap_ROM

Gah, so the other ones exist but are impossible to access? Same thing then, pretty much. :(

Oh, I was also disappointed when I found that the GBA stuck with exactly the same palettes as the GBC, no changes at all. They should have added more, with those additional buttons they could have!
 
Am I right in remembering that there were some weird transitional games that supported both Game Boy and Game Boy Color? Pokemon Yellow, Gold, and Silver? Or am I crazy?

Yeah. I'm too lazy to dig up the list but I believe there were about 10-20 gameboy games that came out after the GBC was released that had some of the color features but were still playable on the OGB.

Not 100% sure
 
Am I right in remembering that there were some weird transitional games that supported both Game Boy and Game Boy Color? Pokemon Yellow, Gold, and Silver? Or am I crazy?

Yep... The color of the cart described what 'level' the games supported. There were basically 3 types of GB(C) games. Type 1, classic GB 4 shades of 'color' and later ones being SGB compatible. Type 2 which were limited to (I think off the top of my head) 16 colors at a time and were backwards compatible (but may have issues, Mega Man Xtreme played slow on a regular gameboy or super gameboy but played fine on GBC). Then type 3 which could display 56 colors at a time but were GBC only.

There were quite a few of the type 2 when the GBC first launched (fun fact, Japanese Pokemon yellow was not GBC compatible, but still SGB compatible as per Red/Green/Blue)
 
Yeah. I'm too lazy to dig up the list but I believe there were about 10-20 gameboy games that came out after the GBC was released that had some of the color features but were still playable on the OGB.

Not 100% sure
Zelda LA DX was kind of a funny case, as it was playable on an OGB but lacked the eight (bonus) dungeon which used plenty of colours.

Also if you succeeded in putting Oracle of Ages/Seasons in an OGB (or used an emulator) there was a special message telling you to play this on a GBC.
 
Am I right in remembering that there were some weird transitional games that supported both Game Boy and Game Boy Color? Pokemon Yellow, Gold, and Silver? Or am I crazy?
A significant percentage of "GBC" games are actually dual-mode titles which work on both systems, yes. I find it somewhat annoying that listing sites like GameFAQs list those only as GBC games -- all black cart "GBC" games are also original Game Boy games too! Most of the time the two versions are identical except for color (and maybe smoothness, for black-cart games that take advantage of the faster GBC CPU in color mode), but some are actually different, such as R-Type DX, Conker's Pocket Tales, and such.

And yes, Pokemons Red, Blue, Yellow, Gold, and Silver are "black cart" titles, actually. They also have SGB enhancements too. Only Crystal is GBC-only.

Zelda LA DX was kind of a funny case, as it was playable on an OGB but lacked the eight (bonus) dungeon which used plenty of colours.
Eighth? But LA has 8 dungeons as is, plus the final one. The bonus dungeon would be the 9th, unless you count the final one as one in which case it'd be number ten I guess; though given when you play it in the game (ie, not at the end), it's more of a ".5" dungeon or something, probably. And yeah, the color dungeon is the main new GBC-only feature. Other things added to LA DX, like the added hints and the photos to find, are still there in an original GB. The game also has SGB enhancements, too, unlike the original release -- it's got a border and everything (though of course, you cant' access the color dungeon there because the SGB isn't full color like the GBC is, still, it's cool to have.).

Also if you succeeded in putting Oracle of Ages/Seasons in an OGB (or used an emulator) there was a special message telling you to play this on a GBC.
All GBC games that are not backwards compatible have a warning message screen, each one with similar text but custom to the game, so each one will look a little different. Probably the easiest way to see them is to play the games in a SGB, since the SGB has no locking pin. The GB Pocket would probably work too.
 
Also if you succeeded in putting Oracle of Ages/Seasons in an OGB (or used an emulator) there was a special message telling you to play this on a GBC.

Same with Pokemon Crystal and quite a few others, hell Pokemon Crystal even had Pokemon Gold's SGB border displayed next to the text telling you you were out of luck.

Black Falcon: Pokemon Red/Blue are NOT GBC compatible, they are GB/SGB. They came out in 96, a couple years before GBC hit the scene. Yellow also wasn't GBC compatible in Japan (it being released in... I want to say 97 or early 98) but they polished it and made it have a proper GBC palette for the US/Eur release.

(edit) That's the confusion, the GBC has a built in palette for pokemon Red/Blue (it has some for many games) but there is no palette in the games themselves. Many other popular GB games also had built in palettes. Again see tcrf.net/CGB_Bootstrap_ROM

The difference is true GBC games could change palettes on the fly, where as GB games with a built in palette were "locked" to one set of colors (though unlike type 2 GBC games, you can force a palette change)
 
Same with Pokemon Crystal and quite a few others, hell Pokemon Crystal even had Pokemon Gold's SGB border displayed next to the text telling you you were out of luck.

Black Falcon: Pokemon Red/Blue are NOT GBC compatible, they are GB/SGB. They came out in 96, a couple years before GBC hit the scene. Yellow also wasn't GBC compatible in Japan (it being released in... I want to say 97 or early 98) but they polished it and made it have a proper GBC palette for the US/Eur release.

(edit) That's the confusion, the GBC has a built in palette for pokemon Red/Blue (it has some for many games) but there is no palette in the games themselves. Many other popular GB games also had built in palettes. Again see tcrf.net/CGB_Bootstrap_ROM
You are of course correct, I messed that up. Red and Blue are GB/SGB only, while Yellow, Gold, and Silver are GB/SGB/GBC.

The difference is true GBC games could change palettes on the fly, where as GB games with a built in palette were "locked" to one set of colors (though unlike type 2 GBC games, you can force a palette change)
On that note, one of the worst things about the GBC's B&W colorization when compared to the SGB's is that the SGB CAN change palettes on the fly (or between levels, at least, not during them I don't think), so each level can be colored appropriately to that level in games that get the most out of the SGB. You see this in stuff like DK'94, Wario Land 2, Kirby 2, Mega Man V, etc. -- the water levels are blue, forest levels green, etc. On the GBC/GBA, however, each game has one preset or selected palette, and they cannot change during the game. Disappointing!
 
You are of course correct, I messed that up. Red and Blue are GB/SGB only, while Yellow, Gold, and Silver are GB/SGB/GBC.


On that note, one of the worst things about the GBC's B&W colorization when compared to the SGB's is that the SGB CAN change palettes on the fly (or between levels, at least, not during them I don't think), so each level can be colored appropriately to that level in games that get the most out of the SGB. You see this in stuff like DK'94, Wario Land 2, Kirby 2, Mega Man V, etc. -- the water levels are blue, forest levels green, etc. On the GBC/GBA, however, each game has one preset or selected palette, and they cannot change during the game. Disappointing!

Yeah... that really baffled me at the time as well... Was pretty annoying not seeing the towns in pokemon change color or the life bars in battle not changing color when they dropped below half when it worked fine on SGB.

I understand why they changed the implementation on the GBC, but they could have put a bit more effort into it... but I assume at the time Nintendo just assumed that no one cared about SGB compatibility anymore since the last SNES game in the US was sold 2-3 years earlier and most people had moved onto N64/PSX and wouldn't have one still hooked up to their TV (jokes on them!)
 
And that's why Pokémon Blue was superior when played on a GBC.

Because playing in red sucked.

I thought for sure that the first Pokemon games colored the world based on the city you were in. Lavender Town being lavender, Pewter City being grey, etc.
 
On that note, one of the worst things about the GBC's B&W colorization when compared to the SGB's is that the SGB CAN change palettes on the fly (or between levels, at least, not during them I don't think), so each level can be colored appropriately to that level in games that get the most out of the SGB. You see this in stuff like DK'94, Wario Land 2, Kirby 2, Mega Man V, etc. -- the water levels are blue, forest levels green, etc. On the GBC/GBA, however, each game has one preset or selected palette, and they cannot change during the game. Disappointing!

This is why I use my SGB for regular game boy games on my TV, and my GB Player for everything else.
 
Yeah... that really baffled me at the time as well... Was pretty annoying not seeing the towns in pokemon change color or the life bars in battle not changing color when they dropped below half when it worked fine on SGB.
I don't play Pokemon so I mostly notice it in platformers and such, but yeah, it's a big difference, and it's one much to the SGB's favor.

I understand why they changed the implementation on the GBC, but they could have put a bit more effort into it... but I assume at the time Nintendo just assumed that no one cared about SGB compatibility anymore since the last SNES game in the US was sold 2-3 years earlier and most people had moved onto N64/PSX and wouldn't have one still hooked up to their TV (jokes on them!)
While this was true in the West, that doesn't apply to Japan -- remember that Nintendo itself was releasing SNES games until 2000, and that most Japanese-developed GB/C (dual-mode) games have SGB support, while most Western-developed dual-mode titles do not. The SBG did better in Japan than here, but even so, Nintendo put some badly compromised colorization in the GBC in comparison to what the SGB could do. Disappointing, and a missed opportunity to have SGB-like colorization in a portable... that would have been cool.

This is why I use my SGB for regular game boy games on my TV, and my GB Player for everything else.
Yeah, I use the SGB for pretty much all B&W GB titles as well.
 
Why doesn't 3DS do this? Same reason it doesn't support Super GB palettes and borders. Laziness on Nintendo's part. I complain about this in every Club Nintendo VC survey, I hope you all do too.

The second most disappointing thing (after the library) about 3DS VC is the lack of colors on the GB games. When I heard about toggling the display colors, I thought for sure that's what this was for. When I found out it was just to put use the green colors, I was so disappointed. Fuck, Nintendo. Why not go ahead and add back the shitty blur of the original GB screen while you're at it?

I don't complain about this in the surveys, but I will now.
 
All GBC games that are not backwards compatible have a warning message screen, each one with similar text but custom to the game, so each one will look a little different. Probably the easiest way to see them is to play the games in a SGB, since the SGB has no locking pin. The GB Pocket would probably work too.

I became intensely sad when I realized that I couldn't play kirby tilt 'n' tumble on my Gameboy light.
 
And yes, Pokemons Red, Blue, Yellow, Gold, and Silver are "black cart" titles, actually. They also have SGB enhancements too. Only Crystal is GBC-only.

Did not know that about Gold and Silver. When I saw how impressive the graphics were back in 2000 I assumed they were GBC-only.

Holy shit. I just realized that the Wii U makes a Super DS Boy possible, and that they probably planned it that way.

Mind blown.

Wouldn't be great for all games (like ones where visuals connect on the screens) but generally it could be awesome.
 
The real question is WHY THE FUCK isnt the GBC colorize an option on Virtual Ware Titles on 3DS? Seriously I liked playing with the little bit of color instead of black oand white.

If I recall do GB/GBC emulators allow the color function?
If so nintendo needs to step their emulation on their own platform up.
 
The second most disappointing thing (after the library) about 3DS VC is the lack of colors on the GB games. When I heard about toggling the display colors, I thought for sure that's what this was for. When I found out it was just to put use the green colors, I was so disappointed. Fuck, Nintendo. Why not go ahead and add back the shitty blur of the original GB screen while you're at it?

I don't complain about this in the surveys, but I will now.

The 3DS VC does emulate the crappy motion blur, actually. It even emulates the GB LED getting dimmer as the battery loses charge.
 
Holy shit. I just realized that the Wii U makes a Super DS Boy possible, and that they probably planned it that way.

Mind blown.

You know, this was one of the first things that popped into my head when the whole second screen on a controller was first revealed. Of course, instead of adding color to black and white games, the Super 3DS would render the games in 1080p.

I don't see it happening, though =P
 
I always assumed that the GBC/ GBA had custom colour palettes for select Nintendo first party games, like Metroid II for example.

Though as far as palettes go, the original Game Boy was capable of two separate sprite layers and one BG layer. Each layer was capable of displaying 4 shades of grey max. So therefore, the GBC and later systems could produce upwards of 12 colours on screen.

In Metroid 2 Samus shared the same sprite layer as the enemies, so the four colours that make up Samus's sprite are also used for enemy sprites as well. While the BG has its own 4 colours. There are actually a few GB games where the main character sprite was on its own separate layer from the enemy sprites, so the main character could have 4 unique colours while all the enemies shared a 4 colour palette while the BG has its own 4 colour palette, making up a total of 12 colours.

Though with the original Super Gameboy, it only recognized 4 colours total, unless it was designed with Super Game Boy support.
 
I always assumed that the GBC/ GBA had custom colour palettes for select Nintendo first party games, like Metroid II for example.

Though as far as palettes go, the original Game Boy was capable of two separate sprite layers and one BG layer. Each layer was capable of displaying 4 shades of grey max. So therefore, the GBC and later systems could produce upwards of 12 colours on screen.

In Metroid 2 Samus shared the same sprite layer as the enemies, so the four colours that make up Samus's sprite are also used for enemy sprites as well. While the BG has its own 4 colours. There are actually a few GB games where the main character sprite was on its own separate layer from the enemy sprites, so the main character could have 4 unique colours while all the enemies shared a 4 colour palette while the BG has its own 4 colour palette, making up a total of 12 colours.

Though with the original Super Gameboy, it only recognized 4 colours total, unless it was designed with Super Game Boy support.

I think while there are 4 colours/shades per palette, the sprites always have to replace one of those 4 with transparency. So you need a few more sprites with different settings to see all the colours at once.
So even designing for the original GB you'd have to consider whether you wanted a sprite to use everything but white, everything but black, or missing one of the shades between.
 
I think while there are 4 colours/shades per palette, the sprites always have to replace one of those 4 with transparency. So you need a few more sprites with different settings to see all the colours at once.
So even designing for the original GB you'd have to consider whether you wanted a sprite to use everything but white, everything but black, or missing one of the shades between.


Whoops, that's right. I'm not sure why I forgot about the transparent colour per sprite layer. but yet, it could really technically display 3 colours per sprite layer and 4 for the BG layer.
 
I think while there are 4 colours/shades per palette, the sprites always have to replace one of those 4 with transparency. So you need a few more sprites with different settings to see all the colours at once.
So even designing for the original GB you'd have to consider whether you wanted a sprite to use everything but white, everything but black, or missing one of the shades between.
The GB only has four shades of gray to display, of course, too, so it's not like it can display different shades on the sprites and backgrounds... there are only five possible colors, white/green (that is, no color) or four shades of grey. Some later B&W handhelds like the WonderSwan and Neo-Geo Pocket have 8 or 12 shades of grey, but the GB has fewer.

Whoops, that's right. I'm not sure why I forgot about the transparent colour per sprite layer. but yet, it could really technically display 3 colours per sprite layer and 4 for the BG layer.
Yes, from a total of four color choices (or no color). So no, the original GB could not make the sprites and backgrounds different colors unless it used only two shades for each, or something like that. You are right that it puts them in different "palettes", but apart from that this means that you can only use three of the four shades of grey on each sprite layer, this didn't really matter all that much as far as gamers are concerned until the GBC released and they decided to have the palettes color the backgrounds and sprites different colors for whatever reason (to make the DKL games play better, or something?).

That is, the SGB makes each zone of the screen into one set of four shades because that's the exact same way it works on the Game Boy. The GBC's "color the sprite and background palettes different shades" is quite unnatural, compared to the way the games are supposed to look.

I always assumed that the GBC/ GBA had custom colour palettes for select Nintendo first party games, like Metroid II for example.

Though as far as palettes go, the original Game Boy was capable of two separate sprite layers and one BG layer. Each layer was capable of displaying 4 shades of grey max. So therefore, the GBC and later systems could produce upwards of 12 colours on screen.

In Metroid 2 Samus shared the same sprite layer as the enemies, so the four colours that make up Samus's sprite are also used for enemy sprites as well. While the BG has its own 4 colours. There are actually a few GB games where the main character sprite was on its own separate layer from the enemy sprites, so the main character could have 4 unique colours while all the enemies shared a 4 colour palette while the BG has its own 4 colour palette, making up a total of 12 colours.

Though with the original Super Gameboy, it only recognized 4 colours total, unless it was designed with Super Game Boy support.
Once again, given the GB's 2-bit (four color) video display, I'm really not sure what you're talking about here, as far as putting more than four colors on screen is concerned. Sure it could do different palettes for different things, but they're all working from the same "four shades of grey or transparent" hardware! The GB cannot put six shades of grey on screen, because they don't exist.

Really interesting article on the clever use of SGB in DK94 - here
Yeah, that's a very good article. The idea of having two colors for Mario, which stay the same, with just one color changing to make each stage's environment different was a pretty interesting idea -- with most SGB games that color each stage a different color, the characters simply appear in a different color in each level. Not so in DK'94 because of that trick they used.

goddamn, samus never really did get respect, did she...that sucks
That wasn't the only one cancelled, a GBC port of Kirby's Dream Land 2 was also canned.
 
Most of the time the two versions are identical except for color (and maybe smoothness, for black-cart games that take advantage of the faster GBC CPU in color mode), but some are actually different, such as R-Type DX, Conker's Pocket Tales, and such.

Actually, the dual-mode games couldn't make use of the faster CPU or extra memory (or the largest cartridges). That's really the main reason there are GBC-only games, those are the only games that could really push the system. And you could do some insane things with the full GBC, like have hundreds of colors on the screen by reloading the palettes every scanline.
 
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