Support NeoGAF

[Alucrid]

Dorito face and head are killing me.

 

[Zissou]

Dorito Pope is excellent.

 

[nomis]

He the fucking Dorito Pope.

 

[Shaneus]

Instead of moneyhat, it's the Doritoshat

Doritoshat?

Also, the Mountain Dewrito Pope is godly.

 

[FartOfWar]

Come Back Shawn Elliott!

I'm still here. It's interesting listening to that and thinking on how out of my element I felt at first on that show. I played soft, knowing at the time that listeners -- especially those on GAF in that era -- loved Shane's style in large part because it put the enthusiasm in professional enthusiasm. I was aware that everything I said was something in the way of those on this site who only wanted the breathless sales pitch without interruption. In fact, if we were to find the original thread on that episode I suspect we'd see something along those lines.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10508470&postcount=77

 

[Oblivion]

Geoff didn't deserve this.

Spoiler

holy shit that's great

 

[TheGreatDivide]

Lol last thing for the night, just wanted to see how it would look
Pretty shitty but hey.

This is the best thing.

 

[JasonUresti]

I'm still here. It's interesting listening to that and thinking on how out of my element I felt at first on that show. I played soft, knowing at the time that listeners -- especially those on GAF in that era -- loved Shane's style in large part because it put the enthusiasm in professional enthusiasm. I was aware that everything I said was something in the way of those on this site who only wanted the breathless sales pitch without interruption. In fact, if we were to find the original thread on that episode I suspect we'd see something along those lines.

Yes, Shane and his style were greatly celebrated by the bulk of GAF at that time. Most listeners here of the 1Up Show ate it all up.

 

[boutrosinit]

I know this is old but I just wanted to see this part in particular quoted:

http://www.vg247.com/2012/10/31/doritosgate-after-the-storm-lets-clean-ourselves-up/

A very good response, and the kind of tack I want to see more sites take. Well done VG247!

True too. I used to write / report for Pat and he never revealed sources or sold people the fuck out.

 

[Jharp]

This thread and this controversy appears to be moving too fast for my feeble mind to keep up. I got everything up to roughly page 60 of this thread, and besides the stuff outlined up until that point, I also caught the laughable Polygon press release posting, as well as Amazon Tony's unfortunate timing.

Any other developments since then? Any bigwigs weighing in on the matter? I know the newest Bombcast discusses it a bit.

 

[BanGy.nz]

Yes, Shane and his style were greatly celebrated by the bulk of GAF at that time. Most listeners here of the 1Up Show ate it all up.

It was fuel for the console war/NPD nonsense during the early years of this current generation.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I just want to say I'm really glad I work a swing shift in which nobody is here in the office besides myself and the cleaning crew.

The last page made me cry from laughter. Jesus.

 

[JABEE]

I'm still here. It's interesting listening to that and thinking on how out of my element I felt at first on that show. I played soft, knowing at the time that listeners -- especially those on GAF in that era -- loved Shane's style in large part because it put the enthusiasm in professional enthusiasm. I was aware that everything I said was something in the way of those on this site who only wanted the breathless sales pitch without interruption. In fact, if we were to find the original thread on that episode I suspect we'd see something along those lines.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10508470&postcount=77

The responses in that thread are hilarious. There are always people who don't want to see behind the curtain, and just want to enjoy the hype cycle and excitement of a new game.

One of my favorite episodes of GFW was when you talked about GTA IV and pointed out the hyperbole that surrounded the reviews that came out for that game. I always thought it was cool that you guys avoided looking at games through the lens of hype.

 

[Safe Bet]

Yes, Shane and his style were greatly celebrated by the bulk of GAF at that time. Most listeners here of the 1Up Show ate it all up.

give me a break...

there was bias on all sides and we all had a blast arguing about it

shane just catches shit because he was far less subtle about it

 

[Rufus]

One of my favorite episodes of GFW was when you talked about GTA IV and pointed out the hyperbole that surrounded the reviews that came out for that game. I always thought it was cool that you guys avoided looking at games through the lens of hype.

I remember the big roundtable discussion on the 1UP Show. That was and probably still is cringe worthy.

 

[Jake Tower]

I'm still here. It's interesting listening to that and thinking on how out of my element I felt at first on that show. I played soft, knowing at the time that listeners -- especially those on GAF in that era -- loved Shane's style in large part because it put the enthusiasm in professional enthusiasm. I was aware that everything I said was something in the way of those on this site who only wanted the breathless sales pitch without interruption. In fact, if we were to find the original thread on that episode I suspect we'd see something along those lines.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10508470&postcount=77

And that all goes back to another large problem... us, the audience. If we (collective we) weren't so willing to give ourselves over to hype and the tribalism commonly called 'fanboyism,' real games criticism/journalism might be able to more often rise to the surface. "Why so low?"

Well yeah, I wanted to know about humor and hidden gags, about POV implementation, about storytelling, and such. But some kids seemingly can't take an even slightly critical question from who people who are supposedly critics.

 

[Jasper Avenue]

I'm dying. I'm dying. hahaha

 

[Oersted]

We are unworthy

 

[Puppet Shadow]

This thread and this controversy appears to be moving too fast for my feeble mind to keep up. I got everything up to roughly page 60 of this thread, and besides the stuff outlined up until that point, I also caught the laughable Polygon press release posting, as well as Amazon Tony's unfortunate timing.

Any other developments since then? Any bigwigs weighing in on the matter? I know the newest Bombcast discusses it a bit.

You got the main stuff. At this point we're just having a bit of fun.

 

[Rufus]

Can't get much better than Mount Dorito Pope.

 

[Lionel Mandrake]

Jesus Christ, what the fuck happened here?

 

[Fistwell]

An insider. A VIP.

Yeah well it doesn't affect them. They're just... this great membrane, through which all things video-game go through. It is what it is. And they're friends with PRs and industry people, but they're professionals god dammit. Like adults and shit. Some are friends, come over for dinner, their wives hang out and stuff, some have good friends in the industry who got mad at them for reviews they did, which.... affected them emotionally, but well... it... didn't really affect them for realzies cause, you know... we have, like, we've earned it, yeah? We're more intelligent, we're above that shit. I mean, swag is... that just makes me laugh, right? Swag comes in, I'm like "OH FUCK ME MORE CRAP" *rolls eyes* *LOLOLOL*, "SOMEONE WANTS THIS STATUE? Cause ... I ain't got more room on my desk for more statues cause it's full of statues already BUT I NEVER LOOK AT THEM CAUSE I'M A PROFESSIONAL." And, you know, I already think about that crap all the time, so don't you dare ask me to take a critical look at me and my peers' practices, cause it is what it is, take it or leave it.

Also, witch hunt, witch hunt, bitter, witch hunt, bitter.

 

[Brashnir]

This thread has clearly run its course. Have fun kids, I'm out.

 

[Mindlog]

And that all goes back to another large problem... us, the audience. If we (collective we) weren't so willing to give ourselves over to hype and the tribalism commonly called 'fanboyism,' real games criticism/journalism might be able to more often rise to the surface. "Why so low?"

The more interesting 'Game Journalism' articles will rarely net more than a few pages of discussion.

A game review outlier may as well be an alpenhorn.

I don't believe the topic would interest everybody, but this recent one comes to mind.
Johnny Cage, 20 years later Interview from the verge

Now I find out that Matt/Verge got a cut on the book back-end! jokes.

 

[Oxx]

Yes, Shane and his style were greatly celebrated by the bulk of GAF at that time. Most listeners here of the 1Up Show ate it all up.

MANGOD

 

[Freezie KO]

Rumor has it that Keighley will baptize you in Mountain Dew in exchange for a free PS3.

 

[Zissou]

Let no one be found among you who sacrifices their fellow games journalist in the fire of twitter, who practices ethics or real criticism, doubts PR, or engages in witch hunts-
Dewteronomy 18:10

 

[eternalb]

I just want to say this is literally the best thing Gaf has ever done. Thank you. That was amazing.

 

[MrTroubleMaker]

http://www.abload.de/img/geoffking5ikci.png[img]

[img]http://www.abload.de/img/geoffkingsm2xkbw.png

lol only a 4 out of 5

 

[Jamie OD]

Jesus Christ, what the fuck happened here?

We were blessed by a visit from the Dorito Pope.

 

[Dead Man]

I was managing to not look like an idiot at work until this one. Holy shit LOL, now I'm the idiot crying at his computer.

 

[Atrophis]

Oh god that post is killing me.

 

[Safe Bet]

Always sucks to be the guy to discover "how much is too much".

 

[BGBW]

HA HA HA! Love the images. The new bread and wine.

 

[Frankie Williamson]

I'm still here. It's interesting listening to that and thinking on how out of my element I felt at first on that show. I played soft, knowing at the time that listeners -- especially those on GAF in that era -- loved Shane's style in large part because it put the enthusiasm in professional enthusiasm. I was aware that everything I said was something in the way of those on this site who only wanted the breathless sales pitch without interruption. In fact, if we were to find the original thread on that episode I suspect we'd see something along those lines.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10508470&postcount=77

It's unfortunate your run on 1-Up Yours was so short lived. That segment with the guy from FASA about Shadowrun was one of the best developer interview/discussions I'd ever (and still have ever) heard.

 

[Safe Bet]

"The truth is that if one performs as part of sponsored trips, one cannot, no matter what anyone says on the matter, remain completely objective. No matter how well intentioned, you are not independent if you operate this way. If you’re not independent, then it seems logical that the content you create under these circumstances can’t be absolutely trusted."

"I think that, honestly, we have all been professional in an unprofessional situation for far, far too long."

"“You have to trust us,” after Doritosgate, is no longer enough."

Source:

http://http://www.vg247.com/2012/10/31/doritosgate-after-the-storm-lets-clean-ourselves-up/

A very difficult stance to take.

Hopefully there is an audience willing to reward the critics and writers who choose to take it.

 

[Dead Man]

Yeah, that is a great piece, and a pretty tough policy given that everyone else seems to have their hands out.
http://www.vg247.com/2012/10/31/doritosgate-after-the-storm-lets-clean-ourselves-up/

Secondly, I was invited to the Microsoft Spring Showcase in San Francisco in February. California is a long way away from Europe. The costs really were high, and I wanted to go. There are some trips, I told myself, that it’s important to attend in order to foster a decent relationship with UK PR. Conveniently, it fell just before GDC; Microsoft was flexible about the flight, so I was able to travel from Paris then stay on for the show. Microsoft paid for the premium economy ticket and several nights in the Mark Hopkins hotel. We spent the days at the event working, and the evenings at mass dinners, which were always paid for by Microsoft.

We got a lot out of it. I worked hard. We had content live for the Halo 4 reveal, and we got the first look at Forza Horizon. Given what VG247 is, we should absolutely have been there. Whether or not I should have been there personally is a different matter. And if I should have been there, then I should have just flown myself there and paid for a hotel. It would have cost thousands, but this is my business. This is how we make money. I was ignoring the fact that I could have sent Steph, our US editor, instead. This is what I should have done. And we should have paid for it ourselves.

Solid introspection and big balls on the mea culpa.

 

[Falifax]

I almost feel sorry for Geoff.

 

[Shatner's Bassoon]

 

[Fistwell]

Solid introspection and big balls on the mea culpa.

Yeah, guy comes out of this ocean of shit smelling like roses. Good on him. Hope they stick with it.

 

[MarkusRJR]

Could someone summarize what happened in this thread. I don't have enough time to read all 151 pages and find out...

 

[Lancehead]

Could someone summarize what happened in this thread. I don't have enough time to read all 151 pages and find out...

You can read this for summary: http://www.rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=8579

Or if you have time, go through the links in the OP.

 

[Lime]

Could someone summarize what happened in this thread. I don't have enough time to read all 151 pages and find out...

Read Ledsen's latest summary post.

Update: Added Giant Bombcast, Weekend Confirmed 3, Guardian funny thing, 1up Yours, Christian Spicer, VG247, Video Games Interactive, MaxwellGT2000, Kotaku, Dave Long


Current articles/videos/podcasts
Wings over Sealand (Stuart Campbell) articles (second article has early summary) 1 2 3
John Walker's (Rock Paper Shotgun) blog (start with Games Journalists, And The Perception Of Corruption, includes guest post by Rab Florence)
TotalBiscuit
Jim Sterling
Penny-Arcade 1 2
Gamasutra
Forbes
Worthplaying
GiantBomb
Jason Lauritzen editorial and GAF post
RPGCodex writes an excellent summary
Destructoid
BoingBoing
TheSixthAxis
EDGE article that was written a few weeks ago
PlayerOne Podcast
Eurogamer's Tom Bramwell (editor who edited Rab's column) about the last few days
Rock Paper Shotgun official stance
The Guardian and a funny thing related to the article
Giant Bombcast
VG247 on their new ethics statement
Video Games Interactive
Kotaku

Old (but still relevant) articles/videos/podcasts
Rab Florence (the guy who started all this) criticizing games writing since 2008
An old episode of CGW Radio discussing Gerstmann-gate
Old Gamasutra article on the influence of PR
Old GFW radio bits
1up YoursShawn Elliot and Shane Bettenhausen

Comments from the industry
Shawn Elliot - 1 (aegies is Arthur Gies of polygon.com) 2 3 4 5 6 on the psychology of PR etc
and some more Arthur Gies - 1 2 3 4 5 and some replies 1 2 3
Jeff Green on the way it actually works, and another post, an another
ShockingAlberto on his view as a former games writer
Jason Schreier (Kotaku) - 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 and many more
N'Gai Croal initial reaction on Twitter
Chris Schilling (freelance) likes both people involved and so doesn't want to write about it
Danny O'Dwyer (Gamespot UK) on why his site won't cover this (audience is not interested) - 1 2 3
pastapadre on being shunned by the industry
Stephen Totilo (Kotaku) doesn't think this is an important story (has changed his mind about that part, read post 9). Wants to focus on good games journalism, this prompted a pretty funny picture and a comment about it, then Stephen Totilo enters the thread 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 (ignore the comment on 18, couldn't find a direct link to Totilo's comment) 19
Weekend Confirmed 1 2 3
Syriel on his experiences of PR
Jeff Gerstmann short comment on swag
Christian Donlan and Simon Parkin of Eurogamer want to change how they do things
Nert on his experience as PR in the tech industry 1 2
John Walker (RPS) on why the site won't cover it (they did anyway) like his blog did
Rab Florence tweets
Jeff Gerstmann 1 (1 is from Tumblr) 2 (2 via EternalGamer, highlights some other stuff) 3 4 5 (3-5 are comments by Jeff in this thread)
Christian Spicer
MaxwellGT2000 talks about his experiences as a writer for a small site that got bigger
Dave Long 1 2

Comments from others
GillianSeed79 and firehawk12 on how journalist do criticize their peers
voodoopanda highlights that the issue is not in any way black or white
Snowden's Secret comments on gaming press reactions
Zissou weighs in

Other relevant/interesting links and examples of PR
Examples of various press kits
The 3DS comes to GiantBomb
Letter sent to reviewers from UbiSoft along with their press copy of Assassin's Creed 3
How Rockstar handled the reviews for GTA4
Battlefield 3 review questionnarie

 

[Curufinwe]

give me a break...

there was bias on all sides and we all had a blast arguing about it

shane just catches shit because he was far less subtle about it

True. Ellis and Smith were just as committed to their favorite platform as Shane was.

 

[Y2Kev]

HABEMUS DORITEM

 

[Boogybro]

I'm in tears here.

 

[StuKen]

HABEMUS DORITEM

Crunchifex Maximus

 

[Dennis]

HABEMUS DORITEM

Why didn't someone think of that joke before?

In hindsight it seems so obvious.

 

[Hot Coldman]

Probably best to close the thread now and save any new discussion for a new thread, because I can't think of any better way to play this one out than the Dorito Pope.

 

[Interfectum]

Dorito Pope is goddamn amazing, holy shit.