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Games Journalism! Wainwright/Florence/Tomb Raider/Eurogamer/Libel Threats/Doritos

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I'm suspicious of any journalist that thinks Twitter is a viable medium for expressing ideas.

Sadly that means I'm suspicious of all journalists.
 
It's our money that oils the machine. Publishers, developers, journalists, everyone. They need to be remembered of that. He who pays has the right to complain and have his complaints be heard. So please at least pretend that you respect us.
 
Does anyone hate their audience as much as these Polygon guys? Remember when 1UP got sliced up by Hearst to the point of irrelevance and the insidious "they" known as GAF donated thousands of dollars from their respective SSI checks and allowance from mom? You know, cuz they're such paranoid losers. Hey Phil, don't use GAF for news posts, don't come here to have a "dialogue with the readers", and certainly don't come begging for money when Polygon goes under. Just fuck off.
 
I love the clowns who constantly complain about things but keep using them. Same goes for gamers who post the same old "can't spell ignorant without IGN" joke and are then the first to post IGN's newest Top 10 list.

Yeah, complain about GAF, you'll still be getting your news from here. If people don't like it, they're not forced to follow the New Threads on GAF Twitter account or to come here. If people don't like IGN, they're not forced to click on their site.

Anyways; treat people with respect and just like "can't spell ignorant without IGN" is getting really old at this point, so is calling out GAF for always being negative about anything and everything without any reason.
 
Guys, you know what? I wrote for science and politicial magazines. I atleast witnessed actual journalism. Writing such straight-up garbage like David Rayfield did, I would have been fired. Showing them a article like this, they wouldn´t even call ne. They would think I´m joking. In the videogames-world such articles are worth getting published. Not even Fox News would have the nuts to publish shit like this. The standards in this industry are so mindboggling low.
 
daycru said:
Does anyone hate their audience as much as these Polygon guys? Remember when 1UP got sliced up by Hearst to the point of irrelevance and the insidious "they" known as GAF donated thousands of dollars from their respective SSI checks and allowance from mom? You know, cuz they're such paranoid losers. Hey Phil, don't use GAF for news posts, don't come here to have a "dialogue with the readers", and certainly don't come begging for money when Polygon goes under. Just fuck off.
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Phil doesn't have your money. It’s in Bill’s House…and…Fred’s House
 
Oersted said:
Guys, you know what? I wrote for science and politicial magazines. I atleast witnessed actual journalism. Writing such straight-up garbage like David Rayfield did, I would have been fired. Showing them a article like this, they wouldn´t even call ne. They would think I´m joking. In the videogames-world such articles are worth getting published. Not even Fox News would have the nuts to publish shit like this. The standards in this industry are so mindboggling low.
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Magazines tend to have higher standards in gaming also compared to blogs and such (maybe because of space limitations or just company culture). Anyway, a better comparison for gaming media is with other entertainment (music, movies, celebrities) I think, not with politics or science were you deal with a lot more important topics.
 
Gooster said:
"GAF has a simplistic view of games journalism."

"According to a user post on NeoGAF, it seems the Wii U blah blah blah blah..."
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From kotaku.com.au:
This feeling. I can’t tell whether it’s relief or apathy. According to a post in Neogaf from Jeremiah Slaczka, creative director and co-founder of 5th Cell, the Wii U most likely will not have a centralised ‘achievements’ system in place for the console. Nintendo is leaving it to the developers themselves to decide.
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ClosingADoor said:
Magazines tend to have higher standards in gaming also compared to blogs and such (maybe because of space limitations or just company culture). Anyway, a better comparison for gaming media is with other entertainment (music, movies, celebrities) I think, not with politics or science were you deal with a lot more important topics.
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"Even" their blogs had higher standards than this. And yes, politics and science are far more important topics. But is the videogames industry not important enough to have any kind of standards? Than they should stop calling themselves journalists.

Also:

No other form of journalism, from music to sport to political to imbedded war reporting, has the kind of ravenous wolves scratching at the door like this one.
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Someone please make a quote pic out of this^^
 
Oersted said:
"Even" their blogs had higher standards than this. And yes, politics and science are far more important topics. But is the videogames industry not important enough to have any kind of standards? Than they should stop calling themselves journalists.
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Of course they need standards, and I think many serious gaming sites have those. But in the end it is writing about entertainment, which is a lot less serious. Of course that doesn't excuse bad content (or the attitude some have against their own readers!), but I do have lower standards for these kind of media then I have of others.
 
Those 2 pieces by Rayfield are actually pretty damn good, they also strike me as a lot more truthful than a lot of the pandering crap that's been put out in the aftermath of this... er... kerfuffle is more accurate than debacle I think.

Sorry to say I can't get on board the EG hype-train as there was nothing particularly noble about that statement of editorial policy; it was a neccessity given their position at the centre of the controversy. Simply allowing things to stand would have left them wide-open to charges of hypocrisy and worse, cynically pandering to a segment of their readership at the expense of the rest of the competitors in the enthusiast press.

I say competitors because it would be unwise to forget that they are in this business to make money, this is not a grand philanthropic enterprise its a business where revenue is generated based on page impressions and site traffic.

Any "exclusive" is a potential earner so you really can't avoid the ugly realization that the possibility of corruption will continue to persist.
 
All I honestly took away from the Kotaku AU piece: "Games journalism is just fine because music journalism is just as crazy."

I feel like music production is a way different beast than game production.
 
spirity said:
It's not the first time David Rayfield has shared views on this topic.

Why The Video Games Industry Shouldn't Live In Fear of Penny Arcade and why PA should "Fuck Off".
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This dude's a bit of a circle-the-wagons douchebag. Some choice excerpts:
To go from making jokes about load times to actively claiming the journalism covering their hobby is not good enough takes some passion and long-term vision.
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It's no coincidence that a comedian like Jon Stewart is one of the only people holding political journalism accountable. And he's certainly not above "dick jokes" either. I bet if you asked, he'd also tell you "journalism is broken."

When their long-standing anger comes bubbling up to the surface, it is a powerful weapon. A weapon that is starting to damage parts of this industry.
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Which tells me that journalists like him aren't doing their jobs. If people are afraid of comedians/comic writers, then those people must be doing something seriously wrong. Hey, Mr. Journalist Man, isn't it your job to make the industry afraid of you?
 
ClosingADoor said:
Of course they need standards, and I think many serious gaming sites have those. But in the end it is writing about entertainment, which is a lot less serious. Of course that doesn't excuse bad content (or the attitude some have against their own readers!), but I do have lower standards for these kind of media then I have of others.
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Of course the standards are lower within certain areas. But articles with wording like "insane", "nutcases" are not places anyone should go to. I guess we can agree on this.
 
conman said:
Which tells me that journalists like him aren't doing their jobs. If people are afraid of comedians/comic writers, then those people must be doing something seriously wrong. Hey, Mr. Journalist Man, isn't it your job to make the industry afraid of you?
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You sir, just nailed it.
 
ClosingADoor said:
Of course they need standards, and I think many serious gaming sites have those. But in the end it is writing about entertainment, which is a lot less serious.
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Tell that to the centuries worth of political, critical, historical, and social writers about the arts. Drama and poetry were once "popular" media, scoffed at by "serious" intellectuals until people like Aristotle changed the conversation. Do people live or die based on games? No. But games can affect the ways we respond to life and death.

That's not to say that games writing shouldn't have its junk-food equivalents to Entertainment Tonight. But the answer shouldn't be to make blanket excuses for irresponsible journalists by saying "it's just entertainment." Wars have been fought, resolved, understood, and felt vicariously through their depiction in "popular media." Games have a particular fascination with war and violence. Clearly there's more going on than just "entertainment."

Games might be fun, but that doesn't mean they're not serious. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect game journalists to understand that.
 
I think the sheer notion that a Journalist is "part of the industry" should raise some serious red flags.
You're either a journalist or a marketing employee. Both are respectable jobs, but pretending to be a journalist when you're merely being instrumentalized to function as an outsourced PR marketer is dishonest at best, and cynical at worst.

Now I think that many aren't even aware that they're basically doing PR work, and I feel sorry for them as their intentions might be good, but due to corporate culture/ peer pressure, own bias they betray their journalistic aspirations.
 
Oersted said:
Of course the standards are lower within certain areas. But articles with wording like "insane", "nutcases" are not places anyone should go to. I guess we can agree on this.
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The sad truth is that a lot of the "criticism" of game journalists tends to look like this.

tpyf5.jpg
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That's not our fault, and it doesn't justify journos blocking out legitimate critiques (heck, that kind of rabid fanboyism isn't remotely unique to games), but this sort of attack is the first thing they're thinking of when they see people complaining about the state of game journalism.

I don't think the state of the games press is all that different from other journalism. The differences are mainly that it's serving a smaller audience than something like music or politics (it's a niche serving a niche), and there's not a lot to report on given how intensely secretive studios are. There's plenty of chaff and press-release repeating everywhere, but it's tough for games press to write interesting stories when publishers have such a monopoly on necessary information.

I think things are getting better. I feel like interesting, in-depth post-mortem features on games are happening more often than they once did, though I think the basic standard of games criticism has a ton of room to improve. Things like this thread are helping that improvement along. I don't think the Kotaku AU story is sending the wrong message, but the tone is a lot more caustic than it has to be. There's no reason to get that hyperbolic about the woes game journalists face.
 
sonicmj1 said:
The sad truth is that a lot of the "criticism" of game journalists tends to look like this.



That's not our fault, and it doesn't justify journos blocking out legitimate critiques (heck, that kind of rabid fanboyism isn't remotely unique to games), but this sort of attack is the first thing they're thinking of when they see people complaining about the state of game journalism.

I don't think the state of the games press is all that different from other journalism. The differences are mainly that it's serving a smaller audience than something like music or politics (it's a niche serving a niche), and there's not a lot to report on given how intensely secretive studios are. There's plenty of chaff and press-release repeating everywhere, but it's tough for games press to write interesting stories when publishers have such a monopoly on necessary information.

I think things are getting better. I feel like interesting, in-depth post-mortem features on games are happening more often than they once did, though I think the basic standard of games criticism has a ton of room to improve. Things like this thread are helping that improvement along. I don't think the Kotaku AU story is sending the wrong message, but the tone is a lot more caustic than it has to be. There's no reason to get that hyperbolic about the woes game journalists face.
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For some (like this Polygon guy), it seems to be the only thing they think of. Ignore the relevant criticism and group everyone with the crazies. Seems professional and fair, doesn't it Phil Kollar?
 
sonicmj1 said:
The sad truth is that a lot of the "criticism" of game journalists tends to look like this.



That's not our fault, and it doesn't justify journos blocking out legitimate critiques (heck, that kind of rabid fanboyism isn't remotely unique to games), but this sort of attack is the first thing they're thinking of when they see people complaining about the state of game journalism.
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A actual journalist should be able to distinguish between Internet trolling, which happens to every kind of journalism, and criticism.

sonicmj1 said:
I don't think the state of the games press is all that different from other journalism. The differences are mainly that it's serving a smaller audience than something like music or politics (it's a niche serving a niche), and there's not a lot to report on given how intensely secretive studios are. There's plenty of chaff and press-release repeating everywhere, but it's tough for games press to write interesting stories when publishers have such a monopoly on necessary information.
Click to expand...

conman said:
Tell that to the centuries worth of political, critical, historical, and social writers about the arts. Drama and poetry were once "popular" media, scoffed at by "serious" intellectuals until people like Aristotle changed the conversation. Do people live or die based on games? No. But games can affect the ways we respond to life and death.

That's not to say that games writing shouldn't have its junk-food equivalents to Entertainment Tonight. But the answer shouldn't be to make blanket excuses for irresponsible journalists by saying "it's just entertainment." Wars have been fought, resolved, understood, and felt vicariously through their depiction in "popular media." Games have a particular fascination with war and violence. Clearly there's more going on than just "entertainment."

Games might be fun, but that doesn't mean they're not serious. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect game journalists to understand that.
Click to expand...
 
I love that Kotaku Australia piece where he somehow thinks the gaming press is held to a higher standard than political journalism. Or, implicitly, stuff like business journalism, which has some of the most stringent codes of conduct around. Holy shit.
 
conman said:
Tell that to the centuries worth of political, critical, historical, and social writers about the arts. Drama and poetry were once "popular" media, scoffed at by "serious" intellectuals until people like Aristotle changed the conversation. Do people live or die based on games? No. But games can affect the ways we respond to life and death.

That's not to say that games writing shouldn't have its junk-food equivalents to Entertainment Tonight. But the answer shouldn't be to make blanket excuses for irresponsible journalists by saying "it's just entertainment." Wars have been fought, resolved, understood, and felt vicariously through their depiction in "popular media." Games have a particular fascination with war and violence. Clearly there's more going on than just "entertainment."

Games might be fun, but that doesn't mean they're not serious. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect game journalists to understand that.
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Of course, and that's why there are serious gaming sites and less serious ones. Kotaku is one of the latter, sites like Rock Paper Shotgun would go in the first category. It's just strange to me to shout "gaming journalism is broken" while there are plenty of good sites. No one is forcing you to visit IGN if you don't like it, just like you don't need to go to TMZ or any other celebrity, gossip website. But plenty of people are looking for that kind of easy, lower quality content and are happy with it.
 
ClosingADoor said:
Of course, and that's why there are serious gaming sites and less serious ones. Kotaku is one of the latter, sites like Rock Paper Shotgun would go in the first category. It's just strange to me to shout "gaming journalism is broken" while there are plenty of good sites. No one is forcing you to visit IGN if you don't like it, just like you don't need to go to TMZ or any other celebrity, gossip website. But plenty of people are looking for that kind of easy, lower quality content and are happy with it.
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I guess even one of RPS guys wrote he won´t write about Keighley gate because he would have to investigate for this. Even TMZ has higher standards. And TMZ is not about arts.
 
Haven't been in this thread for a bit, and I see the same people are still angry at games media.

Well done, thought you'd have moved on to the next outrage by now.

Rayfield's article on PA Report wasn't that bad, as I had thought the same things. Then again, I don't have that hard of a time understanding the difference, I just always found it kind of humorous.
 
NervousXtian said:
Haven't been in this thread for a bit, and I see the same people are still angry at games media.

Well done, thought you'd have moved on to the next outrage by now.

Rayfield's article on PA Report wasn't that bad, as I had thought the same things. Then again, I don't have that hard of a time understanding the difference, I just always found it kind of humorous.
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People who can´t tell the difference between criticism and outrage. People who end up on block lists.
 
Oersted said:
I guess even one of RPS guys wrote he won´t write about Keighley gate because he would have to investigate for this. Even TMZ has higher standards. And TMZ is not about arts.
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I think you are confusing them with Kotaku, considering they talked about the subject on several occations.

NervousXtian said:
Haven't been in this thread for a bit, and I see the same people are still angry at games media.

Well done, thought you'd have moved on to the next outrage by now.

Rayfield's article on PA Report wasn't that bad, as I had thought the same things. Then again, I don't have that hard of a time understanding the difference, I just always found it kind of humorous.
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You still dont understand the points, at least try to pretend you are not spamming.
 
I bet all those war reporters getting shot at are really glad they are not in the stressful field of games journalism where at any moment they could be attacked by a mean worded tweeter message.


THANK YOU for talking us straight Kotaku Australia.
 
Oersted said:
A actual journalist should be able to distinguish between Internet trolling, which happens to every kind of journalism, and criticism.
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"Criticism"--much like "intelligent debate"--is one of the casualties of the internet age. These days everything looks like trolling, punditry, or gross hyperbole. Just look at the US political and corporate media landscape.

If anything, I'd hope that something as "trivial" as gaming wouldn't be victim to the same ridiculousness. Alas. I am grateful that at least some writers can keep their cool, though.

ClosingADoor said:
Of course, and that's why there are serious gaming sites and less serious ones. Kotaku is one of the latter, sites like Rock Paper Shotgun would go in the first category. It's just strange to me to shout "gaming journalism is broken" while there are plenty of good sites. No one is forcing you to visit IGN if you don't like it, just like you don't need to go to TMZ or any other celebrity, gossip website. But plenty of people are looking for that kind of easy, lower quality content and are happy with it.
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Fair enough. But if writers like Ben Kuchera weren't making such a bold mission statement, there would be a lot fewer outlets like the PA Report in the world. Yes, there are quality sites with quality writers, but they exist only because writers like Kuchera are showing some real brass by saying something like "games journalism is broken." It needs to be said until it's no longer true.
 
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