Hello There, Racists!
- Thread starter Professor Beef
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Half and half
Member
Amazing that so many Republicans tolerate this by looking the other way.
I'll not retract my statement and fight you to the bitter end in court!
Infodumping on someone isn't illegal as long as the information is publicly available. (However, infodumping on someone and then threatening them with violence is quite illegal, as a side note.) You're again drawing a false equivalency between those who exercised their right to free speech against the threats of a small minority of extreme Muslims and a bunch of racists.
Please make better analogies.
Roland Deschain
Member
Dude... why do you think they want him dead? Hint: Not because of his policies.
kurtrussell
Banned
What? No. In the eyes of the racists, their expressions are as legitimate a form of free speech as that of the mohamed artists. In the eyes of the law, there are no qualifiers to free speech - it's all or nothing. In your eyes, obviously not. Doesn't make the comparison any less valid - both are making statements that they know to be incendiary to segments of the population. Both are entitled to.
No, you've incorrectly thrown an event meant to protest the suppression of free speech into the same boat as a large group of people spewing venom at a black man. They are similar in that they are both people expressing themselves, but all similarities end afterwards. Even if your awful analogy weren't awful, it's still unviable because the speech of those who were drawing Mohammad was being threatened with physical violence, which is quite illegal in America.
I don't think anyone wants to threatened these disgusting racists with physical violence, just expose them to their co-workers and friends and family as vile.
Yes, it is completely spineless to not confront every racist and idiot out there. I will hold every single person accountable for every single thing they say on every single viewpoint imaginable. Then, I will get angry and tell them they are wrong! This might take a while. I hope you join me. We can do this.
About a notch below nigger and two steps above spook.
kurtrussell
Banned
I just can't see how your incapable of looking at it from other viewpoints.
For example, the Muslim thing - there were many (not a few, but a lot) of muslims who were as equally offended and repulsed by the Mohammed drawings as you are to the racism. However, because it appears that on your personal radar you don't find this offensive, you can't quite grasp how anyone else could find it grossly offensive.
What I am trying to say is that I can see how both of these examples would be hideously offensive to the right people. I do, however, consider that an unfortunate side-effect of free speech and that trying to "out" someone with the side effect of ruining their lives, either physically or holistically is an inappropriate response.
Are you seriously trying to say that these racists who had their private information exposed are not in any danger of retaliatory physical attacks at all? Not one member of the offended party would consider any violence against them?
Or apparently, until we get all their personal details online so that we can "just expose them to their co-workers and friends and family as vile."
Says the person with a posting history of consistently refusing to do just that.
Fixed that for you.
kurtrussell
Banned
What has my posting history got to do with this debate? What are you trying to say there?
That your bullshit "I just can't see how your incapable of looking at it from other viewpoints." post is the pot calling the kettle black, given that that's all you ever do in any race related topic I've seen you in.
If anyone were to make threats of violence against one of these people based on information they've gained via publicly accessible websites then appropriate actions should be taken. We don't need a crusader going down to Mississippi and beating up a bunch of racists. Fortunately I think most of these assholes are safe from anyone on the internet. If one of their co-workers or school mates were to see this stuff and make the connection though and then proceed to act outside the law in whatever way, that completely out of the culpability of those posting the personal information.
Free speech is not without consequence if you choose to exercise it without first thinking. Both for those drawing Mohammed and for vile racists, there is a risk taken. The big difference is that a vast majority of those drawing Mohammed are doing so as a direct expression of the right to free speech, and those calling Obama a porch monkey are just ignorant rednecks.
kurtrussell
Banned
What other race related topics have you seen me in? Name them, because I can't recall posting in one before.
Also, assuming you do find this
made up
But that's the thing - you cannot classify free speech in terms of a personal viewpoint. It's either free speech or it's not - the sentiment that drives the free speech shouldn't really be called into question.
radioheadrule83
Banned
This little ball of hatred wears a crucifix -- nice.
And this hideous racist chud has a firearm? He looks a bit young. Or is he just talking shit?
Just relax dude. You only have one life to live. Don't spend it trying to fight the unintelligent and misinformed. Their mentality will die off in time only to be replaced by another group of people who hate another group of people for another stupid reason.
Oh who am I kidding, I'm having a blast doing shit like this. It's like a professional football player. Their life will be significantly affected by the punishment they're taking, but the money and fame and fun they're having outweighs that.
What I'm saying is that I'm like of like a professional football player, but without the money, fame, or physical prowess.
What kurtrussell doesn't seem to understand is that exposing people for being racists is not as bad as being racist. It's not even bad.
It most definitely isn't suppression of free speech. They chose to make their comments on a public site, where the listed their places of residence or the school they went to. They wanted to have their comments reach a public audience and these people weren't censoring themselves. Well and good. None of that is illegal and free speech is protected in the US, almost without exception.
However, freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. Obviously, violence towards people expressing a certain opinion is illegal and this site is not condoning it. However, social ostracization, public exposure as a racist and reposting of already publicly shared information about these is completely legal and may be a consequence of the racism that these people have shown.
I also fail to see you point about giving these people a wider audience. Maybe you don't understand something fundamental about these people so I'll express it simply: these people are not carrying the message of racism to the masses in a charismatic way. Their expression of racism towards an elected leader is in no way going to cause some sort of social upheaval or intellectual discourse on the merits of their statements. No one is going to look at what these people say and think "You know, they may have a point" unless they were already racist themselves. What people are going to think is "Man ______ is a dumbass. I probably don't want to be associated with them" Exposing them has no negative consequences to anyone who isn't them and even those negative consequences are not physical. Until someone actually takes physical action against these people in anything approaching statistically significant numbers (yeah, right) you're positing a scenario where the exposure of these people as racists has serious consequences to their physical well being without any evidence.
Personally, you speak like someone who is either apologizing for the racists (your whole tone for this conversation has been "Oh, won't someone think of what could happen to these poor souls! All they did was express racist sentiments-surely no-one should call them on it"), or someone who thinks that shaming people who publicly express racism is just as bad as being racist (which is something you claimed), someone who is completely oblivious to what being silent in the face of racism (hint: at best, nothing and at worst it's taken as assent), someone who has never faced discrimination based on skin color or cannot empathize, a troll or a moron.
It most definitely isn't suppression of free speech. They chose to make their comments on a public site, where the listed their places of residence or the school they went to. They wanted to have their comments reach a public audience and these people weren't censoring themselves. Well and good. None of that is illegal and free speech is protected in the US, almost without exception.
However, freedom of speech does not mean freedom from consequences. Obviously, violence towards people expressing a certain opinion is illegal and this site is not condoning it. However, social ostracization, public exposure as a racist and reposting of already publicly shared information about these is completely legal and may be a consequence of the racism that these people have shown.
I also fail to see you point about giving these people a wider audience. Maybe you don't understand something fundamental about these people so I'll express it simply: these people are not carrying the message of racism to the masses in a charismatic way. Their expression of racism towards an elected leader is in no way going to cause some sort of social upheaval or intellectual discourse on the merits of their statements. No one is going to look at what these people say and think "You know, they may have a point" unless they were already racist themselves. What people are going to think is "Man ______ is a dumbass. I probably don't want to be associated with them" Exposing them has no negative consequences to anyone who isn't them and even those negative consequences are not physical. Until someone actually takes physical action against these people in anything approaching statistically significant numbers (yeah, right) you're positing a scenario where the exposure of these people as racists has serious consequences to their physical well being without any evidence.
Personally, you speak like someone who is either apologizing for the racists (your whole tone for this conversation has been "Oh, won't someone think of what could happen to these poor souls! All they did was express racist sentiments-surely no-one should call them on it"), or someone who thinks that shaming people who publicly express racism is just as bad as being racist (which is something you claimed), someone who is completely oblivious to what being silent in the face of racism (hint: at best, nothing and at worst it's taken as assent), someone who has never faced discrimination based on skin color or cannot empathize, a troll or a moron.
Angelus Errare
Banned
Does that unicorn/Pegasus poster thingy glow in the dark? Every time I see neon colors like that I assume it either glows in the dark or glows under black light.
So, you are doing it for the lulz. A professional lulzer, if you will. If you don't take this stuff seriously, then I can kind of see the rationale behind this "movement".
The racist kids are more than likely racist because they grew up in that environment and have never had a chance to live anywhere else. Why ruin their potential futures when almost everyone on this planet tends to follow in their parents footsteps when it comes to certain ideologies up until a certain age? I get picking on the adults for being stupid and getting a laugh out of it, but this just seems like a stupid cause to fight against in the manner in which it's being fought.
But anyways, fight the fight if you deem it worthy of your time.
Hari Seldon
Member
The only problem I have with this is that most of the people on this tumbler are really young. If they restricted it to 18+ I wouldn't feel a bit slimy about this.
Well, not for the 'lulz' necessarily. I feel passionate about certain subjects, and it just so happens that using someones publicly posted information against them to expose their awful behavior is one of those things. It's better to confront these kids now and give them a mirror with which to view themselves then ignore and condone their behavior until they're fully integrated with society or have kids and can continue to spread their racist ideals.
Omegasquash
Member
If you're adult enough to say stupid things on the internet, then you're adult enough to accept the consequences of being labeled as racist. If it's a mistake, well OK, but you ought to try to fix that mistake. Stupid kids are stupid kids, and that includes when the take racist action.
In some cases, you can separate the person from the act, and flag whether or not it was some idiot that decided to get all up in arms and call our president a racist slur in a rage/drunken haze. Many cases on that tumblr are the real deal, and you can often tell through what they say/images about them. Fuck them until they accept that all men are created equal. I applaud those that want to engage with them and try to show them the truth...you're a saint if that's the case.
Your timing on this post was wonderful, Marrec. Because it happened to me. I grew up in a racist household (not on the level of clansmen, mind you), and did not change until I nearly graduated high school. When I got to a proper university and drank with people of all shapes, genders, ethnicity and skin color, it opened my eyes. I had people call me out when I was in high school, and in hindsight, I'm happy that they did it.
perineumlick
Member
People are responsible for their own actions. Who the fuck is ruining anyone's life here? Once you put something on the Internet, it is there for good; that's their cross to bear. Like I should feel sorry for someone posting hate, or worry about their future. Upbringing or exposure is no excuse.
One of the best things about the internet is how it's changed our communication habits. Before the internet, if you wrote a letter filled with disgusting racist bullshit and sent it to a good friend who quietly put up with your bullshit then no one would ever know that you were a terrible human being and your friend was a spineless coward.
Now, the majority of our casual communication is done in the public. The consequences of this shift have yet to be revealed fully, but a removal of privacy certainly is one of them.
Ever been on XBox live? I havent been on in a few years now but I was amazed at how often everyone used racist and homophobic terms. I try to tell myself they dont mean it as actual racism, just a generic slur but man it's unreal and it's all kids. I played Halo with 5 friends, two of whom happen to be black. Ironically they take it in stride and I cant put up with it.
kurtrussell
Banned
Okay, at this point I'm reminded of the whole arguing on the internet meme. And by trying to debate any further points, we're all going to look like idiots.
Your last post has misappropriated a lot of things I originally said, and stealth-accused me of racism / racism sympathy. I don't know what the poster's personal agenda is, but seems to me that the accusations are particularly asinine and indicates someone who doesn't want to even try to understand the point I was attempting to make and just beat a particular drum - maybe as a result of some unpleasant personal experiences.
I tried to offer up a slightly different perspective, and in return I got personal attacks, OT point scoring and hyperbole. Absolutely nothing to be gained here from going round in circles any more and it's just sad that people can't get the whole "two wrongs don't make a right" sentiment. Yeah, thisisgafdude.jpg but it still sucks that you can't question things without having to then go back and defend yourself against personal attacks.
Anyhow, congrats - you win. Now go back to reassuring each other how right you all are patting each other on the back in a big circle jerk. I'll try not to disrupt with my ghastly alternative opinions again.
perineumlick
Member
And that underscores the level of ignorance we are dealing with these days. These people either can't comprehend, or just don't give a shit, that these words will one day come back to haunt them. The Internet is not a toy, social media can truly affect your life in a negative way if you don't act responsibly.
This isn't giving them a mirror though. It's brandishing them with a scarlet "R" that cannot be removed.
People are responsible for their own actions, yeah that's true, but some of these people are still young enough that they don't really know the consequences of such actions. Blasting their name, address, and hoping future employers see their words and not hire them is pretty bizarre behavior. All it does is continue a cycle of hatred.
I don't think the level of ignorance is higher "these days" than any other time period.
Barbacoatl
Banned
I threatened the ni**er president and all I got was this lousy future.
Also, I will keep saying this: those people are of a certain age when if you don't distinguish between wrong and right, and the consequences of your actions, you are fucked for life anyway, without needing anybody to ruin it for you.
Also, I will keep saying this: those people are of a certain age when if you don't distinguish between wrong and right, and the consequences of your actions, you are fucked for life anyway, without needing anybody to ruin it for you.
To a certain extent, I do not think that scarlet R should be removed. I would not want anyone who's said any of these things to be my future president or even babysit my children... but America and the internet as a whole are surprisingly forgiving while at the same time completely fickle. Next month, unless one of these idiots decides to make a big deal out of this, the internet will completely forget about every single one of them. The information will still be out there, of course, but the internet as a whole will move on. Hopefully before that happens this will act to expose their actions and connect it with their life. The intention here is to make sure the fleeting casual racism their practicing has the consequences it deserves, instead of being forgotten in January.
Half and half
Member
They're called moderate republicans.
I call bullshit. These kids aren't 2 year olds, they are old enough to be aware of the world and how they effect. They know the difference between right and wrong at this point I'm quite sure and if they don't then it's up to society and their parents to teach them.
Furthermore are you saying that teenagers once they reach what's is considered adulthood in their society are automatically able to see the error in their ways without having no one reprimand them similar too reaching the legal drinking age? This is astoundingly silly. If you do bad things and no one teaches you their bad you continue to do it.
Clay Davis
Member
ZombieSupaStar
Member
i swear this looks like the head of a 5 year old on a late teens body lol.
teruterubozu
Member
I keep clicking this thread for entertainment, but instead I just get sick.
This is where we disagree, but I respect your opinion. I think just moving on is exactly what the internet should do. If you give these people, especially the kids, attention, obviously something they are craving, then you are just feeding the beast. Ignore it, they'll get bored when no one finds what they type to be shocking.
But if your point is to make it so whatever you say should be held against you your entire life, then I guess we'll have to agree to disagree. Growing up and learning about the world, I asked some stupid questions and said some stupid shit. I would have hated to have someone save everything I ever said as I a teenager and use it against me 30 years from now when I'm in a completely different point in my life.
You are telling me that when these teenagers are posting these messages, that they are aware of the impact that this stuff might have 10 years down the line? Come on now
True story, the most racist thing I ever said was when I was about 7 years old. I was looking at a globe with my sister and I pointed to Niger and said 'that looks like Nigger'.
I still feel awful to this day about it.
Everyone, obviously, has different experiences growing up. Some people are never called to task for the stupid shit they say and they grow up and continue to say stupid shit. I have a co-worker who says some awful stuff about black people and every time he does I call him out but his actions remain awful... I wonder, if someone had exposed him in his West Virginian youth, if he would still be the person he is today.
People NEED to find these things shocking. That is NOT alright.
Yea they are. As far as i can tell, these kids are not mentally handicapped in any way. They are very well aware of what they are saying, and yes, their lives SHOULD be destroyed for it. Hateis not something that should be nurtured or forgiven. Hate is not something you just decide to drop one day. Do you really think these kids are suddenly going to wake up one day and think "you know what, blacks are A-OK!"
CadetMahoney
Member
pretty much.
I'm telling you that these teenagers know the messages they are posting are racist and they understand what being labeled a racist means in today's society. If they do not they need to be reminded.
Dark Octave
Banned
Outed needs to be outed, no matter the age. What they are saying is wrong, no matter the age. They're the ones who put their info out there and said this stuff. Trust me, when they turn 18, they will still be just as much pieces of shit if not worse. You're not the one who's slimy.
This is pretty much what all this boils down to and it hits home as well.
All of this is pretty common on twitter apparently. Here's some anti semetic stuff wishing Hitler would have killed all the jews.
http://twitchy.com/2012/11/15/hitler-should-have-killed-you-all-anti-semites-explode-over-gaza/
And a bunch of assassinate Romney stuff:
http://twitchy.com/2012/10/17/post-...-supporters-renew-vows-to-murder-mitt-romney/
http://twitchy.com/2012/11/15/hitler-should-have-killed-you-all-anti-semites-explode-over-gaza/
And a bunch of assassinate Romney stuff:
http://twitchy.com/2012/10/17/post-...-supporters-renew-vows-to-murder-mitt-romney/
Yeah I saw this one. Another 'christian' as well. Wonder what they actually teach at her church? And her grandaddy and dad sound like real nice guys.
So do I think what is being done to them now is going to make them think that? If anything, it will make them hate more.
Half and half
Member
We should not ignore the extreme harm that can be caused by these kids when they utter their racist shit. How much depression and anxiety does their innocently childish racism cause in others? How many people are scarred for life because openly tolerated racism like we see in this country?
Ignoring it is the wrong thing to do.
Ignoring it is the wrong thing to do.
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