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[commedieu]

All I want is for this to be done in a responsible manner, with some consideration applied to the trawl. This tumblr approach by anonymous people is irresponsible at the least, and dangerous at the most.

This is the biggest bullshit argument of the entire thread though. Humanity isn't responsible, let alone the internet. Racist and hateful people don't need special treatment, but thats precisely what you're pretending needs to happen. Why are we all pulling the brakes now and pretending as if public shaming is something new? There was no information stolen, or taken illegally. You are calling the president a nigger, and wearing your school outfit. You post your facebook details, and your facebook is open to the world.

These people are publicly putting out their own information, and then calling people niggers and advocating violence. Several news sites covered the stories as well, people in the COMMENT section started putting 2 and 2 together. "Hey that one girl goes to Blah School, someone should let the school know!" Etc.

There is no hiding behind a 'responsible manner' when the racists are being irresponsible with their information and comments in the first place.

People are irresponsible. Some may go after these kids, and kill them. However that is what these technologies allow people to do. Thats the absolute worst case scenario, but its part of any of us participating in online communication with so much access and information to everything.

Yeah, it's empowering seeing these people suffer, isnt it. Makes us all feel pretty good, yeah? Having a group of people who are beneath us, whose mere existence proves that we are better than somebody.



And thank god for that, I'm not sure I could live in a world where profligate women went around having premarital sex in their vaginas.

This thread is about People with their public information online, calling the president a nigger and threatening violence on him. That is what my comment is about. Your conclusion is misplaced.

 

[Half and half]

This could all have been avoided if they didn't call the president racial slurs and for him to be killed.

Word.

 

[Devolution]

Now the question is were those people really racist to begin with ? Did they really change or are they just pretending because of severe backlash ? Does this justify everything negative that might come from this ? Deeds are better than words.

Did they really learn that racism is wrong or did they learn to not show it publicly ?

Does it really matter? One leads to the other. If they're going to remain racist there isn't much you can do. I still consider it a small victory that others won't have to come across their racist screeds.

 

[Barbacoatl]

Yeah, it's empowering seeing these people suffer, isnt it. Makes us all feel pretty good, yeah? Having a group of people who are beneath us, whose mere existence proves that we are better than somebody.

#H8RZMAKEMEFAMOUS

#SORRYNOTSORRY

 

[Htown]

you think the problem is that they haven't met black people before?

White racists in the south lived around black people for decades, and it didn't stop them from screaming and throwing things when their children tried to go to the same schools, or turning dogs and fire hoses on them, or burning crosses on lawns or bombing churches.

I know melanin is a mysterious substance, but I'm pretty sure that it doesn't spontaneously emit radiation that alters brain chemistry to make people tolerant.

 

[Deified Data]

If enough people drown them out and they take back what they said, which more than a few have done, I consider that a pretty solid victory. Some of the kids are already trying to distance themselves from what they posted.

We have different opinions of what constitutes a "victory", I suppose.

 

[Devolution]

We have different opinions of what constitutes a "victory", I suppose.

That would be a victory, but I fear instead their racism and hatred will dwell inside them. I'm not sure that victory will be worth the - potential, I don't think anything too bad has happened yet - price, but we'll see.

One less nigger filled rant on the internet is a victory for people who don't want to see that shit. I thought it was obvious you can't always change their minds but you can at least get them to stop being hateful shits in public.

 

[The Mana Legend]

How do we know some of these people are actually racist? How do we know they aren't just joking around or acting stupid just for fun/to troll people? I know so many people who just make racist jokes, and people flip out and call them racist because they can't handle an innocent joke.

 

[captmcblack]

This could all have been avoided if they didn't call the president racial slurs and for him to be killed.

Circle gets the square.

Those guys have the freedom to post their hate speech and opinions and death threats publically without fear of censorship on the Internet.

The creator of this Tumblr has the freedom to repost this public information unedited on that Tumblr.

I don't see any problem at all!

 

[commedieu]

How do we know some of these people are actually racist? How do we know they aren't just joking around or acting stupid just for fun/to troll people? I know so many people who just make racist jokes, and people flip out and call them racist because they can't handle an innocent joke.

It doesn't matter. You call the president a nigger and mention he should be Lynched. Your information is public... people find out who you are.

 

[Deified Data]

#H8RZMAKEMEFAMOUS

#SORRYNOTSORRY

All I'm seeing are two more reasons why shaming on the internet isn't achieving its intended purpose.

One less nigger filled rant on the internet is a victory for people who don't want to see that shit. I thought it was obvious you can't always change their minds but you can at least get them to stop being hateful shits in public.

In my view, genuinely changing the mind of a single kid about this stuff is worth seeing a few (hundred) racism-laden rants down the line. As I said, our end-game is different.

 

[The Mana Legend]

It doesn't matter.

What do you mean? A witch hunt even for someone who just says something as a joke or to mock the type of people who actually do say stuff like that?

 

[Barbacoatl]

How do we know some of these people are actually racist? How do we know they aren't just joking around or acting stupid just for fun/to troll people? I know so many people who just make racist jokes, and people flip out and call them racist because they can't handle an innocent joke.

Are you familiar with the Michael Richards incident? He could be not racist at heart, but he sure did get in trouble for saying what he did. He had to assume the consequences. And you're right, people snap, but when they do it publicly, assuming public reaction is a sentient being, it isn't going to verify first if it was a joke or not.

 

[Htown]

How do we know some of these people are actually racist? How do we know they aren't just joking around or acting stupid just for fun/to troll people? I know so many people who just make racist jokes, and people flip out and call them racist because they can't handle an innocent joke.

You're right, it's up to the target of a racist joke not to be offended by a joke intended to offend them, and NOT up to the people making the racist jokes to, you know, stop being fucking racist.

 

[monchi-kun]

How do we know some of these people are actually racist? How do we know they aren't just joking around or acting stupid just for fun/to troll people? I know so many people who just make racist jokes, and people flip out and call them racist because they can't handle an innocent joke.

Racism is no joke....fuck it, there's nothing innocent about racism!

 

[commedieu]

All I'm seeing are two more reasons why shaming on the internet isn't achieving its intended purpose.

And what about the people that apologized? Come on stop being so obtuse about this.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

How do we know some of these people are actually racist? How do we know they aren't just joking around or acting stupid just for fun/to troll people? I know so many people who just make racist jokes, and people flip out and call them racist because they can't handle an innocent joke.

Well when you say racist things like that,people will think you are a racist.

 

[TheOMan]

How do we know some of these people are actually racist? How do we know they aren't just joking around or acting stupid just for fun/to troll people? I know so many people who just make racist jokes, and people flip out and call them racist because they can't handle an innocent joke.

What exactly is innocent about it again?

 

[Keikaku]

Shaming is not going to teach them and there's a chance it's going to cause the opposite. Also I consider the potential side effects too dangerous.

If I met the person in real life I'd try to talk with him/her about it, maybe one could try to (reasonably) approach the person via a social network. I don't know, I'm sorry I don't have a universal answer for that.

But it's a reasonable (and difficult) question: How does one battle racism, in general and regarding a particular person ? It took us Germans complete and utter defeat to see that we were wrong, but I don't consider that an option in modern society.

Maybe the best and only way is to get these people to get in contact with (for example) black people, to let these people learn first hand that there's no difference other than the color of our skin.

As long as people are (mostly) segregated from people with a different ethnic/cultural background prejudice and racism will always find a way to thrive, so it's also a general problem of society. For that purpose there have probably been many (good) approaches, such as events (e.g. a camp) where people from different backgrounds come together.



Now the question is were those people really racist to begin with ? Did they really change or are they just pretending because of severe backlash ? Does this justify everything negative that might come from this ? Deeds are better than words.

Did they really learn that racism is wrong or did they learn to not show it publicly ?

It's not like these people haven't had contact with black people before. Some of them live in places where as much as 20-30% of the population is black (Georgia or South Carolina, for example) which is far greater than the average for most states. They definitely see black people and have been exposed to them. It's not a question of meeting people or "going to a camp" with people of other color.

They live in areas with lengthy and well-documented legacies of racial discrimination so it's not like they don't know what racism is. What is happening is that, up until now, they simply haven't needed to care. They've been fine sharing these views in their personal social circle but now that espoused their views on a public forum to the larger, not racist population, they're facing backlash and rightly so.

 

[Devolution]

You're right, it's up to the target of a racist joke not to be offended by a joke intended to offend them, and NOT up to the people making the racist jokes to, you know, stop being fucking racist.

I'd make a joke to back you up but it'd be in such poor taste.

 

[The Mana Legend]

You're right, it's up to the target of a racist joke not to be offended by a joke intended to offend them, and NOT up to the people making the racist jokes to, you know, stop being fucking racist.

People making racist jokes doesn't automatically make the person racist. What the fuck is this shit?

 

[commedieu]

What do you mean? A witch hunt even for someone who just says something as a joke or to mock the type of people who actually do say stuff like that?

You don't know what a Witch Hunt is.

No one is hunting any of these people.
None of these people are accused of anything they didn't do.
These people have their public information posted on the internet.

People making racist jokes doesn't automatically make the person racist. What the fuck is this shit?

Who cares if they are racist or not? Their message is racist and violent. And it isn't something that their schools/employers/family wants to be associated with.

 

[Mumei]

It doesn't matter. You call the president a nigger and mention he should be Lynched. Your information is public... people find out who you are.

I agree.

In general, I care less about changing peoples' minds than I do about creating an environment in which social censure for bigotry is swift and harsh. I care less about whether someone has truly changed their mind than if they stop saying bigoted things. I understand the importance of education, but I think some things should simply be considered beyond the pale and in some cases the best education to demonstrate something being wrong is that social censure.

 

[Devolution]

People making racist jokes doesn't automatically make the person racist. What the fuck is this shit?

I hope that nigger president gets shot.

JUST KIDDING FELLAS.

 

[diamount]

Nothing reinforces your stance of being morally superior like going on a witch hunt.

If they are going to say something stupid then the least they can do is from a fake account, no sympathies otherwise.

 

[The Mana Legend]

I hope that nigger president gets shot.

JUST KIDDING FELLAS.

That's not a joke, that's a stupid comment in poor taste.

The guy I replied to implied that actual jokes automatically makes the joke teller racist.

 

[monchi-kun]

People making racist jokes doesn't automatically make the person racist. What the fuck is this shit?

This isn't Chris Rock or Louis CK where you know they use racist jokes to make a point.

 

[Barbacoatl]

People making racist jokes doesn't automatically make the person racist. What the fuck is this shit?

Well yeah, context and all. Woody Allen cracking jokes about his relatives has a context. A 23 yr old with a confederate flag tattoo craking threats and racial slurs is very, very different, it has a negative connotation due to, you know, historic reasons?

 

[scar tissue]

One less nigger filled rant on the internet is a victory for people who don't want to see that shit. I thought it was obvious you can't always change their minds but you can at least get them to stop being hateful shits in public.

I like my racists where I can see 'em.
Teaching them to fake tolerance in public is the wrong way, imo. They'll still be racists and do racist stuff when they think no-one is watching, but i won't know that they are racists.

 

[Devolution]

That's not a joke, that's a stupid comment in poor taste.

The guy I replied to implied that actual jokes automatically makes the joke teller racist.

In the context of what's going on here any discussion of racist jokes is some straw man.

I like my racists where I can see 'em.
Teaching them to fake tolerance in public is the wrong way, imo. They'll still be racists and do racist stuff when they think no-one is watching, but i won't know that they are racists.

Do you actually have to deal with racism on a day to day basis? I doubt you'd like to hear this shit.

 

[RPGamer92]

No internet.

Oh god how am I posting this message right now :O

 

[Wendel Clark]

Do you actually have to deal with racism on a day to day basis? I doubt you'd like to hear this shit.

I was just going to ask how many people here have ever had to deal with this bullshit.

 

[Deified Data]

And what about the people that apologized? Come on stop being so obtuse about this.

My argument is as straight-forward as I can manage.

Internet shaming does more harm than good. That's why I disagree with its use in this instance. For every kid scared into silence for fear of reprisal, there are a dozen more who's beliefs are only being further cemented. You're too smart to fall into the line of thinking that dictates the best way to change someone's mind is to aggressively confront them with their failings. Such things require more subtlety.

I repeat, if your intention is to do these kids harm and exact vengeance, this is a good way to do so. If your goal is to foster a more open-minded and thoughtful society, you're failing miserably.

That's all I have to say. With that I humbly bail.

 

[ISOM]

People making racist jokes doesn't automatically make the person racist. What the fuck is this shit?

I think that is the type of thinking that gets these young adults and teenagers to make these types of racist comments.

"Fuck that N Word president and those n words that supported him, but I'm not racist though!"

Give me a break

 

[Barbacoatl]

My argument is as straight-forward as I can manage.

Internet shaming does more harm than good. That's why I disagree with its use in this instance. For every kid scared into silence for fear of reprisal, there are a dozen more who's beliefs are only being further cemented. You're too smart to fall into the line of thinking that dictates the best way to change someone's mind is to aggressively confront them with their failings. Such things require more subtlety.

Hah, subtlety. Yeah, those people need some of that, I agree!

 

[monchi-kun]

There was very little subtlety in the civil rights movement. I don't understand why this needs to be handled with kit gloves.

 

[commedieu]

My argument is as straight-forward as I can manage.

Internet shaming does more harm than good. That's why I disagree with its use in this instance. For every kid scared into silence for fear of reprisal, there are a dozen more who's beliefs are only being further cemented. You're too smart to fall into the line of thinking that dictates the best way to change someone's mind is to aggressively confront them with their failings. Such things require more subtlety.

Its not the internets job or capacity to educate people about racism. There is no right or wrong in shaming. Public information on the internet happens, people do things with the information they find. Its not illegal, and morality is subjective. This thread, has too many people, like yourself, assigning traits to the internet and humanity that don't exist in reality.

You may not condone certain instances of shaming, but shaming is shaming.

My knowledge allows me to know that people will be people. Just like the people that are responding to these racist and violent comments. And just like the people that thought it was a good idea to call the president a nigger and to request his lynching.

The only lesson that these people all need to learn, is that the internet isn't their private hate filled soap-box. This happens all the time in our world. Keep your racism to yourself.

 

[NoirVisage]

I agree.

In general, I care less about changing peoples' minds than I do about creating an environment in which social censure for bigotry is swift and harsh. I care less about whether someone has truly changed their mind than if they stop saying bigoted things. I understand the importance of education, but I think some things should simply be considered beyond the pale and in some cases the best education to demonstrate something being wrong is that social censure.

well put reply, and agreed 100%

 

[Devolution]

There was very little subtlety in the civil rights movement.

It seems like the revisionist history now, since they have to accept it happened, is that those people were cordial, nice and did not encourage civil disobedience or calling racists out on their shit. Happened in this very thread no less.

 

[Mumei]

There was very little subtlety in the civil rights movement. I don't understand why this needs to be handled with kit gloves.

People are confusing non-violent with non-confrontational.

Spoiler

Though violent and confrontational existed, as well.

 

[Barbacoatl]

The disconnect from reality is staggering, doesn't help that many here don't even live in the U.S. and clearly seem to ignore some pretty important bits of history. Yet, they have the guts to claim their solutions are the civilized ones! Oh, what options you talk about again? Omission? Let them blacks and whites mingle more!?

SMH.

 

[Silas Lang]

I'm okay with this. Noticed on a lot of comments in response to the election that people not only seemed proud of their racism, they doubled down on it when confronted. If these people are so confident in their bullshit then I guess they won't care if the rest of the world is notified of their stupidity.

 

[The Adder]

People making racist jokes doesn't automatically make the person racist. What the fuck is this shit?

Easy fix, don't make racist jokes.

 

[The Adder]

Holy shit, someone in the 21st century that considers the pillory civilized ?

Then again there's obviously some big differences in the fundamental understanding of this, as e.g. the differences between our legal systems show. I suppose we should leave it at that, it's obvious we have a fundamentally different opinion on this and discussion won't lead anywhere.

Your laws make it illegal for them to say any of this in the first place under penalty of potential prosecution. WTF are you even talking about?

 

[perineumlick]

My argument is as straight-forward as I can manage.

Internet shaming does more harm than good. That's why I disagree with its use in this instance. For every kid scared into silence for fear of reprisal, there are a dozen more who's beliefs are only being further cemented. You're too smart to fall into the line of thinking that dictates the best way to change someone's mind is to aggressively confront them with their failings. Such things require more subtlety.

I repeat, if your intention is to do these kids harm and exact vengeance, this is a good way to do so. If your goal is to foster a more open-minded and thoughtful society, you're failing miserably.

That's all I have to say. With that I humbly bail.

Internet shaming is a consequence, in this case, of people spewing hateful and threatening messages towards people of color. Exposing their actions is the best way to make these shits think twice before repeating that garbage. I'm more concerned about the harm they may do towards the targets of their hate, rather than whether these idiots can find a job down the line in spite of their shameful past. I think that's the main thing getting lost in the shuffle here; the rights and feelings of those on the receiving end of the hate. If you are in your 20s, and are doing shit like this; I'm sorry, you are not an innocent kid, and should face whatever consequence follows.

 

[commedieu]

I'm okay with this. Noticed on a lot of comments in response to the election that people not only seemed proud of their racism, they doubled down on it when confronted. If these people are so confident in their bullshit then I guess they won't care if the rest of the world is notified of their stupidity.

So true. People don't realize how far into the hate hole these poor children went into.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmir...ir-google-results-for-life-jezebel-votes-yes/

Should Teenagers Have Racist Election Tweets In Their Google Results For Life? Jezebel Votes Yes.

“Even as a minor, you must be eventually held to some grown-up standards regarding the First Amendment, hate speech, and common sense,” she replied by email. “And I think there’s something larger at play here, and we’re going to see this kind of story over and over again until it’s innately understood that the line between ‘online’ and ‘in real life’ is basically nonexistent. As soon as you are old enough to understand what you’re saying — and high school is definitely past that point — what you say online matters. That’s the way the world works now.”

The legal system recognizes that young people make mistakes; teens get to shed their youthful indiscretions when their juvenile criminal records are expunged as they enter adulthood. Not so on search engines. Google chairman Eric Schmidt once kiddingly(?) suggested that kids should change their names as adults to get rid of youthful mistakes that get archived on the Internet; as arduous as that seems, at this point, it’s one of the few viable solutions.

I asked Google if they (or their future-thinking X Lab) have come up with any better solutions since then. A spokesperson just pointed me to a Google help page about removing content from your search results — which is only helpful if your social security or credit card number has been exposed by a site. “Think twice before putting personal information online,” it reminds users, a little too late for these teens. Alternately, these kids can get down on their little racist knees and beg Jezebel to add a tag to keep search engines from crawling the page and putting it into their search results.

 

[Barbacoatl]

Holy shit, someone in the 21st century that considers the pillory civilized ?

Then again there's obviously some big differences in the fundamental understanding of this, as e.g. the differences between our legal systems show. I suppose we should leave it at that, it's obvious we have a fundamentally different opinion on this and discussion won't lead anywhere.

You know what, please take those people in the tumblr to the 21st century with you, because they're living in the 1800's; see if they change their minds.

 

[Keikaku]

Holy shit, someone in the 21st century that considers the pillory civilized ?

Then again there's obviously some big differences in the fundamental understanding of this, as e.g. the differences between our legal systems show. I suppose we should leave it at that, it's obvious we have a fundamentally different opinion on this and discussion won't lead anywhere.

Except your definition of civilized seems to encompass:

• It's not civilized to point out racist people or share information about them that they made publicly available
• I have no fix for how to make them less racist but I think that this isn't it
• Since I have no idea how to fix it, but I know that I do not agree with public shaming, someone else should figure out a "civilized" method

That's a pretty terrible definition of civilization.

 

[perineumlick]

Except your definition of civilized seems to encompass:

• It's not civilized to point out racist people or share information about them that they made publicly available
• I have no fix for how to make them less racist but I think that this isn't it
• Since I have no idea how to fix it, but I know that I do not agree with public shaming, someone else should figure out a "civilized" method

That's a pretty terrible definition of civilization.

Lol. Amen.

 

[KtSlime]

Holy shit, someone in the 21st century that considers the pillory civilized ?

Then again there's obviously some big differences in the fundamental understanding of this, as e.g. the differences between our legal systems show. I suppose we should leave it at that, it's obvious we have a fundamentally different opinion on this and discussion won't lead anywhere.

An aggregation of racists' own words on a website ARE NOT STOCKS. Do you consider public servants who get exposed for affairs by the News also pillory?