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Gay and Bisexual thread |OT2|Bears and Twinks and Otters. Oh My!

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My mom initially wanted me to go to reorientation therapy after I came out to them, but after a couple of intense you-have-got-to-be-kidding discussions and some time, she came around.
 
needlejuice said:
Apologies I don't know how to multi quote but to answer the above questions...

He was semi closeted and these feelings were recent. I just believe that truth be told he's not happy being gay and is prepared to do whatever it takes to not live that life.

Trust me I want him in my life in whatever capacity is possible but it will hurt like hell to be near him but not near him if you know what I mean.

Is there much/any literature out there about trying to change your sexuality?
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Well.. the best known pray away the gay group, Exodus International, had two male founders who left the group for each other and have both said many times that the organization is a fraud. Gay conversion therapy has been discredited and condemned by nearly every psychological organization throughout the world. It has recently been outlawed in California.
 
There was a programme on TV recently that I think he may have watched. It was a group of American men that were going through this process.

That may along with the recen trips to church helped inspire him.

Who knows? I just know I'm totally heartbroken.
 
 
needlejuice said:
There was a programme on TV recently that I think he may have watched. It was a group of American men that were going through this process.

That may along with the recen trips to church helped inspire him.

Who knows? I just know I'm totally heartbroken.
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I would read up on the subject and convince him through science and facts that this will only cause him greater stress. I assume there is a lot of pressure from his family to change?
 
I knew I had this article saved somewhere.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/lifeandstyle/2012/apr/20/i-tried-to-cure-gay-people

The guy, Jeremy Marks, (a gay) started a group called "Courage" in 1986 in order to "cure" homosexuality. In 1991 he married to a women. However, around 2000 he understood that what he was doing with the Courage was wrong and based on misunderstanding.

The last few paragraphs are the most important here:
A few years later, we had to close our live-in discipleship houses, but I kept in touch with people afterwards and was dismayed to see what happened. Once people were on their own again, their world collapsed. Family and friends would say, "So, when are we going to hear wedding bells?" It never occurred to them that maybe you are gay because that's just the way you are. I began to see more people losing hope, getting severely depressed. One made a serious suicide attempt.

By the end of the 1990s, the only ones doing well were those who'd accepted they were gay and found a partner. It was as if a great burden had been shifted, that they thought, "Now at last I know who I am. I know I'm in love with somebody and they love me." I thought, this is the kind of result we hoped they'd achieve living an upright Christian life, but they're finding that contentment just being themselves. I began to think that perhaps we'd got it really wrong.

I still run Courage, but now it's with a belief that you can be gay and Christian. We offer a chance to meet other gay Christians and support committed same-sex relationships. It's been difficult for my wife, because she's naturally very concerned that I might therefore decide, "That's it, I want to go and find a man." But we're coming up to retirement age and I wouldn't feel happy just to leave her – feeling abandoned after all we've been through together. Ours may not be the traditional heterosexual romance, but the care for one another's wellbeing is just as real. I try not to look back, but I know I've missed out in a big way – and so has she. She should have been with some heterosexual guy who adored her, as she should be adored.
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Teh Hamburglar said:
I would read up on the subject and convince him through science and facts that this will only cause him greater stress. I assume there is a lot of pressure from his family to change?
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Certainly a great deal of the pressure is from his family. He has a large inheritance and I know he feels the weight of the family tree and the need to produce an heir and pass on what will one day be his to his own son.

God love him really... Part of me admires and is proud of him for the sacrifice he's making. However I am also very sad that I've lost him. In all honesty I would do everything I can to help him realise his dream, but I know it would utterly be killing me at the same time.
 
Prez said:
I did a search and found a lot of books on Amazon:

You Don't Have to Be Gay: Hope and Freedom for Males Struggling With Homosexuality or for Those Who Know of Someone Who Is
Leaving Homosexuality: A Practical Guide for Men and Women Looking for a Way Out
Reparative Therapy of Male Homosexuality: A New Clinical Approach
Setting Love in Order: Hope and Healing for the Homosexual
Pursuing Sexual Wholeness: How Jesus Heals the Homosexual
Coming Out of Homosexuality: New Freedom for Men and Women
Desires in Conflict: Hope for Men Who Struggle with Sexual Identity
Broken Image, The: Restoring Personal Wholeness through Healing Prayer
Out of Egypt: A Journey from Lesbianism to God's Healing Love
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Thanks for that. I've saved the books into my Amazon wish list. Strange to read the reviews on the books - So much indifference and agendas, it's hard to know who is telling the truth!
 
needlejuice said:
Thanks for that. I've saved the books into my Amazon wish list. Strange to read the reviews on the books - So much indifference and agendas, it's hard to know who is telling the truth!
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Why do you want to read any of those? You know they're full of shit, right? If you're trying to understand their point of view, I'm pretty sure that's impossible. It's just brainwashing.
 
Prez said:
Why do you want to read any of those? You know they're full of shit, right? If you're trying to understand their point of view, I'm pretty sure that's impossible. It's just brainwashing.
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I'm sorry he's so deeply conflicted, but my thoughts exactly. Might as well be buying books that promise to change the colour of your eyes or something.

My heart breaks for people who can't count on the support of their families. I feel I was fortunate in that regard.
 
Bel Marduk said:
It was.. unappealing but not really repulsive.. like eating a papaya, i suppose.
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Was it the sensation that reminded you of papaya or the taste?

I have a feeling like we've had this conversation before...

needlejuice said:
Apologies I don't know how to multi quote but to answer the above questions...
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Just click on the little + sign left of the Quote button. When you're done selecting the posts you want to quote, just hit Post Reply.

Is there much/any literature out there about trying to change your sexuality?
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Yes, and they pretty much all say that it can't be done.

needlejuice said:
He has a large inheritance and I know he feels the weight of the family tree and the need to produce an heir and pass on what will one day be his to his own son.
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This is still possible as a gay man! Gay men can still have biological children to pass inheritances on to!
 
needlejuice said:
Thanks all for the support and advice. However he's extremely determined to give his life meaning and purpose. That of course means a wife and kids.

It's heart breaking to have to deal with this. He wants my friendship and support but nothing more. I'm not sure I can do that.

Anyway thanks again and well I'm just going to have to try and get on with my life without him.
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No offense, but fuck him: It isn't your problem. If he wanted to pass on heirs, blow a load of knuckle children, freeze them and have some girl pick it up. Or better yet: Adopt a kid since we don't need more vaginas spitting out (un)wanted kids for a while. He'd be giving some kid a lucky break.
 
RatskyWatsky said:
Was it the sensation that reminded you of papaya or the taste?

I have a feeling like we've had this conversation before...
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Well, it was mostly the sensation rather than the taste. On the inside, papayas are shaped in a way that is not really appealing to me personally and the seeds look weird. They're actually pretty tasty but its something about their appearance that is off-putting but not really repulsive. I don't know if we've talked about it before.. maybe on this thread..
 
Prez said:
So? He's trying to understand what's going on in his boyfriend's mind, not what's right or wrong. I'm pretty sure he's already established that.
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Is that right? Maybe I misread, but I thought that he wanted books that decried pray the gay away so he could have some ammo to help convince his bf against it.

Bel Marduk said:
Well, it was mostly the sensation rather than the taste. On the inside, papayas are shaped in a way that is not really appealing to me personally and the seeds look weird. They're actually pretty tasty but its something about their appearance that is off-putting but not really repulsive. I don't know if we've talked about it before.. maybe on this thread..
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Ah okay. I don't like papaya so I wasn't really aware of what they looked like inside. And I wondered why so many people like to eat bananas and papayas together. :O
 
RatskyWatsky said:
Is that right? Maybe I misread, but I thought that he wanted books that decried pray the gay away so he could have some ammo to help convince his bf against it.
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It could be interpreted that way, but in a later post he said this:

needlejuice said:
Sorry :(


Yeah I want to try and understand...
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But I think if he really wants to understand, he should read up about religion's obsession with high morals and rules. Radical Honesty is a book that deals with that subject, but in a much broader sense than just religion.

Here's a quote I pm'ed to him from that book:

Beliefs about how we should behave are all bullshit. There is no way for us to do the right thing. Thinking we are doing the right thing is a part of the illusion of being in control. When you place your faith in your own judgment, you place your faith in your judge. You get to believing that your judge is who you are. Catholic parochial education is a perfect model for teaching children that their superegos are who they are. Investment in that belief is the antithesis of healthy aliveness. As a psychotherapist, curing Catholicism is one of the biggest challenges I have. If I put that on an insurance form as a diagnosis, the insurance company won't pay for my services, so I use terminology from another model: "anxiety neurosis." One of the worst and most resistant strains of anxiety neurosis is implanted by the Catholic Church because they teach young children that the most important thing in life is being right. Almost all of South America is an exemplary backwater of Catholicism. The Catholic Church is by no means the only source of this teaching, it's just that they are particularly good at it. But we all suffer from varying degrees of this "catholic" disease.

It is a milestone in growing up to get this: there is no way to be right. There is no right way to behave. There is no way to know you have done the right thing. There is no way to know if what you are planning to do is right. If you got the abortion, was it the right thing? If you had the baby, was it right? You do what you do. You did what you did. The right and the wrong of it are not worth spending a lot of time on.
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needlejuice said:
Thanks for that. I've saved the books into my Amazon wish list. Strange to read the reviews on the books - So much indifference and agendas, it's hard to know who is telling the truth!
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Remember most of what is said in those books defies logic to begin with. This is a sad and painful road that never ends well. if you care for him you should try to get him out of that, not because you want him, but because this might do severe damage to him.

At the end, I guess is similar to dealing with a drug addict, their mind is fucked up but they can't see it, and they will continue doing something that's self destructive, you can be there for them, but there is little you can do besides that.

Ok the comparison is a bit harsh, I think is easier to get our of your own homophobia, but it's still a difficult journey.
 
Mr_Zombie said:
You can leave him as a boyfriend, but don't leave him as a friend. He will need you. "Pray the gay away" basically encourages you to hate who you are and what you're doing (as a gay); Needless to say, that's not healthy, especially since the "pray away" method isn't really effective.
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No, he should not have to be there for his ex-boyfriend who decided he "needs" to be straight (for whatever BS reason). That's not fair to him and that's not fair to the person he has been with for 3 years.
He has to make it clear that he is saddened and upset by his ex choice. However in the end it's the other person's choice and sadly you can't do anything about it.

needlejuice said:
God love him really... Part of me admires and is proud of him for the sacrifice he's making. However I am also very sad that I've lost him. In all honesty I would do everything I can to help him realise his dream, but I know it would utterly be killing me at the same time.
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Pride? Fuck that. Caving in to family pressure about some bullshit idea of how your life should be lived is nothing to be proud of. As I see it he is giving in to people who think they know better than him how his life should be lived. Accepting yourself as who you are (whatever you are) is infinitely more brave and courageous than giving in to some antiquated idea of how your life should be lived.

needlejuice said:
Thanks for that. I've saved the books into my Amazon wish list. Strange to read the reviews on the books - So much indifference and agendas, it's hard to know who is telling the truth!
Click to expand...

I think it's pretty clear. They are just lying to themselves and there is no choice to be made. The only one is to choose to reject your true self and to ignore your attraction to men, to marry some girl and ruin your life, that girl's life and you kid's lives in the process.
 
TheSeks said:
What is wrong with this? Until you hit gay death age you should be in that zone.
Okay, no you shouldn't with HIV and shit like that.
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I haven't really met any guys I was attracted to who who were also attracted to me, so I'm kind of a guy virgin in that regard.

I mean I could probably get sexytimes if I wanted to, but what good is getting sexytimes with just anyone if all you're doing is settling for someone you're not really attracted to and just using for sex? I guess I'm just interested in something with more substance.
 
BlazingDarkness said:
So how's all your love lives going?
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Love life...

WQjtg.gif
 
Northwest Florida is full of way too many closet cases and people who can't do something as simple as commit to a date. The problem is amplified by the fact that the selection is incredibly slim around here. The closest gay bar is an hour away from here.
 
Parn said:
Northwest Florida is full of way too many closet cases and people who can't do something as simple as commit to a date. The problem is amplified by the fact that the selection is incredibly slim around here. The closest gay bar is an hour away from here.
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You may have to branch out a bit... New Orleans is pretty far but that city has an amazing history and is extremely gay friendly. Gainesville is a smallish city but its very liberal and college oriented. The Orlando area has one of the highest concentrations of gay people in the country due to the large amounts of homos who have come from far and wide so they can make $7/hr at Disney World.

I know all these places are a few hours drive for you, but NW Florida is extremely conservative to the point where its uncomfortable for gay people.. when I first came out, I lived in Mobile and it was the same thing. My friends all knew about me, but so few others were out but when I moved to New Orleans , my entire life changed.
 
New Orleans is something of a gay mecca nowadays. Lots of guys (and gals) from all over the South have flocked here, feeling safer to live their lives freely than when they were living in their small towns. I don't remember where I read it, but apparently we now have one of the highest LGBT populations per capita in the country. (Important note: that's for the city itself. The suburbs are an entirely different situation culturally/politically/statistically.)

It was definitely a factor when choosing where to live when we were wanting to move back east from Texas. I'm thinking that a gay couple raising children is going to have a much easier time here than in many other places in the region. Heck, I've already met a few couples at my place of employment who either already have kids or are in the planning stages.
 
After a long break, I finally fired up ME3 again so I can complete the Leviathan of Dis DLC. I have forgotten how hot/good-looking my Shepard is. I can't concentrate on the gameplay because I kept re-loading the cut scene prior to the sea descent so I can stare at his handsome face. This is not normal, right?

I hope I can import his face to the upcoming ME trilogy thing coming to PS3. It'd be nice to play ME1 with this face tech ME3 has.
 
Alcoori said:
No, he should not have to be there for his ex-boyfriend who decided he "needs" to be straight (for whatever BS reason). That's not fair to him and that's not fair to the person he has been with for 3 years.
He has to make it clear that he is saddened and upset by his ex choice. However in the end it's the other person's choice and sadly you can't do anything about it.
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I'm not saying that he should wait for him or anything; it's clear that the guy doesn't want to be gay so the relationship sure is over. And yes, I understand that it's that guy's choice. But just like when your friend starts doing drugs, you should not abandon him and leave him all by himself with the problem.

The only one is to choose to reject your true self and to ignore your attraction to men, to marry some girl and ruin your life, that girl's life and you kid's lives in the process.
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I agree with that. The method is not only damaging for the person who tries to change their sexual orientation, but is also damaging for that person's future family. Even if you can learn how to suppress sexual desires for people of your own gender, you won't be able to learn to lust for people of opposite gender.

Replicant said:
After a long break, I finally fired up ME3 again so I can complete the Leviathan of Dis DLC. I have forgotten how hot/good-looking my Shepard is. I can't concentrate on the gameplay because I kept re-loading the cut scene prior to the sea descent so I can stare at his handsome face. This is not normal, right?
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Nope, but I've been guilty of this myself. I remember installing EVE Online just so I can play with the character creator and stare at my characters :lol
 
I find my Shepard hotter than most guys in the ME universe, but I think part of that is because I created them to match what I consider handsome.
 
Man. Met (another) guy of my dreams on the dance floor last night. Crazy connection. Nice confidence boost too. Lol

We made jokes about how these things rarely go anywhere but that we both really wanna hang out this week and see what's up.

The guy can KISS like a champ.

Wish me luck boys. Very overdue in this department lol
 
Trigger said:
I find my Shepard hotter than most guys in the ME universe, but I think part of that is because I created them to match what I consider handsome.
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My Shepard is better. Wait, I think someone in this thread recommended me a face to play as...hmm.
 
Magnus said:
Man. Met (another) guy of my dreams on the dance floor last night. Crazy connection. Nice confidence boost too. Lol

We made jokes about how these things rarely go anywhere but that we both really wanna hang out this week and see what's up.

The guy can KISS like a champ.

Wish me luck boys. Very overdue in this department lol
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Niiiiiiice.

Hope it works out!
 
Prez said:
This incredibly hot guy who's way above my league wants to sleep with me. I should do this right? I'm hoping he's not some serial killer or someone who robs gay people (the robbing does happen here sometimes).
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To get back on this: I don't have the guts to do it. Something's just not right. Attractive people always ignore me, so it's hard for me to grasp that a hot guy finds me attractive.
 
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