Support NeoGAF

[Branduil]

I think there's truth to this, but I don't think Trek is explicitly *not* about the manifestation of revenge. A lot of the best TOS episodes focused around base human emotions like that. I think, for example, Kirk's struggles with his anger at the Klingons, made more personal by the events of STIII, is part of what makes it such a fantastic film.

The real problem with the series' continued attempts to redux TWoK is that they always approached it very superficially. Nemesis, as the most extreme example, is almost a ridiculous parody of TWoK because it tries to follow it note for note but misses out on all the subtlety.

Right. There's nothing wrong with it being a subject for the films, after all the best movies, Wrath of Khan and The Undiscovered Country, develop it in a believable and interesting way. Even First Contact had an alright take on it. The problem is that revenge seems to be the only story they want to tell any more. Also, what Star Trek II, VI, and VIII all had in common was that there was a strong established backstory for the events of the film. Wrath of Khan was set up by Space Seed. The Undiscovered Country was set up by The Search for Spock and the history of war between the Klingons and the Federation. First Contact was set up by The Best of Both Worlds.

With the reboot, there's no longer any established history for the characters. So all these revenge plots can only be set up by five minutes of backstory exposition. The end result is stuff like Nero's trite and infantile revenge motivation.

 

[Ganhyun]

Hoping this goes well. Lots of movies I want to see next year. This is one of them.

 

[Messypandas]

*Cut to kirk kneeling over dead spock*

GARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

 

[Gr1mLock]

So the Federation is America, then?

Earf, Galaxy police.

 

[maharg]

Right. There's nothing wrong with it being a subject for the films, after all the best movies, Wrath of Khan and The Undiscovered Country, develop it in a believable and interesting way. Even First Contact had an alright take on it. The problem is that revenge seems to be the only story they want to tell any more. Also, what Star Trek II, VI, and VIII all had in common was that there was a strong established backstory for the events of the film. Wrath of Khan was set up by Space Seed. The Undiscovered Country was set up by The Search for Spock and the history of war between the Klingons and the Federation. First Contact was set up by The Best of Both Worlds.

With the reboot, there's no longer any established history for the characters. So all these revenge plots can only be set up by five minutes of backstory exposition. The end result is stuff like Nero's trite and infantile revenge motivation.

I think that as they move forward in time there's an opportunity to pull in more details from the original universe and leave the backstory there.

I think, in fact, that that's exactly what they'd be doing by using Gary Mitchell here. Whatever backstory he has is almost certainly very similar to that established in To Boldy Go Yadda Yadda. I expect Gary Mitchell in this film to have been left for dead on the rim, whether by Kirk or by someone else. Seems like the comics establish that idea as well.

Likewise, whenever Klingons get involved they will be able to pull from the depths of canon available to them while still telling new stories.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Don't the comics already have him fully superpowered and fighting Kirk? Or do the comics end with him left for dead?

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

Also, what Star Trek II, VI, and VIII all had in common was that there was a strong established backstory for the events of the film. Wrath of Khan was set up by Space Seed. The Undiscovered Country was set up by The Search for Spock and the history of war between the Klingons and the Federation. First Contact was set up by The Best of Both Worlds.

I'll give you the strong established backstory for the Klingon/Federation war and for the Borg, but I'm not so sure a one-off episode 15 years prior to The Wrath of Khan's release counts. I'm guessing that only diehard Trek fans remembered Khan and that storyline when the movie released.

 

[Choke on the Magic]

Right. There's nothing wrong with it being a subject for the films, after all the best movies, Wrath of Khan and The Undiscovered Country, develop it in a believable and interesting way. Even First Contact had an alright take on it. The problem is that revenge seems to be the only story they want to tell any more. Also, what Star Trek II, VI, and VIII all had in common was that there was a strong established backstory for the events of the film. Wrath of Khan was set up by Space Seed. The Undiscovered Country was set up by The Search for Spock and the history of war between the Klingons and the Federation. First Contact was set up by The Best of Both Worlds.

With the reboot, there's no longer any established history for the characters. So all these revenge plots can only be set up by five minutes of backstory exposition. The end result is stuff like Nero's trite and infantile revenge motivation.

While the events of Space Seed will never happen Khan still exists in cryo-sleep or whatever in space. While you wouldn't have a Wrath of Khan situation with Khan and Kirk, it's plausible to think if someone wakes Khan up that he'd gather an army or something and attack Earth. He was a genetic super soldier so he should be a certified bad ass.

 

[thetrin]

Don't the comics already have him fully superpowered and fighting Kirk? Or do the comics end with him left for dead?

He's superpowered, and he has a moment where he fights back, shows his human side, and asks Kirk to shoot and kill him.
Kirk shoots him in the chest, drops to his knees, has a moment, and then they leave the planet, believing him to be dead.

 

[JdFoX187]

He's superpowered, and he has a moment where he fights back, shows his human side, and asks Kirk to shoot and kill him.
Kirk shoots him in the chest, drops to his knees, has a moment, and then they leave the planet, believing him to be dead.

Seems like an easy way to bring him back, then. Certainly has more certainty than Kahn being awoken in this.

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Mitchell: Did you not think I would return, Jim? Hmm?

[Jim looks up and sees Mitchell step out from the shadows in front of him]

Mitchell: I told you I was immortal.

Kirk: I watched...I watched you die.

Mitchell: Oh, there are many forms of immortality. For instance, I have super space god powers.

 

[DrEvil]

Mitchell: Did you not think I would return, Jim? Hmm?

[Jim looks up and sees Mitchell step out from the shadows in front of him]

Mitchell: I told you I was immortal.

Kirk: I watched...I watched you die.

Mitchell: Oh, there are many forms of immortality. For instance, I have super space god powers.

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

Kurtzman and Orci write really fun films. The Star Trek reboot, Mission: Impossible III , Transformers, and The Island (which I think is underrated, Bay was still coming off a lot of flak from Pearl Harbor) are all a blast to watch, they don't take themselves too seriously, they can be very funny in parts, and time flies by when you're watching them.

Sure they're not the most intelligent films, but if they can deliver anything like their first Star Trek film you can count me in.

 

[slightconfuse]

What are the chancs of TNG getting this style of movie reboot?? i want that so badly

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

What are the chancs of TNG getting this style of movie reboot?? i want that so badly

0%

 

[JdFoX187]

What are the chancs of TNG getting this style of movie reboot?? i want that so badly

None. To Abrams, TOS is the only 'Trek that matters.

 

[Davey Cakes]

I was lukewarm on the 2009 movie. Maybe it wasn't exactly my thing. Also, I watched it before I did my first full watches of Star Trek TNG and Deep Space Nine and got more into the franchise.

Since I have only seen bits and pieces of TOS, maybe my lack of connection to that show is one of the reasons I wasn't huge on ST 2009. Then again, there's an obvious divide between the shows and movies anyway. Ever since I was a kid I was familiar with the Star Trek franchise (mostly with TNG, even though it was years before I watched it in dedicated fashion) and I didn't really care much for the TNG movies either. Of course, they were mostly crap, but it's not like familiarity salvaged them (other than First Contact, anyway).

I forgive ST 2009 for its shortcomings because it was the reboot movie and had to set everything up. I enjoyed it for what it was but accepted what happens when you need to re-start an entire franchise in one movie and set a new tone and direction. With the sequel, I figured the "reboot chains" would be gone, and we'd see a much more engaging movie because everything has already been established and the story can go full throttle into new territory.

From the trailer, I won't judge the entire movie just yet but based on the little I've seen, I'm not feeling it just yet. Not big on the "revenge" plot, certainly. Also not big on having as single villain again. ST:ID looks like a typical blockbuster with the Star Trek label slapped on. I hope I'm wrong though; now that I'm more into Trek than ever, I'd certainly like to enjoy the experience of a new movie.

 

[slightconfuse]

im suprised there was no tv or aimated show that spun out of the 2009 movie.

Also abrams is wrong

 

[Matt]

im suprised there was no tv or aimated show that spun out of the 2009 movie.

Also abrams is wrong

You should not be surprised. ST on TV is dead, at least for a long, long time.

 

[thetrin]

im suprised there was no tv or aimated show that spun out of the 2009 movie.

Also abrams is wrong

Read the comic. It's got Trek show pacing.

 

[Technosteve]

So i'm going to assume the plot to this movie is going to be bad since it's an even number star trek movie. But I don't know how it will beat the time traveling space miners from the first movie.

 

[Matt]

So i'm going to assume the plot to this movie is going to be bad since it's an even number star trek movie. But I don't know how it will beat the time traveling space miners from the first movie.

The even movies are the good movies...

 

[SpaceHorror]

Don't see how it could be anyone other than Mitchell now.

Writer confirmed that both Cumberbatch and Eve play canon characters, it fits for Mitchell and Dehner. Eve is a splitting image of Dehner in the trailer

Yeah, he also says that the villain isn't Mitchell, but come on.

 

[thetrin]

So i'm going to assume the plot to this movie is going to be bad since it's an even number star trek movie. But I don't know how it will beat the time traveling space miners from the first movie.

You have that backwards.

 

[Technosteve]

Blah

 

[maharg]

The even movies are the good movies...

And that only works for the first 6. If you exclude 3, which really isn't that bad and I'm convinced most people think it *is* bad only because of the odd number rule.

 

[Branduil]

Star Trek on TV again will surely happen eventually, but not anytime soon.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

And that only works for the first 6.

For most people it works for the first 8.

 

[maharg]

For most people it works for the first 8.

Only because people are so desperate for any of the TNG movies to be good they ignore all of First Contact's flaws.

 

[XiaNaphryz]

Gary Mitchell is the worst villain name ever.

"Oh shit... It's GARY!"

 

[Tookay]

Right. There's nothing wrong with it being a subject for the films, after all the best movies, Wrath of Khan and The Undiscovered Country, develop it in a believable and interesting way. Even First Contact had an alright take on it. The problem is that revenge seems to be the only story they want to tell any more. Also, what Star Trek II, VI, and VIII all had in common was that there was a strong established backstory for the events of the film. Wrath of Khan was set up by Space Seed. The Undiscovered Country was set up by The Search for Spock and the history of war between the Klingons and the Federation. First Contact was set up by The Best of Both Worlds.

With the reboot, there's no longer any established history for the characters. So all these revenge plots can only be set up by five minutes of backstory exposition. The end result is stuff like Nero's trite and infantile revenge motivation.

Well said. They've turned to the Khan/revenge well too many times, trying to get that magic back, but they don't understand why that magic existed in the first place.

Don't see how it could be anyone other than Mitchell now.

Writer confirmed that both Cumberbatch and Eve play canon characters, it fits for Mitchell and Dehner. Eve is a splitting image of Dehner in the trailer

Yeah, he also says that the villain isn't Mitchell, but come on.

Could make her Carol Marcus too. But yeah I don't think it's Khan either at this point.

And that only works for the first 6. If you exclude 3, which really isn't that bad and I'm convinced most people think it *is* bad only because of the odd number rule.

I think it applies to the first eight. I know that people don't like Action Picard, but FC is a better popcorn flick than what ST09 (and other Kurtzman/Orci collaborations) attempted to be.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

Only because people are so desperate for any of the TNG movies to be good they ignore all of First Contact's flaws.

Bah. Out of the first 8, only 2 and 6 are better than 8. In fact, 4 almost breaks the even number rule.

 

[Technosteve]

I want a Deep Space Nine movie, and a Voyager Movie because i'm horrible and I watched every episode during highschool.

 

[Branduil]

Bah. Out of the first 8, only 2 and 6 are better than 8. In fact, 4 almost breaks the even number rule.

4 is great.

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

I want a Deep Space Nine movie, and a Voyager Movie because i'm horrible and I watched every episode during highschool.

There's a special place in hell reserved for people like you.

Spoiler

I'm probably going there too.

4 is great.

The whales are too schmaltzy.

 

[Sapiens]

Bah. Out of the first 8, only 2 and 6 are better than 8. In fact, 4 almost breaks the even number rule.

Not even close!

What is this revisionist shit?!

The Voyage Home was probably the most Trek of all the films! God forbid it be a little cheesy....

I want a Deep Space Nine movie, and a Voyager Movie because i'm horrible and I watched every episode during highschool.

We all watched Voyager in high school. Seven of Nine appeared at exactly the same time I started masturbating all the time.

 

[Branduil]

Star Trek Into Neelix

 

[TangoAlphaLima]

Not even close!

What is this revisionist shit?!

The Voyage Home was probably the most Trek of all the films! God forbid it be a little cheesy....

I didn't say it does break the rule, it just almost does. 2, 6, and 8 are great, but 4 is probably closer to 3 than it is to the other even numbered ones.

 

[Sapiens]

I didn't say it does break the rule, it just almost does. 2, 6, and 8 are great, but 4 is probably closer to 3 than it is to the other even numbered ones.

P(f^100)t

 

[NotTheGuyYouKill]

Idris Elba for Khan in ST XIII

Anyone? Anyone?

Personally though, if they ever do Khan, I think Aamir Khan should play him. Good actor. And actually is Indian. And his name is actually Khan.

 

[Biggest-Geek-Ever]

I'm sure Tom Wright would be down for playing Tuvix again... A Tuvix out for revenge.

Idris Elba for Khan in ST XIII

Elba as Tuvix! Shiiiiiit

 

[Kaladin]

The Voyage Home is my second favorite original cast film, behind Wrath of Khan.

 

[Branduil]

I didn't say it does break the rule, it just almost does. 2, 6, and 8 are great, but 4 is probably closer to 3 than it is to the other even numbered ones.

4 is way better than the stupid lameness of Search for Spock.

 

[thetrin]

I think it applies to the first eight. I know that people don't like Action Picard, but FC is a better popcorn flick than what ST09 (and other Kurtzman/Orci collaborations) attempted to be.

FC better than ST09? What is this insanity?

 

[maharg]

The genuinely bad trek movies are 1, 5, 9, and 10. 3 and 7 are mostly just mediocre. From a sample of 10 that does not an odd/even rule make. Or at least not usefully so. I wouldn't tell someone to skip 3 or 7 if they were watching through the movies, and that's usually how the rule is portrayed.

*waits for someone to argue that 1 was the best, because there's always one of those*

 

[Branduil]

I think 7 is a lot worse than 8.

 

[maharg]

I think 7 is a lot worse than 8.

Off by one error, corrected.

 

[Technosteve]

We all watched Voyager in high school. Seven of Nine appeared at exactly the same time I started masturbating all the time.

Enterprise was superior fapping material

 

[Sapiens]

Idris Elba for Khan in ST XIII



Anyone? Anyone?

Personally though, if they ever do Khan, I think Aamir Khan should play him. Good actor. And actually is Indian.

Oh Lord, Amir Khan. Don't get me started. Lagaan was the biggest ripoff of the Mighty Ducks I EVER saw.

And the "Amir Khan Productions" intro with his logo took ten minutes as the "A" in his name turned into all these shitty CG effects...

Well, he's just full of himself enough to understand the part.

 

[MrCunningham]

Gary: "I chose you, Centaurian slug!"