GoldenEye 007
Member
But it's inconsequential to anything important. Why not let them have their fun and imagination for a few years then grow out of it?
Did Santa piss in your cornflakes or something lol?
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Lying to kids about Santa
- Thread starter IHaveCandy
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But it's inconsequential to anything important. Why not let them have their fun and imagination for a few years then grow out of it?
Did Santa piss in your cornflakes or something lol?
What will you do when your daugher brings her first boyfriend home? "Honey, this shit isn't going to last. GTFO with love and that crap, you're 14. Having a fun time now and enjoying it really isn't benefitial in my opinion".
IHaveCandy
Banned
Worked pretty well with Skinner's dog.
Children are too young to understand certain things. They'll not understand "Please behave at the hairdresser because it leaves a bad impression on mommy" but they'll get that good behavior results in something good. Having kids behave a certain way is all about various kinds of rewards and rewards/reinforcements have been proven to work fine for parenting purposes.
I disagree. I think children are more capable at learning ethics than people give them credit for. The problem is that children require a lot more work to be taught. It's a lot easier to bargain with kids, but it isn't the best way to do it. I'm not saying rewards and punishments are completely bad. There is a place for those. But straight up making a bargain of "Be nice and you'll get what you want" isn't teaching them anything good.
For children it is. It's the happiest time of the year for them, and they look forward to all year long. I would feel bad for kids who had parents that just right out told them, out of the gate, "yo son, santa ain't real."
I wouldn't personally teach the idea of God to my children, because I don't believe he/she/it exists, but I would gladly allow them to believe Santa was real for however long they are willing to believe/find out on their own. The concept of a God has far more deeply seeded implications than Santa.
StealthGoblin
Banned
I work in a Primary school.
Its fucking annoying to have to keep the lie going, so I just don't comment on it anymore. I've taught them all to think critically and thankfully some of the kids are coming to the right conclusion on their own.
Its fucking annoying to have to keep the lie going, so I just don't comment on it anymore. I've taught them all to think critically and thankfully some of the kids are coming to the right conclusion on their own.
Dark Octave
Banned
Santa is the child version of God. A method used to keep people in line with rewards and threats.
Not sure what direction we'll go with ours though. Still debating. It is kinda fun I guess.
Not sure what direction we'll go with ours though. Still debating. It is kinda fun I guess.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Believing in a lie isn't imagination. The human population in 800 AD who thought the world was flat were not using their imagination. They truly believed it was a fact. They just happened to be wrong. Same with Santa.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
We had a pretty heated discussion on this matter last year which seemed to boil down to a portion of parents that wanted credit for getting their kids the presents, versus the made-up magical explanation.
I'll just say that some of my most memorable childhood memories involved Santa, and the excitement of the weeks leading up to Christmas eve and day with my brother and I, cousins, family, is simply unmatched. I'm not scarred. I don't hate my parents. What kind of messed up kid would be? For being lied to about Santa? They were wonderful beautiful times, and the anticipation was was so much fun. The whole family together, the music playing, the smells of food, the Christmas specials 24/7, me and my cousins running around shaking with excitement from the impending visit from Santa...
I don't understand all of the reasons against perpetuating the Santa experience. You want to show your kids it's you buying them shit because you love them? What? You should be showing them you love them year-round, why is the burden suddenly on Christmas? And the lie itself, are you expecting emotional scarring and permanent distrust from your child? Really? The day I found out, I was disappointed for an instant, but I was mature enough at that point to realize that it meant much more. My parents were behind it all, going through all that effort to make the holidays that much more special. It was such a powerful, beautiful realization that truly moved me, and that I'll be thankful to them for the rest of my life. It's also a rite of passage into adulthood in many ways. I learned to think for myself, and that the world isn't what it seems. It's a very sobering experience for a growing child that will really give you perspective. My kids will definitely believe in Santa.
I'll just say that some of my most memorable childhood memories involved Santa, and the excitement of the weeks leading up to Christmas eve and day with my brother and I, cousins, family, is simply unmatched. I'm not scarred. I don't hate my parents. What kind of messed up kid would be? For being lied to about Santa? They were wonderful beautiful times, and the anticipation was was so much fun. The whole family together, the music playing, the smells of food, the Christmas specials 24/7, me and my cousins running around shaking with excitement from the impending visit from Santa...
I don't understand all of the reasons against perpetuating the Santa experience. You want to show your kids it's you buying them shit because you love them? What? You should be showing them you love them year-round, why is the burden suddenly on Christmas? And the lie itself, are you expecting emotional scarring and permanent distrust from your child? Really? The day I found out, I was disappointed for an instant, but I was mature enough at that point to realize that it meant much more. My parents were behind it all, going through all that effort to make the holidays that much more special. It was such a powerful, beautiful realization that truly moved me, and that I'll be thankful to them for the rest of my life. It's also a rite of passage into adulthood in many ways. I learned to think for myself, and that the world isn't what it seems. It's a very sobering experience for a growing child that will really give you perspective. My kids will definitely believe in Santa.
Kitsunebaby
Member
My mom tried to keep up the charade, but she didn't try all that hard. When I realized that Santa had my mom's handwriting and that he used the same wrapping paper the illusion was over.
I wouldn't make it a point to tell them it's fake, just let them realize it naturally.
I wouldn't make it a point to tell them it's fake, just let them realize it naturally.
IHaveCandy
Banned
So knowing your parents love you and want you to be happy and are willing to spend a lot of hard earned money and time to get you what you want is supposed to be some sort of bummer?
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
It's important for your kids to believe in Santa, so that when they find out he's not real they learn not to believe everything they're told.
Marty Chinn
Member
So if your kid is playing with some friends at the age of 5 and he's pretending to be a magical wizard and they're off on an adventure, you'd say stop that shit, it ain't real? That's not imagination?
dragonelite
Member
If i had kids i would keep it real for as long as possible i want those presents too you know 
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
Can't you achieve the same effect by telling your kid he/she wasn't an accident?
This will likey be my response, except I'd probably throw several packs of condoms towards them and tell them I'm not going pay for and help raise some goddamn teen birthed bastard child because my daughter thinks that she was "in love" and had to express herself physcially because some teen punk asswipe said whatever bullshit that came to his mind so he could get into her pants.
I get what youre saying but lets stop using this particular example.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_the_Flat_Earth
Children aren't capable of grasping a lot of abstract concepts before a certain age including the golden rule.
IHaveCandy
Banned
You sound like you are in the position that Santa Claus is the default that you should do unless you can prove it is a terrible and harmful lie. And if it is not harmful, then you should tell them Santa Claus is real.
I'm starting from the position of whether or not I should tell them this lie, with no default starting point. To me, it seems that Santa Claus is just a dumb lie to get kids excited when the truth would get them excited as well without the lies or crappy moral teachings.
Let's be honest, we don't learn the concept of hard earned money until we get a job.
a secret-boss
Banned
did u just watch American Horror Story and Ian Mcshane's portrayal of crazy Santa Claus lol
Im not sure how people are brought up but my parents always told me that being nice (doing things, helping them, etc) increases my chances to get something and thats a valuable life lesson thats still true as an adult.
Are you trying to make a joke or what?
IHaveCandy
Banned
No. That is real imagination. He is pretending. He is putting himself in another experience that he knows is not real. If my kid made up the idea of Santa Claus on his own and pretended it was real, then he would be using his imagination. How is this hard to understand? Believing in a lie isn't using your imagination.
SCULLIBUNDO
Banned
That depends. Are you laughing?
IHaveCandy
Banned
And like I said, rewards and punishments have their place. I'm not against them being used at all. I'm saying that making it a cut-to-the-chase negotiation of "be good and you get this" is bad moral teachings.
Necromanti
Member
I thought this thread was about not lying to your kids.
Hydranockz
Member
Why is OP avoiding my first post?
Santa isn't a person. When kids realise Santa isn't real, they really just realise he isn't a real person. Funny how the happiness, love and kindness (not just from friends and family) can continue to exist without Santa, isn't it? The idea of Santa is to become someone your kid doesn't know. They can't possibly know them. They get a gift from this stranger and they appreciate it as that, not as a gift from parent to child. When the child discovers the truth, there is a second truth attached to it. The truth is that whoever becomes Santa just wants to make children happy. It's selfless because the gratefulness isn't immediately reciprocated to the parents (not until later years). You want your kids to grow up nowing that it's good to just make someone happy for their sake of being happy as opposed to making them happy so they love you.
Santa isn't a person. When kids realise Santa isn't real, they really just realise he isn't a real person. Funny how the happiness, love and kindness (not just from friends and family) can continue to exist without Santa, isn't it? The idea of Santa is to become someone your kid doesn't know. They can't possibly know them. They get a gift from this stranger and they appreciate it as that, not as a gift from parent to child. When the child discovers the truth, there is a second truth attached to it. The truth is that whoever becomes Santa just wants to make children happy. It's selfless because the gratefulness isn't immediately reciprocated to the parents (not until later years). You want your kids to grow up nowing that it's good to just make someone happy for their sake of being happy as opposed to making them happy so they love you.
Believing in Santa was one of the greatest experiences for me (as a kid). It was amazing to believe in all that shit, seemed magical to me. Let kids be kids, because they'll spend most of their lives as a frustrated or depressed adult (granted, not every adult is depressed but compared to childhood, it is depressing imo)
Until what age do they believe usually? Overhere, the school actually make sure kids will find out. When they are around 7-8 they still celebrate the dutch version of santa at schools, but the kids will have to write a poem in the name of santa, make something and buy some present for a classmate.
What? That makes no sense, Santa and the Tooth Fairy and Unicorns aren't real and therefore any visualisation or extension of their stories by kids are 100% imagination.
Do you even know what imagination means?
I think that it is rather fucking pathetic that kids can not be kids these days because adults are too fucked in the head to allow themselves to believe in anything and insist on forcing their head trips on other people.
Life is shit, reality is shit but you don't have to shit on those who are in no hurry to join you there.
Life is shit, reality is shit but you don't have to shit on those who are in no hurry to join you there.
In North America most kids stop believing in Santa between Grades 1 and 3 (5-8 years old). Some before, some after.
A lot of the people posting on GAF (including the OP in this thread) are 18-25 years old. Most are still in school, unmarried, childless, etc. What they are saying now won't necessarily reflect how they will behave when they have kids at some point in the future. I wouldn't weep for these hypothetical future kids. I said a lot of stuff when I was in my early 20s that I have sense changed my mind on.
Little kids have imagination and believe all sorts of crazy things, even if you don't encourage them. It is part of playing and learning. As they get older, they get more grounded. This is happened since people existed. There's no real difference between pretending that Santa is real and pretending that their bed is a time machine when they are little.
Yeah, Santa didn't work like that in the snap household.
I mean, if your children are brats then they'll not behave even with the best santa story. If your children are brought up in a good way, you'll not need to use santa left and right but have him as a joker in case you really need them to behave a certain way. There's really no harm done.
Tooth fairy is also a great thing. Makes them less afraid of losing a tooth, for example. I lost one two years ago by accident and had I still believed in the tooth fairy, my life would have been better. Though knowing my jaw won't just grow a new one was probably the main reason why it was shitty.
IHaveCandy
Banned
I'm not avoiding your post. You didn't really say anything that needed to be responded to. It doesn't have much to do with lying to your kids about Santa. It's just a possible ideology they might take after discovering he isn't real. And there's no reason to think people who would never have been told about Santa couldn't come to the same conclusion.
PeakPointMatrix
Member
I see what you're saying, but it's my opinion that the excitement generated from a child's naivety combined with them believing in the world of the north pole, reindeers, milk and cookies, Santa's worldwide trip, etc, vs. "I bought you those gifts, love you" is much higher. I don't need Christmas and gift giving for my kids to know I love them.
Marty Chinn
Member
So your kid's friend tells him the wonders of Santa, and your kid starts imagining all sorts of things from this seed that was planted. He is then using his imagination wondering about the legend of Santa, then you'd accept their belief in Santa or would you tell them that it's a lie? By your own definition, he's using his imagination at this point.
Oh man, pretending that Santa Claus is real for one time a year must be so hard and soul crushing. I have no idea how you do it. Frankly, you should march into your class room one day and just tell those little shits that he isn't real and their parents are DISGUSTING LIARS. And that they're probably adopted.
Then them thinking a magical fat man who fulfills all their most-wanted gifts once a year and KNOWS if they've been bad or good, keeping them on a good moral path, really isn't that big of a deal.
IHaveCandy
Banned
Did you read what I said? I said that they are lies being believed, not that they are real. If I tell you that I've been to Japan, when I really haven't, and you believe me, is that you using your imagination? No, it's just you taking my word to be true.
José Mourinho
cocknose
THEY DON'T GET IT!
Try explaining to a 4 year old that mummy and daddy work 40+ hour weeks and save money all year round, to then trek round shops for hours battling to get them all these sweet gifts that they wanted because they love you so much. You'll get a blank stare back. Because the child doesn't understand the 40+ hour week. The child doesn't understand what it is to walk round shops for hours. The child doesn't know what it is to save money.
They know their parents love them. They don't need a Santaless Christmas to understand that. It would also be the most boring shit in the world.
And telling kids they should behave for a large payoff at the end of the year is not going to bring up amoral children like you seem to think.
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