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[makingmusic476]

Ed is fucking awesome.

For a show similar to Bebop, check out Outlaw Star. Though the overall plot isn't as strong and the end is pretty weak.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Also set a very high watermark for English dubs.



Du...rarara?

that and Eden of the East were okay but the plots were too convoluted and senseless for me to connect with them

 

[cdyhybrid]

Yo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlN7-eNsbCk

Sure is dusty in here...

 

[Ezalc]

Good but not FLCL good.

You're right, it's better than FLCL. Just Tank! itself is better than anything FLCL offers.

 

[squidyj]

goddamn...

and that's just one moment of several that hits hard in that show

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoL2RzCGwms

 

[Dynamite Ringo Matsuri]

"You're gonna carry that weight."

Best fuckin ending ever. Bebop hits me like a pile of bricks every time I see it, and its power never diminished in the 10 years since I've seen it. I would pay cash money for a blu ray collection.

OP should check out Steins;Gate

Kids is okay. It blew its load at around episode 7(?) with an amazing climax and then it just turned into love triangle bromantic nonsense and ended with a whimper

 

[noobasuar]

Yup, I love cowboy bebop and samurai champloo and consider to be some of the best t.v. shows that I have ever seen. I wish more shows like these existed.

I remember being pretty let down by the cowboy bebop movie though but I cant really remember to much of it since I haven't seen it in years.

I also can't wait to check out kids on the slope.

 

[The Return of]

Watch ghost in the shell the tv show. Don't bother with the movie

 

[Risette]

Du...rarara?

Durarara is atrocious. It may have the same original writer and anime staff, but it is just awful.

It's like Baccano if Baccano did everything that made it good wrong. Tries to juggle the interlocking stories and falls flat on its face, instead of expertly tying everything together like Baccano did. One of the most terribly edited and paced anime shows you could get next to a Tomino show.

Watch ghost in the shell the tv show. Don't bother with the movie

It's the other way around. The Mamoru Oshii directed movies are the only worthwhile things in the franchise.

 

[The Return of]

Durarara is atrocious. It may have the same original writer and anime staff, but it is just awful.

It's like Baccano if Baccano did everything that made it good wrong. Tries to juggle the interlocking stories and falls flat on its face, instead of expertly tying everything together like Baccano did. One of the most terribly edited and paced anime shows you could get next to a Tomino show.

It's the other way around. The Mamoru Oshii directed movies are the only worthwhile things in the franchise.

No, they are okay at best. Great animation and music, but everything is subpar or just terrible. Not sure how you criticize Durarara story then let Mamoru Ohsii GitS movies get a pass in the same post.

 

[Mobius 1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eoL2RzCGwms

First time through I wept for this. It's so powerfully poignant.

 

[Jacob]

Durarara is atrocious. It may have the same original writer and anime staff, but it is just awful.

It's like Baccano if Baccano did everything that made it good wrong. Tries to juggle the interlocking stories and falls flat on its face, instead of expertly tying everything together like Baccano did. One of the most terribly edited and paced anime shows you could get next to a Tomino show.

I haven't gotten around to watching Durarara yet but I don't see how Baccano's intercutting stories were "expertly" constructed. It worked decently enough, but the rapid-fire time cuts were more confusing than anything else. I have no problem with a narrative construction that plays around with time but the good examples of this both in anime (example: Haruhi Suzumiya's broadcast order) and other media (example: Pulp Fiction) don't cut to a different time every 60-90 seconds. Also, the first episode of Baccano is a huge chore to sit through and the last three (OVA) episodes are one of the most pointless anticlimaxes I've ever seen.

It's the other way around. The Mamoru Oshii directed movies are the only worthwhile things in the franchise.

Too bad Oshii hasn't directed a good movie since Beautiful Dreamer. Jin-Roh was good but it took Okiura reigning in Oshii's more grating tendencies to make that movie anything but a steaming pile of crap.

Spoiler

See, I can post hyperbole too!

 

[Dynamite Ringo Matsuri]

Of course I love this show.

My favorite moment of the whole show:

Spoiler

When it's very aware that Spike is going to go on a suicide mission. He starts telling Faye about himself and she is like shut up, don't tell me, you don't get to say nothing about yourself the whole time I know you and now you're leaving you want to tell me. Spike was such an enigma in the show and I though this part was excellent. Reminds me of a famous quote from a novel "Don't ever tell anybody anything. If you do, you start missing everybody".

Very good scene, I agree. I also loved Spike's story about the cats in response to Jet's story about Kiliminajro. "I always hated that story." The episodes Speak like a Child, Hard luck Woman, RFB part one and two were just like a constant barrage of emotional blows. Your quote is from Catcher in the Rye btw

 

[ThatObviousUser]

that and Eden of the East were okay but the plots were too convoluted and senseless for me to connect with them

DRRR's plot is actually very straightforward, it just takes forever to get going. Which is both a pro and a con.

 

[The Return of]

It's a great show. But cut out Ed and it would be 10 times better because he almost ruins the fucking show. Samurai Champloo is better.

Samurai Champloo is just a lot more enjoyable for me when I watch it again. I used to prefer Cowboy Bebop till I basically watched both series back to back.

 

[Risette]

I haven't gotten around to watching Durarara yet but I don't see how Baccano's intercutting stories were "expertly" constructed. It worked, basically, but the rapid-fire time cuts were more confusing than anything else. I have no problem with a narrative construction that plays around with time but the good examples of this both in anime (Haruhi Suzumiya's broadcast order) and other media (Pulp Fiction) don't cut to a different time every 60-90 seconds.

Because it all comes together to one focal point -- the train.

Maybe you will understand how good it actually is when you get around to watching Durarara and realize how bad a similar narrative type can be when it goes wrong. This is actually what happened with me -- I always liked Baccano, but I didn't really thing it was that great. Then I watched Durarara and realized all the things Baccano did right.

Too bad Oshii hasn't directed a good movie since Beautiful Dreamer. Jin-Roh was good but it took Okiura reigning in Oshii's more grating tendencies to make that movie anything but a steaming pile of crap.

Spoiler

See, I can post hyperbole too!

You can post hyperbole, but I don't get what hyperbole has to do with anything here because nothing I said was hyperbole. SAC is not very good and is quite long (52 episodes for both seasons), so I don't find it worth bothering with.

Beautiful Dreamer is very good. I don't see how you could like Beautiful Dreamer and not the rest of his movies though.

No, they are okay at best. Great animation and music, but everything is subpar or just terrible. Not sure how you criticize Durarara story then let Mamoru Ohsii GitS movies get a pass in the same post.

I didn't criticize the story specifically, I criticized the editing and pacing.

also, huh

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

No, they are okay at best. Great animation and music, but everything is subpar or just terrible. Not sure how you criticize Durarara story then let Mamoru Ohsii GitS movies get a pass in the same post.

What? The two things are nothing alike.

I haven't gotten around to watching Durarara yet but I don't see how Baccano's intercutting stories were "expertly" constructed. It worked decently enough, but the rapid-fire time cuts were more confusing than anything else. I have no problem with a narrative construction that plays around with time but the good examples of this both in anime (example: Haruhi Suzumiya's broadcast order) and other media (example: Pulp Fiction) don't cut to a different time every 60-90 seconds. Also, the first episode of Baccano is huge chore to sit through and the last three (OVA) episodes are one of the most pointless anticlimaxes I've ever seen.

I can see how the first episode of Baccano would be confusing on a first watch - it reminds me of the opening of Magnolia in that regard - but after the context has been established there I don't think the cuts between the various times and locations are particularly jarring, confusing, or overly quick. Having the journey of the Flying Pussyfoot as a focal point helped a lot in keeping things organized.

Too bad Oshii hasn't directed a good movie since Beautiful Dreamer. Jin-Roh was good but it took Okiura reigning in Oshii's more grating tendencies to make that movie anything but a steaming pile of crap.

Okiura directing Jin-Roh certainly helped that movie, but I don't think Oshii lost it until after he made Ghost in the Shell.

 

[Jacob]

Because it all comes together to one focal point -- the train.

Maybe you will understand how good it actually is when you get around to watching Durarara and realize how bad a similar narrative type can be when it goes wrong. This is actually what happened with me -- I always liked Baccano, but I didn't really thing it was that great. Then I watched Durarara and realized all the things Baccano did right.

I couldn't say, but if I have an epiphany regarding Baccano when I watch Durarara, I'll do my best to remember to let you know.

You can post hyperbole, but I don't get what hyperbole has to do with anything here because nothing I said was hyperbole. SAC is not very good and is quite long (52 episodes for both seasons), so I don't find it worth bothering with.

Beautiful Dreamer is very good. I don't see how you could like Beautiful Dreamer and not the rest of his movies though.

I've thought about it a fair bit myself when I was going on an Oshii binge a few months ago and I think it comes down to characterization. Oshii was working with solid and entertaining characters in Beautiful Dreamer from the Urusei Yatsura manga/TV series. Even though he went off in his own direction with the story (in a good way, I think) I felt more of a connection to the characters in that film than any of his subsequent ones. I'm not even a fan of the UY series outside Beautiful Dreamer. There was also more of a sense of things happening, despite the relaxed pace. GITS, while it is fucking gorgeous to look at, especially in the fight scenes, has to struggle and crawl story-wise to get to those parts.

I felt similarly about Jin-Roh. It has a lot of Oshii trademarks but I felt there was more of an emphasis on character development and emotion, especially during the second act. From what I can tell reading interviews with Oshii a lot of that came from Okiura making changes to the original script.

I can see how the first episode of Baccano would be confusing on a first watch - it reminds me of the opening of Magnolia in that regard - but after the context has been established there I don't think the cuts between the various times and locations are particularly jarring, confusing, or overly quick. Having the journey of the Flying Pussyfoot as a focal point helped a lot in keeping things organized.

I liked Baccano pretty well the first time I watched it, but the first episode was a slog and almost made me give up on the show because I was so bored by it. I'm glad I continued watching because the show is an enjoyable experience, but I don't think that the time cuts add very much to the story, at least not compared to other works that have done it much better. And every time I start to rewatch the show that first episode is still a pain.

Okiura directing Jin-Roh certainly helped that movie, but I don't think Oshii lost it until after he made Ghost in the Shell.

I can totally see why people like GITS (and Patlabor, and whatever else). Oshii has continued to be very good at certain things, especially visually and in terms of worldbuilding. I just don't think he's an especially good storyteller, which is why my favorite Oshii movies are those where he had help in that department.

 

[The Return of]

I didn't criticize the story specifically, I criticized the editing and pacing.

also, huh

You thought GitS movie story was good? It was really wasn't. It tries to take on way too much for the runtime it is giving. That's why the show is so much better, much more exposure to it. Never knew people actually thought the movies had a well done story or anything, always saw it praised for the animation. The connection between the two is that you talked about Durarara trying to juggle something and failing and GitS movie basically does the exact same thing... but just not interconnected storylines. It tries too much for the time that it is giving. Not that hard to connect the two.

 

[RedSwirl]

My lesser-known suggestion to the OP would be Michiko to Hatchin. It was produced by Watanabe and I think worked on by some more of the same staff (not sure). It's sort of Cowboy Bebop without the Y Chromosome.

The story has a similar crime drama angle, but with an almost all-female cast and in a fictional country resembling contemporary Brazil. There's not as much action after the first half of the series and it really is more of a drama, but I thought the writing and character development were similarly compelling. The soundtrack by Kassin is excellent too.

Sadly, it only just recently got picked up for English language distribution, and an official western Blu-Ray release won't happen until at least next year. The only way to get it right now is through fansubs.

Yeah I love Bebop but was pretty meh on Champloo as the series wore on. (*great* first episode though) I think some of it was that Champloo seemed to riff on some pretty specific Japanese references while Bebop's references I recognized (Aliens, Westerns, 90210! etc.) The other was that Bebop was rock solid consistent throughout where Champloo wasn't.

I think that's a big part of why Bebop has been so popular internationally -- it's a very western show. From what I understand, Watanabe didn't even make it like that on purpose.

Yo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlN7-eNsbCk

Well shit. Looks like that's the episode I'm gonna put in tonight.

 

[Risette]

I've thought about it a fair bit myself when I was going on an Oshii binge a few months ago and I think it comes down to characterization. Oshii was working with solid and entertaining characters in Beautiful Dreamer from the Urusei Yatsura manga/TV series. Even though he went off in his own direction with the story (in a good way, I think) I felt more of a connection to the characters in that film than any of his subsequent ones. I'm not even a fan of the UY series outside Beautiful Dreamer. There was also more of a sense of things happening, despite the relaxed pace. GITS, while it is fucking gorgeous to look at, especially in the fight scenes, has to struggle and crawl story-wise to get to those parts.

I watched Beautiful Dreamer without prior experience in the UY franchise so I didn't feel that way, I guess. Although despite going in his own Oshii-like direction, it is very lighthearted in characterization compared to the rest of his movies.

I find the buddy cop dynamic of Batou and Togusa in Innocence to be Oshii's greatest character work though.

I felt similarly about Jin-Roh. It has a lot of Oshii trademarks but I felt there was more of an emphasis on character development and emotion, especially during the second act. From what I can tell reading interviews with Oshii a lot of that came from Okiura making changes to the original script.

I don't know. Jin-Roh's character development feels fleshed out to such a degree in such a strange way. It's almost like they built up these characters only

Spoiler

to make the ending stretch, which feels very bleak in an Oshii-like fashion, more effective. It doesn't just rely on your emotions for the character in the film, it makes you feel legitimately deceived and shocked as the viewer.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

I find the buddy cop dynamic of Batou and Togusa in Innocence to be Oshii's greatest character work though.

I'm impressed you can find a buddy cop dynamic amidst the stilted psychobabble dialog the comprises the entire film.
bleh. I wanted him to make another GitS movie so bad and then he made Innocence and now I'm like "yeah no thanks, I'm good"

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

I liked Baccano pretty well the first time I watched it, but the first episode was a slog and almost made me give up on the show because I was so bored by it. I'm glad I continued watching because the show is an enjoyable experience, but I don't think that the time cuts add very much to the story, at least not compared to other works that have done it much better. And every time I start to rewatch the show that first episode is still a pain.

I think the splicing together of the various time frames does work because of smart pacing (in the TV run, the OVA episodes obviously stand apart). The final TV episode is a satisfying climax for all the main characters simultaneously, and I think a pure chronological ordering wouldn't have made for as strong an emotional arc.

I can totally see why people like GITS (and Patlabor, and whatever else). Oshii has continued to be very good at certain things, especially visually and in terms of worldbuilding. I just don't think he's an especially good storyteller, which is why my favorite Oshii movies are those where he had help in that department.

Oshii is more concerned about mood and broad ideas than individualized characterization and traditional narratives. Whether someone enjoys that or not comes down a lot to personal taste. I love works with strong atmosphere, and Oshii's animated films that I've seen succeed in that department. Angel's Egg is probably my favorite.

 

[Risette]

I'm impressed you can find a buddy cop dynamic amidst the stilted psychobabble dialog the comprises the entire film.
bleh. I wanted him to make another GitS movie so bad and then he made Innocence and now I'm like "yeah no thanks, I'm good"

The quotes and philosophical references really aren't that bad.

 

[squidyj]

Yeah I love Bebop but was pretty meh on Champloo as the series wore on. (*great* first episode though) I think some of it was that Champloo seemed to riff on some pretty specific Japanese references while Bebop's references I recognized (Aliens, Westerns, 90210! etc.) The other was that Bebop was rock solid consistent throughout where Champloo wasn't.

Champloo was good but I never became as invested in the characters as I did in bebop and the atmosphere never quite worked for me, Whereas Bebop's all things western pot-luck style (jazz, spaghetti westerns, noir, etc) merged into an appealing aesthetic that felt natural, I could never get the hiphop samurai blending to feel anything other than zany which really drew away from any emotional connection I had with the series.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

The quotes and philosophical references really aren't that bad.

Really? To me the entire film is the director going "ok i'm going to talk about something right here" and interjects something he read one time that impressed him. This movie is fan service for him, director service if you will.

 

[Jacob]

I watched Beautiful Dreamer without prior experience in the UY franchise so I didn't feel that way, I guess. Although despite going in his own Oshii-like direction, it is very lighthearted in characterization compared to the rest of his movies.

I find the buddy cop dynamic of Batou and Togusa in Innocence to be Oshii's greatest character work though.

I certainly appreciated that more than I did the characterization in the original GITS, though I don't think I would call it his best. I should watch Innocence again though. I didn't mind the lightheartedness of Beautiful Dreamer, but you're probably right that that was influenced by watching it after being introduced to the UY TV series. Compared to the TV series Beautiful Dreamer feels quite grave in parts.

I don't know. Jin-Roh's character development feels fleshed out to such a degree in such a strange way. It's almost like they built up these characters only

Spoiler

to make the ending stretch, which feels very bleak in an Oshii-like fashion, more effective. It doesn't just rely on your emotions for the character in the film, it makes you feel legitimately deceived and shocked as the viewer.

You make a good point, but I don't think the ending of Jin-Roh, which is very powerful, would have worked as well without having gotten to know Fuse and Kei as well.

Spoiler

Without the tentative romance between the two of them there would have been less conflict for the characters in the ending and, I think, less emotional involvement from the audience. I find the second act introspection of Jin-Roh far more interesting than some of Oshii's other works because it feels more grounded and relevant to the characters.

Anyway, I'm not trying to shit on Oshii because I do think he is talented and certainly Beautiful Dreamer and Jin-Roh would not be the movies they are without his involvement.

I think the splicing together of the various time frames does work because of smart pacing (in the TV run, the OVA episodes obviously stand apart). The final TV episode is a satisfying climax for all the main characters simultaneously, and I think a pure chronological ordering wouldn't have made for as strong an emotional arc.

It's been a while since I've watched it, but my main issue with Baccano is the number and rapidity of the cuts. As I mentioned before I'm not opposed to non-chronological stories, but I didn't think that Baccano's handling of it was particularly good. It didn't ruin the show for me, but it did decrease my enjoyment of it.

Oshii is more concerned about mood and broad ideas than individualized characterization and traditional narratives. Whether someone enjoys that or not comes down a lot to personal taste. I love works with strong atmosphere, and Oshii's animated films that I've seen succeed in that department. Angel's Egg is probably my favorite.

I agree that this largely comes down to taste. Oshii is very good at the things that are important to him, clearly, and he's a master of atmosphere. I can't get through Angel's Egg though.

 

[Dead]

Watch Wolf's Rain.

Its by the writer/co-creator of Cowboy Bebop, Keiko Nobumoto, and the animation and design staff is the closest to Bebop of any other existing anime work.

Samurai Champloo is an obvious choice to watch as well as it's Watanabe's next work, with a different writer.

Though not as good, Darker than Black shares the episodic nature of Cowboy Bebop, and is overall a good watch, again shares many similar design staff from Bebop, and the director was one of the key unit directors/storyboarders on both Bebop TV and the movie.

 

[The Return of]

Really? To me the entire film is the director going "ok i'm going to talk about something right here" and interjects something he read one time that impressed him. This movie is fan service for him, director service if you will.

lol, pretty much. I can at least see the appeal of the first ghost of the shell movie, but the 2nd is really really really pushing it.

Watch Wolf's Rain.

Its by the writer/co-creator of Cowboy Bebop, Keiko Nobumoto, and the animation and design staff is the closest to Bebop of any other existing anime work.

eh....The characters in that show are so bland though..I was pretty mixed on that show.

 

[ToyMachine228]

The best anime ever made, and a great show all around. Champloo is the only other anime I've ever watched. I thought Champloo was decent, but no where near as good as Bebop.

 

[sleepykyo]

Saw that the last Cowboy Bebop thread was almost 3 years old, so I hope that it's ok to start a new one! Anyway I started watching a few of the episodes, but before I knew it I watched all 26 episodes and the movie within a week. Safe to say this is probably one of my favorite animated shows of all time, anime or not.

Off the top of my head episodes that I really enjoyed were The Real Folk Blues, Cowboy Funk, Pierrot le Fou, Mushroom Samba, Ballad of the Fallen Angels, Toys in the Attic, and Speak Like a Child. In general though, the show was consistently excellent with only a few episodes that I really didn't care for. (Boogie Woogie Feng Shui and Sympathy for the Devil mostly)

I could rave on and on about what I love about this show such as the superb animation and music, but I think what really brought it all together was the show's incredible cast where I think there wasn't a single character that I thought the show would be better off without. (although I didn't really care for Vicious, it was mostly his impact on Spike that gave him importance in my opinion)



For me it was seeing these character's past and watching them grow and change throughout the series that really kept me hooked, and by the end I was getting misty eyed seeing their stories all come to a close. Even right now I'm still thinking about the show's core themes such as loneliness and letting the past go, and for me in general something has to be very thought provoking if I'm still thinking about it several days later. This is especially surprising that this is coming from an anime, and from my experience I never really cared for the medium. (too many cliches, lack of maturity, two dimensional characters)

Overall I was heavily impressed by this show and can now easily see why it is so revered by many. Is there any other anime out there that is on par with this series (mostly in terms of character, level of maturity, etc.) that I should check out? (maybe something recent/modern?)

No. Cowboy Bebop is truly exceptional.

At this point settle for:
Ghost in the Shell and the TV series
Samurai Champloo
and Studio Ghibli films

 

[Arment]

Someone recommended Black Lagoon to me as a show similar to Bebop/Champloo.

I'm almost done watching it and have nothing but praise. The english dub is one of the best I've heard.

 

[SatelliteOfLove]

I heard on AnimeGAF that he's making 2 new shows in the coming years.

Good. Very good. CB is easily one of the best TV series ever made. He deserved more opportunity.

 

[Zyrusticae]

My lesser-known suggestion to the OP would be Michiko to Hatchin. It was produced by Watanabe and I think worked on by some more of the same staff (not sure). It's sort of Cowboy Bebop without the Y Chromosome.

The story has a similar crime drama angle, but with an almost all-female cast and in a fictional country resembling contemporary Brazil. There's not as much action after the first half of the series and it really is more of a drama, but I thought the writing and character development were similarly compelling. The soundtrack by Kassin is excellent too.

Sadly, it only just recently got picked up for English language distribution, and an official western Blu-Ray release won't happen until at least next year. The only way to get it right now is through fansubs.

I'll second this. Michiko e Hatchin is a pretty entertaining ride. It really runs with the setting, too. How many anime can you even find set in South America?

 

[Branduil]

Good. Very good. CB is easily one of the best TV series ever made. He deserved more opportunity.

I don't think his anime hiatus was because of a lack of opportunity.

 

[Vincent Alexander]

Not just one of the greatest anime shows ever. One of the greatest televsion shows of all time.

 

[Nappuccino]

I need this show on bluray regardless how much better it looks.

Hell, put the originals and the remix versions on the same discs.

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

I need this show on bluray regardless how much better it looks.

Hell, put the originals and the remix versions on the same discs.

The Bluray set is releasing on the 21st in Japan. I'm sure some company will make sure it gets released elsewhere eventually.

 

[hateradio]

I personally hated Boccano. Maybe it was because of the dub, I couldn't stand the NY-Italian-mob accent.

The Bluray set is releasing on the 21st in Japan. I'm sure some company will make sure it gets released elsewhere eventually.

We'll probably see it in the US next year if it's licensed by the same group. I hope.

It will be glorious. ಥ‿ಥ

 

[XANDER CAGE]

I'm here to echo Pizzaroll's distaste for Durarara. While I like some of the characters and there are some good scenes, it's a jumbled mess of a show compared to Baccano, which is one of the few gimmicky ~it's a tweest~ things I've seen in any medium that delivers on pretty much everything it lays out in its first episode.

Stand Alone Complex is a good show, in my opinion, but it's way more guilty of psychobabble than the Oshii adaptations. I don't really understand why that criticism gets leveled against the film when it's about philosophy. In the show it's far more jarring because it has a little bit more of a basic police-procedural plot with psychological thriller elements.

Oh, and Cowboy Bebop is wonderful. The characters are so well established that its dramatic shifts in tone feel natural and interesting as opposed to clunky or forced. I'd love to see a proper Blu-Ray transfer one day.

 

[Branduil]

Oh, and Cowboy Bebop is wonderful. The characters are so well established that its dramatic shifts in tone feel natural and interesting as opposed to clunky or forced. I'd love to see a proper Blu-Ray transfer one day.

Look above you.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Stand Alone Complex is a good show, in my opinion, but it's way more guilty of psychobabble than the Oshii adaptations. I don't really understand why that criticism gets leveled against the film when it's about philosophy. In the show it's far more jarring because it has a little bit more of a basic police-procedural plot with psychological thriller elements.

waaat. I don't see how that's possible. Maybe you think SAC goes overboard with the JD Salinger stuff but other than that the only thing the characters talk about is what's going on in the story. They don't go off the rails into lets quote a thing that barely applies to this situation land.

 

[Sallokin]

Love Cowboy Bebop.

I'd also recommend "Kino's Journey". A traveler visiting different countries on her motorrad, learning their culture and values, never staying for more than 3 days. Very mature and philosophical.

I love, love, love Kino's Journey. I can't recommend this one enough. I think there are enough suggestions in this thread to keep the OP occupied for a while. I just grabbed the blu ray box set for Lain. One of my favorites as well.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

waaat. I don't see how that's possible. Maybe you think SAC goes overboard with the JD Salinger stuff but other than that the only thing the characters talk about is what's going on in the story. They don't go off the rails into lets quote a thing that barely applies to this situation land.

Because dwelling on philosophy is entirely appropriate in the film, where the main character is a human who is almost a machine and the villain is a machine who is almost human. The entire plot revolves around Kusanagi wallowing in philosophical confusion, so it's only natural that philosophy would be a big part of the script.

I don't think SAC goes overboard, it just has more psychoanalysis for the sake of psychoanalysis. Half of the time in SAC the quotes and whatnot pop up when the Major or another character is trying to explain somebody else's behavior. This is most egregious in scenes in the control room where all the characters are doing research, and Ishikawa or somebody else will start rattling off something that applies to the villain of the week.

I really enjoy both Oshii's films and the TV series (and the manga, actually, which is way goofier) but for entirely different reasons.

 

[AlphaDragoon]

It's the other way around. The Mamoru Oshii directed movies are the only worthwhile things in the franchise.

Fuck that. Stand Alone Complex S1 and S2 are the only Ghost in the Shell that matters. Shirow's version is garbage and the movies are bleh.

 

[Fjordson]

I love this damn show so much. First anime I ever saw and still my favourite. It's almost like a sci-fi Western with a nice dose of film noir. The main cast is obviously great, but everything surrounding them is also part of what makes the show so memorable. Making them bounty hunters with a ship is brilliant since it lets them move around the galaxy and they end up showing off a bunch of different cities and locations that help keep each episode exciting. And of course the soundtrack is excellent (I don't own a ton of soundtracks, but I actually bought the complete boxed set for Bebop).

And it was cool how eclectic its influences were. Episodes named after Rolling Stones and Herbie Hancock songs, jazz music all over the place, plot and character elements from classic genre films like Django and Coffy, Spike being a follower of Bruce Lee's Jeet Kune Do. It all helped creative a very cool universe.

I could call a ton of episodes my favourite depending on what day of the week it is, but one I really like is Jupiter Jazz. Sort of cheating since it's a two parter, but it's great. I thought Gren was a pretty interesting character and I liked the flashbacks to Gren and Vicious fighting in the war together. Shed some light on Vicious as a character.

I need this show on bluray regardless how much better it looks.

Hell, put the originals and the remix versions on the same discs.

Man, I'd pay a ridiculous amount of money for a complete blu-ray set. I have them on DVD, but they don't look so hot these days.

I guess we may be waiting a bit since apparently Bandai doesn't deal with the U.S. anymore? So a sublicensor will have to come in and help bring it over here after the Japanese set has been out. Or some shit like that, I'm not totally familiar with regional anime business.

edit: I also prefer watching the English dub. It seems that most anime fans prefer to watch things in Japanese with subs, but I thought the English cast for this was top notch.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Because dwelling on philosophy is entirely appropriate in the film, where the main character is a human who is almost a machine and the villain is a machine who is almost human. The entire plot revolves around Kusanagi wallowing in philosophical confusion, so it's only natural that philosophy would be a big part of the script.

OK I'm basically only talking about Innocence. I'm completely fine with the philosophy stuff with Major and the Puppet Master in the first film because it was a relatively minor part of the dialog that adds to the story instead of monopolizing it the way it is in the second movie.

 

[XANDER CAGE]

Fuck that. Stand Alone Complex S1 and S2 are the only Ghost in the Shell that matters. Shirow's version is garbage and the movies are bleh.

Although keeping things on topic, I hope we can all agree the Cowboy Bebop manga tie-in is rubbish.

 

[HK-47]

Fuck that. Stand Alone Complex S1 and S2 are the only Ghost in the Shell that matters. Shirow's version is garbage and the movies are bleh.

Pretty much how I feel. GitS needs a long form medium to work. A movie run time doesnt cut it, especially when you feeling like spending long periods of time navel gazing. A TV show can do that and did most of it through the tachikomas and often tied that naval gazing back into the themes of the episode or the main storyline. Plus I also found the corporate and political manipulations of the first season and the military escalation and revolution plots in the 2nd season as interesting additions to the transhumanism themes. I think it was smart not to make transhumanism the main trust of either season but let it run in the background all the time.

 

[cdyhybrid]

The Bluray set is releasing on the 21st in Japan. I'm sure some company will make sure it gets released elsewhere eventually.

Oh my.

I am fucking in.