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[Cloudy]

Quite the opposite, if more people were carrying a gun it would mean more people capable of killing the shooter before this could take place.

Why weren't the elementary kids armed!

 

[dc89]

You can't say if it would have prevented an individual case but you can say it would reduce the risk going forward.

 

[7Th]

Prevented? No, the stuff that happened in China today/yesterday happened without a gun.

And nobody died.

 

[teruterubozu]

A question: are mentally ill people unable to acquire / store / use guns legally in the US? and if so, would it be too much of a polemic thing to ban gun access to them? I mean, we can all agree that giving a firearm to a mentally unstable person is a horrible idea, yes?

I don't know how it can be verified. A lot people with mental issues NEVER go to a doctor and get diagnosed. It's not like we carry around "I'm mentally stable" ID cards.

 

[Deleted member 81567]

Well the guy is clearly mentally ill and I bet we'll find out he bought his gun legally.

Why should a person who's sick in the head be allowed to purchase this?

At the very least we need mental evaluations before folks can buy guns

I'm so fucking angry right now.

 

[Htown]

Just straight up ban the fucking things.

Impossible.

 

[IHaveCandy]

You can't be serious. Why do you think military personnel carry guns rather than doing all their fighting with knives?

Why are you comparing military to elementary school kids? I think a lot of people here vastly underestimate the lethalness of knives.

 

[CharlieDigital]

from the main thread:

I'm reading that it was a Sig Sauer and Glock handgun.

Regulations listed are for rifles, which are typically easier to obtain than handguns.

 

[Draconian]

Why weren't the elementary kids armed!

You know, I'm not agreeing with his point, but you completely strawmanning his argument is just as annoying.

 

[Vyroxis]

Does everyone have black market contacts? I'm not from the US and I've have no idea where to even start if I wanted to get my hands on a gun. I appreciate that it's probably easier over there though.

Where I live I go to the local gun shop, pick the weapon I want, hand over the cash and walk out. No questions asked, no answers given. It works the same if I want a .22 for shooting rabbits, or the .50 calibre rifle for snickers as I put holes through trees.

Is it to easy? Yes. But that's how things are. Things do need to change, but a complete ban on all guns goes to far. Punishing the huge majority for the idiocy of the few is a bad way of going about things be it for guns or anything else.

 

[dc89]

Impossible.

How come? Genuine question.

 

[7Th]

I don't know how it can be verified. A lot people with mental issues NEVER go to a doctor and get diagnosed. It's not like we carry around "I'm mentally stable" ID cards.

Easy: if you want to own a gun, you need to prove by medical diagnosis that you are a mentally healthy person.

 

[Owensboro]

Every time something like this happens, I just think of all the hurdles the Japanese have to jump through to get guns.

To get a gun in Japan, first, you have to attend an all-day class and pass a written test, which are held only once per month. You also must take and pass a shooting range class. Then, head over to a hospital for a mental test and drug test (Japan is unusual in that potential gun owners must affirmatively prove their mental fitness), which you'll file with the police. Finally, pass a rigorous background check for any criminal record or association with criminal or extremist groups, and you will be the proud new owner of your shotgun or air rifle. Just don't forget to provide police with documentation on the specific location of the gun in your home, as well as the ammo, both of which must be locked and stored separately. And remember to have the police inspect the gun once per year and to re-take the class and exam every three years.

I mean, hell. My girlfried was able to get a gun legally in 8 minutes visiting her hometown in rural Georgia. I'm not saying make the things illegal, just make them take longer to buy than a Steak.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

Herp Derp ban guns derp.

Post something a bit better. At this point I'd be willing to go through a psych background check for my purchases if it prevents shit like this in the future.

People are willing to get groped, sniffed, checked, scanned, and searched prior to passively sitting on an airplane; but whether it's "ok" for the government to assess your mental well-being prior to giving you a deadly weapon is something that it's taken the murder of 30 people (this time) for you to acquiesce to.

 

[Dude Abides]

Why are you comparing military to elementary school kids? I think a lot of people here vastly underestimate the lethalness of knives.

I'm not comparing them. I'm pointing out how absolutely ridiculous your premise that a knife is as lethal as a gun is.

Oh well, you really proved your point with that picture. Case closed.

 

[Chumly]

We are already in the phase where a knife would have been just as bad? This world makes me sick sometimes and gun nuts who think there is nothing wrong with our laws around ownership and the sale of guns make me really sick.

 

[IHaveCandy]

You genuinely believe he could have killed over 20 persons with a knife? Seriously?

Yes.

 

[Ravensmash]

I saw a tweet which was implying that school children are sitting ducks...

What the fuck kind of society demands teachers to be armed or guns to surround students during the course of a day?

 

[7Th]

Yes.

The teachers could have stopped him if that was all he was carrying.

 

[MrKaepora]

Not an NRA representative, but...

EDIT: Despite my avatar I'm totally anti-gun. 0.o

Are you kidding me? Does he want 5 year old Callahans?

 

[FroJay]

Gun control is one part. The glorification of violence in American culture is the other. Both must be worked on to stop things like this.

Agreed, our media and entertainment has never been more violent. Movies, videogames......you name it and we have graphic violence at our fingertips. Understandably, on a video game forum people don't want to admit that violent video games tie in to violence, but these shootings are now too frequent and familiar.

Also, any idea how many of these guys were medicated in some form when they went on these killing sprees?

 

[volturnus]

Guns != self-defense.

How so? And what is the ideal solution, then? 1 bodyguard for each citizen?
10 teenagers were killed at once here in Rio this year, a city where there isn't a single gun store and citizens aren't allowed to carry a gun.
Gun control is not the way.

 

[Ramma2]

Yes.

Quote that please or resize original.

 

[Kinyou]

Yes.

So why didn't he use a knife?

 

[IHaveCandy]

I'm not comparing them. I'm pointing out how absolutely ridiculous your premise that a knife is as lethal as a gun is.

The difference is negligible when you are in a close quarters situation and your targets are primarily children. Do you know what kind of knives I'm talking about here?

 

[7Th]

The difference is negligible when you are in a close quarters situation and your targets are primarily children. Do you know what kind of knives I'm talking about here?

8 teachers jumped at him to protect the children. EIGHT ADULTS. He didn't just kill kids.

 

[Messypandas]

So why didn't he use a knife?

He obviously wanted to give the kids a sporting chance.

Ridiculous.

 

[Dude Abides]

The difference is negligible when you are in a close quarters situation and your targets are primarily children. Do you know what kind of knives I'm talking about here?

No it isn't. How long do you think it takes to stab someone to death vs. pulling a trigger. Maybe you've been playing too much God of War or watching too many action movies or something.

Unless you're talking about a knife that shoots bullets your "argument" remains ridiculous.

 

[IHaveCandy]

The teachers could have stopped him if that was all he was carrying.

do you really expect a couple of adults to stop a man with a 15" knife?

 

[Fantastical]

Are you going to try and disarm a man with a 15" knife meant to chop animals apart? I'm not arguing that knives are as efficiently lethal. The point is that they are extremely lethal. The point is this person could have still created this kind of tragedy. Gun banning wouldn't have certainly stopped it.

It would have DEFINITELY resulted in less people being killed. Are you serious? A knife would have killed as many people as guns? Children can at least run away from knives.

 

[Watch Da Birdie]

Plus, when a person is STABBED by a giant knife like that, everyone around would probably realize what was occurring and would get out of there as soon as possible...there's no way the killer could actually pick them all off with a knife like he could with a gun.

And with the Aurora shooting, how effective do you think the killer would have been if he stumbled around a dark movie-theater with a knife stabbing people?

 

[aronnov reborn]

I'll always be for the right to bear arms.

I have no problem with making it harder to get a gun though. hell add a psychological exam to it.

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

Yes.

Right, so today in China, 22 wounded in a school with a knife attack. Today in CT, ~30 killed due to a gun attack.

 

[NH Apache]

Well the guy is clearly mentally ill and I bet we'll find out he bought his gun legally.

Why should a person who's sick in the head be allowed to purchase this?

At the very least we need mental evaluations before folks can buy guns

All is known is that it was a .223 rifle.

The above quote picture is a semi-auto rifle with a bunch of add-ons that are usually purchased separately. I doubt that is the rifle that was used.

This is also a .223, a basic hunting rifle.

In the other thread, someone posted that a guy in China stabbed and killed 33 children today.

The guns laws have very little to do with it, IMO. Craziness finds a way.

 

[Devolution]

A question: are mentally ill people unable to acquire / store / use guns legally in the US? and if so, would it be too much of a polemic thing to ban gun access to them? I mean, we can all agree that giving a firearm to a mentally unstable person is a horrible idea, yes?

People don't know they're selling to the mentally unstable. If it was up to me you'd have to pass a psych eval to buy one and have to take one every year. Hell it's harder to get a fucking dog in some states than a god damn gun. This fucking country.

 

[gcubed]

all gun control does is concentrate the weapons in the hands of criminals.

 

[Air Zombie Meat]

Maybe if it was a ballistic knife that can be fired twenty times in a row without any pause then people might have a point.

 

[DietRob]

Just straight up ban the fucking things.

What do you do with the 200 million plus guns that are already out there? How do you get them out of the hands of the people that own them? How do you prevent them from being sold on the black market?

BTW I agree with a no gun society but it seems impossible.

 

[Pillville]

Yes.

Two teachers with chairs could have stopped him and his knife.

 

[teruterubozu]

do you really expect a couple of adults to stop a man with a 15" knife?

You could at least arm yourself against a knife - like a bat or or other blunting device. A gun can shoot from afar. Is that so hard to understand?

 

[IHaveCandy]

No it isn't. How long do you think it takes to stab someone to death vs. pulling a trigger. Maybe you've been playing too much God of War or something.

Unless you're talking about a knife that shoots bullets your "argument" remains ridiculous.

People can die with one stab. Are you serious? Do YOU think this is God of War that requires 15 slashes to kill somebody. Knives create larger wounds than billets. A single hit with a Bowie knife is far more damaging than most gunshots. Why do people think knives are semi-lethal tools?

 

[ClassyPenguin]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asia/china-knife-attack/index.html

Beijing (CNN) -- Twenty-two primary school children were wounded in a knife attack Friday in central China, authorities said.
The attack took place at the entrance to the Chenpeng Village Primary School in Henan province, according to the public information department of Guangshan county, the area where the school is located. An adult was also wounded, it said.

For those bringing up the issue of knives.

 

[Aiii]

You genuinely believe he could have killed over 20 persons with a knife? Seriously?

This actually happened in Belgium in 2008. Guy with a knife killed 3 and wounded 12 in a kindergarten, 2 kids and 1 adult died.

 

[volturnus]

all gun control does is concentrate the weapons in the hands of criminals.

This.

 

[Krowley]

Does everyone have black market contacts? I'm not from the US and I've have no idea where to even start if I wanted to get my hands on a gun. I appreciate that it's probably easier over there though.

If you ever banned guns in the US, everybody would be a black marketeer... Guns are everywhere. I know at least 30 or 40 people in my personal circle of friends/family who own multiple guns, and if there was a ban, I could easily go and buy or borrow one from them under the table, anytime I wanted.

That would be the case for pretty much anybody in America. The genie is already out of the bottle. We are an armed populace, and that isn't changing. Solutions to gun violence that involve trying to remove guns from the citizenry are dead in the water. You have to change the constitution to do that (nearly impossible), or (wrongly) alter your interpretation of the constitution. The people who already own guns--a huge percentage of the population--simply will not stand for it.

And besides, Americans have had guns forever, but this sort of psycho spree gun violence is basically a new thing. It is a cultural thing, not a gun thing. Guns obviously make it easier, and maybe it wouldn't happen if there weren't guns, but guns aren't causing it to happen. In america, because of the current gun environment, it is more practical to do something about the systemic cultural problem leading to this spree violence, or boost security measures, or something like that than it is to try taking guns away.

Making it a little harder to get guns (something like a psychological test, maybe) is a little more possible, but it would not stop a determined person from getting his hands on a gun. Guns are everywhere in america. You don't even have to find a black marketeer, just ask a friend or relative.

 

[Cake Boss]

Hmmm the country with wild west style of gun control has the most mass shootings and the most gun violence than any other country combined.

Yes we definitely need easy access to guns and especially military style assault rifles.............. to go hunting.

 

[Escape Goat]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asia/china-knife-attack/index.html



For those bringing up the issue of knives.

Whats your point again?

 

[Devolution]

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/14/world/asia/china-knife-attack/index.html



For those bringing up the issue of knives.

This actually happened in Belgium in 2008. Guy with a knife killed 5 and wounded 20 in a kindergarten, 3 kids and 2 adults died.

Do either of those places lock the schools up? I can't see a guy with a knife getting that far with how they set up schools now.

 

[Messypandas]

do you really expect a couple of adults to stop a man with a 15" knife?

Yes. How about 8 adults throwing chairs at the fucker until he's knocked off balance and restraining him? Or, in the alternative scenario he rips through all 8 out of them with a gun before they even blink. How is it even a comparison?

 

[IHaveCandy]

You could at least arm yourself against a knife - like a bat or or other blunting device. A gun can shoot from afar. Is that so hard to understand?

Do teachers have bats? And if you are a teacher, do you really think a bat is going to deter a man with a 15" knife that obviously doesn't care about his own life and just wants to kill?