ElectricBlue187
Member
this. making things illegal doesn't stop them from being used. See illicit drugs.
Would increased gun regulation have prevented Connecticut?
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this. making things illegal doesn't stop them from being used. See illicit drugs.
They probably wouldn't be able in this case. I'm not arguing a gun is significantly more dealy than a knife and if he didn't have a gun in this situation the body count would be alot lower. But knives are pretty deadly weapons on their own right especially considering the targets in this case (all women/children).
We can assume the murderer is at least a little insane, because you would have to be in order to shoot up a school, but we can also assume that perhaps he isn't "knife insane". Shooting a gun is a very point, click, walk away thing. In 10 seconds you can theortically kill 10 people from distance, and just by looking away or turning your head you can completely ingnore it (for a bit, until your brain catches up). I imagine with a knife or any close quarters weapon you can't ignore the act of killing another human being as easy. I always imagine that scene from Saving Private Ryan (I know, I know, movies LOL) where one soldier is in a knife fight with another, and the blade is slowy being driven down into him as he loses the physical battle. That's fucking terrifying, and I imagine it takes a whole new level of psycho to start cutting up little kids with a knife.
So, no deaths?
Pai Pai Master
Banned
We as a civilization are just way too far past the point where we can just "ban guns" and it would be a safe and smart call. I wish more than anything that guns didn't exist, that weapons didn't exist, that the concept of murder didn't ever occur to a single human being before, but there are just too many weapons out there, and too many evil or mentally unsound people with them.
There's something we can do here but outright banning guns entirely is not the answer. I hate guns so much but the right answer will take some time and a lot of discussions to get to, discussions that we apparently can't have right now for some reason.
Devolution
Member
We don't even have psych evals for gun purchases and even less checks when sold at events or between persons.
of course it would.
why are you guys arguing about knives vs guns? who the fuck cares. guns are harder to deal with in situations like this, of course you can kill people with knives, no shit, but in that case less lives are likely to be taken. so stupid how you guys are arguing about that shit like it matters.
why are you guys arguing about knives vs guns? who the fuck cares. guns are harder to deal with in situations like this, of course you can kill people with knives, no shit, but in that case less lives are likely to be taken. so stupid how you guys are arguing about that shit like it matters.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
I'm seeing 22 injured, no reports of deaths yet.
Also: murder and rape.
Doubt it'll ever be banned, but make it incredibly difficult to buy and possess, simple and doable.
Red Blaster
Member
this is literally the 3rd mass shooting in the country this year
and your proposed solution is to do nothing
anything to keep your little death toys I guess
SnakeswithLasers
Member
Can you address the real life issue that there was a knife attack in China today where 22 people were injured, while there was also a gun attack that we are discussing where nearly 30 people were killed. Or is your argument going to be, "You call that a knife? This is a knife."
Just because it's hard doesn't mean you need to give up even trying.
ClassyPenguin
Banned
Every time a shooting happens people argue about how other deadly weapons such as knives can be used by deranged people. It always comes up and in my opinion not really applicable to the gun control debate.
I like looking at gun control as a health issue, not a criminal one.
Dude Abides
Banned
All these hunters and military organizations around the world sure are wasting their money on expensive firearms when a knife is just as deadly.
You have to be parody trolling.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
As someone just pointed out in the other thread.
Michigan's lameduck legislature just passed this rewrite of Michigan's gun laws.
Michigan's lameduck legislature just passed this rewrite of Michigan's gun laws.
mlive said:
Delusibeta
Banned
What, and have more poeple die? Stupid idea.
Simple: less guns means less need for self-defense against guns. I'll be willing to bet good money that the guns from your Rio example came from the United States. If you think gun control is bad, then you're objectively wrong.
Note the death toll in this case.
Apples and oranges.
Devolution
Member
Why do people bring up other weapons? Can you spray knifes and kill several people at a distance? For fucks sake, it's not an argument.
Deified Data
Banned
This sounds like the system I've always envisioned. It's not going to prevent every massacre like this, but if it prevents a few it'll be totally worth it. I'd be willing to undergo a rigorous licensing period if it meant keeping guns out of the hands of a few nutjobs caught in the screening process.
I didn't propose a solution. So don't put shit in my mouth, please.
D
Deleted member 13876
Unconfirmed Member
It was a daycare, but as far as I know schools here are pretty easy to enter for the most part.
Fantastical
Death Prophet
Why are people making this all or nothing? As if reducing the amount of murders and shootings isn't enough YOU HAVE TO END THEM ALL OR IT DOESN'T MATTER.
Sadly nothing is ever going to change anything, ever.
The human race has been killing each other since we have been on this earth, nothing will ever change that. no amount of gun control, drug control, or anything else is ever going to change that reality. The reality is some fucked person snapped and took out a bunch of innocent lives with him. It was going to happen no matter what.
So what are we going to do, take everyone's guns away and melt them down? How are we going to take all the guns away? By using guns on people to take their guns away? And what happens when all the guns are gone and only certain people have guns? Who takes their guns way? Sorry but this is a problem with an impossible solution.
To sadly quote a movie, "It's in our nature to destroy ourselves". We have been doing it to each other since the beginning of time. It's sad and pathetic but the honest truth.
The human race has been killing each other since we have been on this earth, nothing will ever change that. no amount of gun control, drug control, or anything else is ever going to change that reality. The reality is some fucked person snapped and took out a bunch of innocent lives with him. It was going to happen no matter what.
So what are we going to do, take everyone's guns away and melt them down? How are we going to take all the guns away? By using guns on people to take their guns away? And what happens when all the guns are gone and only certain people have guns? Who takes their guns way? Sorry but this is a problem with an impossible solution.
To sadly quote a movie, "It's in our nature to destroy ourselves". We have been doing it to each other since the beginning of time. It's sad and pathetic but the honest truth.
Reading comprehension; I was actually pointing out that their argument was dumb.
ElectricBlue187
Member
Seems sensible enough but don't expect psych evals to keep a school shooting from happening. People are going to get the guns, no matter what feel good legislation you pass.
aggro crag
Member
The whole if we stop legal sales of guns, then only criminals will have guns is becoming a tiresome argument. 2012 is closing out with a lot of fucking gun violence. The recent shootings in Oregon and Connecticut were probably done by people who obtained those guns legally.
I have had gun advocates show up on my Facebook feed saying, well the main problem is mental heath, not gun control. Are people so fucking unwilling to acknowledge that people change over time?
I have had gun advocates show up on my Facebook feed saying, well the main problem is mental heath, not gun control. Are people so fucking unwilling to acknowledge that people change over time?
Dude Abides
Banned
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy
It's the go-to for people with an indefensible position.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
Yeah that's not how we stop people from killing people, Michigan.
Watch Da Birdie
I buy cakes for myself on my birthday it's not weird lots of people do it I bet
This reminds me of a Facebook Post I saw where people were upset over Buffalo Wild Wings (a sports bar) banning guns. You know, because beer and sports are two peaceful activities.
Why were school shootings completely eliminated in Britain and Japan, then?
lazybones18
Banned
To answer the question of the topic title, I'll just say No
Simple as that
Simple as that
kinoki
Illness is the doctor to whom we pay most heed; to kindness, to knowledge, we make promise only; pain we obey.
Guns don't kill people. People who are in possession of guns kill people.
As a european, and a swede at that I've been grown up in a gun-fearing society. I don't personally believe that police should be allowed to have guns. I don't think we should promote a society that thinks of weapons as something that a person has a right to bear.
But, I don't think that gun laws has anything with this event to do. It's an easy scape goat. Unless we can convince people to shun weapons like this laws won't make a difference.
As a european, and a swede at that I've been grown up in a gun-fearing society. I don't personally believe that police should be allowed to have guns. I don't think we should promote a society that thinks of weapons as something that a person has a right to bear.
But, I don't think that gun laws has anything with this event to do. It's an easy scape goat. Unless we can convince people to shun weapons like this laws won't make a difference.
Jeff Albertson
Member
Your argument really holds no water considering the two events over the last 24 hours
Of course knives are deadly, so are many things but few things can compare to a gun when you talk about potential to cause fatalities rapidly and easily
Deified Data
Banned
Remind me to patent knife spray.
Devolution
Member
It's asinine as fuck. People can't shoot off hundreds of knives, you sure can with guns and bullets though. Knife argument is so incredibly fucking stupid and disingenuous.
IHaveCandy
Banned
So the fact that there have been failed knife attacks make them not seriously lethal?
I'm not saying a knife of any kind would certainly still lead to the same amount of death. I'm saying the killer could easily create the same kind of tragedy with a large knife. Is a gun more lethal and tactically efficient than a knife? Yes. But A LOT of people are responding with "A knife? Really? You think a knife can really cause something like this?" and it's absurd. I really think a lot of people here don't understand how lethal a large knife can be. And there are even some advantages with a knife. I tend to carry a pocket knife with me for both utility and protection. It's rather unnerving to think how easy it would be for me to silently shank people in a bustling mall without anybody knowing for some time. Knives are dangerous. Don't talk about them like they are some tool that will at worst put you in the hospital.
LyleLanley
Banned
This is a great point.
balladofwindfishes
Member
You don't have to outright ban guns, it's not black and white.
How about requiring training in firearm safety before owning a gun?
How about registering a gun with the local police force and making it a major crime for it to go missing?
How about making a psych-evaluation before purchasing a gun?
How about limiting the caliber of ammunition able to be purchased?
None of those things require banning of guns. None of those things make it impossible to own a gun. None of them infringe on anyone's right to own a gun. All of those things make it inconvenient to get a gun.
A gun should be a serious purchase made with a lot of thought and discussion. It's a dangerous tool whose only purpose is to kill. You shouldn't be able to hop into Walmart with a drivers license and purchase a gun and enough ammunition to rival a police squad. That shouldn't happen.
It doesn't matter if you can buy guns on the black market. The vast majority of people will never even consider this. The vast majority of criminals will not even consider this. Anything, anything at all that makes a psycho re-think their actions should be taken. You don't think someone might not snap as easy if they can't just hop into Walmart and pick up a gun?
airmangataosenai
Member
Agreed, let us never ever discuss this when it's relevant and then quickly forget it until the next massacre a month or two from now.
DataStream
Member
Given the # of guns in the US its hard to imagine what real gun control would look like. But banning the sale of all new firearms, components to firearms, and ammunition would eventually have an effect.
Anyone making arguments about guns in hands of criminals blah blah should look at crime stats for pretty much any other country with gun control. Things are insanely bad here.
We also need to put serious money into mental health and rehab. Seems like a good time to look at drugs as a public health issue so we can pool funds for proper hospitals and social services.
Anyone making arguments about guns in hands of criminals blah blah should look at crime stats for pretty much any other country with gun control. Things are insanely bad here.
We also need to put serious money into mental health and rehab. Seems like a good time to look at drugs as a public health issue so we can pool funds for proper hospitals and social services.
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