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[pompidu]

You deserve to be beatin for shitting up this thread.

 

[Freshmaker]

A nation that can't even give others health care because not on my dime is going to fight any gun legislation. So many grown ass children who think their wants and desires should become before any decent society.

Culture of life.

 

[Jackpot]

Simply reverting to what the laws were under Clinton won't do much. He had Colorado. And the GOP will sap all the will to change stuff even after this tiny amendment. Tackle handguns.

 

[Mifune]

Or we reduce the military budget by 5% and fund mental health programs in this country.

But no...that's not the problem. The problem wasn't this guy got no help. It wasn't that everyone around him "saw it coming". It wasn't that his mom kept guns in the house with a known mentally unstable person. It isn't she didn't keep her guns in a safe.

No. It's that semi-automatic weapons exist. Despite the fact that they are in the distinct minority of weapons used for crime.

People keep saying "But banning them would help!". But once again...with semi-autos making up such a small portion of gun crime...it's not going to help.

Mental health and guns are both the problem.

 

[commedieu]

Or we reduce the military budget by 5% and fund mental health programs in this country.

But no...that's not the problem. The problem wasn't this guy got no help. It wasn't that everyone around him "saw it coming". It wasn't that his mom kept guns in the house with a known mentally unstable person. It isn't she didn't keep her guns in a safe.

No. It's that semi-automatic weapons exist. Despite the fact that they are in the distinct minority of weapons used for crime.

People keep saying "But banning them would help!". But once again...with semi-autos making up such a small portion of gun crime...it's not going to help.

Mammoth,

Health is part of the problem, as are certain types of weapons. The climate in america(Obamacare) is one in which the mental attention isn't coming anytime soon.

I agree 100% that Mental Health is a facet of it, but until we get there we need to take a multiple pronged approach with compromises. Gun control is one of the issues. As i've already said, several guns are banned legally. This is just adding more to that list of already banned weapons.

You're clearly aware of the problems, that discussion though is a big game changer. Which isn't really going to happen in the USA. So saying lets just focus on health, and not guns at the moment, is saying lets focus on something unrealistic, and keep weapon access the way it is in the eventuality that the unrealistic happens.

I saw Starcraft mentioned today in regards to the shooting.... just to show you how far away from mental health this is going.

 

[Kinyou]

Does the War in Afghanistan and the occupation of Iraq ring any bells?

The war in afghanistan is fought quite differently than the second world war.

 

[pigeon]

Or we reduce the military budget by 5% and fund mental health programs in this country.

But no...that's not the problem. The problem wasn't this guy got no help. It wasn't that everyone around him "saw it coming". It wasn't that his mom kept guns in the house with a known mentally unstable person. It isn't she didn't keep her guns in a safe.

No. It's that semi-automatic weapons exist. Despite the fact that they are in the distinct minority of weapons used for crime.

People keep saying "But banning them would help!". But once again...with semi-autos making up such a small portion of gun crime...it's not going to help.

I don't think this is crazy, but it's a question of what you're trying to accomplish. Gun crime in the general is a permanent underclass problem and gun control won't solve it. But it should be clear at this point that people don't really care about gun crime, they care about mass shootings. Targeting that is a harder task.

In terms of seeing it coming:

Their fear wasn’t that he was dangerous. “It was completely the opposite,” said Richard J. Novia, the director of security at Newtown School District at the time in 2007. “At that point in his life, he posed no threat to anyone else. We were worried about him being the victim or that he could hurt himself.”

Long before Mr. Lanza allegedly killed his mother and then blasted his way into a Connecticut elementary school on a rampage that left 27 dead, authorities were concerned about a young man who was unusually withdrawn and socially maladroit. The scrawny teenager with a mop of brown hair evoked feelings of sympathy, not fear, from teachers and the few classmates who even noticed him.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB100...910797348422.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopSt ories

Nobody saw it coming. And when it comes to handling gun access for people who might be unstable, you're relying on the person least capable of making a rational decision on the topic -- the kid's parent. How do you give people better judgement about their children?

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Or we reduce the military budget by 5% and fund mental health programs in this country.

But no...that's not the problem. The problem wasn't this guy got no help. It wasn't that everyone around him "saw it coming". It wasn't that his mom kept guns in the house with a known mentally unstable person. It isn't she didn't keep her guns in a safe.

No. It's that semi-automatic weapons exist. Despite the fact that they are in the distinct minority of weapons used for crime.

People keep saying "But banning them would help!". But once again...with semi-autos making up such a small portion of gun crime...it's not going to help.

Of course it can help
Every little bit helps

Got to start somewhere.

 

[diehard]

Guns are designed to kill things, alcohol is a beverage.
Your comparison is incredibly dumb.

Guns are designed to propel a small piece of metal in the direction they are pointed, and only when intended.

What you do with it is up to an individual, exactly the same as alcohol.


I have fired thousands of rounds and never killed a damn thing.

Just like im sure you have consumed a lot of alcohol and decided not to drive.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

High capactiy magazines and weapons should definitely be banned. Hard to go on a rampage when your weapon only holds 10 rounds a clip.

Yea, it's not like he wouldn't have swapped a magazine in less than 3 seconds or anything...

Or purchased a pre-ban magazine. That's what you're not getting...even in NY which HAS the assault weapons ban...ANYONE can buy a pre-ban high capacity magazine as long as it's stamped *prior* to the ban date. They're expensive but plenty of people do that.

But whatever. "Ban all the bad things" didn't work for drugs. It didn't work for alcohol. Why does anyone think it's going to work for firearms in a country with such a history with them?

 

[linsivvi]

Ok you ban assault weapons so certain collectors can't get very specific mods for their scary looking guns but people will go en masse to gun dealers and buy them by the truckload before it becomes illegal. What problem have you just fixed there?

Such that the number of assault weapons available will stop increasing and will slowly decline over time? Is that such a difficult concept to grasp?

 

[KHarvey16]

I just saw this in facebook.

During WWII the Japanese decided not to invade America because they knew most Americans were ARMED!

Lololololololol

Do they really think that a gang of average joes with some revolvers and rifles stand a chance against a profesional Army?

I don't think it's entirely relevant to the current discussion regarding guns, or prove any side more correct, but just in the intetest of being correct you better believe 300 million guns will be a cause for concern for any army looking to invade.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Such that the number of assault weapons available will stop increasing and will slowly decline over time? Is that such a difficult concept to grasp?

except they won't because the guns are still legal, it's just stuff like grenade launchers that aren't...

 

[Devolution]

Culture of life.

Seriously. Fuck being taxed more so that others can get preventative care, contraception and a better standard of living and fuck the government for wanting to limit the availability of a lethal weapon that is the cause of so many deaths in this country. What the fuck do they think this is a society? Nah, I got MY rights. MY MY MY MY MY RIGHTS. Fuck this country.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

And when some crazy goes on a rampage with a shotgun and people cry to take those away?

My AK holds a fuck load more rounds than a shotgun. I don't believe in slippery slope arguments. Gays getting married won't lead to people wanting to marry their dog any more than banning high capacity magazines will lead to us losing all our guns. That shit's not happening.

This is the weapon Lanza used:

Guess I need to try and find a more up to date article and see if it changed. But, the evening of the shooting it was reported the rifle wasn't used, that it was found in his car. That could have easily changed obviously since there is a lot of incorrect information right after, but that's where our confusion is coming from.

As long as its something they don't personally use or enjoy.

GAF:
Violent movies and games to blame? FUCK OFF!

Read the post he was responding to. I love and use guns, even big scary ones like an AK. I still think something needs to change.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Closing the gunshow loophole is good.

"assault" weapon bans are a joke

 

[BeEatNU]

This is what I don't get, from all the reports I saw, the shootings was done with hand guns.
NOT THE AR.

edit: unless something has changed in the info I've been reading.

 

[Bornstellar]

Quenching your thirst.

Not sure if serious since alcohol dehydrates the body.

 

[danwarb]

Guns are designed to propel a small piece of metal in the direction they are pointed, and only when intended.

What you do with it is up to an individual, exactly the same as alcohol.

I want a nuclear bomb. Thousands have been set off in tests and haven't killed anyone.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Guns are designed to propel a small piece of metal in the direction they are pointed, and only when intended.

What you do with it is up to an individual, exactly the same as alcohol.

lol OK.

If you just want to fire a gun in a firing range, that's cool, keep the guns secure inside the range and ban them from all public places.

 

[pompidu]

Guns are designed to propel a small piece of metal in the direction they are pointed, and only when intended.

What you do with it is up to an individual, exactly the same as alcohol.

Well shit, let's legalize a bazooka. All it does is propel a piece of metal in the direction its pointed at and then eventually explodes.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Such that the number of assault weapons available will stop increasing and will slowly decline over time? Is that such a difficult concept to grasp?

Except that manufacturers will still make them to work around the ban. Just like they do for NY and CA. We just buy "AWB Compliant" semi-auto rifles. Just as deadly. Thankfully in the hands of a law abiding citizen they're nothing but a tool for punching holes in paper, hunting and self defense.

 

[Talon]

But whatever. "Ban all the bad things" didn't work for drugs. It didn't work for alcohol. Why does anyone think it's going to work for firearms in a country with such a history with them?

Nobody thinks that banning assault weapons is going to stop all mass shootings - straw man ahoy. The intent is to cause more roadblocks to prevent this sort of thing.

 

[DietRob]

No tickets to this gun show:

 

[SnakeswithLasers]

Obama also supported tax increases on the wealthy and closing Guantanamo.

So, assault weapons for everyone!

 

[richiek]

Or purchased a pre-ban magazine. That's what you're not getting...even in NY which HAS the assault weapons ban...ANYONE can buy a pre-ban high capacity magazine as long as it's stamped *prior* to the ban date. They're expensive but plenty of people do that.

Get rid of the pre-ban date loophole then, which I'm pretty sure the new proposed legislation will do.

Guess I need to try and find a more up to date article and see if it changed. But, the evening of the shooting it was reported the rifle wasn't used, that it was found in his car. That could have easily changed obviously since there is a lot of incorrect information right after, but that's where our confusion is coming from.

A shotgun was found in his car. Lanza used a Bushmaster rifle and two pistols in the school shooting.

 

[commedieu]

Nobody thinks that banning assault weapons is going to stop all mass shootings - straw man ahoy. The intent is to cause more roadblocks to prevent this sort of thing.

The straws keep coming over and over.

No matter how many times people say reduce/prevention, etc... its still

'GUN BANNING WONT STOP GUN CRIMES SO IM KEEPING MY GUNS! GET IT!?!"

 

[YuriLowell]

God forbid people that enjoy shooting guns at a gun range. You should try it, it's quite fun.

Then rent one at a range, no reason to have one in your closet.

 

[derder]

Am I the only one who doesn't see a difference between 3 dead kindergardeners and 50?

Gun control prevented him from getting a gun from Walmart. He stole multiple guns from his mother and fucking killed her. He didn't need an assault rifle to kill his mom and 30 5-year-olds.

The assault rifle ban is just stupid. I don't mind the ban, itself, but it's ignoring the problem.

 

[iapetus]

I do agree with the argument that even without 'military-like' rifles, a shooter can still do just as much damage.

I hear this argument a lot. And my response is always the same. If a shooter can do just as much damage just as effectively without 'military-like' rifles, then why the fuck do the military waste their money on military rifles?

 

[Measley]

Guns are designed to propel a small piece of metal in the direction they are pointed, and only when intended.

Yeah, propel a small piece of metal into the flesh of a living creature. That's it's only purpose. It's an instrument of death, and that's all it is.

 

[Cyan]

Ah yes, the cars argument. I knew it was coming and there it is.

This'll be a much more interesting argument once self-driving cars take over.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Nobody thinks that banning assault weapons is going to stop all mass shootings - straw man ahoy. The intent is to cause more roadblocks to prevent this sort of thing.

The point is that it. blocks. nothing.

Do you get my point? Tell me how the AWB will stop someone from doing exactly what just happened?

What? The magazine size? As if he couldn't swap a magazine? I'm saying the real problem was not keeping those guns in a safe. People need to lock up their firearms if they have them. And maybe, just maybe they shouldn't have them in the home of someone with serious emotional and mental issues...

With yea, a collapsible stock, lack of muzzle flash and a 10rd limit will prevent this sort of thing......

 

[Vyroxis]

Afghans and Iraqis also had explosives and RPGs. They're more heavily armed that your average American with a pistol or shotgun.

If my memory serves me correctly, when my cousin was stationed in Iraq his unit was more afraid of the guys with old AKs and long range rifles than they were of the guys with the rocket launchers and grenades.

 

[Meier]

Hopefully it happens. There needs to be a ban on assault weapons and body armor for public consumption. There is no scenario where a regular person would ever need either of these things.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Does the War in Afghanistan and the occupation of Iraq ring any bells?

I really don't get this line of thinking.

"no one needs military style guns!"

followed by

"do you really think you can stand up to the military!?"

 

[Bornstellar]

Then rent one at a range, no reason to have one in your closet.

There's a massive discrepancy between the quality of rented firearms and those an individual owns (assuming proper care).

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Get rid of the pre-ban date loophole then, which I'm pretty sure the new proposed legislation will do.

A lack grandfather clause would guarantee the bill be DOA. That's not going to happen.

Getting rid of that clause would then actively attempt to take possessions from everyone. Whether or not they actually did anything wrong.

 

[linsivvi]

except they won't because the guns are still legal, it's just stuff like grenade launchers that aren't...

Except that manufacturers will still make them to work around the ban. Just like they do for NY and CA. We just buy "AWB Compliant" semi-auto rifles. Just as deadly. Thankfully in the hands of a law abiding citizen they're nothing but a tool for punching holes in paper, hunting and self defense.

Then they should ban those too.

Oh you can't buy those guns any more? Too bad. The world don't care.

You need a tool? Go buy a real tool.

SHRUG.

 

[BlazingDarkness]

Am I the only one who doesn't see a difference between 3 dead kindergardeners and 50?

Gun control prevented him from getting a gun from Walmart. He stole multiple guns from his mother and fucking killed her. He didn't need an assault rifle to kill his mom and 30 5-year-olds.

The assault rifle ban is just stupid. I don't mind the ban, itself, but it's ignoring the problem.

It's not stupid
It's simply reducing the number of guns available to the public, and the less guns readily available will result in less deaths by guns.

Targeting assault weapons first makes more sense because your average American citizen has no reason to have such a high powered weapon

 

[GoldenEye 007]

Then rent one at a range, no reason to have one in your closet.

You have no place to say such a thing.

 

[ElectricBlue187]

Then they should ban those too.

Ban all the things!

 

[LordCanti]

Yea, it's not like he wouldn't have swapped a magazine in less than 3 seconds or anything...

Or purchased a pre-ban magazine. That's what you're not getting...even in NY which HAS the assault weapons ban...ANYONE can buy a pre-ban high capacity magazine as long as it's stamped *prior* to the ban date. They're expensive but plenty of people do that.

But whatever. "Ban all the bad things" didn't work for drugs. It didn't work for alcohol. Why does anyone think it's going to work for firearms in a country with such a history with them?

You can't get addicted to a gun. Banning drugs and alcohol won't work because people detox without them. If people gave up their guns, nothing bad would happen to them.

I realize that there's the whole "if you ban guns only criminals will have guns" argument, but that's not pertinent to the question you asked.

 

[YuriLowell]

There's a massive discrepancy between the quality of rented firearms and those an individual owns (assuming proper care).

Thats not an excuse to have them be legal.

You have no place to say such a thing.

And why is that? When have you ever needed an Assault Weapon in your daily life as a civilian?

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

What? The magazine size? As if he couldn't swap a magazine? I'm saying the real problem was not keeping those guns in a safe. People need to lock up their firearms if they have them. And maybe, just maybe they shouldn't have them in the home of someone with serious emotional and mental issues...

Isn't this law in Germany? I don't get why it isn't here. If you own a gun, there is zero excuse not to keep it locked up.

 

[commedieu]

The point is that it. blocks. nothing.

Do you get my point? Tell me how the AWB will stop someone from doing exactly what just happened?

What? The magazine size? As if he couldn't swap a magazine? I'm saying the real problem was not keeping those guns in a safe. People need to lock up their firearms if they have them. And maybe, just maybe they shouldn't have them in the home of someone with serious emotional and mental issues...

With yea, a collapsible stock, lack of muzzle flash and a 10rd limit will prevent this sort of thing......

Mammoth, why are certain weapons and modifications banned from civilian use then? There are already laws like these.

And I feel like Ill have to tag every post with;

Banning certain guns won't stop all gun crime, but it will prevent some. That some, is worth giving up civilian access to the weapon.

 

[linsivvi]

Ban all the things!

No, just guns.

Don't agree? Too bad. You're on the wrong side of history.

And I refuse to be polite to gun advocates in light of all these violence that occurs.

 

[diehard]

Yeah, propel a small piece of metal into the flesh of a living creature. That's it's only purpose. It's an instrument of death, and that's all it is.

well i guess that went right over your head.

Not that i expected any less.

lol at Devo complaining about people defending their rights; when thats basically her entire post history regarding abortion.

 

[Snkfanatic]

This'll be a much more interesting argument once self-driving cars take over.

Ugh...don't remind me. I love driving and hope it will never be taken away from me.

 

[Krowley]

Does the War in Afghanistan and the occupation of Iraq ring any bells?

Very true.. Not sure if the japan thing is accurate.. Probably not, but there is no question that the armed populace in america would basically be impossible to control by any foreign power, even if they could somehow manage an invasion, which they couldn't.

It's not really relevant to the discussion, exactly, but it is true.