Where are you coming up with these cartoon like scenarios? Defending yourself when someone comes to take something away from you that was a right and then all of a sudden turned off like a lightswitch is murdering?
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NRA's solution to Sandy Hook massacre: "armed guards" in every school
- Thread starter Josh7289
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Where are you coming up with these cartoon like scenarios? Defending yourself when someone comes to take something away from you that was a right and then all of a sudden turned off like a lightswitch is murdering?
They'll cut services to the poor to compensate. They also don't realize that they are the poor, which makes it even more ironic.
True but if you refuse to give up (not killing people) something you see as one of your basic freedoms, are you still mentally ill?
Not that it matters really because the government is never going to fully appeal the second amendment.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Why even delve this far deep into a hypothetical that's not happening?
Now we need to get into bullet design and whatnot.
Disclaimer: I do not hunt so if I am wrong please correct me. .223/5.56 is a good hunting round because it kills animals quickly. At very high velocities and when unstabilied it can fragment, and when designed to fragment it obviously will do so. This is not necessarily a bad thing for hunting as long as the would channel leaves enough meat to harvest. As for over penetration, the fragmentation helps prevent that by reducing the mass of each piece and therefore its energy.Banning a particular round is not very practical becuase someone will just tweak the design a bit and then you have a new unbanned round the same as the old one. Bannings bay bullet diameter are easier to make comrehensive, but a .22lr (a very low powered round) and a 5.56mm have basically the same diameter bullet, just different cases and poweder loads.
a 5.56NATO is not some massive powerhouse of a round, many soldiers and policymakers think it is too weak and a more powerful round should be issued.
Edit: Got so busy with my reply I missed your addition.
Ah. I think it is important to remember that AR15 rifles use regular ammunition that is the same specifiaction asmany bolt action hunting rifles.
Oh no, cameras and locked doors! Won't someone please think of the children?!
I've said this elsewhere to people, but here's how I see this as an educator:
As this tragedy fades into our national memory, kids won't see armed guards as protectors from outside forces. They'll see people walking around in the halls with guns and think "those people are here to make sure I don't leave and that I behave". You can't teach a kid who feels like they're in a prison. Environment is a huge factor in education, and this doesn't promote the correct mindset a kid needs to be in to maximize their learning.
As this tragedy fades into our national memory, kids won't see armed guards as protectors from outside forces. They'll see people walking around in the halls with guns and think "those people are here to make sure I don't leave and that I behave". You can't teach a kid who feels like they're in a prison. Environment is a huge factor in education, and this doesn't promote the correct mindset a kid needs to be in to maximize their learning.
Are you being serious here? You wouldn't classify killing someone that's taking your gun away as murder? What in fuck?!
I don't want my guns taken away because they are my primary hobby. I like to wage war on soda cans and pieces of paper from long distances, not defend myself from Uncle Sam.
AR15s are extremely fun rifles because they are very customizable. I can outfit one to fit me like a glove. With a standard rifle I can maybe extend the stock and change some of the functional components, but I don't have a lot of options as far as ergonomics go.
AR15s are extremely fun rifles because they are very customizable. I can outfit one to fit me like a glove. With a standard rifle I can maybe extend the stock and change some of the functional components, but I don't have a lot of options as far as ergonomics go.
Mercury Fred
Banned
lol!
Eight Diagram Bat Fighter
Banned
I've had cops with guns back in high school daily since 1999, there were even a few in my elementary school back in the 80s. Nothing new.
In elementary school certainly I agree with you. I had no problem with a police officer at my high school, however. I think at that age people understand better why he would be there.
In the very specific (and unrealistic) scenario I painted, yes.
As Mammoth said, why even delve that deep into something that isn't going to happen?
BTW, I'm not advocating "do nothing" concerning guns and gun control, but damn, swinging the pendulum all the way in the other direction is a crazy and short-sighted over reaction to an issue as multi-faceted as this one.
TangoAlphaLima
Member
Okay, so what are the underlying issues and how do you solve them?
I don't see any way this problem is solved in the short term. Changing our gun culture will be at a snail's pace. Perhaps high capacity magazines and assault rifles will be banned, but that will not solve the problem, because handguns will surely continue to be legal.
The most immediate solution is to put a cop at every school and tighten security. Continue to work on gun control laws, sure, but keep the kids safe in the process.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
yea esp if there is a law making certain guns illegal. If a cop ever comes by to take someones weed away, it's okay to shoot them now!
Dude. . .
Because it was being talked about, and because there's a lot of mentally ill gun nuts.
No to the first part, true on the second part.
Because it was being discussed in the thread, and because there are a lot of mentally ill gun nuts.
You don't kill someone who is trying to take away your gun. You should comply at the time and then take diplomatic avenues to try to get your weapons back if that is what you desire. Murder is murder.
gutter_trash
Banned
the poorest states vote for these right wing nuts to begin with, so yeah... not surprised
Messofanego
Banned
I just shouted WHAT reading that.
Devolution
Member
Can't wait for armed guards to kill one of the kids because they acted suspicious or were playing wild wild west in the playground.
I'm actually looking at this from a high school perspective. Even if the kids understand why they're there, it's not going to make them feel safer, it's going to make them feel fearful.
Also high school kids value the freedom that comes along with high school. To have armed guards patrol while the kids walk between classes is going to hinder that.
The school I work at has a security team, made up of mostly former police officers. They don't have any weapons. They wear casual windbreakers in the school colors to identify them. They do a lot of work making the kids feel comfortable with them and not to think of them like a guard, but rather someone looking out for their welfare. They're very relaxed and casual and often chat with the kids about sports and that kind of thing and always greet kids that walk by them.
It's hard to do that with a deadly weapon at your side.
There are towns that don't have police forces at all (they only have county sherrif's departments). There's no money for putting a cop in every school. There's barely enough money to teach kids to begin with.
gutterboy44
Member
So murdering dozens in the matter of minutes "can be done with any other type of weapon" But defending your home and property can only be done with a gun?
Got it.
Got it.
Has this happened yet at schools who do have armed guards?
If the government said your semi-automatic weapon was now illegal and you could only use single-shot weapons and you wanted to KILL people because of it, you may not be mentally ill, but you're definitely a piece of shit.
User 100115
Banned
There's barely enough money for cops period. The town I grew up in doesn't have one. We loan one every other day from the county. So if someone breaks into your house, calling the cops on the wrong day would take upwards of 40 minutes to get help.
easy you cut money to mental health programs duh
or to all those damn classes these kids take these days like history, we don't need that.
CharlieDigital
Banned
Or because they won't let him take their smokes out of their backpack or whatever.
Oh okay, well I see where you are coming from. The officer at my school stayed out of the way (he had an office somewhere in the administrative section of the building). Us students didn't really notice him. But maybe it had an effect on other students that I just wasn't aware of. I am not sure if he even carried a gun honestly.
The situation that your school is in is probably the better one. Maybe not one that could be replicated in other places though.
glaringradio
Member
Say guns where made illegal tomorrow, what exactly would happen?
Adam Scott Aukerman
Member
Please tell me you meant sociopaths or that's a joke that's flown right over my head. People with depression are no more ticking time bombs of crime than anyone else.
Devolution
Member
You put them at every school some stupid shit is bound to happen. Anyway the whole idea stinks of turning schools into something even more similar to prisons. Shit was bad enough when I was going to highschool post Columbine, now there is fencing everywhere, punishments for not having your ID on you 24/7 and a whole litany of other shit done before you can just sit down and learn, the whole reason they came to school in the first place.
Goodacre0081
Member
how would this really help? what happens when one of these guards goes off the nut one day?
CharlieDigital
Banned
What happens if the attacker just shoots the cop/guard first and then takes his guns and ammo, too?
User 100115
Banned
It was sarcasm, yeah. The NRA calling for a national database of mentally ill people would (I assume) include depressed people, which would be completely stupid.
gutter_trash
Banned
why are there so many gun crimes to begin with?
because there are too many US made guns produced and in circulation!!!!
LOL
Fewer guns would reduce gun violence, not more.
But but you must protect yourself!!!! yeah but where did those guns come from in the first place?
Those guns don't come from Russia or North Korea, those guns are made right here!!!!
Ban non-hunting guns from civilians all entirely and just keep them for cops and troops.
because there are too many US made guns produced and in circulation!!!!
LOL
Fewer guns would reduce gun violence, not more.
But but you must protect yourself!!!! yeah but where did those guns come from in the first place?
Those guns don't come from Russia or North Korea, those guns are made right here!!!!
Ban non-hunting guns from civilians all entirely and just keep them for cops and troops.
I assume the government would send out armed patrols to every house in America asking people to give up their guns. Some would comply, some would refuse, and some would rise up in armed revolt. I could see a lot of places (in rural areas mostly) in open revolt from the government.
What happens if a cop does this? How is this any different than a police officer going berserk and shooting up his precinct or a school?
Are trained guards more susceptible to mental health issues than other armed figures in society?
I agree.
This argument holds no meaning for me. I don't care about your hobby. I care about whether people live or die.
What happens if a teacher goes nuts one day? The same thing.
But that would be less fun.
Doc Holliday
SPOILER: Columbus finds America
Saw this at gawker lol...
Well.... Yes?
Are you really arguing that it is acceptable to murder someone who is trying to take your guns? And not "some random thief in the night" someone; someone who is taking your gun legally because of some duly passed hypothetical law or constitutional amendment and who is not personally responsible for taking your gun but is acting only a representative of the government?
Sounds good to me. Although I think civilians should be able to go to firing ranges and use other guns, if those guns were locked up at the firing ranges and not allowed to leave.
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