Windows 8's uptake falls behind Vista's pace

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They cant save it cause they shipped it. Have to wait for windows 9 now.

not really, windows blue is a thing, some details already leaked by some Chinese site too. the point of it to further unify desktop and metro, not the changes you want but it should make the experience better and will be out next year if rumors are to be believed. Windows is going to get annual cheap or free upgrades like OSX from now on, it won't be a 3 year gap and they don't want another xp effect with 7 to happen.


http://www.extremetech.com/computin...-feature-a-more-customizable-version-of-metro
 
I loved Windows 7, and for the most part I feel like I'm still using it. You know, except for the whole start menu thing. It's really pretty looking so I can't complain.
 
I have and love 7 so why would I upgrade to a tablet oriented OS that also puts restrictions on other gaming services for devs? There's no reason at all to upgrade.
 
What's the uptake for RT? Straight horizontal line?

I thin windows RT/Surface is a complete bust. Dead as a dodo compared to Apple/Android tablets. There's perhaps a future for devices like the Surface Pro but we'll have to wait for 2013 for that.
 
I have and love 7 so why would I upgrade to a tablet oriented OS that also puts restrictions on other gaming services for devs? There's no reason at all to upgrade.

It's things like this that make me laugh, what the hell are you talking about? Microsoft isn't stopping people from developing on the desktop, metro isn't entirely windows 8...
 
the games on the store are the likes of stuff you find on iOS, touch friendly bite sized things, with the restrictions in place I don't know what aspect of it would put restrictions on PC stores, it's entirely different thing, something we didn't have before on PC. How many touch oriented games you can buy on Steam? no one even thinks about it for games there, so that means it "shouldn't" be in windows? ok, good thing most people on other platforms disagree with that.

Dreams-Visions said:
of that there is no debate. but my understanding is that Intel is partially to blame? or did I misread?
yeah, new tablets and hybrids based on new intel CPU were all delayed, because of a driver issues. Windows 8 launched with hardly any hardware to show for it, there is hardly any win8 tablet out there right now.
 
But it pays to play it safe. Safe and Smart.

Safe and Smart is making an os that runs on anything but caters entirely to the main input method. Instead of mangling one ui into a 'one size fits all' shit.

Metro should have stuck to tablets. Desktop for desktops and laptops. There is a fundamental difference between the two inputs. And you dont try to force a compromised ui onto both, when you could just as easily cater to each distinct environment. Its like trying to build a japanese garden in antarctica and an olive grove in siberia. Things work in certain environments, and not in others. Its just common sense.

Hell, if anything microsoft was playing safe in trying to leverage their desktop dominance onto tablets. It was the lazy way to compete with ios and android. Rather than building 2 uis for 2 different environments, they tried to force metro onto desktop and force horrible desktop elements onto their tablets. They played it safe by building on their bread and butter. Except it didnt work, because as said, different strokes for different inputs.

You still have access to the Desktop, and your only interaction with Metro would be the Start screen, application list, and settings. You can still access control panel if you don't want the Metro UI settings, and File Explorer others. The Metro UI is definitely catered for tablets, but it's not a chore to navigate it with a mouse and keyboard. In fact, it's quite easy. It's really just a reskinned Start menu in full screen.

OS X is definitely playing it safe, which is definitely not a bad thing. I just don't see as much innovation from them on OS X as I see with Microsoft and Windows.
 
OS X is definitely playing it safe, which is definitely not a bad thing. I just don't see as much innovation from them on OS X as I see with Microsoft and Windows.

I don't know. Part of the direction we're seeing from Microsoft is a function of them wanting to compete in the tablet space and deciding a single hybrid OS is better than 2 separate ones as far as marketability goes, anyway.

If MS had created a separate OS for tablets like Apple did for theirs, we probably would talking about "innovation" in a much different way regarding MS right now. They just took a different approach.
 
separate OS wouldn't work, it takes a lot of convincing to get devs on WP, it would be even harder for a tablet OS. This way there is the huge user base of PC added into the mix. Microsoft is way late to the party of Android and iOS and this is the only way they can get any traction for their ecosystem now.

their mistake was being late, they missed the cheap $200-$300 tablet market too just this year.
 
I remember when I first heard about Windows 8, I thought it was a great idea. Two operating systems in one! Brilliant! You'll have tablets that can run in Metro while you're out and about and then go into full desktop mode when you dock at home if you want to. I envisioned some kind of option to manually switch between the two modes.

Then I learned that they were going to stitch them together so desktop users had parts of the tablet OS forced on them and tablet users had parts of the desktop OS forced on them. It just didn't make sense. Why would you do that? Unfortunately, that's what we got.

I still think the two-OSs-in-one thing is a good idea, but they need to be completely separate modes and only share core elements like file locations and basic settings.

It would be awesome if, down the road, I could get an iPad that ran iOS while in tablet mode, but could dock and run Mac OSX Ultra Lion or whatever their desktop OS is at the time.
 
If true this wouldnt surprise me at all. W7 is fantastic and I find W8 very unattractive as a product that I would have to pay for. Im just not interested.


I reckon comparisons and stories like this are going to continue for about a year or more. I don't see them matching the pace of previous OS launches long term with W8. I think its possible that it will fall behind the uptake of the previous Windows launches; even if it lept out of the gate faster initially. Time will tell, but I am definitely happy with W7. Best desktop OS since its release IMO.
 
separate OS wouldn't work, it takes a lot of convincing to get devs on WP, it would be even harder for a tablet OS. This way there is the huge user base of PC added into the mix. Microsoft is way late to the party of Android and iOS and this is the only way they can get any traction for their ecosystem now.

their mistake was being late, they missed the cheap $200-$300 tablet market too just this year.

I agree. Them being extremely late to the party with a legitimate competitor coupled with the multiple mobile failures in the recent past are the reason why an independent mobile OS for tablets was probably a non-starter at Microsoft.

But the point remains. The reason Windows 8 is what it is now isn't because of some amazing innovative vision to put mobile and desktop OSes into one OS; it was out of necessity. A separate OS couldn't survive in the marketplace at this point for all the reasons you and I have mentioned. This was their best remaining option. Whether the marriage of tablet and desktop OSes will work is anyone's guess. Time will tell.
 
I have and love 7 so why would I upgrade to a tablet oriented OS that also puts restrictions on other gaming services for devs? There's no reason at all to upgrade.
More keyboard-orientated UI is a good reason to upgrade if you're down with being more efficient day to day.

Faster boot times, too.

There are no restrictions placed on creating software for Windows 8. You're thinking of a very separate app store that is geared towards the tablet user and in no way impacts a developer's ability to do what they want in terms of creating software for the platform.
 
I agree. Them being extremely late to the party with a legitimate competitor coupled with the multiple mobile failures in the recent past are the reason why an independent mobile OS for tablets was probably a non-starter at Microsoft.

But the point remains. The reason Windows 8 is what it is now isn't because of some amazing innovative vision to put mobile and desktop OSes into one OS; it was out of necessity. A separate OS couldn't survive in the marketplace at this point for all the reasons you and I have mentioned. This was their best remaining option. Whether the marriage of tablet and desktop OSes will work is anyone's guess. Time will tell.

The fact that they (MS) are still try to make annal /bi-annal release of OS and charge for it means MS will never get the new cloud economic.

MS is still trying to charge $10-15 for a copy of WP8 and around 50-70 for a license for Windows RT. How out of touch is MS, you tell me.
 
well, if there is any innovation it's in the modern UI and live tiles which were borrowed from WP, rest of it hardly anything is new.

Ribbons were in office 2010, they just added it to Windows, as far as everything else goes it's background stuff, nothing that users would notice on first look and other small UI enhancements.

yeah, I don't think there is much innovations here in windows 8, it just gathers the designs from other MS products into one and that seems to be the whole point of it and their strategy.
 
Okay Windows 8 might be bad but surely it can't be worse than Vista...

Even taking into account what was available at their respective launch times, Windows 8 is most definitely not worse than Vita. Vita at launch was quite a mess. Windows 8 may be confusing and a bit disjointed, it's still pretty good. It would be universally better than Windows 7 if they just made all of that Metro stuff completely optional.
 
What they really needed to do was to improve the user experience for desktop mode and make it more attractive. Desktop users couldn't care less about metro really, and it shows from the sales. People just don't feel the need to upgrade.
 
This isn't an indicator of the quality of the OS, but rather an indicator how all that bad press and misinformation has hurt sales.
 
The Funny difference in opinions I find is that while us techies supposedly "hate it because of change", normal people tend to like it. I upgraded my parents to Windows 8 and they love it more than 7... and my parents aren't exactly great with computers.

At this point its doing bad for several reasons. one of them is a severe lack of Windows 8 hardware on the market, another is that computer geeks kicked into action to kick and scream that it's terrible, hense making the uninformed think its terrible also.
 
Eh, Windows 8 with classic shell is working great for me, all of my 3D/photo programs work no problem and it is quick, never have to even bother visiting the Metro side even on startup.
 
I've been using it a few weeks now and find it fine. There are a few new things I really like and a few changed I'm not so keen on.

As for the start menu issue, I'm not really sure what the big deal is here. I hate clutter so never have any icons on my desktop or pinned to the taskbar. So in 7 I would pin software I regularly used to the start menu. To get there I navigated to start and then clicked the appropriate shortcut, or tapped the windows key and clicked the shortcut. With metro, I do the very same. I tap the window key to open it, and click a pinned shortcut. I'm the exact same amount of button clicks away from every thing I need as I was in 7.

Other than that, to get to software I don't use so often, I just launch metro and type the the first few letters in to find it. Which is no longer than navigating through the the start menu in 7 or clicking on search and searching.

Now, the only real difference, other than the look, is that my clutter free desktop has even less clutter with the start button being removed.

I still love 7 though and understand why people feel happy to stick with it. But really feel the dislike for 8 is being blown out of proportion.
 
I also noticed that some of the metro 'apps' were pretty poor. Navigation (on a normal touchpad laptop) in the 'Photos' app was not very intuitive with almost no visual cues. In the short time we were going through it for the life of me I couldn't find any Print options when viewing a single photo, so I just fell back on the keyboard shortcut. I knew it of course, but it was something the person I was helping had never used.


I'm not sure about this because right now there is nothing on win update for me to try, but I remember there was a notification on settings menu and the same annoying message to postpone the restart etc Win7 has was present still when I was updating. don't think it's any different.

Well, in the three hours I was there we never saw the notification. In addition, on the traditional start menu it would give you and icon on the shutdown button to let you know it was pending. Initially she was having all sorts of problems, including none of the shortcuts on her desktop actually opening anything and I eventually figured out the system needed a restart as some updates needed to process.

Network and Sharing center is exactly like Win7, just right click on the network. when you click the network icon instead of the old menu, a menu in new style comes in the left side of screen full screen which I don't like either but has same amount of into, it's just larger. I guess it was necessary to have it work between both UIs.

Control Panel is in the settings menu which I wish we could customize to add more to it. it's not hard to access imo but looks like people have problem with concept of settings menu, it takes getting used to I guess. You don't need to go into Start Screen to access control panel, it being bloated or not it's nothing to do with CP access. You can actually add all the admin tool to start screen by just a check box in settings.
Yeah, you can pin whatever you want too.

Yeah, I'd imagine with enough time I'd have gotten used to Settings and explored a little more there, just threw off my work flow when all I normally needed to do was hit start and stuff like Computer and CP were options. I would likely customize it using the options you stated, but again, if looking at it from a casual user POV that really isn't a positive.


I don't think I understand the issues. you wanted Chrome in metro? I think you have to set it as default browser. Firefox doesn't have metro UI yet, it's in development.

Nope, I mean Chrome wouldn't even launch from the desktop. I reinstalled just to make sure and it did prompt for default but I wasn't looking to do that. Don't know what happened, but like I said I didn't get much of a chance to investigate. Luckily she was more keen on Firefox and it did open.

So, if she wants to run Chrome from the icon on the new metro Start Screen, does the default matter?



I think a lot of users use quick search in start menu to find what they want, it works like that here too, it's just full screen now which might break work flow for some, that's a valid point imo. Otherwise if you didn't use search before accessing everything is same as before really, you relied on shortcuts then?

Well, I think it probably bothered me because of what you stated, that it's like stepping out of the desktop work flow when it wasn't necessary before. Just feels really disjointed, though I'm sure I'd get used to it.


win8 desktop is hardly different than 7 really with added ribbon UI which I quite like.
For new UI and learning curve, casual users should look for hardware that supports win8 features with touch screen or track-pads with gesture support it's really easy for the most casual user imo which this new start screen is designed for, otherwise there is no point in upgrading for those if you can't use the new features.

New hardware - especially when the hardware they bought for 7 is not that old - isn't really an acceptable solution for many users, unfortunately.
 
I don't mind windows 8, I'd happily use if if I bought a new PC/laptop whatever that had it installed already, but I have absolutely no desire to actually purchase it and install it over my windows 7.
 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WTYet-qf1jo

This summarizes a lot of what is wrong, and no it is not bad press, it is bad design. Sorry if old.
One of this guys gripes is that he couldn't figure out how to get out of apps.

Seriously? He's meant to be a power user and reviewer of OSs and he couldn't figure out "press the window key"?

Haven't watched the rest yet as it's bed time. Will watch tomorrow. But you can't start out by saying, "...none of this is hyperbole..." and then acting like your world nearly came to an end trying to exit apps.
 
Love the start up and shut down time. but I got a fast pc with ssd so its supposed to be fast.

havent used the store or other features aside from the metro start though.
 
They should have had tutorial in the OS, these videos isn't going to help now.

Windows XP had a built interactive flash based tutorial and after the windows install it constantly notified you to pay attention to it until you did or you said you didn't want it. That was when the UI completely changed for Windows too. Now with Win8 they forgot to do anything, I guess they thought with Internet now everywhere it wouldn't matter but looks like it was needed, just 'move your mouse to every corner' isn't enough.

look at the top paid and free apps on the store, there are dozen different win8 guides and learning tools there, people are obviously having problems.
 
I find it funny that people are saying "windows 7 is too good, no reason to upgrade." are exactly the same as the people who used XP and hated Vista. While I won't move to 8 anytime soon, I find it totally ironic.
 
I find it funny that people are saying "windows 7 is too good, no reason to upgrade." are exactly the same as the people who used XP and hated Vista. While I won't move to 8 anytime soon, I find it totally ironic.

they were right then. XP was better than Vista.
 
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