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[TheGreyHulk]

According to AMD, GDDR5 Vs DDR3



Make of it what you will.

i hate when companies do this... by looking at the bar alone, you think, "the bar length diff is huge... the performance difference is huge!" but it's far from reality. You can only compare the 6470M & 6490M because they are the same chip, but the difference isn't just simply because of the diff ram types.... the 6490M runs 50-100mhz faster than the 6470M and the performance gain isn't huge. most is under 20%

gddr5 is much much better for sure than ddr3, but the graph is just one of those pet peeves of mine

 

[Polo67]

What are the chances of this being backwards compat with the Ps3 and upscales to 1080p?

 

[Xiaoki]

no im not wrong.
if durango runs only ddr3 than maybe. but it will be compensated by the ultra fast pool of esram as stated. both 360 and ps2 had the ultra fast ram and it enables them to keep up with systems with more bandwidth. 360 only has 22gb/s while ps3 has 48gb/s or so.

You only make yourself more wrong.

The PS3 having having a memory bandwidth of 48GB/s? What?!

The XDR system RAM was 25.6 and the GDDR3 VRAM was 22.4.

Where the hell did you get 48?

 

[specialguy]

i hate when companies do this... by looking at the bar alone, you think, "the bar length diff is huge... the performance difference is huge!" but it's far from reality. You can only compare the 6470M & 6490M because they are the same chip, but the difference isn't just simply because of the diff ram types.... the 6490M runs 50-100mhz faster than the 6470M and the performance gain isn't huge. most is under 20%

gddr5 is much much better for sure than ddr3, but the graph is just one of those pet peeves of mine

Plus, generic PC software isn't a good indicator of possible console performance of a part imo.

You could design a really shader heavy GPU for example, and the shaders would go unused on PC code, both because most of it's already been written, and because what hasnt has to target generic hardware.. But stick that same part in a console, and they'll be used for sure. In PC, hardware molds itself to the software. In console, it's vice versa.

It might be possible to work around low bandwidth in a console in many areas, while on a PC it'll just show up as "xx% slower" because the yardstick of pc software is unyielding.

 

[longdi]

You only make yourself more wrong.

The PS3 having having a memory bandwidth of 48GB/s? What?!

The XDR system RAM was 25.6 and the GDDR3 VRAM was 22.4.

Where the hell did you get 48?

total conventional memory width as you stated. 25.6 + 22.4.
360 is only 22.4 without the edram.

 

[fixuis]

Gddr5 sound delicious but lets talk about what would have happened if sony went with XDR2 ram. Advantages, disadvantages? Same performance, price difference etc, technical advantages, limitations?

 

[stryke]

What are the chances of this being backwards compat with the Ps3 and upscales to 1080p?

None.

 

[Mr. Fix]

Guerrilla Games (Last major game was KZ3 in early 2011)
Sucker Punch (Last major game was Infamous 2 in mid 2011)
Naughty Dog (Last major game was Uncharted 3 in late 2011)

After KZ3, I2, and UC3, I don't know what to think anymore.

 

[JordanLMiller]

Is there going to be any chance for BC?

 

[alphaNoid]

Is there going to be any chance for BC?

Probably not

 

[NBtoaster]

Is there going to be any chance for BC?

PS1 and PS2 through software emulation probably. Maybe PS3 through gakai.

 

[Konosuke]

After KZ3, I2, and UC3, I don't know what to think anymore.

Those 3 games are graphical gems and it's not like they have poor gameplay.

 

[cartman414]

An 8-core Jaguar variant? I thought Jaguar was part of the low-power APU lineup.

 

[Radec]

Wait, isn't GDDR5 a GPU RAM ?

GeForce GTX 680 2048MB GDDR5

it's gonna happen isn't it

lol. love this.

 

[params7]

That Q4 2013 release date makes me feel so giddy. Sony does not want to wait up this time, they are going to take Xbox Next head on.


All this with the Steambox too. Fucking good time for games ahead.

 

[phosphor112]

no im not wrong.
if durango runs only ddr3 than maybe. but it will be compensated by the ultra fast pool of esram as stated. both 360 and ps2 had the ultra fast ram and it enables them to keep up with systems with more bandwidth. 360 only has 22gb/s while ps3 has 48gb/s or so.
even ps2 which has much inferior gpu due to the time of its release, it had about 3.2gb/s while xbox has 6.4gb/s and it fought well though hampered by low res IQ. now imagine if ps2 had as good gpu as xbox but with 128mb of 3.2gb/s main ram, it would easily be the superior hardware. this looks like the case of ps4 vs durango.

in the end 8gb vs 4gb is a huge win for Durango developers and i also browse beyond3d, developers have stated more ram is better when the speed difference is not that great with esram in the picture. furthermore, 192gb/s is no big deal. my pc gpu has 300gb/s now and games like crysis2 still runs sluggish at certain points with only 1200p full settings.

the expectation of a more advanced mulit tasking OS seated in the background will suck a portion of the 4GB.

so no, 4GB is not enough for PS4 to compete with Durango in the same price bracket. either Sony put another 2GB or they have to market PS4 as a mid range between Wii U and Durango.

Lol, this guy.

Also, his avatar makes it even better.

Gddr5 sound delicious but lets talk about what would have happened if sony went with XDR2 ram. Advantages, disadvantages? Same performance, price difference etc, technical advantages, limitations?

XDR2 seems a lot better. Higher bit dept, faster, less power.

But the price is outrageous. Rambus charges a lot, not to mention they have to have someone make it since Rambus doesn't actually manufacturer the chips.

 

[quest]

An 8-core Jaguar variant? I thought Jaguar was part of the low-power APU lineup.

It is and it is also a small core 3.1mm at 28nm. Makes sense if they want a large APU. Those lower powered smaller CPU cores make building it much easier. Gives them room for more CUs and other things they want to include and keep TDP inline with what they need. Also with such small CPU makes it easy to add and extra one or 2 for redundancy to help with yields.

 

[Karak]

Something is missing in the Orbis and Durango specs concerning the RAM though.

Even more other things are still in the dark.

Honestly. I have a very very strong feeling 1 or the other is getting delayed. These are some complex as FUCK systems being built and couple that with any kind of yield issues. Uhg. That is my only SYSTEM worry out of anything.

 

[shinobi602]

Even more other things are still in the dark.

Honestly. I have a very very strong feeling 1 or the other is getting delayed. These are some complex as FUCK systems being built and couple that with any kind of yield issues. Uhg. That is my only SYSTEM worry out of anything.

But these guys have had years to get these things right haven't they?

Who has a bigger reason to delay?

 

[Xiaoki]

total conventional memory width as you stated. 25.6 + 22.4.
360 is only 22.4 without the edram.

Oh dear God.

Did you work for the Atari Jaguar marketing team?

 

[meta4]

Even more other things are still in the dark.

Honestly. I have a very very strong feeling 1 or the other is getting delayed. These are some complex as FUCK systems being built and couple that with any kind of yield issues. Uhg. That is my only SYSTEM worry out of anything.

As long as atleast one is announced at E3 with some demo shown I will be okay. I cant take this gen lasting any longer than it already has.

 

[quest]

Even more other things are still in the dark.

Honestly. I have a very very strong feeling 1 or the other is getting delayed. These are some complex as FUCK systems being built and couple that with any kind of yield issues. Uhg. That is my only SYSTEM worry out of anything.

I don't think either will be delayed atleast in the US. If you miss the holiday season you might as well delay a full year in the US. Launching consoles does not work in the US outside the fall season. Might see a more limited launch because of yields but they will be launched. You can launch outside the US any time of year.

 

[Karak]

As long as atleast one is announced at E3 with some demo shown I will be okay. I cant take this gen lasting any longer than it already has.

Well announced and later delayed is actually what I am worried about. Just overall yield numbers. Nothing more than a feeling of worrying. Lots of potential firsts here.

OR another RROD or YLOD.

I am super stoked. I think they are both going to be really fun.

But these guys have had years to get these things right haven't they?

Who has a bigger reason to delay?

Both. I mean not like there hasn't been success before. But MS is building what corresponds to a massive custom airliner with a bunch of untrusted engines. And the sound of it Sony is building a jet fighter with insane speed and a possibly questionable fuel tank.

Just my own worries.
And yes not the best comparisons but just what popped into my head. So fanboys don't get upset.

Make no mistakes these are top of the line people...but they are working on NEXT level stuff.

A limited launch is another thing we could see. Which would be acceptable but not ideal.

AND we could see no problem at all.

 

[iamvin22]

Well announced and later delayed is actually what I am worried about. Just overall yield numbers. Nothing more than a feeling of worrying. Lots of potential firsts here.

OR another RROD or YLOD.

I am super stoked. I think they are both going to be really fun.

it is absolutely imperative that both YLOD and RROD stay below 7 percent this new gen.

 

[JABEE]

Will PSN games like Journey or NHL 3-on-3 be backwards compatible?

 

[Karak]

Will PSN games like Journey or NHL 3-on-3 be backwards compatible?

I don't think...many expect BC. Unless its Genki which, is questionable as a service until the world catches up to the tech. Unless you haven't played the old games and don't notice the issues as much maybe?

 

[quest]

it is absolutely imperative that both YLOD and RROD stay below 7 percent this new gen.

Can't see another RROD it cost MS a billion dollars. That is a lesson that will not be forgotten. Corperate will ensure it does not happen again. That is why the use of the jaguar processors to keep TDP down. Also if MS can really pull of the SOC make cooler much easier and simple.

 

[iamvin22]

Can't see another RROD it cost MS a billion dollars. That is a lesson that will not be forgotten. Corperate will ensure it does not happen again. That is why the use of the jaguar processors to keep TDP down. Also if MS can really pull of the SOC make cooler much easier and simple.

systems will break, but it has to be kept in single digits next gen so that journalist dont have a free story to write about.

 

[Karak]

systems will break, but it has to be kept in single digits next gen so that journalist dont have a free story to write about.

Fuck N A tweet. Agreed.

 

[coldfoot]

I have a feeling that Sony only releases games on PSN that will also work on the PS4, maybe they have already compiled them for PS4 or at least ran checks to make sure it will work, at least true for the last couple of years. My bet is that most PSN games will work with PS4, even games like Bioshock 2.

Disc games, forget about it.

Also about "wasting" fast GDDR5 memory on OS functions: can't they cache it to super fast SSD? So the OS uses 1GB when not playing a game and only 256MB during a game with the other 768MB cached to SSD (should only take 3 seconds). How many more OS functions are needed anyway?

 

[longdi]

Oh dear God.

Did you work for the Atari Jaguar marketing team?

nope.
but it is well known 360 uses unified bandwidth so the system total from the gddr3 is only 22.4 for gpu + cpu
ps3 is split between xdr and gddr3 for total 48, cpu and gpu can use either pool.

 

[phosphor112]

I have a feeling that Sony only releases games on PSN that will also work on the PS4, maybe they have already compiled them for PS4 or at least ran checks to make sure it will work, at least true for the last couple of years. My bet is that most PSN games will work with PS4, even games like Bioshock 2.

Disc games, forget about it.

Also about "wasting" fast GDDR5 memory on OS functions: can't they cache it to super fast SSD? So the OS uses 1GB when not playing a game and only 256MB during a game with the other 768MB cached to SSD (should only take 3 seconds). How many more OS functions are needed anyway?

Well, for a long while we heard about flash storage being used. Not as fast as SSD, but good enough for context switching and data caching.

 

[patsu]

nope.
but it is well known 360 uses unified bandwidth so the system total from the gddr3 is only 22.4 for gpu + cpu
ps3 is split between xdr and gddr3 for total 48, cpu and gpu can use either pool.

That's a split pool setup. The behavior will be different from a unified memory setup in PS4. Adding the bandwidth in both pools together won't give you any meaningful comparison. The nature of the work may also be different.

We will have to look at the entire system to understand their performance profile. If it's apple to apple, bandwidth is important for a smooth framerate under assorted conditions (e.g., with visual effects), especially streaming. Memory size is generally good for details and scale.

 

[maximum360]

This gif always brings a smile to my face. New consoles are good too.

 

[kuroshiki]

no im not wrong.
if durango runs only ddr3 than maybe. but it will be compensated by the ultra fast pool of esram as stated. both 360 and ps2 had the ultra fast ram and it enables them to keep up with systems with more bandwidth. 360 only has 22gb/s while ps3 has 48gb/s or so.
even ps2 which has much inferior gpu due to the time of its release, it had about 3.2gb/s while xbox has 6.4gb/s and it fought well though hampered by low res IQ. now imagine if ps2 had as good gpu as xbox but with 128mb of 3.2gb/s main ram, it would easily be the superior hardware. this looks like the case of ps4 vs durango.

in the end 8gb vs 4gb is a huge win for Durango developers and i also browse beyond3d, developers have stated more ram is better when the speed difference is not that great with esram in the picture. furthermore, 192gb/s is no big deal. my pc gpu has 300gb/s now and games like crysis2 still runs sluggish at certain points with only 1200p full settings.

the expectation of a more advanced mulit tasking OS seated in the background will suck a portion of the 4GB.

so no, 4GB is not enough for PS4 to compete with Durango in the same price bracket. either Sony put another 2GB or they have to market PS4 as a mid range between Wii U and Durango.

You have no idea what you are talking about.

 

[coldfoot]

Well, for a long while we heard about flash storage being used. Not as fast as SSD, but good enough for context switching and data caching.

SSD is just flash memory with a controller, so I really meant the same thing. Since it's a given that both consoles will have some flash memory, maybe PS4 base can come with 16GB like an ipad and uses less than 1GB for the swapfile.
That'll be the $399 version and $499 will have a HDD but still retain the flash for caching purposes.

 

[stryke]

SSD is just flash memory with a controller, so I really meant the same thing. Since it's a given that both consoles will have some flash memory, maybe PS4 base can come with 16GB like an ipad and uses less than 1GB for the swapfile.
That'll be the $399 version and $499 will have a HDD but still retain the flash for caching purposes.

Since when?

 

[kuroshiki]

Since when?

Since this gen. Both X360 and PS3 had built in flash memory for firmware and OS.

 

[Phoenician_Viking]

Well announced and later delayed is actually what I am worried about. Just overall yield numbers. Nothing more than a feeling of worrying. Lots of potential firsts here.

OR another RROD or YLOD.

I am super stoked. I think they are both going to be really fun.

Both. I mean not like there hasn't been success before. But MS is building what corresponds to a massive custom airliner with a bunch of untrusted engines. And the sound of it Sony is building a jet fighter with insane speed and a possibly questionable fuel tank.

Just my own worries.
And yes not the best comparisons but just what popped into my head. So fanboys don't get upset.

Make no mistakes these are top of the line people...but they are working on NEXT level stuff.

A limited launch is another thing we could see. Which would be acceptable but not ideal.

AND we could see no problem at all.

So you have concern about Orbis on the long ran. So Sony is not future proofing Orbis. Next gen will be longer than this one so both better prepare for a very long gen.

 

[Chaos Theory]

something i really do not understand.

Sony has no intrest in OS it self. They are more into the hardware. MS is the other way around and they want their OS in systems. which is why if i recall MS was forced to go into the video game market fearing Sony to take over the home entertainment systems.


why they do not combine forces ? release a system with Sony hardware and MS OS.

wouldnt this be a win win for both ?
+ Less money on advertising.
+ more sales for the system as its the only choice available and totally dominant
+ this will lead to higher software sales for third party and less costs since they wont be developing for 2 consoles.

heck it can be even good for them and bad for customers aka charge 100$ for online per year. when customers dont have a choice but to pay if they wana play next gen systems etc.

why this fight between the 2 companies ? am i missing something ?

at the end of the day both companies are about money making. if they can make as much and more, then why not go for it ? let that be a joined venture forever.

and to be honest they need it. because sooner or later another big company will try to enter. whatever its Samsung or Apple. and then its all blood from there :/

 

[Computer]

The roomers on the specs have changed every month for 6 months now.

 

[Karak]

So you have concern about Orbis on the long ran. So Sony is not future proofing Orbis. Next gen will be longer than this one so both better prepare for a very long gen.

What...the what?

 

[patsu]

The companies are too big to share one platform. Sooner or later, they will want to move up or down. Just like Samsung moving up to compete with Apple, or Apple taking back stuff in-house to do it themselves.

 

[stryke]

So you have concern about Orbis on the long ran. So Sony is not future proofing Orbis. Next gen will be longer than this one so both better prepare for a very long gen.

Can't speak for Karak but that would not be my takeaway...

EDIT: Yep, he's confused as I am.

EDIT2:

The roomers on the specs have changed every month for 6 months now.

That has to be on purpose...

 

[Equus Bellator Apex]

something i really do not understand.

Sony has no intrest in OS it self. They are more into the hardware. MS is the other way around and they want their OS in systems. which is why if i recall MS was forced to go into the video game market fearing Sony to take over the home entertainment systems.


why they do not combine forces ? release a system with Sony hardware and MS OS.

wouldnt this be a win win for both ?
+ Less money on advertising.
+ more sales for the system as its the only choice available and totally dominant
+ this will lead to higher software sales for third party and less costs since they wont be developing for 2 consoles.

heck it can be even good for them and bad for customers aka charge 100$ for online per year. when customers dont have a choice but to pay if they wana play next gen systems etc.

why this fight between the 2 companies ? am i missing something ?

at the end of the day both companies are about money making. if they can make as much and more, then why not go for it ? let that be a joined venture forever.

and to be honest they need it. because sooner or later another big company will try to enter. whatever its Samsung or Apple. and then its all blood from there :/

-anti trust

-quality of games with would go down

 

[Tagg9]

something i really do not understand.

Sony has no intrest in OS it self. They are more into the hardware. MS is the other way around and they want their OS in systems. which is why if i recall MS was forced to go into the video game market fearing Sony to take over the home entertainment systems.


why they do not combine forces ? release a system with Sony hardware and MS OS.

wouldnt this be a win win for both ?
+ Less money on advertising.
+ more sales for the system as its the only choice available and totally dominant
+ this will lead to higher software sales for third party and less costs since they wont be developing for 2 consoles.

heck it can be even good for them and bad for customers aka charge 100$ for online per year. when customers dont have a choice but to pay if they wana play next gen systems etc.

why this fight between the 2 companies ? am i missing something ?

at the end of the day both companies are about money making. if they can make as much and more, then why not go for it ? let that be a joined venture forever.

and to be honest they need it. because sooner or later another big company will try to enter. whatever its Samsung or Apple. and then its all blood from there :/

This idea is overkill, but I certainly think that the two companies should collude and at least make sure their systems are comparable technology wise.

As it is, they are both motivated to outdo the other one, which will end badly for both (one will have superior technology and thus cost more to produce, losing the company more money per unit, while the other company will have a less powerful console and likely lose market share because of it in the long run).

 

[pieatorium]

That has to be on purpose...

ITS NAHT A ROOMA

 

[stryke]

something i really do not understand.

Sony has no intrest in OS it self. They are more into the hardware. MS is the other way around and they want their OS in systems. which is why if i recall MS was forced to go into the video game market fearing Sony to take over the home entertainment systems.


why they do not combine forces ? release a system with Sony hardware and MS OS.

wouldnt this be a win win for both ?
+ Less money on advertising.
+ more sales for the system as its the only choice available and totally dominant
+ this will lead to higher software sales for third party and less costs since they wont be developing for 2 consoles.

heck it can be even good for them and bad for customers aka charge 100$ for online per year. when customers dont have a choice but to pay if they wana play next gen systems etc.

why this fight between the 2 companies ? am i missing something ?

at the end of the day both companies are about money making. if they can make as much and more, then why not go for it ? let that be a joined venture forever.

and to be honest they need it. because sooner or later another big company will try to enter. whatever its Samsung or Apple. and then its all blood from there :/

Why don't Samsung and Apple join together?
Why don't Sharp and Panasonic join together?
Why don't Acer and Toshiba join together?
Why don't Honda and Ferrari join together?
Why don't Thermaltake and Corsair join together?

 

[Chaos Theory]

-anti trust

-quality of games with would go down

anti trust where ? if its a 50 50 % agreement. and both securing their own IP as gaming studios like Hahlo for MS and that profit is for MS only while GT for Sony etc.

and i will not agree on you with quality of games will go down. there will be so many racing games or fighting games on that system to the point if the game isnt good enough, it wont sell. just like how it was with the ps2 when it was a dominant.

if anything, its the other way around. for developers to focus on developing for one system will reduce the costs alot and make them do better games and more games per year / years than what they are doing right now since there wont be any need to source developers or work extra time on porting the game but making new games.

 

[James Sawyer Ford]

Orbis with 4 GB of RAM will run circles around 8 GB of DDR3 + eSRAM.

That's a significant pool of insanely fast RAM. Agni's philosophy was only running on less than 2 GB of GDDR5. Now imagine having twice as much.

This, coupled with the GPU that's rumored to be significantly more powerful than Durango, and Sony has gone with a very proficient, powerful, and simple design that I don't think Microsoft is quite matching.

As I said before, I think third parties will just work with a lower baseline so both consoles have decent parity, but exclusives will show a pretty large difference IMHO if both specs are to be believed.