Melchiah
Member
Oh hell, I just realized we're probably going see another generation of DF holding a flag with X on it.
VGLeaks: PlayStation 4 "Orbis" Roadmap
- Thread starter Baki
- Start date
Oh hell, I just realized we're probably going see another generation of DF holding a flag with X on it.
I believe that person is saying there is a higher theoretical maximum amount of variation for an environment with 8 gb versus 4 gb. A quick teleport to a new environment, or a fast 180 turn, that sort of thing. While 60 gb per second is still pretty good, it is certainly no 190 gb. MS better have a compelling architecture with these blitters and edram.
Dark_AnNiaLatOr
Member
What did bandwidth do for PS2 games that wasn't possible in the other consoles? Games like GoW?
Chuck Norris
Banned
ZOE2, MGS2 rain scenes, SUPERIOR sparks in Burnout 3
I remember Black from Criterion was said to be pretty bandwidth heavy (I think it was mentioned in one of interviews in Eurogamer?).
And indeed - looking at the game it is sometimes getting more dense than Killzone 2 with fog / smoke / light-shafts / explosions, etc.:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-5_84JsjxE
What Bayonetta is doing now.
Ninja Moomin
Banned
There's a small chance he might die in a fire! chin up!
About the memory... 'Twice as much ram' is going to sound a lot better to average joe who knows 'more memory is better' - years of PC marketing has taught him that.
Sony will need a decisive difference that can be seen easily. 'Fast ram' means nothing to the average guy.
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
As long as there is no Dubstep in the commercial, they're okay.
Can Crusher
Banned
It's not that simple. And obviously, we are taking conclusions without knowing the memory configurations.
Even if it ends up being like the rumors say, 4 GB GDDR5 on PS4 and 8 GB of DDR3 for Durango, we are missing half the picture. What's the amount of RAM reserved for OS on both consoles, how much EDRAM/ESRAM is included. Memory controllers? Etc
The day can come and Durango will come with a huge bottleneck out of the gate, or Orbis doesn't have enough memory to keep up.
It is premature to understand just where these consoles will outperform each other, but considering that supposedly Durango is going to be the more capable of the consoles, I don't believe that it will come to the market with such a big bottleneck. (Low BW)
"Faster console" does though. Whether they will, or could, actually claim that, considering it's only related to memory bandwidth (from what we understand so far), I don't know.
From the raw specs? Probably the PS4 due to having half the cores at twice the speed. But that's not the whole story, I'll tell you first hand no one rivals Microsofts debugging and coding tools, there is still no offical debug tool for the PS3 GPU as far as I know, game developers got fed up and made their own unofficial one actually. PIX is a godsend.
edit:
This developer did a good job explaining it.
http://gamingbolt.com/developer-exp...oping-for-each-console-ps3-being-the-hardest#!
endlessflood
Member
I hadn't heard that, I thought all we had to go on so far were the incomplete specs that have been discussed.
What was the source?
ShockingAlberto January 2012
specialguy
Banned
Do you want them to lie and say the PS3 version is better?
Never knew it was that bad. Hopefully the developer input translates to better tools for developers. Parity should be achievable from the get go if Sony doesn't fuck up.
"Despite the PS4/Xbox 720 versions of Battlefield 4 looking on par with the PC version at it's highest settings, we will have to give the PS3 version the nod for delivering an uncompromising cinematic experience."
Far more pro 360 than some other websites is all I'll say..
Though I did like the gushing bayonetta review and the final fantasy 360 review too.
Most neutral website is probably http://gamedifferences.com/
btw, if you wanted to know the running tally:
http://misterslimm.wordpress.com/360-vs-ps3/xbox-360-vs-ps3-head-to-head-face-off-results/
Can Crusher
Banned
Well people with inside info. You can look for it in the Chinese Durango thread.
GenericUser
Member
4GB is not enough. The next elder scrolls will destroy the PS4.
Because their engine is terrible? Plenty of other open-world games run just fine where Skyrim doesn't, they even admitted it's engine issues. Develop the new one from the ground up on a completely new engine and it'd be fine.
Other open world games aren't doing what Skyrim is, either.
Far more pro 360 than some other websites is all I'll say..
Though I did like the gushing bayonetta review and the final fantasy 360 review too.
Most neutral website is probably http://gamedifferences.com/
btw, if you wanted to know the running tally:
http://misterslimm.wordpress.com/360-vs-ps3/xbox-360-vs-ps3-head-to-head-face-off-results/
DF is the most trusted. Of course they seem pro-360 when the majority of multiplats are better on 360.
GenericUser
Member
where did they say THAT? And by the way its easy to see that ps3 skyrim's problems are a result of the mem pool config of the console.
develop for the lowest common denominator? xbox player gonna be mad, pc players gonna throw stones.
honestly, If the xbox really has 8 GB, sony has to catch up. I do not trust the "faster ram" fairytale. Years of PC gaming told me that more ram is indefinitely more valueable then fast ram.
They had an entire gen to do that though.
wat
Yes because the RAM being used in a console is comparable to the common RAM you use for your computer.
:lol
What the hell do you talking about? Even with the double of effective RAM, Durango can't do anything more of Orbis because it has half bandwith, did you seen Wii U how works? Follow your logic WiiU should destroy ps3/360 games.
Morrowind (Xbox) -> Skyrim (360) = 8x jump in RAM
512MB->4GB = 8x jump in RAM
Skyrim Consoles = 0.5GB
Skyrim PC min requirement = 2.5GB RAM
=> 5x inflation in memory requirements on Bethesda's games between PC and console
If next gen elder scrolls is to be playable on more than a handful of player's PCs in the next two or three years, they cannot really target more than 8GB on the minimum end in PC land. They're probably more likely to target 4-5GB IMO.
In any of those scenarios (4-5GB or 8-10GB), even with a significant improvement in their memory usage on PCs, a 4GB console would be fine. And would be fine also from a historical 'next gen leap' POV for Elder Scrolls.
sweetvar26
Member
I know it is GDDR5 and all but please more RAM Sony, just more RAM.
Make it happen.
On another note, the next gen talk since this CES, has been increasing considerably.
I think around E3, the announcements are imminent at this point with their own media events for Sony and Microsoft respectively.
Make it happen.
On another note, the next gen talk since this CES, has been increasing considerably.
I think around E3, the announcements are imminent at this point with their own media events for Sony and Microsoft respectively.
Nice.
Wii U has a weaker CPU and not enough EDRAM to completely blow the HD Twins out the water though.
Believe, if it will be 4 GB, will be lucky. GDDR 5 ram is incredibly expensive
More GDDR5 RAM? I thought that putting more RAM then what we are speculating would greatly increase the complexity and cost of the actual boards themselves in the console or am I mistaken?
BloodMoney
Banned
Skyrims engine is awful. There can be no question that it is poorly optimized. It doesnt look jaw dropping, yet it floods vram with over 1.5+ GB of textures at 1920x1200
Dont get me started on the animations. I would call Skyrim Oblivion 2.0.
sweetvar26
Member
Here is a post from another forum.
puresoul02 said:
Early Design, please check above picture carefully
System Block = Cheap Low BW + EdRAM + Moderate GPU
Application Block = High SPeed BW + > Medium End GPU
People somehow always talking about the System Block
System Block as Early design = 48 ALU = 768SP = 1.2TF
System Block can be 2-4 Core, Low CPU clock
Application Block
Application Block = 32 x 2 = 64 ALu = 1024 SP = 2x (512 GPU) = 1.8 TF ~ 2.4TF
Application block = 8 Core CPU
*) App Block require split the GPU into Dual GPU setup to balance the L2
*) GPU running at hald the CPU clock, to balance that also related to L2, split the GPU into 2 GPU core per die
*)The base CLock is CPU/2 is rather high, so the GPU clocked 1.1GHz - 1.5Ghz, that's why the raw TF can 1.8 -2.4TF depend on CPU core Clock
*)The Rumored SPec what we got actually mixed up of App Block and System Block, The System Block dont have to be 8 core, it is the App Block that have to be 8 Core, so people mixed up 8 core from App block + GPU from System Block then the confusion spread, especially on neogaf.
RUmored Xbox next < PS4 it is true, because people keep talking the System Block
but as lately suggest there is special unit, it is actually there, if u look the patent, the app block it is the one done the heavy task, App block = Special Unit = Basic Troughput Engine, can be Anyhting for Heavy task, it is CPU-GPU combined, can not be said as standard GPU
so Xbox next rather weak if only sees as System Block 1.2TF.
real Xbox next = System + App Block > 3TF even at earlier design Based on old Leaked Yukon architecture
Xbox lite = just removing the APP block, then u got cheap XBox SOC, can be integrated even into TV set or other device
More GDDR5 is better. I mean, why not?
If only Krazy Ken was still around.
The memory system is actually very RAM intensive, depending on what you do. And it remembers everything that you did. Even knocking over a cup in that random cave.
I know perfectly. This is why orbis/durango will be comparable with 4 GB/8 GB. There is no way Durango keeps the bandwith of the future Orbis without compromises.
thehypocrite
Member
Are you a joking here? I doubt you know what you're talking about. The amount of RAM is just 1 part of the performance within a system. Go to the RAM thread and educate yourself about it.
sweetvar26
Member
Just as the poster above mentioned it, it does increase the costs significantly.
If he were there, Sony would either walk away with another console that will turn the tide around.
Sony would either get things all right and good or it will just go bankrupt with the failure of PS4.
"Crazy Ken" indeed.
Midnight Phoenix
Member
What program or game eat 4gb space on your PC? I prefer capacity limit over bandwidth, because you can use some tricks to make files smaller, but you cannot increase bandwidth.
NemesisPrime
Banned
What is new?
The average joe won't know anything about the system specs other than hard drive size and pack-ins since those will be the only things advertised on the box. The confusion will be, like we've already seen in this thread, among the enthusiasts that are vaguely aware of the differences but not what they actually mean.
seventynine
Member
If the PS3 version is better, they will say as much. Where it gets muddy is the editorialising or shifting goal posts that sometimes happens.
Look at Sony's line of embedded products, they definitely have more experience building OS' to the bare metal and thus more restricted environments. I think 4GB of quicker ram is better, what's the point of filling 8GB if you can't flush out the assets quickly enough - so you probably have a higher percentage of stagnation for more memory pages. People compare these systems to PC's but they're still more comparable to embedded systems, so memory setup of these systems are more flexible than memory setups on PCs for instance.
"Overall, the PS3 version has the better framerate, textures, and image quality. However, we're going to give it to the 360 because it loaded 1 second faster."
OT but, no, is not because 360 multiplat tend to be better. Leadbetter is an undeniable fan of 360 hardware, it's quite evident his enthusiasm when he talks of it.
"GarthVaderUK
Banned
Edit: might be better in the RAM thread.