Lance Armstrong plans to admit doping to Oprah (USA Today)

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xenist said:
All these journalists that started coming out of the wooodwork with this self-pitying bullshit should go fucking retire because they are clearly unfit. "He told me so and I trusted him?" Fuck you! You're supposed to be journalists. Being skeptical is your fucking job. "Ooooh, he was such a liar! Poor little old me!" Fuck you! You were either in on it, acting as his fucking PR team and lapping up the crumbs falling from his table or you were complete idiots. In either case you should be hiding under a table somewhere and shutting your fucking mouths until this is over.

Spare us your bullshit. None of you deserve any leeway or consideration.
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Wow, hahaha.

I understand your sentiment though. It does kind of seem like "I'm washing my hands off this right now!"
 
xenist said:
All these journalists that started coming out of the wooodwork with this self-pitying bullshit should go fucking retire because they are clearly unfit. "He told me so and I trusted him?" Fuck you! You're supposed to be journalists. Being skeptical is your fucking job. "Ooooh, he was such a liar! Poor little old me!" Fuck you! You were either in on it, acting as his fucking PR team and lapping up the crumbs falling from his table or you were complete idiots. In either case you should be hiding under a table somewhere and shutting your fucking mouths until this is over.

Spare us your bullshit. None of you deserve any leeway or consideration.
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Jesus Christ calm down.

CorvoSol said:
Well I mean, my dad is a big cycling fan and Lance was kinda an inspiration for him to get out on a bike and stay healthy. It's kinda upsetting to find out that people like that are cheating.
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I never knew much about this guy or cycling, and I'm kind of glad I didn't. This whole thing is such a mess. Its actually hard for me to believe it took them that long to finally catch him cheating. After baseball, and this, and the cheating track and field people from way back, I wonder how many other sports are dripping with PEDs.
 
Cipherr said:
Jesus Christ calm down.
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The sight of rats abandoning a sinking ship is one of my triggers. And these people were a fundamental part of the "Circle the wagons! Those French wimps are attacking our Lance!" mindset that enabled this to go for so long. They took part either directly or indirectly in every case of him smearing and ruining anyone trying to turn him in. They should be asking forgiveness from those that got hurt while they went around blindly defending Armstrong not writing pieces about how bad they feel for themselves.
 
xenist said:
The sight of rats abandoning a sinking ship is one of my triggers. And these people were a fundamental part of the "Circle the wagons! Those French wimps are attacking our Lance!" mindset that enabled this to go for so long. They took part either directly or indirectly in every case of him smearing and ruining anyone trying to turn him in. They should be asking forgiveness from those that got hurt while they went around blindly defending Armstrong not writing pieces about how bad they feel for themselves.
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As someone who does follow cycling, I agree with you 100%. These are the same people who even after USADA's report were calling it a "witch hunt" and calling for USADA to lose funding for how poorly they treated Lance. Hell, his people got Congress involved! Now, they're hurt?. BS. And in that article he acts like he never heard of Emma O'Reilly or Betsy Andreu. The information was always there but I'm sure none of these journalists ever bothered talking to them.
 
All these scumbag, fuck you, fuck off attitudes around the internet is a laughable and corny.

He cheated at sports. It will be ok, people.
 
jordan0386 said:
All these scumbag, fuck you, fuck off attitudes around the internet is a laughable and corny.

He cheated at sports. It will be ok, people.
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*sigh*
For the umpteenth time it isn't just about him having used drugs. It's his behaviour in organizing drug use and especially in covering it up. The man destroyed lives for his own personal glory.
 
jordan0386 said:
All these scumbag, fuck you, fuck off attitudes around the internet is a laughable and corny.

He cheated at sports. It will be ok, people.
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I agree. The hyperbole and hand-wringing over this is at insane levels. He cheated at sport and then used the glory from the success to fund largely great things.

One of the biggest mainstream overreactions I can ever remember.
 
I think the bigger question for me is his legacy as a cyclist. It's garbage, obviously, because he is a cheater...

However, the vast majority were doping. Was he the best of a dirty generation? Was he the dirtiest of a dirty generation? Do we just write the EPO era off?

Eddie Mercx got popped for doping 3 times in his career and he is a god.
 
Dave Meltzer said:
No one is gonna put him in jail and he's rich as fuck. Plus he's still gonna be seen as a hero. Dude is probably totally chill.
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Not necessarily. I'm not too well versed on the world of cycling, but he made several statements under oath and almost certainly perjured himself. the only question is if he will admit to perjury before the statute of limitations expires. I doubt he'll go to prison, but still... perjury's a crime.

Also, you can bet he's going to get the shit sued out of him given all those libel and defamation cases were settled on false evidence. If I'm understanding this correctly, that's one of the main reasons why he's coming forward now in the first place; he's soon going to be considerably less wealthy, and needs the USADA to lift his ban so he can compete again and make some money.
 
jordan0386 said:
Happens everyday in all forms of business.

Im just not gonna lose my cool about it, as I see some people are doing across the webs.
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Do you really come to this topic just for the single purpose of delivering "I am cool than all of you guys!" sentiment to all of us?

God...frey Jones said:
I agree. The hyperbole and hand-wringing over this is at insane levels. He cheated at sport and then used the glory from the success to fund largely great things.

One of the biggest mainstream overreactions I can ever remember.
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Read this so you at least have a clue about how Livestrong is often used to bolster his image/pockets rather than for purely pursuing good cause.

I still can't wrap my head behind this sentiment that apparently it's okay to garner yourself a very significant amount of richness through cheating, bullying, and criminal acts so long as you give some amount of your money to charity. I mean, what the hell...?
 
Jordan and frey jones; Do either of you even realize how many lives Armstrong destroyed (or attempted too).

Both of you come across as completely misinformed.
 
Laughing Banana said:
Do you really come to this topic just for the single purpose of delivering "I am cool than all of you guys!" sentiment to all of us?



Read this so you at least have a clue about how Livestrong is often used to bolster his image/pockets rather than for purely pursuing good cause.

I still can't wrap my head behind this sentiment that apparently it's okay to garner yourself a very significant amount of richness through cheating, bullying, and criminal acts so long as you give some amount of your money to charity. I mean, what the hell...?
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No, I didnt. I watched the interview and shared a thought earlier.
 
bjb said:
Jordan and frey jones; Do either of you even realize how many lives Armstrong destroyed (or attempted too).

Both of you come across as completely misinformed.
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Who lost their jobs whistle blowing on Lance?

Not being a dick, im just not aware.
 
jordan0386 said:
No, I didnt. I watched the interview and shared a thought earlier.
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Look, I am not going to force you to change your thought about this or anything but people going crazy about this towards him is exactly what this cheater rightfully deserve. He built his empire of millions of dollars based on lies, deceit, and hypocrisy.

jordan0386 said:
Who lost their jobs whistle blowing on Lance?

Not being a dick, im just not aware.
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Then maybe I suggest you to inform yourself more before acting all indignant about why people are acting with "scumbag, fuck you fuck off attitudes" towards this issue.
 
jordan0386 said:
All these scumbag, fuck you, fuck off attitudes around the internet is a laughable and corny.

He cheated at sports. It will be ok, people.
Click to expand...

God...frey Jones said:
I agree. The hyperbole and hand-wringing over this is at insane levels. He cheated at sport and then used the glory from the success to fund largely great things.

One of the biggest mainstream overreactions I can ever remember.
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He also destroyed lives, destroyed careers, attacked and defamed the innocent, lied to a Federal Grand Jury, and banked millions of dollars for it all.

Spare us all the "I'm need to think I'm cooler than everyone else who thinks he's a piece of shit because I need to get the attention that I didn't get from mom from people in the internet instead" devil's advocate counter-position.
 
Cipherr said:
I never knew much about this guy or cycling, and I'm kind of glad I didn't. This whole thing is such a mess. Its actually hard for me to believe it took them that long to finally catch him cheating. After baseball, and this, and the cheating track and field people from way back, I wonder how many other sports are dripping with PEDs.
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Visualise a sliding scale of sports, from most physically demanding to least. Note that when I say physically demanding, I'm talking in crude terms; peak power output and sustained power output are the sorts of criterion we're talking here. So you'll have weightlifting, strongman, sprinting clustered towards one end of the line, table tennis, darts and golf clustered towards the other. A realistic estimate suggests that PED use would scale upwards from a low baseline (say, 0 to 20%) to nearly 100% as you go along this line; not linearly, but exponentially.

As it stands now, the drugs are too effective and prevalent and the tests too easy to circumvent to stop athletes using them. It may seem like a post-hoc justification but "everyone else is doing them" is often the reality of the situation. I would suggest that a largely oblivious public and a media that is either equally ignorant or incompetent are not the best judges of what constitutes a level playing field in such a situation. As a result, I'm often quite dismayed at how judgemental many are (and how quick they are to be so) of athletes whose situations they don't really comprehend. You're much less likely to be disappointed if you don't put your entertainers on a pedestal, especially when many of their feats truly are inhuman. It's a bit like being furious upon finding out that The Beatles did drugs. A healthier and less hysterical attitude is probably a good first step if one wants to improve sports regulation.

All that said, Lance seems like a shit.
 
A More Normal Bird said:
As it stands now, the drugs are too effective and prevalent and the tests too easy to circumvent to stop athletes using them. It may seem like a post-hoc justification but "everyone else is doing them" is often the reality of the situation. I would suggest that a largely oblivious public and a media that is either equally ignorant or incompetent are not the best judges of what constitutes a level playing field in such a situation. As a result, I'm often quite dismayed at how judgemental many are (and how quick they are to be so) of athletes whose situations they don't really comprehend. You're much less likely to be disappointed if you don't put your entertainers on a pedestal, especially when many of their feats truly are inhuman. It's a bit like being furious upon finding out that The Beatles did drugs. A healthier and less hysterical attitude is probably a good first step if one wants to improve sports regulation.

All that said, Lance seems like a shit.
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Especially in a sport like cycling, where functional threshold of power is everything. Everyone was doping in the 90s-00s because EPO, transfusions, etc. are so effective in increase FTP.

I guess without an effective truth and reconciliation effort, we will never know if the level playing field existed in terms of what percentage of the peleton was doping.

T&R is a big deal. Without immunity, no one is going to come forward... Operacion Puerto is still half-assed in certain respects, because no one will truly come clean, even with Italian court cases looming/ongoing.
 
God...frey Jones said:
I agree. The hyperbole and hand-wringing over this is at insane levels. He cheated at sport and then used the glory from the success to fund largely great things.

One of the biggest mainstream overreactions I can ever remember.
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he also ruined a lot of people's lives. Also he sued people who were telling the truth. Also he committed perjury in court.

But yea, continue to focus on the people who are rightfully angry at him
 
I'm only reading quotes, but, is he acknowledging now that he was a cheat?

However, he said at the time he did not believe what he was doing was cheating.

"I looked up the definition of cheat. The definition of cheat is to gain an advantage over a rival or foe," Armstrong said. "I didn't do that. I viewed it as a level playing field."
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That comment will infuriate clean riders.
 
Lance is a cheater and a liar. He has disgraced himself and all he ever stood for. He has dragged so many people through living hell, just so he could win everything and make lots of money..

He deserves to get some jailtime and he deserves to lose a lot of the money he cheated himself to.

People saying "it´s only sports he cheated in, thats not bad" need to wake up and see the damage his abuse has done to ALOT of people around the world. We are not talking fans that are disappointed, we are talking people who lost money, credibility, work and alot more.
The doping is not the thing that is bothering people, it´s his attitude towards it, and the way he was controlling everything surrounding it.

An apology will never do justice to the stuff he has done..-
 
He has earned a fortune by cheating, lying and destroying other peoples lives/careers.

Now he'll probably try to earn even more by writing a book about how he did it.

I hope he gets sued by everyone who might have a case against him.
 
Elvin Atombender said:
He has earned a fortune by cheating, lying and destroying other peoples lives/careers.

Now he'll probably try to earn even more by writing a book about how he did it.

I hope he gets sued by everyone who might have a case against him.
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Unfortunately he'll still be rich even after all the lawsuits. When it's all over he'll write that book and option the movie rights to get even richer.
 
PlatinumGamesJP said:
I think the bigger question for me is his legacy as a cyclist. It's garbage, obviously, because he is a cheater...

However, the vast majority were doping. Was he the best of a dirty generation? Was he the dirtiest of a dirty generation? Do we just write the EPO era off?

Eddie Mercx got popped for doping 3 times in his career and he is a god.
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From an interview of a specialized journalist I heard this morning, doping reached a new level in the late 80s with blood-based techniques. Doping is always cheating, but in the past it only "helped" athletes that already were exceptional. Blood doping is said to be able to turn a regular athlete into a champion.
The journalist said "If you ask me if Merckx would have been a great champion without doping, I will answer yes, without any doubt. If you ask me the same question about Armstrong, I will say I can't know for sure."
 
Is there a reason why he came out and said it now? Blackmail or definite proof got out? He's kept it pretty low-key so far IMO. He squashed all the accusations pretty well I thought.


Worst part about this is the cancer fund will diminish. Stupid spiteful people will hopefully donate to something else instead of just not donating at all.
 
jordan0386 said:
All these scumbag, fuck you, fuck off attitudes around the internet is a laughable and corny.

He cheated at sports. It will be ok, people.
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Read this and get a clue: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/more-sports/zone-lance-armstrong-bully-downfall-article-1.1188512

It's never been just about the cheating.

Alx said:
The journalist said "If you ask me if Merckx would have been a great champion without doping, I will answer yes, without any doubt. If you ask me the same question about Armstrong, I will say I can't know for sure."
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Merckx was legendary. You get the feeling he could have done it even without full team support.
 
Alx said:
From an interview of a specialized journalist I heard this morning, doping reached a new level in the late 80s with blood-based techniques. Doping is always cheating, but in the past it only "helped" athletes that already were exceptional. Blood doping is said to be able to turn a regular athlete into a champion.
The journalist said "If you ask me if Merckx would have been a great champion without doping, I will answer yes, without any doubt. If you ask me the same question about Armstrong, I will say I can't know for sure."
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I think it's reasonable to assume Armstrong would have been a great athlete without doping, but I very much doubt he could have won a grand tour without doping in a clean field. Armstrong has more of a time trial physique, not exactly ideal in tours that are decided by mountain stages. Maybe during a relatively light tour in terms of climbs, like last year's, but aside from that? Nah.
 
Cipherr said:
I never knew much about this guy or cycling, and I'm kind of glad I didn't. This whole thing is such a mess. Its actually hard for me to believe it took them that long to finally catch him cheating. After baseball, and this, and the cheating track and field people from way back, I wonder how many other sports are dripping with PEDs.
Click to expand...

I'de almost be willing to bet that every wrastler in the WWE is on steroids. The acto...I mean wrestlers need to look big for the show, and steroids could help them reach their vein popping Hercules physique faster. Only difference is, if we found out all WWE wrestlers were on steroids, no one would care!
 
Not really sure what's worse here. The fact Lance lied about not using PEDs, the fact that he "won" all a bronze at the olympics, all those tour de frances and reaped all that money/sponsorship deals based on a facade or the fact that he let down every single young cyclist, athlete, cancer patient who looked up to him for support and motivation.

All that coming from the person who, amidst the accusations, had the nerve to tweet an image like this.

rSSdL.jpg
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I really can't see why anyone should forgive him. You came clean, good for you! You've cleared your conscience. Now return every single medal/trophy that you won while you were doping and just quietly retire somewhere out of sight. Gosh, looking back between 1999 and 2005, everyone was like "to think this man recovered from cancer to become a champion is somewhat of a miracle". If only they knew back then...
 
Kabouter said:
I think it's reasonable to assume Armstrong would have been a great athlete without doping, but I very much doubt he could have won a grand tour without doping in a clean field. Armstrong has more of a time trial physique, not exactly ideal in tours that are decided by mountain stages. Maybe during a relatively light tour in terms of climbs, like last year's, but aside from that? Nah.
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He doesn't have the required lung capacity as a result of chemo & radiotherapy. He would have to be truly exceptional to compete. This is why he used blood transfusions - it boosts you up so much.

EDIT: Sorry for double post.
 
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