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[Terbinator]

Lol wtf

Quick question though, who collects royalties on blu-ray drives now?

The BDA.

 

[Baki]

It'll be either GCN or GCN2, not Cape Verde I'm sure.

What is the price discrepancy between Sonys GPU and MS? Which machine looks cheaper to build? Why doesn't MS go for the same GPU as Sony?

 

[Chuck Norris]

With the whole RAM situation, I get the feeling we have Crytek engine design philosophy vs Naughty Dog engine design philosophy. Django has possibly been influenced by Crytek who want as much RAM as possible, perhaps even at the expense of speed. Their large level sizes are probably better using large quantities of RAM, while Naughty Dog typical has linear, high detailed levels that would benefit from quick RAM

 

[ThreeSixty]

It's cool that leaks like this are coming out; but in terms of this information specifically; couldn't this entire "leak" be generated by just merging all of the available information and the other leaks together? I don't really see anything new here. It feels like multiple websites are just publishing "leak stories" with the same information they're seeing on other sites. Everything I'm reading here I could have sworn I have already read in earlier threads.

 

[PapaJustify]

Must say I am really intrigued if the Disc Drive really is Blu-ray or something proprietary.
Blu-ray would make more sense, I just cannot imagine Microsoft licensing from Sony.

EDIT:

Also interesting: HDMI-IN and Wi-Fi Direct!

 

[i-Lo]

I didn't see that, I thought you meant "fix'd"

From raw peak performance we have:

720:
CPU: ~100 GFLOPS

360:
CPU: 115 GFLOPS

(someone correct me if I'm wrong)

Welcome to 8 years later ~15 GigaFlops less XD

Lol wtf

Quick question though, who collects royalties on blu-ray drives now?

Members of blu ray consortium.

 

[fluffydelusions]

Is this your first time seeing a chinner post? lol

Chinner post...never heard of it...Puts that in some American for me

 

[PaulLFC]

Everyone ignoring the RAM, 4 Gig vs 8 Gig is f*cking huge in my eyes.

Difference between loading a whole level in memory, variation in textures, resolution of the textures.

Nobody is "ignoring" the RAM, just most people aren't looking at it as simply as "8>4 so Durango is better!"

 

[MikeE21286]

I haven't been following the orbis leaks...how do they compare?

general consensus is all over the place

2 camps:

1. Orbis > Durango >>>WiiU

2. Orbis = Duragno

I think more people are in camp 1 than camp 2

 

[CrunchinJelly]

think Google TV - connect your cable box/DVR into the xbox, Xbox is your main TV output, always on.

So you can watch live TV, get notifications from friends overlaid, jump right into a multiplayer game.

or view/search across all your media (DVR recordings, live TV, Netflix, Hulu plus etc) in one hit, and immediately start watching from wherever it is.

If they want it to be always on there better be a damn low power mode which will spin the fans right down.

 

[big_erk]

How close ? I am asking this question because I like Nintendo games but still, I wanna play the rest of the industry's output also. And I don't really want to buy two or three consoles that each cost 400+ $.

My uneducated guess, close enough that downported games will be possible if 3rd parties are so inclined, but big enough that one will not be mistaken for the other.

 

[Zabka]

Tbh this seems more like a summarization of what we already "knew" with some buzzwords thrown in?

They made a diagram too! Don't forget the diagram. Now it's set in stone.

 

[tw1164]

wonder what the northbridge bandwidth is? Seems like only the GPU has direct access to the esram, CPU has to go through northbridge - likewise for CPU access to GPU.



matches the rumours of HDMI pass through with potential to overlay XBox graphics on your DVR for instance.

This stuff has me worried about the nextbox continuing support of media center. I'm going to be sad if I have to keep my 360 plugged in just as an extender.

 

[dark_prinny]

think Google TV - connect your cable box/DVR into the xbox, Xbox is your main TV output, always on.

So you can watch live TV, get notifications from friends overlaid, jump right into a multiplayer game.

or view/search across all your media (DVR recordings, live TV, Netflix, Hulu plus etc) in one hit, and immediately start watching from wherever it is.

Ok, that makes sense.

Thanks!

 

[quest]

2MB cache per CU is pants on head.

If you look at the Trinity vs. FX equivalent in games, the extra cache the FX's have helps massively.

No there are 2 blocks of 4 jaguar processors. Each block gets 2megs of cache just like in the temash that we saw at CES. From this rumor there is no significant mods to the jaguar cores to help get its FPU performance up to do things like physics. Looks like the 12 CUs will have to not only do graphics but assist the 6 usable jaguar cores in games do physics and other heavy FPU loads.

 

[acm2000]

Must say I am really intrigued if the Disc Drive really is Blu-ray or something proprietary.

Blu-ray would make more sense, I just cannot imagine Microsoft licensing from Sony.

afaik ms gets money from bluray too, since they own one of the codecs

 

[gofreak]

So has anyone said what this "move engine" thing is?

They don't say, but I assume it is what talk alluded to as a 'special sauce' block that would help moving data from eDRAM to memory or vice versa, to perhaps make managing the use of eDRAM easier for devs.

 

[Can Crusher]

Must say I am really intrigued if the Disc Drive really is Blu-ray or something proprietary.

Blu-ray would make more sense, I just cannot imagine Microsoft licensing from Sony.

These posts... Blu Ray isn't Sony's. About licensing, they both license from each other.

 

[x-Lundz-x]

I love all these leaks!

 

[clav]

It's cool that leaks like this are coming out; but in terms of this information specifically; couldn't this entire "leak" be generated by just merging all of the available information and the other leaks together? I don't really see anything new here. It feels like multiple websites are just publishing "leak stories" with the same information they're seeing on other sites. Everything I'm reading here I could have sworn I have already read in earlier threads.

Yeah I don't think these specs are real either.

IBM processors are PPC based, not x64, unless MS has some wizard to make backwards compatibility magical.

 

[Maximilian E.]

So, it seems that we have a case of Bruce Lee (Durango) vs Arnold Schwarznegger (Orbis)

Technique vs brute force..

Or?

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

I'm talking about the actual discs themselves.

Well obviously media prices will decrease over time; aside from 50GB being plenty of headroom for the foreseeable future. In case more is needed, I think 2 discs would probably be preferable either way.

 

[moneyman232]

Anyone starting to feel like this might be a shorter gen this time around...I'm thinking we'll see another gen by 2018, I also expect 4k TV to be much more affordable then as well.

The Durango, if these specs are true, will no doubt be a win8 powered set top box, nice features but I just want quality titles. A stripped down gaming sku would be great for many people who already have DVR setups, and I very seriously doubt the tv recording won't be behind a Microsoft pay wall.

 

[shinra-bansho]

No there are 2 blocks of 4 jaguar processors. Each block gets 2megs of cache just like in the temash that we saw at CES. From this rumor there is no significant mods to the jaguar cores to help get its FPU performance up to do things like physics. Looks like the 12 CUs will have to not only do graphics but assist the 6 usable jaguar cores in games do physics and other heavy FPU loads.

Isn't one of the purple blocks supposed to help with this...?

 

[CitizenCope]

My wifes going to love watching HGTV and seeing "Hunguy69 wants you to join a party". Looks like that's where we are heading.

 

[Commanche Raisin Toast]

It's the same, common abbreviation for "x86-64".

beat me to it.

pretty much all PC processors have been x64 (x86-x64) for years now. it's nothing new, and PS4 will have one as well. i'm sure that won't stop some people from thinking the new consoles are somehow more advanced in that respect.

i think it's kind of cute that they threw that in there. unless it was meant to clarify that it WON'T be an old school 32-bit only CPU. perhaps some people were getting confused by hearing the "x86" moniker thrown around so much with these rumors.

 

[iMax]

Microsoft isn't a supporting company for the BDA, so at this present moment in time, I'd expect it to be a proprietary format. However, I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft announces full BDA/Blu-ray support alongside Durango.

 

[Fried Food]

It's cool that leaks like this are coming out; but in terms of this information specifically; couldn't this entire "leak" be generated by just merging all of the available information and the other leaks together? I don't really see anything new here. It feels like multiple websites are just publishing "leak stories" with the same information they're seeing on other sites. Everything I'm reading here I could have sworn I have already read in earlier threads.

Two choices. 1. These are the real specs. 2. They are fake.

I'm going to believe they are real.

 

[Baki]

Wait which is better. Rumored Orbis or Durango?

Orbis? But wait for final specs. Basically it's PS360 all over again. Sorry Nintendo.

 

[Globox_82]

so what turned out to be "secret cum bucket"?

 

[BloodMoney]

It's the same, common abbreviation for "x86-64".

No its not.
x86 = 32 bit
x64 = 64 bit

 

[Chuck Norris]

It's cool that leaks like this are coming out; but in terms of this information specifically; couldn't this entire "leak" be generated by just merging all of the available information and the other leaks together? I don't really see anything new here. It feels like multiple websites are just publishing "leak stories" with the same information they're seeing on other sites. Everything I'm reading here I could have sworn I have already read in earlier threads.

VGleaks has been providing much of this information to begin with, so if we are going to take them on their word they are a credible source

 

[gofreak]

What is the price discrepancy between Sonys GPU and MS? Which machine looks cheaper to build? Why doesn't MS go for the same GPU as Sony?

Sony's GPU looks more expensive than Microsoft's.

Factoring in the eSRAM on Microsoft's, however, colours the comparison a bit. Not sure then.

I think the reason MS doesn't go for 18 CUs is because of some combination of 1) cost and 2) they've figured that much beyond 12 CUs won't typically gain much performance with 68GB/s going into the top of the pipe. I think MS started with a 'memory-first' design that informed many aspects of the rest of the system.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

So, it seems that we have a case of Bruce Lee (Durango) vs Arnold Schwarznegger (Orbis)

Technique vs brute force..

Or?

No. I don't know where all this "efficency vs brute force" is coming from, but those chips are quite similar.

No its not.
x86 = 32 bit
x65 = 64 bit

x64 is still using the x86 instruction set.

 

[Jadedx]

general consensus is all over the place

2 camps:

1. Orbis > Durango >>>WiiU

2. Orbis = Duragno

I think more people are in camp 1 than camp 2

There were people saying Durango > Oribs just last week. In one of the leak threads.

 

[Psychotext]

I'm surprised that's not a 100gb blu-ray drive. I'm fully expecting Sony to go with BDXL

 

[charsace]

This whole drivel about efficency and raw power is just nonsense. What does that even mean? Of course devs will fully utilize Sonys hardware.

What do you base this on? Things like physics and networking will see massive gains when designed to run on multiple threads. Its not nonsense. Multithreaded programming is relatively new so people are still learning ways to take advantage of it. But it isn't nonsense. Figuring out ways to constantly have hardware working isn't nonsense.

 

[PapaJustify]

These posts... Blu Ray isn't Sony's. About licensing, they both license from each other.

I know it's the BDA. But Sony is leading contributor. And I assume they get a majority of the shares. But that is just a guess.

 

[i-Lo]

so what turned out to be "secret cum bucket"?

Aegeis would love to tell you that as he now envies MS programmers who have figuratively bathed in it ;P

 

[DieH@rd]

Orbis? But wait for final specs. Basically it's PS360 all over again.

Only power-wize. Both architectures will enable much easier creation of games [especially multi-platform ones].

Sorry Nintendo.

 

[meta4]

Kaz on launching the PS4 before MS launches theirs. Lol at this rate we will never get next gen consoles.

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/01...ke-first-move?abthid=50fd5eed8edfc2245c00002e

 

[Evolution_1ne]

general consensus is all over the place

2 camps:

1. Orbis > Durango >>>WiiU

2. Orbis = Duragno

I think more people are in camp 1 than camp 2

so basically this gen if the ps3 had more efficient RAM and no bottlenecks

 

[Rad-]

If the hardware overall is similar to each other (like two PC's one slower, one faster, but both with AMD CPU/GPU), then wouldn't scaling (up and down) be quite "easy" ?

And by scaling up I mean adding extra effects/textures/resolution/AA or whatever can be done. Just like how a PC game works across differing hardware.

Hardware last gen was pretty different hence porting/development parity issues.

It doesn't really matter whether it's easy or not. They won't do that (on purpose) because it will affect software sales when another version is noticeably better than the other.

3rd party will definitely scale down to the lesser specs, whichever it ends up being. And for this reason I seriously doubt there is going to be more than 5% difference in performance between the 2 systems because the more powerful one would have a lot of "wasted" power (= wasted money) for anything not 1st party title.

 

[Kenka]

My uneducated guess, close enough that downported games will be possible if 3rd parties are so inclined, but big enough that one will not be mistaken for the other.

If your intuition proves right, it still is a meh situation for me. Filthy WiiU controller that sucks half of the consumer budget.

 

[Elios83]

Quite frankly I'm kinda disappointed if confirmed.
The GPU is weak, the DDR3 is on a 256 bit bus with just 68GB/s of bandwidth, the embedded memory is just 32MB and the bandwidth is not impressive as well (the PS2 embedded RAM had 48GB/s bandwidth, here we're talking about just double that after 13 years?). Putting everything in a single APU is definetly having a negative impact.
Also 50GB Blu Ray while Sony will probably go with BDXL to feature 4k compatibility also it might be possible that Microsoft won't offer Blu Ray movies playback for free.
The only impressive thing is the memory capacity at 8GB but that will be used also for Microsoft non gaming ambitions.

 

[Reiko]

I don't really think we will see many deferred rendering engines on the Durango.

Is this a serious post?

 

[dbztrk]

I'm a little disappointed in the Durango. I think the ESRAM should be 64MB and we still don't know how much of the main ram the OS is gonna eat up.

 

[IJoel]

Very interesting stuff. Definitely excited about the prospect of games for both this and the PS4 HW. I do wonder if the embedded RAM will contain any specialized HW to perform ops like MSAA/Alpha Blending/etc., similar to the Xenos EDRAM.

On an entirely different note, controlling my cable box with Kinect/Voice controls seems like a great idea!

 

[GHG]

Interesting that it'll have 16 threads. Now lets see if Devs actually start making use of this and if it transitions over to PC gaming as well. I suspect that those with 8 core AMD CPU's in their gaming PC may well be sitting pretty watching all of this.

Having said that, the small amount of EDRAM will not bode well for image quality.

 

[Kenka]

so what turned out to be "secret cum bucket"?

This man.