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[derFeef]

People need to stop preparing their purchasing decision around the perceived power of the system since they are likely going to be to close to call. Get excited for the games

That's for sure. Sony first party, Remedy and MS's secret games excite me.

 

[digita1alchemy]

All I can think about is how expensive these things are going to be.

 

[davious88]

Very cool. Man this is going to be the craziest E3 ever.

Yup, and looks like it will be Ms press conference 1st, followed by Sony's.

 

[JaggedSac]

Now that the entire world knows about Durango's 'magic sauce', what prevents Sony from using it too?

We don't really know what it is yet. Just some vague descriptions.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

The ones who would really know and understand everything are also generally the ones who don't leak, at least not directly.

A really great explanation of how these systems work would identify the person as part of a decidedly small group of people.

Throwing a few tidbits through someone you know wouldn't.

Yeah, that makes more sense. In the end, its their job on the line over a few people rofling for shits and giggles over the internet.

 

[AuthenticM]

Has VGleaks said when they are going to spill the beans on the PS4 ? Is it tonight, later this week, next week ? Should we expect something different from the Eurogamer leak ?

 

[Ashes]

Earlier today:

On paper a 6950 outdoes a 7850 if you look at specs like teraflops etc. but would you want a 6950 or 7850?

If Microsoft has something really really special from the generation ahead, then maybe, it will compete and even suggesting that we are comparing apples to apples is misleading.

Follow the links for 2.5 tf v 1.76.. tf

generational jumps... major architectural changes...

 

[spwolf]

I dont quite understand how people are adding ESRAM and DDR3 to get combined throughput... I mean you are still limited to DDR3 for that 8 GB for memory. And you cant use data from it faster than DDR3 runs.

 

[Razgreez]

Someone posted this earlier but it really isn't saying much here. No flops don't mean everything but there are alot of other areas where PS4 seems to have an advantage. Bandwidth, latency, ROPS, etc.

Until i get my answer i'd hold out on that one

I dont quite understand how people are adding ESRAM and DDR3 to get combined throughput... I mean you are still limited to DDR3 for that 8 GB for memory. And you cant use data from it faster than DDR3 runs.

You don't always need to. Not all tasks require the same amount of bandwidth. It's all about efficiency

 

[aegies]

Hey Karak ,aegies and others!
I have been wondering about something that I can not get an answer to. (That is where you guys come in)

Is it possible that Microsoft could release different SKU. By different I mean hardware wise.
Think of it like a mid and high end PC. Both can run and play Crysis 3 but it different settings.

One with ultra and one with high graphic performance.

The question is: Could MS do that? is it doable? Is it possible ?

I would appreciate your answer.
Pardon my English

Not in the way you're suggesting.

 

[Karak]

That's for sure. Sony first party, Remedy and MS's secret games excite me.

Remedy for me as well. I am stoked to see what they can do with more power.

 

[Horse Armour]

All I can think about is how expensive these things are going to be.

Not very. I'd guess 2 SKUs at $300 and $400 like the 360.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

That's for sure. Sony first party, Remedy and MS's secret games excite me.

Alan Wake 2 baby!

 

[PhatSaqs]

 

[metareferential]

So is the old dual-gpu rumour officially dead?

That was something.

 

[abadguy]

Remedy for me as well. I am stoked to see what they can do with more power.

Allan Wake at launch would make me very happy. Weren't they said to be working on a new IP as well?

 

[Jadedx]

Hey Karak ,aegies and others!
I have been wondering about something that I can not get an answer to. (That is where you guys come in)

Is it possible that Microsoft could release different SKU. By different I mean hardware wise.
Think of it like a mid and high end PC. Both can run and play Crysis 3 but it different settings.

One with ultra and one with high graphic performance.

The question is: Could MS do that? is it doable? Is it possible ?

I would appreciate your answer.
Pardon my English

That would confuse the marketplace, some people would buy the cheaper one thinking it could play the same as the more expensive one.

 

[Durante]

All I can think about is how expensive these things are going to be.

Compared to 360 and PS3 at launch, these systems seem somewhat low-end.

 

[specialguy]

Now that the entire world knows about Durango's 'magic sauce', what prevents Sony from using it too?

Again, these system designs are years in the making. Unless you want PS4 delayed 3 years for a complete overhaul dont even worry about it.

Also the DMA engines appear fundamental to the whole durango layout. Fast GDDR5 probably doesnt even need them.

That and yeah, MS may very well have some lawyerly stuff on these since they appear pretty custom. Possibly. But the points above are the real practical reasons.

They may not even be that great. As I keep saying, it's early.

 

[gaming_noob]

Now that the entire world knows about Durango's 'magic sauce', what prevents Sony from using it too?

I'm guessing budget. Sony has the more expensive GDDR5 RAM. But who knows.

Allan Wake at launch would make me very happy. Weren't they said to be working on a new IP as well?

They were a good 2 years late on the first one. I don't have faith that Remedy can release a top notch game on time for launch.

 

[Karak]

Allan Wake at launch would make me very happy. Weren't they said to be working on a new IP as well?

I don't recall reading anything but they may have been. It could have just been Alan Wake 2 as well. But I don't know why Alan Wake resonated with me so much but it did.

 

[pr0cs]

People need to stop preparing their purchasing decision around the perceived power of the system since they are likely going to be to close to call. Get excited for the games

People who base their purchasing decision on 'perceived power' had no interest in the 'other' system to begin with, their choice was made before any information was made available.

 

[Proelite]

 

[scently]

Now that the entire world knows about Durango's 'magic sauce', what prevents Sony from using it too?

Except nobody know what they actually are. Those that do know (proelite, thuway, and karak) don't understand it other than its really good apparently, and atleast the one person that do understand what it is (lherre), is a developer and is under NDA and as such can't say anything.

 

[thiswasavailable]

What were the FLOP ratings of the 360 and PS3 GPUs btw?

I think I know the answer, but especially on the PS3 side I'd prefer to ask people who followed that more closely.

It was advertised at 400 GFLOPS.
Xenos 240 GFLOPS.

No direct comparison because some of RSX was considered fixed function and not fully programmable. Xenos was unified, EDRAM did stuff and bandwidth allowed those units to stretch out more, also transparency and high bandwidth tasks were generally easier on Xenos.

I think you could go in circles all day on which was "better". The games speak to the design differences. (Bayonetta)

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

People who base their purchasing decision on 'perceived power' had no interest in the 'other' system to begin with, their choice was made before any information was made available.

Good point.

I don't recall reading anything but they may have been. It could have just been Alan Wake 2 as well. But I don't know why Alan Wake resonated with me so much but it did.

Because it was clearly a brilliant game and premise hamstrung by a graphical ceiling that is no longer there for them. It should be glorious

 

[GarthVaderUK]

I didn't miss it this time, lol.

 

[Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew]

Hey Karak ,aegies and others!
I have been wondering about something that I can not get an answer to. (That is where you guys come in)

Is it possible that Microsoft could release different SKU. By different I mean hardware wise.
Think of it like a mid and high end PC. Both can run and play Crysis 3 but it different settings.

One with ultra and one with high graphic performance.

The question is: Could MS do that? is it doable? Is it possible ?

I would appreciate your answer.
Pardon my English

Doable? Yes. Possible? Yes. Will MS do it? No. No console maker would ever do it unless it's a PC like "Steambox".

 

[derFeef]

?

 

[Proelite]

Now that the entire world knows about Durango's 'magic sauce', what prevents Sony from using it too?

Lawyers and they can't shoe horn something like that in without redesigning the whole system.

 

[Rolf NB]

What were the FLOP ratings of the 360 and PS3 GPUs btw?

I think I know the answer, but especially on the PS3 side I'd prefer to ask people who followed that more closely.

Should be 192 SP MADDs per clock in the pixel shaders, like G70. If we count each as two FLOPs (like seems to be the mode of the recent Durango quotes), that's 192GFLOPs/s. Plus whatever the vertex units contribute.

edit: wait ... it's 500MHz, right?

 

[gofreak]

Now that the entire world knows about Durango's 'magic sauce', what prevents Sony from using it too?

It depends what the 'data move engines' are. Not everything in there might be relevant to a memory setup like Orbis's.

The audio/video stuff....there's nothing unusual in that. Sony will be using their own accelerators for that stuff also. They apparently have their own additional hw units doing other stuff also.

Each company will use the silicon they think is most appropriate for their designs.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

I didn't miss it this time, lol.

Spill...

 

[Jadedx]

Alan Wake 2 baby!

More excited for Black Tusk, MGS Victoria, and Rare's next gen games.

 

[PopcornMegaphone]

People who base their purchasing decision on 'perceived power' had no interest in the 'other' system to begin with, their choice was made before any information was made available.

So true.

 

[Nibel]

Alan Wake 2 baby!

Broce pls

Good games only

 

[Moral Panic]

Why ESRAM so slow? Wouldn't it be cheaper and faster to throw 256MB GDDR5? Or is it too big/complicated? Seems silly to complicate the architecture with 32MB only for it to be less than twice as fast as the large pool. $100 video cards have 1GB GDDR5 so it can't be that expensive

 

[Horse Armour]

Lawyers and they can't shoe horn something like that in without redesigning the whole system.

Yep. At this point the only thing that will change is clockspeed. Cores, architecture, CUs, DSPs, magic sauce blocks are all locked down for both systems.

 

[Glorified G]

Nope, no amount of optimisation will bring you what you saw in those demos. Both Sony and especially MS have said goodbye to high end console gaming that would be on the same level the 360 was in 2005.

360 came out 4 years after xbox. Durango is coming out 8 years after 360. high end hardware in 2013 isn't needed for a big traditional leap simply because this gen has been so long.

 

[meta4]

More excited for Black Tusk, MGS Victoria, and Rare's next gen games.

What are those studios?

 

[deanos]

Lawyers and they can't shoe horn something like that in without redesigning the whole system.

can't? didn't sony shoehorn the RSX?

 

[Horse Armour]

People have been ignoring the 6x speed blu ray drive. Isn't that relatively worse than even the PS3's BD drive which massively hampered the console?

 

[Dreamgazer]

It seems like a certain

Spoiler

hallucinating

livejournal blogger is heavily promoting the "mutli-version" xbox idea.

*sigh*

 

[Durante]

Why ESRAM so slow? Wouldn't it be cheaper and faster to throw 256MB GDDR5? Or is it too big/complicated? Seems silly to complicate the architecture with 32MB only for it to be less than twice as fast as the large pool. $100 video cards have 1GB GDDR5 so it can't be that expensive

You can't have such a low amount of GDDR5 with that bandwidth. Also, the cost of adding a separate external memory bus is far higher than adding embedded memory. Especially later on in the life of the system.

 

[Karma]

So Microsoft somehow has 8 GBs RAM running with bandwidth of 170 GB/sec?

 

[aegies]

Looking at that VGleaks diagram again, I think they fucked up some f the custom hardware stuff. Specifically, there's a hardware block that they don't describe, pertaining to... well. I don't want to get anybody in trouble.

 

[Ashes]

Devs talk to each other already.

 

[Kagari]

can't? didn't sony shoehorn the RSX?

RSX was a downgrade.

 

[abadguy]

What are those studios?

New first party studios MS has set up along side 343 in the past couple of years, Black Tusk was formerly MS Vancouver.

 

[SneakyStephan]

09/21/2012:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=42380331&postcount=158




I wish post history went back to 2011! You're welcome, though, Horse Armour

In regards to dev kits often showing more powerful components than their retail consoles, have a look at this post:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=39521583&highlight=#post39521583

+100 to StevieP's credibility and -500 to thuway who'se authoritative arrogant demeanor already didn't instill much confidence.