Yeah, this. I would love to have an interview with Sakurai and ask him what the true thought process was for putting it (tripping) into the game.
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- Thread starter El Sloth
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Yeah, this. I would love to have an interview with Sakurai and ask him what the true thought process was for putting it (tripping) into the game.
Professor Beef
Banned
The hardcore scene has kept the game alive for the past decade.
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I think it's about a bit more than just the core's perception. Normal people can smell if something is wrong too even if they can't articulate it and Brawl just feels kinda muddy whenever I talk to anyone about the two. There are lots of examples of IP growing immensely due to word of mouth and great quality in specific entries. Halo 2, Resident Evil 4, Smash Melee, Devil May Cry 3 and The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion come to mind. The common theme among these is that they each built a great foundation for their successors (Brawl, RE5, DMC4, Halo 3 and Skyrim all saw increased sales/better initial reception) and they went about it without alienating segments of an audience like Brawl did. Some of these were already built on a great first impression/foundation(Halo CE, Smash 64, DMC) to be fair. Contrast that with games like DMC4/RE5 where mixed reception and questionable design choices lead to scepticism/apathy in future entries(DmC and RE6) and I have to wonder how Smash 4 might be received if Sakurai wants to alienate people like those games did. Remember that Capcom felt the hit. Anything is possible and I think it'd be a big mistake to assume that only the core would be annoyed by tripping and the overly controlling attitude of a single man.
About a 33% attach rate. Not bad at all, I think. How many games have had that sort of attach rate on a console? That'd be an interesting thing to look up. I know MKWii is one and maybe NSMBWii too. I bet Double Dash was something similar.
Rice-Eater
Member
I haven't been keeping a close eye on things, but I do come in to check once in a while. It looked like one of those Smash games was a runaway winner. And now somehow SK has catapulted to a huge lead because of VA's doing some kind of fund raising promotion? There is no way there are that many SK players. This really does feel like a ton of members of the FGC is combining there forces to keep Smash out. Oh wellz, it's for a good cause regardless of how it's being funded.
Professor Beef
Banned
I want to know where all these people were when Skullgirls first came out.
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An interesting little thing I did during the tournaments for SG was that I would record the numbers and a link with brackets/tweets as proof for situations like these.
Texas Showdown
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36745962&postcount=141
28
Powerup 2012
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=36955511&postcount=235
40+
UFGT8
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38061674&postcount=603
93
Civil War
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37386972&postcount=282
40-64
Toryuken 2012
???
Final Round XIV
???
CEO 2012
???
ECT 2012
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=38734636&postcount=2089
52
Evo 2012
102
Skullgirls sold something near 100k so far. Skullgirls was sometimes matching or just below by 20-30% in terms of raw numbers before EVO even though the number of people who bought games like MvC3/SFxT easily surpassed Skullgirls even at launch(8x for Mahvel and 2.5-3x for SFxT). That means that in order to keep up a larger percentage of Skullgirls players had to be participating in these tournaments. SG ain't special either... this could easily apply to KOF or P4A which got great numbers lead up to and at EVO. If you go by the math here does it really surprise you that SG players are dedicated?
Plus... I didn't see a single "When's Mahvel?" at all during the donation drive. You know a real Capcom fan can't go five minutes without saying that in stream chat. 
They could simply make an option to turn tripping and wavedashing on and off for the next gme, and keep the devs' favorite as the default, doesn't sound like rocket science to implement, it already happens with things like items...
toddhunter
Member
If they add in all those things to the point of being options, they need to spend a lot of time thinking about them carefully and balancing it, otherwise what is the point?
They might get lucky and accidentally create a viable and competitive game, but that is different from the amount of work required for them to actually intend to do so.
Given the percentage of the total sales that would actually care and the lack of drive from the top I doubt the devs will either.
But what they could do is just build a good game rather than caring about which side plays it the most. If it's a good game and isn't built to be anti ANYTHING, it'll find its way both for competitive players AND casual players.
That's why I don't get what the fuck Sakurai was thinking with Brawl. Tripping is so anti-competitive. It didn't benefit anyone, it wasn't a "funny" mechanic. If you had some control over it, maybe it would have been okay, but you don't have any control over it. It even makes one or two stages slightly worse (the stages with ice on them, ice increases the % chance to trip). It goes beyond tripping as well but I've gone over that spiel already in this thread; tripping is just the prime example of what the motivation was behind making Brawl what it is today.
This is what Smash 64 was. It was a good damn game. It was fun for everybody, anybody who wanted to play it for laughs, anybody who wanted to play it for fun, and anybody who wanted to play it seriously.
Brawl isn't like that, it's the most divisive title in the series.
....Smash?
I think there's a good segment of folks who are fans of the SG art/presentation, but they aren't necessarily fans of the gameplay. This is pretty much the universal sentiment among my friends.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Hence, $50 for a voicemail
waiting for the patch?
SloaneRisette
Member
Basically.
I like the game, won't mind it winning, but would like Melee to win more. Definitely seems like the voice actress $50 voicemail shenanigans were a huge driving force in them taking such a huge lead.
But hey, all's fair in fighting games and war.
I like the game, won't mind it winning, but would like Melee to win more. Definitely seems like the voice actress $50 voicemail shenanigans were a huge driving force in them taking such a huge lead.
But hey, all's fair in fighting games and war.
You going this year?
I'm planning on bringing a setup so I can play games in my room.
I actually think the art style was a big net negative, unfortunately.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Playing League of Legends probably.
I think it's lame the voice actors rallied outside fanbases to vote for something they don't care about just to win.(defeats the purpose of "player's choice" as much as something like a company donating to their game)
but whatever. It's all for a good cause.
Ragingnight
Member
if outside fanbase is willing to watch evo stream then its win win. Though i do prefer smash due to its own dedicated scene that will highly integrate itself to EVO if EVO were to accept them.
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True
I'd have to check the stream, but I could swear that the counter had already gotten to 12-13k by the time the VA messages were mentioned iirc.
Do you know why this is happening? Apparently some folks in the Melee scene were reaching out to league of legends people themselves(I think it was mentioned in streams or something because I didn't see it on smashboards) and it sparked the idea in Mike's head on stream. I was watching this live. Also, folks on the Smashboards were contemplating linking to reddit. Don't know what became of that. It was funny how some folks were really worried about the idea blowing up in their faces though lol. Reddit must be a real two faced kind of place.
Nice assumption
Got some proof?
toddhunter
Member
I don't think making it a "good" game for casual and competitive players is anywhere near as easy as all that. I hear you on taking out things that intentionally limit one group, but the alternative is to just make the game, release it and see what happens.
In this case, on the one hand the smash community are hoping they get a viable game more or less by accident, on the other hand the devs are also risking their game becoming known as a "hardcore" experience which will alienate the casual fans away from the franchise.
If I were in their shoes I'd probably be taking the safe option too and making sure it is as casual as hell with no ifs and butts about it. Smash fans might argue long and hard that it is a "fighting game" and not a "party game" but this is exactly the type of scenario that could result in a huge drop in sales.
Funny, I'm the opposite. The gameplay might not be perfect, but it has always looked solid enough to me. I just never purchased it because the art/presentation just couldn't be less appealing.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Hope this is the last time they do any kind of vote to decide events like this then.
Just give it to a game that has people that want to play.
Just give it to a game that has people that want to play.
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They both have this. It just kinda escalated into a sort of cold war at this point. It probably could have gone worse, I think.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Do you know why this is happening? Apparently some folks in the Melee scene were reaching out to league of legends people themselves and it sparked the idea in Mike's head on stream. I was watching this live. Also, folks on the Smashboards were contemplating linking to reddit. Don't know what became of that. It was funny how some folks were really worried about the idea blowing up in their faces though lol. Reddit must be a real two faced kind of place.
Honestly, I don't even mind that as much
Since that's still the player's being proactive, rather than the people that worked on the games just posting on twitter or something. People who have far more influence than regular guys playing videogames
This whole thing has become stupid because of it though.
toddhunter
Member
It has raised 50k+ and counting for charity.
Sure they could have alternative methods like make people pre-register for the tournament and then picking the game with the most players.
But it is hard to argue that some good can't come of this. At the end of the day it is just an extra video game at EVO.
yup. I'll prob be bringing some kind of setup as well.
gotta throw my tobal 2 side tourney!
and yes, I donated to SG. One stream (Skullgirls) was people having fun for charity and cutting loose, the smash stream was 3 dudes that might as well been talking about world domination and not fighting game events or charities. They are so concerned with a chance for "streetcred" that it makes them all look too desperate.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Yeah they should have got the voice of Captain Falcon.
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Yeah like I said it's for charity so whatever. Don't know what I'm tripping over it for
I'm just gonna be playing AE anyways
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Eh, I'm not gonna complain. The Salty Cupcakes stream went from the usual 50-60 to 1300 and the number of tweets outnumbers those of Melee by 5-1. I watched the counter go up slowly throughout the night and people have been putting in money however they can even if it leaves them with a temporarily empty wallet for the week on the SG side. People on both sides are putting in work and the results are great.
That or the guy who says "Meleeeeeeeeeeeeee".
That would be amazing.
Those smash guys are serious business. Guys in the SRK Skullgirls thread were impressed by their dedication to say the least.
Well it was a podcast that was already originally scheduled on the date they were going to have an episode which just so happened to be like a week after the player's choice stuff started. So what do you expect? And all three-four people live in completely different states/cities from each other. If you actually care about the scene, it was really good discussion however and as lax as can be.
I don't think people would be any more willing to donate even if they were playing the game... which would mean less interaction with the viewers watching. =\
Smashers don't have connections to anyone who worked on the game (this includes VAs) like Skullgirls players do. Bit unfair comparison.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
They could have prank called Charles Martinet
I don't doubt their seriousness, it was evident by the tone of their podcast stream.
Didn't say anything specific about voice actors. I was talking about the tone, design and overall approach that the SG team took for their stream, which obviously resonated with people not even interested in the gameplay of SG.
edit: damn people hate on Guilty Gear?!? thanksobama.gif
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
Just $100 and the voice of Mario will recite your favorite Naughty By Nature song.
Professor Beef
Banned
Yep.
*sigh* At least it isn't Guilty Gear. I can sleep well with that, at least.
A Pretty Panda
fuckin' called it, man
5. Acceptance "It's going to be okay."; "I can't fight it, I may as well prepare for it."
Professor Beef
Banned
I don't even remember going through the other stages!
...besides Anger, anyways.
Eh? And how are they supposed to know that?
I think that voting -via donations- is an amazing idea AND seeing the developer doing all these stuff for their game and fans is incredible.
redmetal86
Member
that would be amazing
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Extreme example: "Hey Skullgirls [and Smash] won, but we're limiting the tournament
Will people rage and demand for their donations back?
toddhunter
Member
I could see the smash community being pretty outraged...but they also seem to get upset when a bird flies over so that goes without saying.
I imagine the skullgirls community would be pretty upset too. Finding 12 more players at such a short notice wouldn't be easy.
With the charity angle, I doubt he'll cap it.
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Smashers will rage so hard that it will make their last EVO scandal look like a joke. The trolls will be right about Skullgirls not being able to get more than 50 people at EVO.
:^P
Oh you
Professor Beef
Banned
Oh snap.
