Thats why no one can afford an Iphone at 600, or a PC at 1000.....brilliant!
VGleaks: Orbis Unveiled! [Updated]
- Thread starter ekim
- Start date
Thats why no one can afford an Iphone at 600, or a PC at 1000.....brilliant!
Omega my man I like you.
The thing is its now possible to put something much more powerful in the box, and someone else will..
Now imagine what coding to the metal on a 5GFlops machine.....thats what should be worrying MS and Sony.
They already are exciting even if they provide less power than 680. In both rumored consoles everything is tied to get better efficiency which is key for better graphic.
Right now most interesting for me is 4CU for Orbis CPU. Posibility of things like hair jnd cloth physic in almost every game is amazing.
How is that most efficient when you can sink tens or even hundreds of millions of dollars into expensive art assets in games that people ultimately might not want to play? On PS3 making showcases that ended up being flops (eg. Heavenly Sword) was probably still acceptable, but pushing Orbis to the limit and praying the game is profitable might not be the smartest thing to do.
Well, if my ~700 GFLOPS laptop GPU with only 67 GB/s can run the Crysis 3 MP beta at 35+ FPS, at 1440x900, everything medium and SMAA... I now expect PS4 with a 1.4~1.8TF GPU and ~175 GB/s to easily hit 1080p@30FPS maxed or almost. (VRAM usage was around 1.1GB too)
Right?
similar gpu (7850) can run Crysis 2 maxed out at 1080p with quite a bit above 30 fps, I imagine 3 is quite a bit more demanding, it should be achievable though.
edit: on second thought http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=47036426&postcount=363 I'm not really sure :S
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
And I'm sure Samsung or whoever is going to magic first party exclusive developers full of the industry's top talent to harness those flops out of their anus? All the while selling an $800 console on the promise of "maybe someone will get round to using this power!"/perhaps a PC is what you actually wanted to buy sir.
Can Crusher
Banned
With the amount of time developers have been working on next gen games, these arguments about whether this is a big enough jump or not will be settled come E3.
It will be a very fair representation of what you can expect from these consoles.
It will be a very fair representation of what you can expect from these consoles.
Boss Man
Member
I know that no matter how many times that it is said and/or demonstrated, it won't stop many people from thinking this way...but I'll say it anyway:
Consoles are not effectively gaming PCs in a small box. A PC is not a games console, and a games console is not a PC. People are talking about the RAM in these machines like their imagining a PC with that same amount of RAM, and that is a clear indicator of what they're capable of. Do you have a PC with 512MB of RAM that can run Uncharted 2?
There is a whole lot more going on here from a hardware perspective, but people simply refuse to understand that a PC is never dedicating all of its resources to games. Since that point won't get across, I'll mention one that is probably even more important: the software perspective. Dedicated machines allow for a lot of things to happen. Your $2000 PC may be leaps and bounds more powerful than Orbis and Durango combined, but how much of it is being used if you're simply playing PS3/360 games on it at higher settings? If a million people owned your exact PC, next-gen would have started a long time ago. But they don't, and the games that you are playing are not developed for that benchmark.
Most of the games you are playing are not being designed around PC limitations, they are designed around PS3/360 limitations.
Soon, they will be designed around Orbis/Durango limitations.
That's a huge difference, and how it compares to high-end PC specs is really irrelevant.
Consoles are not effectively gaming PCs in a small box. A PC is not a games console, and a games console is not a PC. People are talking about the RAM in these machines like their imagining a PC with that same amount of RAM, and that is a clear indicator of what they're capable of. Do you have a PC with 512MB of RAM that can run Uncharted 2?
There is a whole lot more going on here from a hardware perspective, but people simply refuse to understand that a PC is never dedicating all of its resources to games. Since that point won't get across, I'll mention one that is probably even more important: the software perspective. Dedicated machines allow for a lot of things to happen. Your $2000 PC may be leaps and bounds more powerful than Orbis and Durango combined, but how much of it is being used if you're simply playing PS3/360 games on it at higher settings? If a million people owned your exact PC, next-gen would have started a long time ago. But they don't, and the games that you are playing are not developed for that benchmark.
Most of the games you are playing are not being designed around PC limitations, they are designed around PS3/360 limitations.
Soon, they will be designed around Orbis/Durango limitations.
That's a huge difference, and how it compares to high-end PC specs is really irrelevant.
Yeah but not so sure the average Joe actually cares. I`m afraid they care more about experiences like the Oculus Rift/something completely new wich demands serious power. Now someone will step up and see this, too bad its not Sony.
AltogetherAndrews
Banned
If someone had only told Sony that to succeed in the console race all you need is lots of power under the hood.
In my PC sits SLI 680x2
Cant believe I could afford one though, because it sounds like no one has more than 399 at their disposal
The Omega Man
Member
I think we will see some big gap already between average game dev with pc in mind or techs/assets from this gen, and magical tricks from big first party that will look like something unbelievable.
And that's the key i think. Basically, the first party that will impress the more at E3 will give a big advantage to one console.
To my understanding the standard GCN CU is as follows:
16 ALUs per vecter SIMD
4 vecter SIMDs
16KB cache
1 scalar ALU
48KB cache (16KB plus 32KB) shared amongst 4 adjacent CUs
No idea of the latencies
8 GB for the OS...
What's even funnier is when you read the posts in this thread when people was saying that we will be lucky if we even get 2GB of Ram in Next Gen Consoles
Crytek wants 8GB of RAM in next-gen consoles
NeoGaf lol
phosphor112
Banned
I was just wondering since the tech is already out, I was hoping someone had done some figures. It's hard to say something is better at Cell regarding SIMD operations when we have no information on how well it can do them.
Found a presentation talking about the ALU's and such. Still looking through it now.
http://amddevcentral.com/afds/assets/presentations/2620_final.pdf
Yup and not one thousand usb ports and some new and exotic disc drive (blu-ray)
They could also have thought twice about reinventing the wheel with Cell...then it would have eaten the 360 for dinner
The Abominable Snowman
Member
So, is Sony finally throwing away the "Razor Blade" model that they brought to the gaming space?
It seems so. At least so far.
It seems so. At least so far.
Psyhic is preatty big deal in overall picture. Better explosions and ton of debris, destruction of buildings, better driving physic models, water simulation.
All those things generate WOW factor.
Can Crusher
Banned
Yeah, we will be able to see how these games compare to PC games, and how Orbis and Durango compare to each other.
With tools on MS's side, and hardware accessibility on Sony's side, plus amount of extra dev time studios had for a new generation launch, it's not gonna be one of those situations where we have to wait for 2nd gen games to understand what these machines are capable of.
Mr. MondayNight
Member
Both serve multiple purposes other than playing video games and streaming/playing the occasional movie so this comparison is immensely flawed.
AltogetherAndrews
Banned
In my PC sits SLI 680x2
Cant believe I could afford one though, because it sounds like no one has more than 399 at their disposal
I could spend more on a GPU since I get use out of that when I work, but a game console? That's just a games console. If it's too expensive then it will have to wait until it reaches a price I'm comfortable with paying for a games console. And I'm fairly certain I'm not in the minority.
And we are right now at the tail end of a generation in which Sony struggled to keep pace because they apparently decided that price wasn't going to be a problem because hey, people would just get second jobs. It's recent history, son. Also see: Wii.
Daniel Dawkins ‏@DanDawkins
If I was on a plane to see The Last Guardian, I'd fear it was a euphuism for forced retirement
haha
FlyingTeacup
Member
ps1 was quite modest in design, correct me if i'm wrong, in comparison to ps2 and ps3.
POWERSPHERE
Member
I see lots of words, but do I Boner yet?
The Omega Man
Member
I was being facetious, the information you're asking for is very difficult to obtain at this moment, there has been some vague info regarding de SIMD operations but not sure about latencies yet.
Because consoles are directly competing with computers and they aren't their own closed systems!
Oh wait.
Wouldn't that require additional work? I don't think many multiplatoform games will have it if they can't do it on Durango too. Unless tools like UE4/CE3 already have a built-in solution for that, CE3 should have it if i remember right.
Anyway, those 4CU could be used to have better lightning, AA or AI?
Pleaase.
I want Physx-like sparkles everywhere. I loved it in Batman, the Mill is awesome.
Anyway, I was fantasizing about Sony going with a similar approach month ago, now turns out that it might happen, lol.
The Abominable Snowman
Member
First console with a dedicated GPU, before dedicated GPUs became the norm on PCs. The dedicated chip was also 3D-focused, before similar 3D PC accelerators (The VooDoo line launched years after)
It also had smaller innovations like Memory Card slots, dedicated video DAC, and 'fast' ram vs its competitors. It was a loss leader when it launched.
Saturn launched at a higher price point, due to its build cost and the PS1 nearly outperformed it af a big price difference
It provides DIFFERENT experiences yes....
I cant plug into virtual reality with an Iphone, I could with a games console powerful enough...the thing is, its the experience that determines how much people are willing to spend. This is what Ballmer just couldnt understand with the Iphone...
Experience equals feelings equals willingness to spend money.
Kazuma Kiryu
Member
In my PC sits SLI 680x2
Cant believe I could afford one though, because it sounds like no one has more than 399 at their disposal
can't believe some people don't want to spend more than $500 on these things. preposterous i say.
jesus, what the hell happened to this thread? people comparing smartphones to consoles? asking for 16gb of ram in these machines? oh man, we needed a good laugh i guess.
The Omega Man
Member
yeah, Don't be too proud of this technological terror SONY constructed. Better explosions and ton of debris, destruction of buildings, better driving physic models are insignificant next to the power of Kinect 2.0
Can Crusher
Banned
It's ok to want more.
It's not like Sony and MS are putting in these boxes everything you could possibly ever need/want.
Far from "perfect" in terms of expected tech jump. Fact.
It's not like Sony and MS are putting in these boxes everything you could possibly ever need/want.
Far from "perfect" in terms of expected tech jump. Fact.
Mr. MondayNight
Member
Different yes are those "experiences" as pivotal to the average person as say a cellphone that is pretty much a must have in today's society, or a computer that's essential to being a window to the modern world,
and videos about cats.
Lord Error
Insane For Sony
Some of their games didn't sell well, but a lot of them did. Perhaps they just need to be more selective where they put large resources (and I think that trend has already started). I wouldn't even want to think what would be of PS3 if they didn't put so much effort into so many of these games. Yes, they didn't all sell well, but they captured a lot of headlines with "best this, best that" which must have helped reverse all the negativity around the machine.
All console manufacturers, Nintendo SOny and MS are playing safer this time. Nintendo did it before and results are there, and it is not very likely that another contender joins the console business.
Unlike nintendo, MS and Sony are making systems powerful enough to make the leap enough for most, but they are not making overpowered and expensive systems that in a difficult economic environment and a world with casuals going after tablets and smartphones, it is not as safe as it was for them. If needed, they will launch ps5 and xbox 4 sooner and this will be a shorter generation, just like nintendo did.
Playstation game day is few days away.. Could it be the new name of the playstation meeting?
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
I see, so your problem is you think the Oculus requires some super powered behemoth 5flops to pull off? It doesn't, a lot of what the Oculus is is just the right pairing of visual equipment and accelerometers. For a jury-rigged offering on the same page but without that field of view, cast your eyes over this offering:
http://www.iwaggle3d.com/2012/05/datura-hmz-t1-personal-3d-viewer-2nd.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8l1Bq-9zWvc
Thats with the PS3, current gen tech. The PS4 looking to go 6x-8x beyond, and you dont think it wouldnt be able to support the Rift? No, what Sony is rightfully hesitant about is the theoretical "Buy this $450 console, now buy this $300 headset" market.
Youre getting very confused with GAF tech thread posters and CES tech show aficionados with the rest of the population of Earth. One set is a very slim minority!
Yes but I can buy a phone with the same features as an Iphone for 90$, so why do millions buy Iphones?
Can Crusher
Banned
Oculus Rift requires 60 FPS V synced + 3D.
Obviously it all depends on how good you want your game to look, but yeah...it requires a pretty decent machine.
Obviously it all depends on how good you want your game to look, but yeah...it requires a pretty decent machine.
do those people go out in moonlight and dance naked?
Risk Breaker
Member
I think this next generation will be shorter than this one. I'm thinking next-next-gen release at 2019 for sure.
Anyway, I hope digital distribution (and internet infrastructure, obviously) is advanced enough for them to make their main SKU optical drive-less. Make the drive optional and pluggable via USB 3.0 and that's it.
They could save money, power and most importantly (I think), volume. I wonder if Sony or MS even thought of doing that with PS420?
/random thoughts
Anyway, I hope digital distribution (and internet infrastructure, obviously) is advanced enough for them to make their main SKU optical drive-less. Make the drive optional and pluggable via USB 3.0 and that's it.
They could save money, power and most importantly (I think), volume. I wonder if Sony or MS even thought of doing that with PS420?
/random thoughts
Mr. MondayNight
Member
Added functionality on top of a service that is pretty much ESSENTIAL to everyday life. and the fact that Apple's
Steve Jobs
Now I have a question for you what person buys a $90 phone then buys a $600 game console that's like buying a used Pinto and putting 24 inch rims on it.
I proposed this 6 months ago here, and got slaughtered!
According to GAF this was doable in about 10 years.
TheExecutive
Member
I disagree.