Give us those 2CU back, you can do it Sony, screw the expense!
Do you think emulation of the nvidia GPU would be doable then? Setting aside whether we think BC will be there or issues with CELL.
VGleaks: Orbis Unveiled! [Updated]
- Thread starter ekim
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Give us those 2CU back, you can do it Sony, screw the expense!
Do you think emulation of the nvidia GPU would be doable then? Setting aside whether we think BC will be there or issues with CELL.
Personally I think these consoles will have less longevity than past gens. They're actually not that far ahead in tech.
It had nothing to do with that.
It was a question of whether or not the proper densities would arrive in time.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
i disagree, i think that these machines will be transitioned into stream/cloud based services. I think this generation of consoles is actually the last.
GPU is not problem. CELL is.
Not going to happen in a looong time. Avarge current speed of internet in biggest markets is just to small to even talk about it. For completely cloud based service you will need good internet speeds everywhere including rural areas. Without it you will lose 25-50% of total possible customers.
Cell was largely what made the PS3 hard to Dev for, but used right it was also the best thing about the console. Without it Xenos would have been the more powerful console. The GPU was weaker than the 360s.
Can Crusher
Banned
The "compare exclusives is pointless" line just doesn't mix with me.
Exclusives always were and always will be the best way for a system to show its hardware. Multiplatforms, unless they heavily invest in the strengths of the hardware, aren't the best way to judge a system at all.
Only when developers design to the strenghts of the platform, and not to a middle ground between platforms, do they really show what the system can do.
Both the GPU and cell would be an issue with emulation. Licensing would be an additional obstacle with the GPU too.
It's possible, but highly unlikely considering the resources (both manpower and financial) Sony would have to dedicate for a niche feature.
To emulate PS3 in Orbis...
les papillons sexuels
Banned
the problem is that exclusives play to the strengths of the consoles and aren't directly comparable. If one of the console has exclusive a, with fantastic texture and shaders, but lacks top quality lighting, and the other console, exclusive b has great lighting but with weak texture and shaders, how are you supposed to directly compare these 2 thing?
this becomes an art argument, it's subjective to the viewer. (hence why people argue 360 exclusives >|< ps3 exclusives) On the other hand, multiplatform games tend to play less to the strengths, and allows for the console to determine performance and IQ, a more objective comparison.
People switch all the time (look at phones) and a new generation is the perfect place to do so, so your friends also switch with you. I doubt VERY VERY MUCH that with party chat on PSN and free online, and better controllers, people will have much incentive to play the next COD on the xbox than the PS4, especially if the PS4 version looks/performs better.
Yep. Exclusives play to the strengths while carefully hiding the weaknesses. It's not a 100% gauge of true console power.
the preferred graphics API is libGCM. PSGL, which is based on OpenGL ES, is also available to the devs but it's not used as much.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Just over 3 billion would be my guess.
Agreed, I don't think it is just that multiple Sony first party devs are a big level above anything first party on the 360 in terms of what they can push the system to do. Plenty of talented studios, but you have to work within the platforms limitations. It would be silly to say the only reason PC games look better is due to the developers.
I'll be quite shocked if the final Xbox720 is not a revision to the current leaks and what we know now is not somewhat of a trial balloon (I say somewhat because obviously the early dev kits are real). On the other hand, Sony's hardware seems pretty locked down at this point.
AgentP
Thinks mods influence posters politics. Promoted to QAnon Editor.
Hmmm sounds about right yeah..
There was a Dennis guy claiming that the leaked specs was accurate but incomplete, any chance it could be a discreete GPU in addition to this SOC?
Granted we don't have all the hardware elements as of yet, but let us assume, for the sake of argument, that Orbis ends up having the upper hand.
We are still talking of minor differnces, something of the order of 10-15%, almost negligible. They will roughly fall in the same category. MS, however, will make sure they deliver on the initial promises of Kinect, offer a better integrated exprience, play on the strenghts of their online and sofware know-how...their propsal seems, imo, more attractive to the average household-buyer.
We are still talking of minor differnces, something of the order of 10-15%, almost negligible. They will roughly fall in the same category. MS, however, will make sure they deliver on the initial promises of Kinect, offer a better integrated exprience, play on the strenghts of their online and sofware know-how...their propsal seems, imo, more attractive to the average household-buyer.
Exclusives from 1st party are showcases of hardware. Don't spin it. Because most of developers don't take or can't take advantage from certain hardware design it doesn't meant it is weaker.
If you want some numbers:
GT5 use 1280x1080p resolution with 2xMSAA+TAA Forza 4 does 1280x720p 4xMSAA. Gt5 also pushes better car lod models, lightning engine, weather day/night cycle. That is not small difference. It pushes far more polygons and at the same time look better. Both are first party games so it is good comparison.
As i said earlier want to brag about which consoles is better worse move to this thread:
THREAD
JohnnySasaki86
Member
Maybe, but I think more of it was because it wasn't MS financial prority hire tons of developers to build FP studios. After the success PS2 had with 3rd party exclusives, MS priority was to secure exclusive content and exclusive games. For the most part they had to settle for timed exclusivity. They were able to get games that were once only on Sonys platform though. GTAIV and FFXIII(OMG what found memories of the meltdowns This may have been one of the best highlights of the whole generation, someone please post the youtube video of that guy blasting SE for ruining his whole world. Classic.)
I really think this will be MS downfall and could really hurt Durango, they have to much catching up to do. I think Sony learned from Nintendio, soley a gaming compnay only, making billions more profit that Sony even though they had a 3rd place console(please dont ask for a source, the graph has been posted on this forum hundreds of times). The reason why was because of Nintendio profitable FP games.
So you can't just compare overall fidelity eh? Remind me to petition the NFL that games should be decided on a player-by-player basis instead of team vs team.
You can nitpick all you want but in the end - it all adds up and that bottom line matters most. I still haven't seen anything like the into level to GoW3 on any console. Shit still blows my mind but hey - to you its unfair to compare a complete package to a complete package.
The true console power reveals itself by focusing on the strenghts and circumventing the weaknesses, so I don't know what you're alluding to. We judge the capacities by the best a mahine has to offer, not by some mediocre metric...
Something to understand about the Forza games is they push as much as they can as long as the game runs in a locked 60fps with vsync.
Gran Turismo 5 does not follow this rule.
So using Uncharted 3 as an excuse for why Playstation 3 couldn't run CryEngine 3 correctly realistic?
I can't agree. les papillons sexuels is more on the money here (regardless of what some gaffers believe). There are other factors to consider but this isn't the topic for this, continue over PM?
Yep and not to mention those studios will also be improving over time. I think TLOU for example will show improvements ND has made this generation
But MS has been collecting some good talent as well so there should be some solid exclusives from them as well
THE:MILKMAN
Member
No I don't think they'll be a discrete GPU. There are hints of more customisations with the CPU that we don't know about yet, so we'll have to wait and see if we hear anything about that.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
even if there was a vast difference between the 2, diminishing returns is going to result in a console generation where the gap between new consoles, and even the old ones, is much smaller.
as for the compairson between the 2.
Given tech like tessellation ensures that polygon counts will reach a theoretical max yield/percivable yield on both consoles, the size of the ram, and the overall bandwith on the 2 systems, along with better disk drives and harddrives will greatly increase texture quality, again to a point of impercieveble difference.
The only real differences might come from some "effects" and image quality.
this is ot but I could argue the same about Halo 4. Hence it's subjective, they don't compare. Same for GT5 vs forza, their phsycis handling is vastly different, so just because one developer put emphasis into graphics, the other into physics again, they don't compare.
If current rumors are true Orbis will have 50% more pure Tflop power over Durango. As of design we can't say which one will be more efficient. 600Gflop imo is big difference. To big to fix it just with better design considering both of consoles will be essentially using similar hardware.
Right now most interesting parts are 4CU in Orbis GPU and DMA in Durango.
GT5 was updated long time ago and it is almost rock solid 60fps. Still few FPS drops and lack of Vsync don't compensate for that amount of difference.
C2 was shit on both consoles from IQ and FPS standpoint and i don't know what U3 has to do with it.
I don't want to go further into discussion because it is not place for it.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
in all likelyhood it'll be related to the evolution of the memexport instructions. This is a capability of the Xenos but afaik it's not used as often. Corrine Yu talked about it's function in halo 4 though. (actually i assume it has to do with the data move stuff)
The problem with CryEngine 3 was that it was intended for more powerful hardware. A notebook laptop you can buy now can run those console settings in 60fps.
oversitting
Banned
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Good question. I wonder what the breakdown of system RAM/GPU RAM is for Skyrim with Ultra settings?
I'd also like to understand why PCI express' 16GB/s bandwidth isn't a bottleneck in PCs (at least it is never mentioned)
painful fart
Member
According to this
http://www.hotchips.org/wp-content/...-3-ManyCore/HC24.28.315-AMD.GCN.mantor_v1.pdf
Pitcairn is 2.8 billion transistors, so it may be reasonable to believe the Orbis SOC to be a bit above 3 billions.
The only way to do this with (G)DDR is a 512bit memory interface. A 512bit memory interface running at 1.375Ghz. Crazy.
Betrayer of hope
Banned
Rambus was the only one who could have provided the fast necessary ram at the time for the cell.
3.2 ghz blazing fast cell processor is pointless if you are bandwidth starved and thats what XDR is for
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Oh. I thought it was a given it would be 256bit.
It is 256 bit. Those 4GB are new latest hardware from 2013 not yet used anywhere.
No it can't. Not without H/W. CELL has unbelievable smart design that was for a long time underutilized and also betrayed by a specific partner.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_36yNWw_07g&feature=player_detailpage#t=10s
It's not only the problem that you have to emulate 6 cpus, but they're 128bit wide and at 3.2Ghz. The PS4 has 8 x 1.6Gzh, 64bit wide, cores.
The only way to accomplish anything is not by emulation but by virtualization.
That means that Sony has software that can allow a PC to play PS3 games.
Nope. Way to early for that.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Are you saying the memory will be stacked? Is it just a guess?
nope. No stacking.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
Now I'm getting confused again. If there is no stacking and it is GDDR5 and Rolf is correct in what he says........what gives?
You will be sucked.
JohnnySasaki86
Member
The SPU's are not cpus but really fast little SIMD processors. Same thing the 410gflop modified 4CU's specialize for compute are going to be excellent at. Many people pointed out its not how many ghz it is, 64bit vs 128bit, or how many flops each can theoritically achieve, but what it can do per frame/sec or cycle may have been the word. Basically all those numbers are irrelvent when your comparing it to a processor from 2013.
I thought some rumors were saying it would be 2.5D? Or was that only if it ended up being DDR4?