VGleaks: Orbis Unveiled! [Updated]
- Thread starter ekim
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phosphor112
Banned
Some guy I've been "talking to" keeps insisting on 8gigs of DDR3(+ esram) over the GDDR5. -__-.
Oppo
Member
What nonsense. I'm faster than you are with a finger resting on each shoulder button, no travel time. You're holding it slow.
To be honest, I still don't know what benefits GDDR5 has over DDR3. When I first heard the rumours, I would have taken 8GB over faster 4GB, but GAFs reaction has been different. Care to explain what benefit/s GDDR5 has?
gaming_noob
Member
The hardware must be finalized by now. This just means no one knows anything.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
I am curious about the drive in the Orbis. I assume it's going to be Blu-ray. I remember one of the big failures of PS3 being that the read speed on the Blu-ray drive was only 2x so it was slower with reads than a DVD. I guess read speed isn't as big a deal now that they have more RAM to work with, but I would assume that the new system would have a 8-12x read speed. I assume this will mean way shorter load times and less mandatory HDD installs? I have an OG 60GB PS3 and never bothered upgrading the drive, so I found myself fighting with the mandatory installs after a while.
It's got twice the bandwidth or something like that. Meaning you can move data in and out of memory twice as fast as DDR3.
It's got twice the bandwidth or something like that. Meaning you can move data in and out of memory twice as fast as DDR3.
So what does that mean, just faster loading times? I thought blu-ray read speeds had a bigger factor for that.
GDDR5 is based off of DDR3, is a lot faster, and more efficient at doing certain tasks.
well, there is no such thing as format for 4K movies right now.
New standard is out right now and it offers more fidelity at half the bandwith... but it might be needing powerful hardware to decode it.
Well, cinemas get 4K movies on hard drives with frames compressed with JPEG2000. It takes approximately 225GB for a two hour movie. I can imaging you can compress that into ~100 GB disk, but it will take some effort to maintain the quality and have place for extras / surround sound/whatever else they decide to add there to stimulate us to buy that stuff.
Then you're holding it weird or resting it on your lap, because the weight distribution is off. Maybe you're used to it, but it's not a natural pose.
Updated:
Good work. I would add also those as extra:
Audio Processor (ACP)
Video encode and decode (VCE/UVD) units
Display ScanOut Engine (DCE)
Zlib Decompression Hardware
Those both can increase efficiency,
and we know DSP will also be in Durango.
I thought the Duke was comfortable to hold, but the black/white buttons needed to be full sized buttons and the dpad sucked IMO. I also hated the jelly bean/spongy feel when hitting the buttons.
I understand that, but when I use the pad or tip of my thumb on the sticks, it forces the rest of my hand in a position that is awkward when holding the controller or using my fingers on the top mounted buttons. =(
I'm also 6'5" and my hands have always cramped up using PS controllers. Don't get me wrong, the 360 controller is too small for me as well and I have to add the chat pad just to give my hands more to grip.
Am I wrong or are you actually bothered by my request? It's a controller, nothing to get at all worked up over. It's entirely possible to create a new controller that doesn't alienate "old fans" and also please those who find the current design less than ideal.
Yes I do prefer the analog placing on the xbox controller, but I think that may stem from all my time gaming on the Nights and DC controllers which also featured the left analog stick above the D-pad.
Also, they can make the d-pad better by not using the 4 separate button design. I've always hated it ever since the PSone days and there's a reason why the Saturn d-pad was considered far better and more comfortable for fighters. It works fine when you just need to hit one of the 4 ways, but I find it uncomfortable when I need to do motions or hit a diagonal direction.
I'm not a techie at all, but from what I've interpreted I think in the end it will mean better graphix and anti-aliasing at high resolutions and that it will be easier for the processors to be utilised. For example if the bandwidth of the ram is slower than the speed at which the processors can operate its going to be a limiting factor from what I think? Also I think the speed of GDDR 5 could possibly allow you to compress data enough when stored there so that it makes-up for the lower amount of memory as it can be decompressed more quickly than raw-data can be read from DDR3. Then again I could have completely misunderstood what people have been saying so take it with a grain of salt.
theDeeDubs
Member
How big are next gen games expected to be? Most PSN digital versions are around 7gb with a few going up to 17bg. Starting to second guess my digital only plans for next gen if they start going 50gb+. 4k movies look like they will keep me from getting rid of my Ikea Billy's for a while that's for sure.
shinobi602
Member
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
People here can explain it better than me, but basically faster RAM can lead to better performance because it can move data to the processor more quickly. If you have a processor that can process data really fast, you need to feed it data really fast. You can run into a problem where your RAM is slower than your processor and your processor has to wait for data to be fed into it from the RAM. That's a really simple (bad) explanation of it.
phosphor112
Banned
Most of GAF doesn't know the difference either. They just see one has a bigger number (8 over 4). 4gig GDDR5 in Orbis has a bandwidth of 178GB/s, while the 8gig DDR3 is at 68GB/s with an eSRAM of 32mb at 102GB/s.
The bandwidth is how fast the memory can be accessed.
The Orbis has half as much ram, but it's 2.5 times faster than the Durango's DDR3.
And the ram is still 75% faster than the eSRAM (which is a meager 32mb).
Having faster RAM means more ram is available per frame.
Having more RAM means you can have more data loaded.
That data is useless if it can't be accessed as quickly as the faster ram.
Per frame that GDDR5 memory would allow about 3gigs available per frame while the DDR3 would only allow 1gig per frame.
Even AMD, the chip manufacter for both Durango's and Orbis' CPU and GPU's say GDDR5 provides a performance increase over DDR3.
This is why most high end GPU's use GDDR5 over the more "budget" DDR3.
AMD's APU's are also bandwidth limited. Tests have shown, increasing the bandwidth of the system memory significantly increases performance.
So, yes, Orbis "only" has 4 gigs of ram, which would require more streaming if you wanted extremely complex open world environments, but the bandwidth is capable of keeping up.
Yes, DDR3 can allow more ram and data loaded into the RAM, requiring less HDD access, and less streaming, but you'd suffer in terms of things like frame rate, resolution, alpha resolution, shadows, texture filtering, and more.
EDIT: Mind you the Durango still has that 32mb of ram, but it still has a lower bandwidth than that GDDR5. Sure the latency (time to be accessed) is lower, but for GPU processes, that's irrelevant.
shinobi602
Member
^^^How does all that translate in a real world game?
EDIT: Nvm, I see.
EDIT: Nvm, I see.
NemesisPrime
Banned
And this is why GAF is not the place for technical discussions.
It is the bit-wars again from the 80s.
Has nothing to do with load times. I guess the short answer is everything will run a bit faster; higher framerates, better AA, more effects, all with less developer effort. With the ESRAM (and the data move engines) in the Durango it can still keep up for the most part with careful optimization of tools and engine design, in theory.
For some reason I stopped reading after that lol.
NemesisPrime
Banned
Yeah some funny shit in this thread.
Lol... as if all that data will constantly go to the GPU.
phosphor112
Banned
I'd like to see how well it works in practice. Requiring that many hoops to jump through usually doesn't mean to well... (see Cell).
I mean... zLib chip will be able to help Orbis move data around. Likely between HDD and Memory, which would help out with the "low" RAM.
If it sits idle in memory, what use does it have? You walk into a new area? Sure, but the bandwidth to then send to the GPU is still slower than the GDDR5.
FonkyByNature
Member
Yup. Vita dpad simply rocks !
But i'm not worried about Sony making a nice controller and comfortable to hold.
With digital distribution becoming a bigger focus next gen, I would be surprised if games became much larger than this gen TBH.
NemesisPrime
Banned
Please stop... your are doing more harm than good.
Melchiah
Member
Yes, to some extent, as I'm a bit fed up with seeing repeated requests for making the DualShock more like the Xbox pad, which for me personally isn't as comfortable to use. I'm also a bit worried if Sony actually decided to go into that direction, after all, it wouldn't be the first time they caved in due to the criticism of a vocal minority. And I don't want to be forced to play with a new controller I don't like for the duration of the generation.
I think Wii U's pro pad's placement of analogue sticks is interesting, as they're both placed where the D-pad & action buttons used to be. That being said, I have no experience on how it works in practise.
I like the four separate buttons on the DS D-pad, as it makes mistakes less probable when you change the ammo/weapon/grenades/powers, or use medi-kit/flashlight/etc., in the heat of the action. I dunno what design would work best in some genres I don't usually play, like fighters or platformers for example, but I imagine it might be somewhat inconvenient for diagonal directions like you said. During the PS1 days, when I still played some fighters, I always used the Namco arcade stick.
phosphor112
Banned
.
Not every asset in RAM needs to be accessed every frame. Consider the example of a multilayer shooter. Every player model needs to be in RAM because if you stream off a drive when someone pops out from around a corner, it'll cause the game to freeze for a second (or have a crappy generic model). But not every player needs to be drawn every frame in most cases. There's also stuff like audio that gets DMA'd to the audio hardware with little intervention from the CPU.
phosphor112
Banned
Dev's use LOD's for a reason, and they won't stop next gen just because. Not using LOD's is inefficient and a waste of ram.
but are the HDD and BD drive capable of keeping up? you have to fill that memory somehow before you can use that bandwidth, and not everything will be procedural
Standing vertically, with the curves facing forwards at an angle to hide the bulky base, PS3 phat is the best looking console ever made. Ceramic white even better.
phosphor112
Banned
Orbis will have that zlib decompressor, and it also was rumored (for some time) to have flash memory, 16gb. Maybe it's on a hybrid hard drive? Optical is still slow, but it'll be 6 times the speed that the PS3 has now, which is two times the speed of a 12x DVD (I think 360 used that...).
Tarin02543
Member
Yes, give me 4gb of gold instead of 8gb silver.
^This.
I like the layout of the xbox controller better, but if you read above you'll see that I find that controller too small as well (plus it's well known the d-pad sucks ass).
Again, it should be possible to fix the issues people like me have while keeping people like you happy. I don't necessarily want them to make it look or feel like any other controller specifically (well besides the Nights pad) but I do wish they would update some of the core aspects. Don't fear change, embrace it. =p
Beerman462
Member
You would think 3GB DDR3 + 3GB DDR5 would have been a better solution, but I really wouldn't know.
...And that's a wrap. Thanks for coming by, folks.
You're just repeating shit you've read at the Gamespot forums now aren't you?
Seriously, wat?
SniperHunter
Banned
I have a feeling MS will switch to GDDR5
GreatMightySymp
Member
Hopefully Sony uses the Vita's directional pad. It's easily one of the best ones I've used on a controller/handheld.
Death Dealer
Member
Love this post
Not happening bro. You cant just swap ram like that. Same with PC. Certain boards take certain ram because of unique specifications cant just throw anything in.
phosphor112
Banned
Clicky Vita >>>>>> Squishy DS3