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Iwata implies he may resign over poor business performance
- Thread starter Cheesemeister
- Start date
Fixed.
It will be a very, very, sad day if Iwata ever is forced to leave Nintendo.
Iwata is responsible for a lot of Nintendo's policies. Their first-party DLC policy, for example. Games are to be complete at launch, all DLC to be extras developed after launch. This stops the gauging that many developers do these days. He wants everything to be as cheap and complete out of the box as humanly possible. As PhantomR stated, Nintendo is very pro-consumer, even if they do some things that annoy us, the vocal minority (such as Region Locking). If he's replaced, the replacement could turn Nintendo into that. Imagine Animal Crossing with a craptonne of micro-transactions. Mario games where you have 2 worlds and then have to pay $5 for a new one. It'd be horrific.
Nintendo are doing things right. People keep saying they should have focused on power rather than these different experinces. Let me put it to you, do you REALLY want a third console that is just exactly the same with different exclusives? I certainly don't.
The Wii U sold more in the first two months than the Playstation 3 and Xbox 360 did in the same timeframe. The problems are on three tiers
1) Nintendo, along with other people, keep comparing the 3DS and Wii U's sales to the massively anomalous DS and Wii sale trends. Those were anomalies and will never be able to be matched.
2) Nintendo needs to be far more conservative with their estimates and forecasts. If they were more conservative, this whole thing wouldn't be an issue
3) People continue to class Nintendo as being for kids. A friend of mine asked why ZombiU was on the Wii U since Nintendo consoles are for kids. Even when Nintendo tries to sort this out, people still believe it and complain, as seen with Bayonetta 2. Western developers even believe this. Their marketing doesn't help.
There's also an issue in the gaming media where they seem to have a massive axe to grind against Nintendo. For what reason, I am unclear. All the Nintendo is doomed articles do not help their public image. Look at the 3DS in the UK, as it was coming out, several media outlets went on a massive negative rant against Nintendo, claiming that the 3D can destroy your eyes, and other such things.
Iwata resigning won't solve a damned thing. He has made some mistakes, but you need to consider the mitigating factors and everything. Loads of developers are collapsing, loads of companies including entertainment retailers. The economy isn't in the best of shape. Yes, there could have been better games at launch, but when is that never true?
It'd be foolish to thing the PS4 and new Xbox will be any different.
Besides, the 3DS is profitable, and will massively take off in the west this year, by Pokémon X & Y alone.
Iwata is responsible for a lot of Nintendo's policies. Their first-party DLC policy, for example. Games are to be complete at launch, all DLC to be extras developed after launch. This stops the gauging that many developers do these days. He wants everything to be as cheap and complete out of the box as humanly possible. As PhantomR stated, Nintendo is very pro-consumer, even if they do some things that annoy us, the vocal minority (such as Region Locking). If he's replaced, the replacement could turn Nintendo into that. Imagine Animal Crossing with a craptonne of micro-transactions. Mario games where you have 2 worlds and then have to pay $5 for a new one. It'd be horrific.
Nintendo are doing things right. People keep saying they should have focused on power rather than these different experinces. Let me put it to you, do you REALLY want a third console that is just exactly the same with different exclusives? I certainly don't.
The Wii U sold more in the first two months than the Playstation 3 and Xbox 360 did in the same timeframe. The problems are on three tiers
1) Nintendo, along with other people, keep comparing the 3DS and Wii U's sales to the massively anomalous DS and Wii sale trends. Those were anomalies and will never be able to be matched.
2) Nintendo needs to be far more conservative with their estimates and forecasts. If they were more conservative, this whole thing wouldn't be an issue
3) People continue to class Nintendo as being for kids. A friend of mine asked why ZombiU was on the Wii U since Nintendo consoles are for kids. Even when Nintendo tries to sort this out, people still believe it and complain, as seen with Bayonetta 2. Western developers even believe this. Their marketing doesn't help.
There's also an issue in the gaming media where they seem to have a massive axe to grind against Nintendo. For what reason, I am unclear. All the Nintendo is doomed articles do not help their public image. Look at the 3DS in the UK, as it was coming out, several media outlets went on a massive negative rant against Nintendo, claiming that the 3D can destroy your eyes, and other such things.
Iwata resigning won't solve a damned thing. He has made some mistakes, but you need to consider the mitigating factors and everything. Loads of developers are collapsing, loads of companies including entertainment retailers. The economy isn't in the best of shape. Yes, there could have been better games at launch, but when is that never true?
It'd be foolish to thing the PS4 and new Xbox will be any different.
Besides, the 3DS is profitable, and will massively take off in the west this year, by Pokémon X & Y alone.
TreasureHunterG
Banned
Certainly.
If a game of a GTA caliber got announced as a Nintendo exclusive, anti-Nintendo fanboys would meltdown.
Hell, even when MH4 was announced for 3DS, the baby-crying from Sony fanboys was annoying.
They complain about Nintendo not getting third-party support, but when it does, they say Nintendo are stealing their games.
Spirit Icana
Member
Good word of mouth is the best kind of marketing one can get. So I say stellar games with wide appeal triumphs ALL. Go Minecraft!
Edit: Speaking of Minecraft, there is another example of a hit that came outta nowhere.
SloaneRisette
Member
Oh man, this would be really sad =\ I love Iwata, and would hate to see him go. Plus who knows if the replacement would be better... of course, at least from me, this is all speculation.
I'm sure we'll see in time how things go.
I'm sure we'll see in time how things go.
Off the top of my head;
All the major EA sports/BIG franchises
Tony Hawk and its derivatives
Prince of Persia series
Timesplitters
Splinter Cell
Rainbow Six
MoH
CoD
etc... A much better situation that Wii ever was.
lwilliams3
Member
They better get used to that, because we are probably going to see more of this from Nintendo.
Those people are a small but vocal minority. The majority of the fanbase will make the jump, as seen with DQ and lately, MH.
ShockingAlberto
Member
I've seen otherwise rational posters get upset at the notion of Nintendo getting exclusivity on certain franchises.
And not just now, even back in the Gamecube days. The Resident Evil exclusivity thing made a lot of people mad.
And not just now, even back in the Gamecube days. The Resident Evil exclusivity thing made a lot of people mad.
MisterHero
Super Member
Like I said regarding n-Space, they spent 4+ years working on Geist. They needed Miyamoto's intervention to finish the game with relative timeliness.
Silicon Knights was stuck on Too Human since the N64. Probably another bad experience.
They want developers that don't need too much oversight. Retro needed it when they were working on Prime 1, but they've become the closest thing to another Rare that Nintendo has built itself.
The games they choose to market with cartoons, etc. are successful beforehand*. To be fair though, I think their non-Pokemon toy/cartoon marketing sucks.
*Kid Icarus did have such a push, and the game only did modestly well by Nintendo standards.
Capcom 5 was worse.
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
half life 3 on wii U.......hmmmmm
I think it was a big miss to have a game developer as the president. he is good at getting the right product strategy but had to grow a lot more when the wii was successful A LOT. nintendo still only has about 5000 employees thats way too little. they could have bought companies like midway, tecmo, THQ, eidos when those were financially struggling and would have gained a lot of IP and more importantly people but they lost those opportunities (just recently they missed to buy vigil which is baffling considering the weak third party support of nintendo.)
nintendo needs a financial guy that has a lot of M&A experience as at the moment getting a steady stream of first party games .
nintendo needs a financial guy that has a lot of M&A experience as at the moment getting a steady stream of first party games .
Davey Cakes
Member
And we need to see it, too.
The Wii U needs as many exclusives as possible, for differentiation purposes. Multiplat games should be seen as a bonus.
With enough "you can't get this anywhere else" sorts of games, the Wii U could be a success as an alternative system (like the Wii but with a different approach).
I think the internet would have to be shut down for a few days for that kinda announcement.
mentalfloss
Banned
If Iwata needs to go, then Riccitello needs to be doused in gin and set ablaze.
Fourth Storm
Member
I don't have any more insight than the next person here, but allowing Vigil to dissolve does seem a damn shame. I mean, you had a developer who was seemingly enthusiastic about the hardware and already had experience with it. I'm sure the resources and know-how could have resulted in producing a quality exclusive Wii U title in a reasonable span of time.
Yeah, a better launch than the last two non-Nintendo consoles, a return to profit and much lower operating income loss despite a new console that is being sold at a loss.
Yeah, Iwata screwed up.
People seem to forget that these things don't fix overnight
Surely the logical solution there, then, is to design towards a reasonable lowest common denominator? The amount of power you require is not set in stone at the design phase.
If Nintendo were to do this, they would absolutely need to bring in new management at NoA that has extensive experience in US game development. If NCL tried to do it themselves they'd probably screw it up.
*edit* As a lower risk alternative, Nintendo could collaborate more with existing western third party developers on western-focused exclusives. Sort of like how they got Rayman and Zombi U, but on a larger scale.
The more I read the thread's title the more it annoys me, it makes it look like Iwata is going to resign right now, which couldn't be farther from the truth.
Of course Iwata haters are having a field trip in the thread because of it, without actually reading the op in question, and spouting complete nonsense to support Iwata stepping down.
Of course Iwata haters are having a field trip in the thread because of it, without actually reading the op in question, and spouting complete nonsense to support Iwata stepping down.
SquiddyCracker
Banned
I have nothing against Iwata as a person, but he's not the man that should be in charge of Nintendo.
They need more forward thinking, or heck, current thinking - like implementing an account system that everyone else already have.
They need more forward thinking, or heck, current thinking - like implementing an account system that everyone else already have.
Yeah, pretty much.
But about slow product sales -- and I have no thoughts on this myself -- are game prices part of the problem? Or are they a necessary evil? Would lower game prices sell more games, or is it a moot point next to the colossal mindshare of smartphones and tablets? If lower games did sell more, how much more would they need to sell to be more profitable than the current model?
I know 99-cent games are in many ways a race to the bottom, as Iwata once expressed, and I'm not advocating it, but I'm curious if something in-between would be fruitful. Any thoughts? Is the price of games part of the problem?
lwilliams3
Member
True. It is weird to see rational people having meltdowns like that.
I agree. Let's hope that there are things going on behind the scenes that will ensure that the Wii U will have a good amount of those type of games. We already know that Nintendo has great relations with Capcom, Platium, and Ubisoft. But they can't stop there.
Definitely. People have been spoiled by the pricepoints on iOS and other mobile platforms. As such, they're always finding that prices that allow the developers to turn a profit for full games are too expensive, so won't buy.
Spirit Icana
Member
I think the biggest problem that you did identify a little bit here is that, because he was a game developer, that may be why he gave guys like Miyamoto, Sakamoto, EAD Tokyo, and the Zelda team so much time to do whatever they wanted to do. Zelda took 5 years and was cel-shaded again, but they kept adult Link this time, Metroid got its movie, and Super Mario Galaxy 2 was made... and took 2 years (it was suppose to finished in 1 year), and none of these games did much for Wii hardware sales. The titles themselves underperformed compared to their predecessors as well.
Too much time wasted on these games that should've been out sooner or shouldn't have been made at all. And now Wind Waker HD is coming out. How will its sales compare to Ocarina of Time 3D's, which was on the sick 3DS. Stay tuned!
Coffee Dog
Banned
This is really bad if they choose a businessman to run the company instead of Iwata - say goodbye to shit like Kid Icarus and their lower tier titles that don't make much money.
It really is sad that some amazing games got released under him (SMG2 isn't the best 3D platformer made for no reason) but that never translated into sales.
It really is sad that some amazing games got released under him (SMG2 isn't the best 3D platformer made for no reason) but that never translated into sales.
MisterHero
Super Member
It'd be nice for them to drop prices on their downloadable retail games. However, retailers would be upset with Nintendo if they dropped prices on either end.
What happen with these series really annoy me. Nintendo sent out the BW and Excite series to die in the end. Excite Truck only faired better because it was a launch game. Pilotwings possibly as well but I doubt it did well. No one even knew Excitebots had even been released! They did nothing with Battalion Wars 2 on the Wii and to this day I feel that game had a lot of potential and could have been successful had it been given some kind of push. This is part of why people have issues with Nintendo of America or Nintendo in general when it comes to the west.
Forget working with western third party developers/publishers. They need to get their own damn house in order first! I wouldn't be surprised if third party publishers even see this themselves and that is part of why they don't want to have anything to do with Nintendo hardware. That Nintendo themselves don't even care about their own games that might closely resemble theirs. That they have had opportunities to cultivate markets for certain games but don't even care to themselves so why should they (third parties) might be the thought process.
I really want to know for certain what NoA can do and can't do. Do they have any responsibility to market and advertise Nintendo's games? What is that damn building of theirs even for if they aren't allowed or tasked with doing anything of any significance?
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Yes, this I agree with it. I cannot say the same things about NOA. Though I know a few people over there and they are all good people, they either don't really have much authority and that needs to change. Also, they need to take more risk. And put their agencies in review. But that's just my opinion.
Absolutely. I think it's an illustration of one of the largest differences between Eastern and Western cultures.
John Harker
Definitely doesn't make things up as he goes along.
Also, so many of you live in these bubbles. Nintendo cannot just go around spending all this money on studios and IP and securing so many exclusives. It's really bad ROI for them.
The truth of the matter is, their fanbase just doesn't support it. And they know this.
You can bitch on forums all you want, but these games just don't sell. You have to look at the return third parties get for their efforts, and even non-traditional first party games struggle to find sales. Games are expensive. Start buying before you start condemning, and you'll get more
The truth of the matter is, their fanbase just doesn't support it. And they know this.
You can bitch on forums all you want, but these games just don't sell. You have to look at the return third parties get for their efforts, and even non-traditional first party games struggle to find sales. Games are expensive. Start buying before you start condemning, and you'll get more
He has also been increidbly humble witih Nintendo's struggles. The amount of times he has issued apologies on behalf of the company's performance, and actually issued punishments, makes me wish we had more businessmen like him.
In 2011, he apologized for the 3DS's sluggish performance and announced he would be reducing his pay by 50%, along with the rest of the senior executives at Nintendo.
Once 2012 came around, it turns out he wasn't joking: The results released by Nintendo revealed Iwata had cut his own pay by 67%.
Iwata led Nintendo during the DS and Wii eras, and those were huge booms for them. And I think he recognizes that they missed a golden opportunity to experience explosive long term growth similar to that of an Apple or a Google, not because their underlying philosophy or ideas were unsound, but because Iwata and the rest of Nintendo failed to anticipate the resistance of the rest of the industry. They figured that as long as the hardware sold well, the developers would follow, as that has always been the case.
The problem is that the hardware arms race (which Nintendo views as stiffling over the long term) has made it so that publishers need to incur so many sunk financial costs that they can't afford to change development platforms on a year's notice anymore. It would kill them, as they can barely support themselves as is. Nintendo correctly judged the consumer side of the market with the Wii (that they did not NEED a hardware product to have moer and more power in order to purchase it), but they absolutely failed to recognize the plight faced in the developer/publisher side. And that's why Nintendo finds themselves in the current predicament. Not because their ideas were unsound, but because they failed in the execution of inter-business partnerships and relations. And that does fall on upper management rather than lower or middle maanagement.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
The realest thing you ever said
There's an implication here which suggests that for some reason, a Japanese studio is inherently incapable of making a huge hit that'll sell in the west. I'm not comfortable with that statement.
Colonel Mustard
Banned
I like Iwata, he's personable. (for a billion-dollar company president) I think NOA staff needs a shakeup though.
Father_Brain
Banned
Yeah, there's a lot of revisionist history on that point. GC missed out on a number of multiplatform titles that gen, and lost a fair amount of multiplatform support over the course of its lifespan (largely due to poor sales of such titles, even relative to userbase size), but it still got far, far more Western multiplats than Wii U seems on track to get at this point.
Think Japanese. Nintendo is trying to lay the groundwork right now. I'd wager that there are some talks regarding Persona 5 what with all the stuff going on between Nintendo and Atlus.
It might be harder, not impossible, do to the cultural makeup of the development staff if you want to it appeal even more so to a western audience. That's the key difference I see. It's why RPGs are different depending which region of the world they come from I believe. JRPG, WRPG, and European RPGs.
MisterHero
Super Member
myself said:
Indeed. NoA even moved their marketing department from Redmond to San Francisco. Should they market their more obscure games here? Yeah.
If we're distributing responsibility to the respective branches, NoE would be responsible for Battalion Wars. I don't know much about them except they localized some Japan-exclusive games.
I just want to know what they're doing with NST. They hired a bunch of guys supposedly, but they've been in limbo for years too.
Okay, but if the Wii was on par with the other consoles they couldn't have released it at $250 and it never would have taken off like it did. Then we'd get the same excuses about the controller being different, and it still wouldn't have gotten the same level of support.
efyu_lemonardo
May I have a cookie?
This is true, and may in fact be a long term strategy for the company. If it is indeed planned, I'd say they're doing a pretty good job at it actually.
Two of Japan's biggest franchises are now Nintendo exclusive, they've returned to dominating the handheld market, and there's a good chance they will be able to gain market share in the console space, as Japanese developers continue to struggle with rising costs and bigger projects.
Meanwhile large scale collaborations with 3rd parties in Japan are on the rise (see Namco, Tecmo) and funding of exclusives from smaller developers also appears to be headed in the right direction (as evidenced by Nintendo funding reasonably successful projects from Mistwalker, Ganbarion and Platinum). Last but not least is the amount of growth the company has seen during the last decade. New studios, new buildings, new teams, you name it.
Also lets not forget Sony is in the worst position its been in years, arguably since the launch of the Playstation brand.
I agree we need more western games (especially exclusives) on Nintendo consoles, but regardless of whether or not you agree with this strategy, you've got to acknowledge the strides they've made in their home territory.
was going to say China Town Wars but someone already said it.
Well, there's Lego City Stories coming this March. It's an exclusive too..
This is an interesting point I've never heard brought up before. Can you elaborate on how Nintendo is different than Sony or MS in this respect?
I'd like to point out that there has been progress in this area. Just Dance, Monster Hunter and of course Dragon Quest are all 3rd party system sellers. (Iwata even went as far as recognizing Just Dance's influence on Wii sales, calling it the key holiday title in 2011 IIRC). And collaborations on exclusive titles such as Scribblenauts Unlimited and Lego City Stories (possibly Rayman Legends as well) are attempting to continue this trend.
Also, so many of you live in these bubbles. Nintendo cannot just go around spending all this money on studios and IP and securing so many exclusives. It's really bad ROI for them.
The truth of the matter is, their fanbase just doesn't support it. And they know this.
You can bitch on forums all you want, but these games just don't sell. You have to look at the return third parties get for their efforts, and even non-traditional first party games struggle to find sales. Games are expensive. Start buying before you start condemning, and you'll get more
Yeah not an exact comparison, but this is kind of what Sony did this gen... and it hasn't really been paying off for them.
They also tried weird stuff like Q-Branch during the Cube era, which didn't bare much fruit for them.
It's not that simple. I think (correct me if I'm wrong, insiders) this is more or less what goes through a developer's head when making those decisions early in a system's life cycle:
1. Our games appeal to a relatively tech-savvy, enthusiast audience with a certain expectation of what cutting edge titles should be like.
2. As such, we need fairly powerful lead development hardware to deliver on our creative vision and our fans' expectations.
3. Nintendo's system is so underpowered that downgrading our games enough for them to be playable is either downright impossible or requires a significant effort on our part.
4. Even if we do somehow manage to deliver on the above, our enthusiast fanbase will probably not settle for a noticeably inferior port and buy the PS/XB versions anyway.
5. Therefore, serious development for a severly underpowered Nintendo system is a waste of our time and resources.
Until the industry shifts from its focus on huge blockbuster titles, that line of thinking won't be entirely wrong and Nintendo will have to adjust if it doesn't want to be pushed out of the market even further.
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