DF: Orbis vs Durango Spec Analysis

BruiserBear said:
I don't get the external PSU hate. The smaller the machine the better. The less heat the better.

I can't wait to see this thing. The combination of it's rumored power and a sleek Sony design has me very intrigued. I want them to give me a reason to not even want the next Xbox. :P

Considering the recent Playstation redesign, and the rumors of a touchpad on the controller, I've still got some skepticism in me regarding how it's all going to come together.
Click to expand...

I also agree on the external SPU.

Im no expert but my PS3 died YLOD. Which is a result of the heat isnt it?

I still have my original PSX and a PS2 slim that works. Both of these had external PSUs and were more reliable than the PS3.

So, I want a reliable system and if an external PSU helps with that, then that is ok with me.

My playstation is not on display in the main living room though, so I dont care what it looks like.
 
thuway said:
I love you Goph, but we have way too many chickens who believe 8 GB GDDR5 is possible in a closed box. Delusions need to be squashed.
Click to expand...

I not expecting more than 4GB but it amazing some people want 8GB .
People would be lucky if Sony could even add 1GB more to the 4GB they already got .
 
chicko1983 said:
I also agree on the external SPU.

Im no expert but my PS3 died YLOD. Which is a result of the heat isnt it?

I still have my original PSX and a PS2 slim that works. Both of these had external PSUs and were more reliable than the PS3.

So, I want a reliable system and if an external PSU helps with that, then that is ok with me.

My playstation is not on display in the main living room though, so I dont care what it looks like.
Click to expand...

PS3 was just a much, much hotter system. Had nothing to do with the PSU being inside (which actually results in better cooling anyway).
 
H_Prestige said:
Just makes sense to me. What cooling mechanism is inside a power brick? There is already cooling inside the system.
Click to expand...

The power brick gives off heat and makes the whole system hotter. As long as an external brick as room to breathe, it's fine without additional cooling. I'm pretty certain having it outside is better for heat management.
 
THE:MILKMAN said:
Wasn't a lot of the blame for RROD/YLOD down to lead free copper? Shouldn't be a problem now.
Click to expand...

Uhhh? I think you mean the lead free solder that was used. It caused contact points to weaken and eventually crack or break from temperatures that would have otherwise been a non issue.

Are they changing the solder used or are you referring to the fact that these systems should run cooler?
 
THE:MILKMAN said:
Wasn't a lot of the blame for RROD/YLOD down to lead free copper? Shouldn't be a problem now.
Click to expand...

The first time it YLOD, I ended up running the heat gun over those silver rectangles (the GPUs) and it worked for about 3 months. Then the second time I did it, it worked for about 2 more weeks and then YLOD.

Not sure what the heat gun did, I think I read that it was re-melting some copper connections inside the silver rectangle thingys and it sort of worked.
 
Graphics Horse said:
'Next Generation Playstation'
Click to expand...
See, I was thinking this too, but if it's that long, I don't know if they can actually keep up that charade. I think they'd rather see headlines that strike you like "Playstation 4 revealed" than "Sony shows off the unnamed next generation Playstation."
 
enzo_gt said:
See, I was thinking this too, but if it's that long, I don't know if they can actually keep up that charade. I think they'd rather see headlines that strike you like "Playstation 4 revealed" than "Sony shows off the unnamed next generation Playstation."
Click to expand...

Isn't this also going to be closer to the PS4 launch than the Vita's was?
 
enzo_gt said:
See, I was thinking this too, but if it's that long, I don't know if they can actually keep up that charade. I think they'd rather see headlines that strike you like "Playstation 4 revealed" than "Sony shows off the unnamed next generation Playstation."
Click to expand...

I guess with it being in NYC it might be a bit different to their previous Japan based reveals.

RoboPlato said:
Isn't this also going to be closer to the PS4 launch than the Vita's was?
Click to expand...

Eh, 1-2 months maybe?
 
chicko1983 said:
I also agree on the external SPU.

Im no expert but my PS3 died YLOD. Which is a result of the heat isnt it?

I still have my original PSX and a PS2 slim that works. Both of these had external PSUs and were more reliable than the PS3.

So, I want a reliable system and if an external PSU helps with that, then that is ok with me.

My playstation is not on display in the main living room though, so I dont care what it looks like.
Click to expand...

PS3 YLOD is the same as the 360 RROD in most cases. It's related to heat, yes. More specifically it's a combination of heat and the fact that they are required to use cheap, lead-free solder on the chips. The constant heating and cooling process causes the solder balls on the CPU and/or GPU to become weak over time. This in itself isn't a big issue. But since heat also causes the motherboard to warp slightly, these weakened solder balls can actually separate from from the motherboard, thus causing the YLOD/RROD.

Less heat or the use of leaded solder is the only way to fix that issue. Any PS3 still alive using 90 nm chips is basically killing itself over time thanks to all that heat. Consider yourself lucky if you still have a working launch system. I reflowed the solder on mine several times but that's only a temporary fix. The solder on my PS3 is now so weak that it lasts less than five minutes after a reflow, so the solder balls need to be replaced entirely... which is expensive. :(

The PS4 will probably be using really efficient chips compared to launch PS3. You certainly won't have to worry about the CPU. And since apparently the GPU is based on a Radeon 7xxx, I don't see any heat issues there either. A lot of the heat on a GPU like that comes from the MOSFET chips, and I don't even know how those translate to a console. Additionally, there are things that can be done to strengthen the motherboard in order to keep it from flexing so much under heat. If the PS3 motherboard were mounted in such a way to reduce flex under heat, the YLOD would be extremely rare.

Anyway, sorry for the long answer lol.
 
RoboPlato said:
The power brick gives off heat and makes the whole system hotter. As long as an external brick as room to breathe, it's fine without additional cooling. I'm pretty certain having it outside is better for heat management.
Click to expand...

360 power brick has a fan in it for cooling. Don't think the Wii U one does as it's all enclosed.
 
chicko1983 said:
The first time it YLOD, I ended up running the heat gun over those silver rectangles (the GPUs) and it worked for about 3 months. Then the second time I did it, it worked for about 2 more weeks and then YLOD.

Not sure what the heat gun did, I think I read that it was re-melting some copper connections inside the silver rectangle thingys and it sort of worked.
Click to expand...

Probably reflowing the solder a bit.
 
enzo_gt said:
See, I was thinking this too, but if it's that long, I don't know if they can actually keep up that charade. I think they'd rather see headlines that strike you like "Playstation 4 revealed" than "Sony shows off the unnamed next generation Playstation."
Click to expand...

Yeah, it could go either way on the 20th.

I think with the NGP Sony just hadn't finalized the name and logo at that point, rather than a case of them withholding information. Perhaps the ps4 is further along in the marketing department.
 
I think this is one of the few styles that can pull off those dimensions and still look good. I don't think a regular box looking thing would do.

playstation_4_by_ivul-d5glo07.png
Click to expand...
 
They have to give out a name on the 20th.

If they don't give out a name, they got a go with a code name and it's too close to release to give out code names.
There would be too much confusion.
 
chicko1983 said:
The first time it YLOD, I ended up running the heat gun over those silver rectangles (the GPUs) and it worked for about 3 months. Then the second time I did it, it worked for about 2 more weeks and then YLOD.

Not sure what the heat gun did, I think I read that it was re-melting some copper connections inside the silver rectangle thingys and it sort of worked.
Click to expand...

The heat gun basically re-melted the cracked solder, which due to physics n' stuff reformed into balls. The reason it only lasted three months is because reflowing doesn't actually strengthen the solder. In fact it weakens it. If you were to keep reflowing you'd find that unless you keep your PS3 VERY cool, it will keep YLODing faster and faster. I was amazingly able to play through Red Dead by taking the PS3 innards out of the case, using a shoe string to hold the BR drive in place, and putting the whole thing up in an open bedroom window to be cooled off by the cold night air.

Foxix said:
Uhhh? I think you mean the lead free solder that was used. It caused contact points to weaken and eventually crack or break from temperatures that would have otherwise been a non issue.

Are they changing the solder used or are you referring to the fact that these systems should run cooler?
Click to expand...

I think the solder is required to be lead-free as a health/pollution thing. On PS3 you can have the lead-free balls replaced with leaded ones, but it's about $100 and very few businesses have the equipment to do it.
 
Foxix said:
Uhhh? I think you mean the lead free solder that was used. It caused contact points to weaken and eventually crack or break from temperatures that would have otherwise been a non issue.

Are they changing the solder used or are you referring to the fact that these systems should run cooler?
Click to expand...

Sorry. Didn't think it sounded right. No idea if they're changing, just that I know the transition to lead free solder caused problems for the electronics industry for quite a while.
 
Piggus said:
The heat gun basically re-melted the cracked solder, which due to physics n' stuff reformed into balls. The reason it only lasted three months is because reflowing doesn't actually strengthen the solder. In fact it weakens it. If you were to keep reflowing you'd find that unless you keep your PS3 VERY cool, it will keep YLODing faster and faster. I was amazingly able to play through Red Dead by taking the PS3 innards out of the case, using a shoe string to hold the BR drive in place, and putting the whole thing up in an open bedroom window to be cooled off by the cold night air.
Click to expand...

Hahaha. Holy shit. Please tell me you have a picture of that.
 
Piggus said:
The heat gun basically re-melted the cracked solder, which due to physics n' stuff reformed into balls. The reason it only lasted three months is because reflowing doesn't actually strengthen the solder. In fact it weakens it. If you were to keep reflowing you'd find that unless you keep your PS3 VERY cool, it will keep YLODing faster and faster. I was amazingly able to play through Red Dead by taking the PS3 innards out of the case, using a shoe string to hold the BR drive in place, and putting the whole thing up in an open bedroom window to be cooled off by the cold night air.



I think the solder is required to be lead-free as a health/pollution thing. On PS3 you can have the lead-free balls replaced with leaded ones, but it's about $100 and very few businesses have the equipment to do it.
Click to expand...

haha.

just saw the picture, looks like something I was thinking about doing...
 
RoboPlato said:
The power brick gives off heat and makes the whole system hotter. As long as an external brick as room to breathe, it's fine without additional cooling. I'm pretty certain having it outside is better for heat management.
Click to expand...
Yeah thats what I always thought. I was glad to hear the power source is external, I dont get what the issue is. It will no doubt greatly reduce the heat inside the console.
 
Piggus said:
PS3 YLOD is the same as the 360 RROD in most cases. It's related to heat, yes. More specifically it's a combination of heat and the fact that they are required to use cheap, lead-free solder on the chips. The constant heating and cooling process causes the solder balls on the CPU and/or GPU to become weak over time. This in itself isn't a big issue. But since heat also causes the motherboard to warp slightly, these weakened solder balls can actually separate from from the motherboard, thus causing the YLOD/RROD.

Less heat or the use of leaded solder is the only way to fix that issue. Any PS3 still alive using 90 nm chips is basically killing itself over time thanks to all that heat. Consider yourself lucky if you still have a working launch system. I reflowed the solder on mine several times but that's only a temporary fix. The solder on my PS3 is now so weak that it lasts less than five minutes after a reflow, so the solder balls need to be replaced entirely... which is expensive. :(

The PS4 will probably be using really efficient chips compared to launch PS3. You certainly won't have to worry about the CPU. And since apparently the GPU is based on a Radeon 7xxx, I don't see any heat issues there either. A lot of the heat on a GPU like that comes from the MOSFET chips, and I don't even know how those translate to a console. Additionally, there are things that can be done to strengthen the motherboard in order to keep it from flexing so much under heat. If the PS3 motherboard were mounted in such a way to reduce flex under heat, the YLOD would be extremely rare.

Anyway, sorry for the long answer lol.
Click to expand...

RROD wasn't just due to leadfree solder (being used for the first time btw), it was the combination of the solder and the xclamp design twisting the motherboard.
The twisting put stress on the solder until it eventually let go.

Powerful pc gpus that use 2-3x the power of the one in ps3 have been just fine with the leadfree solder that has been used everywhere for many years now.
Pc users leave their pc on all day every day for years and years without coming anywhere near to a fraction of the catastrophic failure rate of xbox 360s.

Leadfree solder isn't an issue at all anymore. There is no arbitrary power cap for reliability due to solder..
There's no need to make excuses for poor design and build quality in xbox 360 or to try n use it as an argument for what you think will or won't be in ps4/xbox3
 
SneakyStephan said:
RROD wasn't just due to leadfree solder (being used for the first time btw), it was the combination of the solder and the xclamp design twisting the motherboard.
The twisting put stress on the solder until it eventually let go.

Powerful pc gpus that use 2-3x the power of the one in ps3 have been just fine with the leadfree solder that has been used everywhere for many years now.
Pc users leave their pc on all day every day for years and years without coming anywhere near to a fraction of the catastrophic failure rate of xbox 360s.

Leadfree solder isn't an issue at all anymore. There is no arbitrary power cap for reliability due to solder..
There's no need to make excuses for poor design and build quality in xbox 360.
Click to expand...

Good to know. Not making excuses by the way. I thought the 360 design in terms of airflow was terrible. Still, from everything I've read, the lead-free solder was a contributing factor (though certainly not THE main cause.) Like I said, if the boards were not allowed to warp as much under heat, it wouldn't have been an issue.
 
Piggus said:
Good to know. Not making excuses by the way. I thought the 360 design in terms of airflow was terrible. Still, from everything I've read, the lead-free solder was a contributing factor (though certainly not THE main cause.) Like I said, if the boards were not allowed to warp as much under heat, it wouldn't have been an issue.
Click to expand...

Talk less if you don't know enough.
 
Piggus said:
PS3 YLOD is the same as the 360 RROD in most cases. It's related to heat, yes. More specifically it's a combination of heat and the fact that they are required to use cheap, lead-free solder on the chips. The constant heating and cooling process causes the solder balls on the CPU and/or GPU to become weak over time. This in itself isn't a big issue. But since heat also causes the motherboard to warp slightly, these weakened solder balls can actually separate from from the motherboard, thus causing the YLOD/RROD.

Less heat or the use of leaded solder is the only way to fix that issue. Any PS3 still alive using 90 nm chips is basically killing itself over time thanks to all that heat. Consider yourself lucky if you still have a working launch system. I reflowed the solder on mine several times but that's only a temporary fix. The solder on my PS3 is now so weak that it lasts less than five minutes after a reflow, so the solder balls need to be replaced entirely... which is expensive. :(

The PS4 will probably be using really efficient chips compared to launch PS3. You certainly won't have to worry about the CPU. And since apparently the GPU is based on a Radeon 7xxx, I don't see any heat issues there either. A lot of the heat on a GPU like that comes from the MOSFET chips, and I don't even know how those translate to a console. Additionally, there are things that can be done to strengthen the motherboard in order to keep it from flexing so much under heat. If the PS3 motherboard were mounted in such a way to reduce flex under heat, the YLOD would be extremely rare.

Anyway, sorry for the long answer lol.
Click to expand...

Thankfully they won't use lead anymore. That stuff gets into the air and causes health problems. Brain damage anyone?
 
abic said:
Talk less if you don't know enough.
Click to expand...

C'mon, mang. I wouldn't open up my PS3 to try to fix a problem if I didn't know what was causing the problem. If you do your research you'll find that leaded solder isn't as prone to becoming weak over time. That's why anyone who re-balls PS3s and 360s always uses leaded solder. It is true that the solder isn't the only issue. Which I said.
 
SneakyStephan said:
RROD wasn't just due to leadfree solder (being used for the first time btw), it was the combination of the solder and the xclamp design twisting the motherboard.
The twisting put stress on the solder until it eventually let go.

Powerful pc gpus that use 2-3x the power of the one in ps3 have been just fine with the leadfree solder that has been used everywhere for many years now.
Pc users leave their pc on all day every day for years and years without coming anywhere near to a fraction of the catastrophic failure rate of xbox 360s.

Leadfree solder isn't an issue at all anymore. There is no arbitrary power cap for reliability due to solder..
There's no need to make excuses for poor design and build quality in xbox 360 or to try n use it as an argument for what you think will or won't be in ps4/xbox3
Click to expand...

18 months of nvidia GPUs suffered from the exact same problem. And consoles are tighter confines than most PC cases. Laptops would be a better comparison, and what do you know — laptops suffer from much higher failure rates.
 
grumble said:
Thankfully they won't use lead anymore. That stuff gets into the air and causes health problems. Brain damage anyone?
Click to expand...

You would literally have to have 20-30 failing systems at the same time for the small amount of lead in each system for it to concentrate enough in a room to become toxic.

But anyways, as fun as it is to read about speculation threads, it doesn't beat that fresh new info straight from the dogs mouth fanboy flame war. I am eagerly awaiting the GAF meltdowns/server crashes in the PS4 and Durango reveal threads. I'm on mobile, but I got my popcorn ready.
 
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