State of the Union 2013 |OT| less exciting than a cabin in Big Bear

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Relix said:
Aaah, truly spoken as someone who has never tried to set up his own businesses and go through its hardship. Fantastic.
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Think of the poor plantation owners. How will they survive if they have to pay their employees?

No, theyll probably close up shop, meaning no more food in america.

:(
 
once again, I'd much rather we focus on how to lower the cost of living instead of increasing minimum wage. I can't speak for all industries, but I can tell you with absolute certainty, as my family runs a small independent grocery store, that EVERYTHING does indeed increase in cost to offset minimum wage increase. Our vendors flat out tell us ahead of time that they are increasing the price to adjust for minimum wage increases. A .50 increase can indeed shutter a small business. Especially when the owner of the business makes less than his employees, and less than he did 25 years ago. I speak from experience.
 
RDreamer said:
It's not politically feasible.

Doing these things would be very very economically feasible.
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How? Education alone is such a huge issue that if the federal government could actually fix the majority of the system, we are looking at an unfathomable amount of money, not to mention the creation of numerous agencies to overlook the process. And all of that is for not unless you can get decent teachers at every level, which would require higher wages to make it a more desirable job along the lines of Doctor or Lawyer. That is a single issue that is so complex when it comes to 50 states, many of which would be resistant, unions, and the amount of talent it would require to create such a thing. That is a 20 year plan at best. And again that is one issue. Yet it was maybe a couple of minutes of his speech and we will probably never see an honest bill reflecting such an intention.
 
Teknoman said:
Bingo. Of course if everyone has the "bright" idea to just raise the standard price on everything, then we're right back where we started. Honestly minimum wage should be enough to have the minimum life necessities. A place to live, food, and clothing. And for those that arent old enough to get that, yet old enough to work, well they'd just end up putting the majority of their money into various businesses as consumers anyway.
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I worked for McDonald's for 7 years thrugh high school and college and every time they raised minimum wage all the prices on food went up, (and all stores around) so raising minimum wage doesn't solve shit as long as greedy fuck want to keep same margins
 
vas_a_morir said:
once again, I'd much rather we focus on how to lower the cost of living instead of increasing minimum wage. I can't speak for all industries, but I can tell you with absolute certainty, as my family runs a small independent grocery store, that EVERYTHING does indeed increase in cost to offset minimum wage increase. Our vendors flat out tell us ahead of time that they are increasing the price to adjust for minimum wage increases.
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Do you want the standard of living to decrease as well? Just curious, because that's about the only way I can see for the cost of living to decrease short of massive government programs to pay for things like housing
 
Does anyone know when the Republican address starts? Also, is it going to be on NPR? I need to know a good place to watch/listen.
 
On the topic of preschool, here's Melinda Moyer:

slate said:
It’s hard to tease out the effects of preschool on a child. Part of the problem is self-selection: Compared with kids who skip preschool, kids who attend usually have more well-to-do, encouraging parents who read and do puzzles with them at home. Children who don’t go to preschool are usually from more disadvantaged families, which means they watch lots of TV and are yelled at more than they are praised, which some researchers believe can stunt cognitive development....
But what does all this have to do with preschool? Research suggests that preschool only benefits children from these disadvantaged families (in particular, families that are below the poverty line, whose mothers are uneducated, or who are racial minorities). This could be because preschool acts as a kind of “equalizer,” ensuring that for at least a few hours a day, these kids get the same high-quality interaction with adults as more advantaged children do, which helps to even the developmental playing field.
For instance, in a study published last year, University of Texas psychologist Elliot Tucker-Drob assessed a number of different characteristics in a group of more than 600 pairs of twins. He looked at the scores the children got at age 2 on tests of mental ability; whether or not they went to preschool; how “stimulating” their mothers’ interactions were with them; their socio-economic status and race; and finally, how well they scored on reading and math tests at age 5. Because he was comparing what happened to identical twins, who share all of their genes, and fraternal twins, who on average share half (yet both sets typically grow up together), Tucker-Drob could home in on the effects of environment and genetics on the kids’ outcomes.
A hell of a lot of math later, Tucker-Drob reported that the home environments of children who do not attend preschool have a much larger influence on kindergarten academic ability than do the home environments of preschoolers. In other words, a bad home situation becomes a much smaller problem when your kid goes to preschool; when you have a good home environment, preschool doesn’t really matter. (Granted, children from poor families tend to go to lower quality preschools than wealthy kids do, but for them, a bad preschool is usually better than nothing.)
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http://www.slate.com/articles/doubl...researching_early_education_philosophies.html

This is what I was referencing earlier about how preschool is most important for those kids least likely to attend it and least important for those kids who tend to actually go. And the more rich white families seek it out, the less accessible it becomes for the poorer kids who actually benefit! So a public preschool system is a huge, huge win, because it reaches the kids who really need it. Over time, even, it might drain money away from private preschools once people start figuring out they don't do much.
 
G'Nite GAF, don't hate me. I am just discussing why I don't think its ideal. I am not against it, I just think it will make it hard for some business to survive and affect the bottom line. Also, start ups. I have no data to directly back up these claims of course. Actually, a stair-stepped increase would work better, like last time. From 7.25 to 8.00 and then finally 9 in about a year. Let's business take the hit but also soak up from the increase of income many would have.
 
Carpe Libertatem said:
Do you want the standard of living to decrease as well? Just curious, because that's about the only way I can see for the cost of living to decrease short of massive government programs to pay for things like housing
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Cheaper utilities would help. I'm no conservative, so I would love to see the government regulate shit more. I would love to see the government work to prevent the decimation of communities by large out of state retailers that pay employees shit and gouge the prices once all competition is destroyed.

As I said before, I'd love to see a minimum wage increase if there was some regulation that would help offset the advantage large retailers would get over small independent businesses.
 
Fox News is so hilarious.

"Some people on the chat are saying the gun control bit was overdramatic, but that's up to them!"

"I didn't hear Benghazi, did you?"

"I think a lot of people are disappointed that Obama didn't take responsibility for Benghazi."
 
Relix said:
G'Nite GAF, don't hate me. I am just discussing why I don't think its ideal. I am not against it, I just think it will make it hard for some business to survive and affect the bottom line. Also, start ups. I have no data to directly back up these claims of course. Actually, a stair-stepped increase would work better, like last time. From 7.25 to 8.00 and then finally 9 in about a year. Let's business take the hit but also soak up from the increase of income many would have.
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The stair step is way behind. It will be hard at first, but even small business can afford a higher min wage because even they are getting profit increases.
 
RDreamer said:
And if you're a small business doing it, you're probably fucking stupid. You need all the help and energy you can get, and if you get your employees on your side contributing and excited then you will grow. If you pay them dirt and treat them as such, your shit's going to suck.
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Honestly, as much as I would love to make at least double the minimum wage myself, I can understand an employer has certain obligations to keep the business afloat. But the trend I see is to hire more people than you need, keep them all part time/below part-time, and pay them a pittance while asking increasingly more from them in terms of work.

I'm okay with working a little harder, sharing a bit of the burden that might be required with asking more of fewer employees, if my pay was justified.

So let's say instead of six employees at 9.00 at 15-20 hours a piece, how about pay three at 15.00 at 30-40? I know I'm simplifying this to some degree, but it seems like an overall more workable system, because the small increase in total pay would motivate employees more and empower them to spend, which, in a large enough ecosystem would bring in more revenue.
 
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