State of the Union 2013 |OT| less exciting than a cabin in Big Bear

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bounchfx said:
Thanks guys, good to know. Just because I don't remember shit doesn't mean it's not important. I went, it probably contributed somewhere in my life XD.
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Its important to start early so you dont get "behind". Kids that enter kindergarten behind get in a perpetual downward spiral that can last through high school. If someone enters middle school that is on the level of a 2nd-3rd grader its really hard to make that middle school catch them up (same for high school).
 
Relix said:
In a true free market the government won't set up a minimum wage and the market would correct itself*.

*If we had self decent beings which it seems we don't and try to fuck everyone in the ass. The point is your "free market" line doesn't work when the government regulates half the stuff you can do.
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"Free" doesn't or at least shouldn't mean do whatever the fuck you want. Free market means the ability to compete. Once again, how is it fair that the employees should shoulder the risk of startup business ventures instead of the owner? How is it fair that one can employ someone full time and not pay them enough money to actually pay rent and buy food? Your employee is giving you time and effort that can't go anywhere else, why do you get to devalue that time and effort just because "startups are hard?" If you can't afford it, tough shit. Take out a loan, find a better business model, but IMHO being a startup is NOT a valid excuse to fuck over your employees.
 
C4Lukins said:
Look at how many points he has hit. Instead of focusing on 3 or 4 major reforms, he is bringing up every single talking point relating to just about every subject that is a concern for the American people. I mean there is nothing to disagree with concerning what he is saying. It is just not economically feasible in any form, and he is simply going through every issue that our country faces and pretending like we have a solution.
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It is possible and, much of the spending he's suggested wont raise deficits. Simply because you choose to ignore this doesn't make you right. Other posters have also expanded on this.
 
pigeon said:
I own my own business, and if you're paying your employees less than nine bucks an hour, your business sucks and your employees don't want to work for you.
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And if you're a small business doing it, you're probably fucking stupid. You need all the help and energy you can get, and if you get your employees on your side contributing and excited then you will grow. If you pay them dirt and treat them as such, your shit's going to suck.
 
RDreamer said:
Meh, a lot of the actual small businesses I've talked to tend to treat their employees rather well, as an integral part of their growth. A lot pay a bit more. It's the shitty big box stores and fast food places that crush things down more and pay almost nothing. Coincidentally they can also afford to actually pay more. McDonald's and Wal-Mart can cry me a goddamned river.
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And I wholeheartedly agreed. Any good business owner knows that paying their employees good wages is NEEDED to sustain bigger growth. I just can't understand asshole employers that insist on crapping on their employees. At the business I ran (sold my part) we used to pay our guys $12 an hour because we could manage it. Yes, its not that much, but it was far more than the rest paid theirs. Ours were happy, and identified themselves with the business. Your employees are your army, treat them well and they will go to war with you.

CrunchyFrog said:
"Free" doesn't or at least shouldn't mean do whatever the fuck you want. Free market means the ability to compete. Once again, how is it fair that the employees should shoulder the risk of startup business ventures instead of the owner? How is it fair that one can employ someone full time and not pay them enough money to actually pay rent and buy food? Your employee is giving you time and effort that can't go anywhere else, why do you get to devalue that time and effort just because "startups are hard?" If you can't afford it, tough shit. Take out a loan, find a better business model, but IMHO being a startup is NOT a valid excuse to fuck over your employees.
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With this line of thought you'd take off comission small stores or diners in rural areas (for example). Yes, city business may/will manage, but others won't. Its not fair that X person spent $50000 to build his own diner in say Kansas, and go broke because of a sudden wage impact. I perfectly understand you though
 
Brinbe said:
Good luck following that, Marco.

lol, his response is gonna be overshadowed by Dorner
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this is kinda hilarious

His big convention speech was completely overshadowed by Clint Eastwood and his chair and now his SOTU speech is being overshadowed by this shit
 
How many things will actually get done and passed? Let's hope for at least some. Immigration reform is likely, but minimum wage tied to cost of living? No way, unfortunately.
 
It is depressing that so much of what was in that speech will never happen.
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But hopefully they can make some progress.
 
Hello! My name is Marco Rubio. I voted against the Violence Against Women Act just today! Now, I'd like to tell you why gun control is silly, prolonged war is great, and raising the minimum wage is horribly foolish!
 
Skytylz said:
I missed some, but did he ever mention same-sex marriage?
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No, but its kind of implied when the DoD says they're waiting for the law to catch up to their plan to extend full benefits when Congress catches up. either way its due for a supreme court hearing in the not too distant future (DOMA is being reviewed next month).
 
Tabris said:
Minimum wage does not hurt businesses. I don't know why Americans treat their own so poorly but those making minimum wage are some of the best transactional consumers as they are not investing in their homes and retirement. So you increase minimum wage, and those transactional consumers are spending more money, thus those local businesses make the money back that they are spending on their employees. You create an economic upturn cycle.

Everyone wins. Trickle down economics DOES NOT FUCKING WORK.* Man, why can't Americans get that through their head.

This is coming from a Canadian who is happy to pay a bit more in taxes because his government ensures all Canadian citizens have a better quality of life.

*Except for the top end
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Bingo. Of course if everyone has the "bright" idea to just raise the standard price on everything, then we're right back where we started. Honestly minimum wage should be enough to have the minimum life necessities. A place to live, food, and clothing. And for those that arent old enough to get that, yet old enough to work, well they'd just end up putting the majority of their money into various businesses as consumers anyway.
 
Relix said:
Aaah, truly spoken as someone who has never tried to set up his own businesses and go through its hardship. Fantastic.
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So..........because a business is struggling or starting up, that should give them a free pass to pay the people that work for them peanuts?
 
C4Lukins said:
Look at how many points he has hit. Instead of focusing on 3 or 4 major reforms, he is bringing up every single talking point relating to just about every subject that is a concern for the American people. I mean there is nothing to disagree with concerning what he is saying. It is just not economically feasible in any form, and he is simply going through every issue that our country faces and pretending like we have a solution.

Edit: I mean if he could just get gay rights, gun reform, education, and renewable energy pushed forward, that would be amazing. But instead we get this BS where our President is pretending that he can fix everything and the kitchen sink. There is no honesty in this platform.
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He made it a point at the beginning of the speech to press home the point that every proposal that he was making during the State of the Union address wouldn't increase the deficit. Like you said, a lot of the ideas that Obama proposed would be a matter of shifting resources, and not necessarily creating new things.
 
In general, good talking points in this SotU, but actions speak louder than words. Call me when we get some real policy in place then we'll talk.
 
Relix said:
Aaah, truly spoken as someone who has never tried to set up his own businesses and go through its hardship. Fantastic.
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If you can't survive without paying employees a sub-living wage, fuck off, close up and go apply for assistant manager at Target.
 
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