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[Jack_AG]

Haha I loved the weightiness though. The whole feeling as you moved around.

Weight is one thing - Battlefield does a good job of making your character feel firmly planted without inducing horrid amounts of latency between your actions and what you see on screen.

Edit:
I've posted DF links on the previous page and remain committed to my stance that latency is bad, it is not a positive/purposeful design decision and we should be looking to limit it as much as possible. With this I am not going to run around the KZ2 control subject as it is a touchy subject for some.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

Weight is one thing - Battlefield does a good job of making your character feel firmly planted without inducing horrid amounts of latency between your actions and what you see on screen.

Thats a good point I also love BF. Even playing the MP(I had a monster KD ratio in KZ2 almost as good as my CS days) though I never felt like I wasn't in complete control or that the game wasn't responsive enough.

 

[nib95]

KZ2 Beta was among the best multiplayer I've ever played. Only Counter Strike source is better.

 

[Gorillaz]

I loved those controls sooooo much

They were a tad too heavy. KZ3 got it down

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

KZ2 Beta was among the best multiplayer I've ever played. Only Counter Strike source is better.

Nib you are my boy.

 

[SniperHunter]

KZ2 Beta was among the best multiplayer I've ever played. Only Counter Strike source is better.

how does it compare to the final version? I was playing KZ2 multi this morning hehe

 

[Jack_AG]

KZ2 Beta was among the best multiplayer I've ever played. Only Counter Strike source is better.

I was actually featured in an IGN screenshot and video of the beta ha! I became a star for but a moment

 

[rdrr gnr]

It's nice to have opinions, but this is a Killzone thread after all.

So it's okay to deny reality?

 

[Piggus]

they are bullshots

True, but a good PC will be able to pull off that kind of IQ easily with a little bit of downsampling and AA.

 

[Goodacre0081]

I loved those controls sooooo much

some people might have liked them but I was frustrated with the lag and how it punished me for being used to twitchier games.

 

[Eideka]

I really don't think Battlefield and Killzone are in the same league regarding sound design....Having played both (KZ 2/3 and BF3) I think BF 3 is miles ahead in that department.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Pc would have to be pretty powerful to run that with downsampling at the moment though

 

[Skyzard]

116ms:
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-vs-killzone-3?page=2

Mind you we need to add display lag to the fray for the end-user. Dependent on the TV/Monitor and does vary from model to model:
http://www.displaylag.com/display-database/

Nice find, thanks again - 116 is okay down from 150.. Compared to Cod it sounds pretty horrible but many people said 3 felt a lot better than 2 so I'll give it a go, who knows SH might be even better. But damn, that seems high still. I thought it would be really noticeable after 50ms or so..

 

[mr_nothin]

Weight is one thing - Battlefield does a good job of making your character feel firmly planted without inducing horrid amounts of latency between your actions and what you see on screen.

Edit:
I've posted DF links on the previous page and remain committed to my stance that latency is bad, it is not a positive/purposeful design decision and we should be looking to limit it as much as possible. With this I am not going to run around the KZ2 control subject as it is a touchy subject for some.

I think people often get this mixed up. It's not about feeling like we're planeted, it's more about the weight of the gun. Battlefield still feels light compared to KZ2. I want KZ2's weight, not battlefield's w/e you want to call it.

some people might have liked them but I was frustrated with the lag and how it punished me for being used to twitchier games.

It wasnt a twitch shooter and the devs said as much....not to sound condescending.

 

[Jack_AG]

I think people often get this mixed up. It's not about feeling like we're planeted, it's more about the weight of the gun. Battlefield still feels light compared to KZ2. I want KZ2's weight, not battlefield's w/e you want to call it.

No. I'm not getting it mixed up, lol. You cannot have a weight to a gun unless the character's movement is also firmly planted like he belongs there.

What's the point of a weighty gun when you're on ice skates gliding across the field? Movement of the player and weapon weight go hand in hand and yes - BF feels heavy depending on the weapon - even if you turn acceleration up. Going from a sub to an LMG to a rocket launcher is worlds of difference. Crouching, proning, standing up, jumping, etc - they all feel like your character is firmly planted in the world around him.

Even non-shooters like the Souls series do this and that's a 3rd person action RPG. Your character feels like they are in the world wielding the weapons they have.

 

[Moosichu]

True, but a good PC will be able to pull off that kind of IQ easily with a little bit of downsampling and AA.

I could be wrong, but I always got the impression that Ubisoft messed with their bullshots in photoshop as well. If someone could clarify, that would be great.

 

[Goodacre0081]

It wasnt a twitch shooter and the devs said as much....not to sound condescending.

but no other game comes close to the delay that it had. why go so far with that aspect on realism but still have regenerating health or magazines that magically saves your ammo when reloading too early? it felt like an excuse, something to try and cover up the fact that they fucked up the controls and couldn't fix ,even with a patch.

 

[madmaxx350]

I really don't think Battlefield and Killzone are in the same league regarding sound design....Having played both (KZ 2/3 and BF3) I think BF 3 is miles ahead in that department.

That's cause they arent lol. BF3's in another league.

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

That's cause they arent lol. BF3's in another league.

Yeah BF3 is amazing in that department.

 

[Dennis]

 

[BruceLeeRoy]

There are going to be some fun setups in this game.

 

[xenorevlis]

That's cause they arent lol. BF3's in another league.

Yes and no. I think both are doing some very interesting things and while the sound quality is much more enticing on BF3, they are both very awesome in practice.

The fact that we've gotten to the point this generation where games can use advanced simulation to bounce sound from across the map into the building you're in with the proper effects of being in closed space vs open field is amazing.

 

[fanboi]

Dennis, sing me the song of your people.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

I'm pretty disappointed at 30FPS. I was hoping they could get 60.

Sonic for the Sega Genesis ran at 60fps. FPS is a design choice, not necessarily a HW limitation. The PS4 could have had a GeForce Titan, Core i7, 16gb of ram and they'd still go for 30FPS

 

[CitizenCope]

So COD is the only fps you play then.

For me, just about. Not sure what Halo is doing right but it's the only mp fps at 30fps that I can play. Honest question, how can two games at 30fps feel so different? I felt KZ3 was a choppy mess online. I want 60fps so bad. =(

 

[Seventy_X_Seven]

There was a post few pages back claiming GG did sound design better than DICE.

No.

Definitely not better than DICE, Battlefield sound effects are the best there are. But Killzone sounds effects are really up there as well, better than most games.

 

[artist]

KZ2 Beta was among the best multiplayer I've ever played. Only Counter Strike source is better.

Sad you missed out on BF3.

 

[nhlducks35]

Direct captures from the downloaded trailer.

 

[nib95]

For me, just about. Not sure what Halo is doing right but it's the only mp fps at 30fps that I can play. Honest question, how can two games at 30fps feel so different? I felt KZ3 was a choppy mess online. I want 60fps so bad. =(

Lol convenient. Halo is fine at 30fps, but other shooters aren't. The funny thing is, Halo also has some of the highest controller lag of the big shooters too.

Sad you missed out on BF3.

Meh, not in the same league for me. But different strokes. I know GAF rags on COD, but I actually really enjoy COD too.

 

[Mr.Squirrel]

Lol convenient. Halo is fine at 30fps, but other shooters aren't. The funny thing is, Halo also has some of the highest controller lag of the big shooters too.



Meh, not in the same league for me. But different strokes. I know GAF rags on COD, but I actually really enjoy COD too.

GAF hates everything.

 

[Jack_AG]

Halo also has some of the highest controller lag of the big shooters

Digital Foundry says it had the lowest at 100ms. Look at the links I posted up top and the previous page before making these claims.

 

[DR2K]

Sonic for the Sega Genesis ran at 60fps. FPS is a design choice, not necessarily a HW limitation. The PS4 could have had a GeForce Titan, Core i7, 16gb of ram and they'd still go for 30FPS

Why? 30 FPS exists because it's the LCD. If the hardware is capable then it should aim for a more fluid fps.

 

[nib95]

Digital Foundry says it had the lowest at 100ms. Look at the links I posted up top and the previous page before making these claims.

Huh, if it's the same article as I'm thinking, doesn't every other shooter on the list bar KZ2 have less input lag? It's actually even 150ms when jumping too.

 

[ButchCat]

I would absolutely love the prospect of aerial combat in KZ:SF multiplayer.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Didnt Cerny say the new Dualshock had some fancy secret sauce to reduce controller lag?

Apparently everything has secret sauce these days. I heard MS has some secret sauce to make box art not suck ass.

 

[Seventy_X_Seven]

Sad you missed out on BF3.

Warzone is the best game mode to come out of this generation though. I'm really shocked other shooters haven't tried to copy it, though Uncharted 3 somewhat did.

I really do like BF3 though, but characters and guns feel extremely light making the gameplay very twitchy in my opinion. Still fun.

 

[flipswitch]

Direct captures from the downloaded trailer.

Has those been bullshotted? The AA looks too good to be true.

 

[Scrabble]

Why? 30 FPS exists because it's the LCD. If the hardware is capable then it should aim for a more fluid fps.

No it's a design decision. I don't mean to be rude but I'm getting tired of people constantly spouting they want 60 fps and still have no clue what that actually entails. Video games 50 years from now on super computers will still be 30 fps because they will always be able to push more visually at 30 frames then at 60.

 

[i-Lo]

Has those been bullshotted? The AA looks too good to be true.

Those are from the trailer directly. I hope that is clear enough for you.

 

[Dennis]

Has those been bullshotted? The AA looks too good to be true.

They are 400 x 225 pixels.........

 

[nib95]

It's compressed to hell and is a bit blurry from motion blur but... dat rubble.

Seriously, looks amazing. Compared to the rubble in games this gen, it's a refreshing change. That geometry!

 

[CitizenCope]

Lol convenient. Halo is fine at 30fps, but other shooters aren't. The funny thing is, Halo also has some of the highest controller lag of the big shooters too.

Convenient? What is this? I must be a fanboy right? Just being honest. Characters have more animation or something in Halo making the 30fps ok in my book. I love the idea of The Battlefield series but on consoles the character animations are the furthest thing from smooth so Im stuck with COD. Just wish 60fps would become the go to frame rate for shooters next gen. Off to a bad start.

 

[flipswitch]

They are 400 x 225 pixels.........

Not when you click on them.

 

[Dennis]

Not when you click on them.

Browsing GAF shouldn't feel like work.

 

[Jack_AG]

Huh, if it's the same article as I'm thinking, doesn't every other shooter on the list bar KZ2 have less input lag? It's actually even 150ms when jumping too.

A few others have more, actually. But its the combined latency+weight that hits some people hard. I love weight. Love it in games. Shit - the first time playing Demon's Souls I was surprised to see how great it felt to move. Not just being dedicated to an attack or movement, but how everything was tied together visually - really helped improve immersion and make you feel like your actions counted. Love weight - but that has nothing to do with responsiveness.

I dont make engines so I can't comment on why there is so much latency - I just script using them - but I hope that video output latency is reduced in the upcoming gen.

 

[gogogow]

Has those been bullshotted? The AA looks too good to be true.

Look at the shots Dennis posted. They are probably using FXAA/MLAA. With 8GB ram, I hope they will use at least 4xMSAA in the final build.

 

[nib95]

Convenient? What is this? I must be a fanboy right? Just being honest. Characters have more animation or something in Halo making the 30fps ok in my book. I love the idea of The Battlefield series but on consoles the character animations are the furthest thing from smooth so Im stuck with COD. Just wish 60fps would become the go to frame rate for shooters next gen. Off to a bad start.

What about Gears of War? Is that also horrible at 30fps?

A few others have more, actually. But its the combined latency+weight that hits some people hard. I love weight. Love it in games. Shit - the first time playing Demon's Souls I was surprised to see how great it felt to move. Not just being dedicated to an attack or movement, but how everything was tied together visually - really helped improve immersion and make you feel like your actions counted. Love weight - but that has nothing to do with responsiveness.

I dont make engines so I can't comment on why there is so much latency - I just script using them - but I hope that video output latency is reduced in the upcoming gen.

I'm with you on the weight thing. Also, thing that gave KZ2 some questionable controls imo was not the input lag (which in the grand scheme of things is still quite low), it was the dead zone and weird stick acceleration. Starts real slow and speeds up in an unusual gradient.

 

[Can Crusher]

One thing's for sure, the production values for this game seem really high.

 

[CitizenCope]

What about Gears of War? Is that also horrible at 30fps?

I was hoping to get some answers as to why some 30fps shooters can "feel" so much different than others but if you want my list of console shooters in order I'll pm them to you.

 

[Hypron]

but no other game comes close to the delay that it had. why go so far with that aspect on realism but still have regenerating health or magazines that magically saves your ammo when reloading too early? it felt like an excuse, something to try and cover up the fact that they fucked up the controls and couldn't fix ,even with a patch.

Having a delay is not even realistic by any means. When you think about moving your arms around, they start moving almost instantly. The biggest delay happens in your brain, when you process the information and choose how to react. This delay is already present when you play a game, because regardless of whether you move your arms around or just your fingers, you still need to analyse what you're seeing. Adding another delay on top of that is actually the opposite of being realistic. There's a reason why VR only works with really low latencies for example, having a delay between the time you press a button and something starts to happen is just unnatural.

Giving guns a feeling of weight can be achieved by other, more realistic means, such as having an appropriate acceleration curve (that only really works on a pad though) and realistic recoil.

This makes me think though, I feel like games that have an acceleration curve like Killzone 2 should have a button dedicated to turning around 180 degrees. As it is right now, it takes an unnatural amount of time to do so, whereas if you really wanted to turn around in real life (to run away from an explosion for example) you could do it a lot quicker: you'd just jerk your whole body around instead of slowly spinning on your feet.