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[leo-j]

killzone sold 2-3 million copies... horizon sold 20-30 million copies... it's the GP that choose. ALSO I hope they remake killzone for a modern generation. Tired of them just focusing on one IP in Horizon.

 

[Moriarty1889]

A proper remaster of the Killzone Trilogy should have been made already. At least give the fans that much.

 

[diffusionx]

Yes they want to funnel people into new games, but if someone isnt a fan of the genre there not gonna jump in. This just gives more games and options for fans.
They dont have a FPS game like Killzone. They have Destiny and Marathon, not the same kind of fans or gameplay.

they don't care. they don't want to maintain a whole online game infrastructure for a small number of people. they build these games for long term ROI and investment not to satisfy a tiny group of aging millennials.

like, people kept saying they were going to port mcc to ps5. i said they will not because they don't want to reintroduce these old games with all the support that comes with it, and sure enough, they didnt port mcc to ps5.

 

[Inanilmaz]

Killzone 2 still the GOAT in terms of campaign and an epic multiplayer.

Who remembers the chirp?

The chirp was better than horizon

 

[Kacho]

A proper remaster of the Killzone Trilogy should have been made already. At least give the fans that much.

I wouldn't be opposed to Sony putting out a remaster collection on PC. I'd love to see how they feel with no input delay and mouse aiming.

 

[FoxMcChief]

I've only played Shadow Fall and it was boring. Very nice looking, though.

Shadow Fall was probably the worst in the series. The best was probably the Vita game, Killzone Mercenary. It's tied with Kid Icarus Uprising for best portable games ever.

 

[archangelmorph]

killzone sold 2-3 million copies... horizon sold 20-30 million copies... it's the GP that choose. ALSO I hope they remake killzone for a modern generation. Tired of them just focusing on one IP in Horizon.

You can't compare sales as the market has grown by about an order of magnitude since KZ1 & 2 came out.

It's like comparing GTA:VC sales with GTA:V.

In the PS3 era, 10m units was like a record breaking success.

These days it's basically table stakes (and games are more expensive than ever per unit).

 

[midnightAI]

Not this bullshit again

Killzone didnt sell as well as Horizon, the market decided which was better (dont get me wrong, I'd love a modern Killzone)

 

[Kokoloko85]

they don't care. they don't want to maintain a whole online game infrastructure for a small number of people. they build these games for long term ROI and investment not to satisfy a tiny group of aging millennials.

like, people kept saying they were going to port mcc to ps5. i said they will not because they don't want to reintroduce these old games with all the support that comes with it, and sure enough, they didnt port mcc to ps5.

Profit is profit. Its up to them if they dont want to do it. Im not saying they will do it, or care about fans. Or its there model.
Im just saying it will bring some small profit and satisfy fans. Clearly it brings in more then spending hundreds of millions on cancelled projects.

They still have TLOU Factions and Uncharted 4 MP going. No1 is expected longterm investment for a Killzone Remaster or its MP. Simple MP games are still fun and is enough

 

[FoxMcChief]

The entire Killzone franchise sold under 10m, and yes that is 6 full games. Two Horizon games sold 48m.

Wouldn't be the first time something bad sold better than something good.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Shadow Fall was probably the worst in the series. The best was probably the Vita game, Killzone Mercenary. It's tied with Kid Icarus Uprising for best portable games ever.

Bro, the game still looks and plays fantastic to this day.

 

[FoxMcChief]

Bro, the game still looks and plays fantastic to this day.

I bet it does. Its mission structure was absolutely perfect for handheld play. Throw in the replayability, man…..

 

[Kokoloko85]

You can't compare sales as the market has grown by about an order of magnitude since KZ1 & 2 came out.

It's like comparing GTA:VC sales with GTA:V.

In the PS3 era, 10m units was like a record breaking success.

These days it's basically table stakes (and games are more expensive than ever per unit).

Agreed.

Alot of games now, even the same IP sell better now than before. Some dont, but that doesnt mean old games cant sell well now again

A Bloodborne 2 would sell a hell alot more than Bloodborne 1, and thats a game that game out in 2015

 

[Tg89]

nothing lost and nothing gained.

 

[Radical_3d]

Shadow Fall was probably the worst in the series. The best was probably the Vita game, Killzone Mercenary. It's tied with Kid Icarus Uprising for best portable games ever.

I do have a Vita…

 

[mayham2199]

You can't compare sales as the market has grown by about an order of magnitude since KZ1 & 2 came out.

It's like comparing GTA:VC sales with GTA:V.

In the PS3 era, 10m units was like a record breaking success.

These days it's basically table stakes (and games are more expensive than ever per unit).

What do you want them to do? They made Shadowfall and it didn't sell that well. The very next game they made sold more than all the KZ games combined? I know your not trying to tell me that's all based on the market growing?

I don't get why some of you can't just admit that HZ is popular outside of this site. People like the series and so do I. I actually liked Shadowfall and thought the story got interesting after like the 3rd mission but Horizon is just better. Like I can't stand COD and think the games are trash but I'm not stupid enough to say they sell millions just because the market has grown. It's because people love those games outside of this site.

 

[diffusionx]

Profit is profit. Its up to them if they dont want to do it. Im not saying they will do it, or care about fans. Or its there model.
Im just saying it will bring some small profit and satisfy fans. Clearly it brings in more then spending hundreds of millions on cancelled projects.

They still have TLOU Factions and Uncharted 4 MP going. No1 is expected longterm investment for a Killzone Remaster or its MP. Simple MP games are still fun and is enough

No, profit is not profit. Companies won't invest $100 million to make $101 million. They have those old games running but note that when they ported Uncharted 4 to PS5, it did not include the MP section. Nor did TLOU remake. Both were opportunities to bring those modes to a new audience, but they decided not to. So they're not going to do it with Killzone.

I agree that simple MP games are still fun, but it's not worth it for these companies to do it anymore, so they don't.

 

[L*][*N*K]

You can go with whatever you want, but when you tout nearly 50 million in sales without any context you're pretending that they really sold 50 million copies of these games. The amount of bundles and $10 upgrades that are counted as "sales" is significant and every time people brag on this series they continently leave that out.

Btw looks like the number was 38m my bad my argument is still the same, killzone was not as financially successful as Horizon hence why they killed it.

 

[CuteFaceJay]

Call me crazy but this gives OG Fornite vibes, You know the time before Fornite turned into a BR game but without the building.

 

[FoxMcChief]

I do have a Vita…

Dude, the game is worth every penny.

 

[mayham2199]

You can go with whatever you want, but when you tout nearly 50 million in sales without any context you're pretending that they really sold 50 million copies of these games. The amount of bundles and $10 upgrades that are counted as "sales" is significant and every time people brag on this series they continently leave that out.

Does it really matter? At the end of the day Sony wants to make money and it's clear regardless of what Horizons "real sales" are that it was way more successful than Killzone has ever been.

 

[Xtib81]

I always loved killzone. I wish they rebooted the series.

 

[Portugeezer]

We're getting MGS4 ports before KZ2...

What a timeline!

 

[archangelmorph]

What do you want them to do? They made Shadowfall and it didn't sell that well. The very next game they made sold more than all the KZ games combined? I know your not trying to tell me that's all based on the market growing?

I don't get why some of you can't just admit that HZ is popular outside of this site. People like the series and so do I. I actually liked Shadowfall and thought the story got interesting after like the 3rd mission but Horizon is just better. Like I can't stand COD and think the games are trash but I'm not stupid enough to say they sell millions just because the market has grown. It's because people love those games outside of this site.

I have no idea who you're arguing with.

I made no comment against HZ. I love the franchise personally (barring what I've seen regarding the new GaaS monstrosity).

HZ certainly carries more mainstream appeal than KZ (open world games = mainstream, dinosaurs = appeal, mechs = appeal, dinosaurs + mechs + open world = how could this not do gangbusters bro!?!), but there's no argument to say Guerilla couldn't have explored building on both, especially into the PS5 gen.

Rather than Sony spunking $3.5B they could have easily capitalised them by say $600m; by locking in publishing rights + funding for Marathon, further Destiny 2 development + at least 2-3 new projects, and deployed the rest of the money to bolstering additional dev teams across their existing literally world-class (proven) studios and expanded development of more projects that tap into their highly deep, highly respected and highly critically acclaimed back catalog.

Frustrating really.

 

[mayham2199]

I have no idea who you're arguing with.

I made no comment against HZ. I love the franchise personally (barring what I've seen regarding the new GaaS monstrosity).

HZ certainly carries more mainstream appeal than KZ (open world games = mainstream, dinosaurs = appeal, mechs = appeal, dinosaurs + mechs + open world = how could this not do gangbusters bro!?!), but there's no argument to say Guerilla couldn't have explored building on both, especially into the PS5 gen.

Rather than Sony spunking $3.5B they could have easily capitalised them by say $600m; by locking in publishing rights + funding for Marathon, further Destiny 2 development + at least 2-3 new projects, and deployed the rest of the money to bolstering additional dev teams across their existing literally world-class (proven) studios and expanded development of more projects that tap into their highly deep, highly respected and highly critically acclaimed back catalog.

Frustrating really.

I think we can all agree the Bungie purchase was a mistake but it's done and honestly using that money to make KZ wouldn't have been any better. Sony isn't interested in making a couple of million from their games. They are watching all these companies making hundreds of millions off one game and they want to get involved in that because it's putting them in a dangerous position. Like 50% of their revenue is from 10 GAAS games. They need to be involved in that so that if they start losing those games they'll have their own to replace the revenue.

I have a client who relied on two or three huge clients for all their business. They lost one of those clients because they were sold off to another large company and now they are struggling to stay open. The other two clients aren't enough and I saw tons of people at that company lose their job who had been there for decades. This is the position Sony is in right now. They lose one of those 10 games and their revenue drops off drastically unless something else takes it's place. Your focused on getting a new KZ game and I get it but Sony is focused on securing their future.

 

[Humdinger]

Horizon would probably get less hate around here if Herman didn't try to milk it so hard. He's over-saturating the market with Horizon games, and people are sick of it. I don't blame them, although I'm a fan of the first game. It's something I play just to relax, because I like the environment and combat. I tried Killzone, but it never grabbed me -- just seemed like a another dark gloomy shooter to me. I'm glad they moved on, personally, although I do understand how people are sick of seeing Horizon games.

 

[archangelmorph]

I think we can all agree the Bungie purchase was a mistake but it's done and honestly using that money to make KZ wouldn't have been any better. Sony isn't interested in making a couple of million from their games. They are watching all these companies making hundreds of millions off one game and they want to get involved in that because it's putting them in a dangerous position. Like 50% of their revenue is from 10 GAAS games. They need to be involved in that so that if they start losing those games they'll have their own to replace the revenue.

I have a client who relied on two or three huge clients for all their business. They lost one of those clients because they were sold off to another large company and now they are struggling to stay open. The other two clients aren't enough and I saw tons of people at that company lose their job who had been there for decades. This is the position Sony is in right now. They lose one of those 10 games and their revenue drops off drastically unless something else takes it's place. Your focused on getting a new KZ game and I get it but Sony is focused on securing their future.

You seem desperate to assume any of this is binary. One option vs another. Zero sum.

Sony could have and should do all of those things.

Diversified investment.

That's the very heritage strategy that they built their entire IP stable, and brand value on.

I know you seem to hate KZ but many love it fondly, and what makes you think a modern AAA KZ couldn't do $100s of millions to billions of dollars in revenue?

Since KZ, Halo grew dramatically and proved it's possible (before it shat the bed), and more generally CoD proved that a world class FPS franchise could easily carry a mainstream audience.

There's so much potential here and KZ always had far superior lore (more grown up world and themes) to Halo, even if the games left so much on the table in terms of actually exploring it.

Imagine a new KZ with Tides of Annihilation tier visual fidelity, TLOU2 tier character story and COD tier gameplay finesse?

I can't see how that couldn't be seriously bankable.

 

[Fortress of Regrets]

I just can't belive that they didn't cancel this abomination long ago. Now they'll have a very expensive Concord moment on their hands. People keep talking about a struggling games industry and the industry keeps pumping out sauceless shit with freakshow characters no one wants to play as. Even the 'purple' people don't show up in numbers to make this shit financially viable.

Can we have cool games with sauce again?

 

[mayham2199]

You seem desperate to assume any of this is binary. One option vs another. Zero sum.

Sony could have and should do all of those things.

Diversified investment.

That's the very heritage strategy that they built their entire IP stable, and brand value on.

I know you seem to hate KZ but many love it fondly, and what makes you think a modern AAA KZ couldn't do $100s of millions to billions of dollars in revenue?

Since KZ, Halo grew dramatically and proved it's possible (before it shat the bed), and more generally CoD proved that a world class FPS franchise could easily carry a mainstream audience.

There's so much potential here and KZ always had far superior lore (more grown up world and themes) to Halo, even if the games left so much on the table in terms of actually exploring it.

Imagine a new KZ with Tides of Annihilation tier visual fidelity, TLOU2 tier character story and COD tier gameplay finesse?

I can't see how that couldn't be seriously bankable.

I don't hate KZ I clearly said I liked Shadowfall which many on here consider it the worst. They can only diversify so much. Guerilla can only work on so many projects before they have to increase their employee count. They are already working on several things for Horizon. To do Killzone they would essentially have to hire way more people to get working on it.

I don't think a modern KZ could do 100s of millions because it's never done that and it has like 5-6 games. How many chances do we have to give KZ before we say it's just not that popular? Halo and COD are not in the same place KZ is in. By COD2 they sold nearly 6 million copies way more than KZ has ever done. Halo 2 was at like 8 million. Do you see the difference? Halo and COD were given more chances and they continued to sell more and more. KZ has never done that and has always stayed around the 2 million mark.

On top of all that we have to ask does Guerilla even want to do this? Are they even interested in going back to a series that they already made 5-6 games for? Last I heard this gathering game is a project they really wanted to work on since they even came up with the Hoirzon idea. So do you really want a team who isn't even interested in doing anymore Killzone working on a new one?