Indie devs flock to PS4 to self-publish, how The Witness became PS4 exclusive
- Thread starter bigboss370
- Start date
Yeah it's pretty sad.
I mean people have to give out games for free on NeoGaf to bribe voters and developers still don't get enough votes to get greenlighted
Marvin Mittens thread is an example of this: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=503527
Shao Kahn Brewing a Stew
Banned
Yep. Kotaku did a better job at this.
BlueTsunami
there is joy in sucking dick
When I watched the conference I was really intrigued by 'The Witness' and hope that this generation will be the true explosion of indie games in general on consoles.
Apart from the 2,800+ indie games on Xbox Live right now, yeah.
Jonathan Blow seems pissed off that he's not allowed to charge a high enough price for The Witness on XBLA: -
http://penny-arcade.com/report/edit...athan-blow-explains-why-microsoft-is-aiming-a
Baconsammy
Banned
"Open world puzzle game from the Braid guys. "
That alone would have made me choose it if I was in a position to do so at Microsoft.
TheUnsunghero26
Member
I agree that Microsoft is good at choosing games for XBLA, but from what I've heard Jonathon Blow didn't want to sign with them.
Baconsammy
Banned
That's not what he said.
bigtroyjon
Member
Sweet, another thread where people think that devs being able to self publish on PSN is something new. This isn't new and removing sites and authors who think it is from where you get information would be a good idea.
I dunno why, cos he made a packet out of Braid: -
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2012/05/the-most-dangerous-gamer/308928/
If you're talking about XBLIG, that whole service is a joke. Microsoft seems embarrassed of it and gives it zero promotion which means most games make barely any money. They even dropped XNA recently.
I don't know how getting your game on XBLIG is a win for any indie.
Sgt.Pepper
Banned
It's fucking terrible.
And what makes you think another open platform will do better? No platform holder is going to magically put money promoting every game on the service.
This is just stupid.
You're saying that shit like Yaris and Go Go Break Steady are better than The Witness?
Because that crap was published by MS.
This is very true.
But he put out a specific number as if that number is something Microsoft should brag about.
Hilarious. The Witness is guaranteed to be one of the biggest upcoming indie games. It's likely that luring indies just isn't a high priority for Microsoft right now.
Baconsammy
Banned
You mean other than the guys that made millions of dollars off Minecraft clones?
And yet, there's way more indie games on there than any of the competing services and MS was the only company of the 3 to offer downloadable tools that anyone could use to make a game. Why do you think MS seems embarrassed of it? Strange thing to say isn't it? Do you expect them to give indie games pride of place on the 360 dashboard? Spend a fortune promoting games that sell for 80 MSP? Just like Sony do with PSN Minis, yeah?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Made_a_Game_with_Zombies_in_It!
I guess that game was a win for that indie.
It's confirmed on PC....
Well, that's what Nintendo does with the eShop. All indies titles are promiently displayed on the front page when they release, and they even have their convenient section to look specifically at indie games.
You're right, most of it is crap. But it's still a noteworthy statistic. It's also a good reminder of what all this open platform talk means.
The quality of your average PSN/XBLA title is pretty high (compared to the average indie title), and there's a reason for it. I'm very interested in what Sony is doing, but I've spent countless hours wading through XBIG and indie PC portals, and I'm not quite convinced that this is the best step for gamers or developers.
The 360 dashboard has a section devoted to indie games, as does Xbox.com: -
http://marketplace.xbox.com/en-GB/Games/XboxIndieGames?SortBy=ReleaseDate
MS have also occasionally advertised indie games on the dashboard. But if you own a sweet shop, you don't put your 1p sweets in the window.
If you did that on XBLIG you'd end up with mostly trash on the front page. There's some great stuff on there but its so hard to find it through the junk.
Reading between the lines of Gabe's talk at DICE (the one on his own, not with Abrams) I think they recognize the failure of Greenlight. I get the sense they are going to open things up there because he was hinting at democratizing discovery which would be necessary if they opened up the floodgates.
Noogy said:
The thing about a software catalogue is it doesn't really matter what the "average" title quality is, as long as at the top end the quality titles are there. What an open platform gets you is greater depth to the catalogue, which means greater choice and options for the consumer and means you'll see servicing of a lot more niche interests.
The problem once you open up a platform is discovery. If you can solve that, it doesn't matter how many titles you have.
Platform manufacturers and online game portals could learn a lot from the likes of Amazon.
Microsoft deserves a ton of praise for creating XNA. What I wonder is what happens to XNA developers now that MS killed XNA? Do they go learn something like Unity now? Also, not saying nobody made money off XBLIG. But lets not say everyone became millionaires because 1 or 2 studios had success.
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/07/06/xblig-creators-express-disappointment-with-low-sales/
Microsoft treated XBLIG as a dumping ground for games they rejected for XBLA. Pure and simple. And most Xbox owners didn't even look at it because they knew it was a dumping ground.
Microsoft originally advertised the idea of XNA and XBLIG as the Youtube of indie gaming where people could upload their games.
For every good game made for XBLIG, 50 shitty/buggy Minecraft clones popped up.
What's so hilarious?
If Microsoft sees a game they like, they buy it.
They snapped up Mark of the Ninja and even slyly got under Sonys nose on Deadlight.
I'd say they've seen the Witness and don't believe its worth publishing themselves.
BRocknRolla
Member
Seems like great news. The future of interesting games, new and innovative experiences, more than likely lies with the indies and not large AAA studios with bloated budgets and overlong development cycles. More power to Sony if they're looking to embrace that community. Getting devs behind the company can only be good for the platform and for gamers.
As an indie developer, you want a marketplace that can give you a lot of visibility, since that's the only place you can sell your games. Nintendo decided to mix their own big titles, big third-party titles, and indie games in the same place on the eShop. It's a bit jarring seeing a title like The Cave next to New Super Mario Bros U and Assassin's Creed 3, for example. It treats indie games like any other title, and that's pretty cool.
Heart of Black
Member
Also yes. Arguing with 12 year-olds about your graphics style... not fun.
It's coming...
Warm Machine
Member
The only problem XBLIG has is one of perception. For whatever reason the channel doesnt get a lot of attention even though there is a lot of reason to go there. A serious game with nice production values and sales potential does get noticed on XBLIG by Microsoft. Many devs even outside of the Minecraft clones have done well on the service.
As an XBLIG dev we have been featured twice by Microsoft on the dash for both Orbitron: Revolution and Arcadecraft. MS could be doing better on this front but good lord did they deliver an incredible platform that for developers is far more flexible and developer friendly than even XBLA. It is a full service platform too that includes free well made development tools.
Any games sales and promotion is a reflection of how interesting it is to gamers on the platform.
In terms of Greenlight, it is a total failure. We have more downloads of the Xbox 360 Arcadecraft than people who have visited the Greenlight page and we have more sales than the people who have "liked" it on Greenlight. All of our press for the game has resulted in a minor spike in traffic on Greenlight too so the "you should advertise, get press, and get groundswell support" doesn't drive traffic to Greenlight. Ironic too because we even agree that is a game better suited to PC but was a console game simply because we could put it on a sales portal with very good traffic. XBLIG does have good traffic.
I hope so for the developers sake. Sales data that people have shared is grim.
Your reasoning is hilarious. Blow's last game helped make XBLA into a legit platform for indie games. The fact that MS never even spoke to him about his follow-up says that they aren't reaching out to indies, not that The Witness isn't worth it. The game is gonna be big.
Thanks for the post. That's pretty interesting. I actually voted for your game on Steam Greenlight. I should go check it out on XBLIG.
Just curious, how many people have bought your game so far?
Warm Machine
Member
Over 10k we think. Sales numbers are a few days delayed.
Coolness. Your games look kinda rad. I'll check it out if it hits a platform I own (Wii U or PC).
How do you feel about what Nintendo is doing with the Wii U and 3DS in regards to Indie Devs right now? Have you tried to work with Nintendo before? Serious question.
bideogamer
Neo Member
I have a friend making a game right now trying to get votes, but its really hard to get votes on Greenlight without getting stories on Kotaku or DTOID or something. I certainly dont go there everyday checking for new projects.
Shameless friend plug if youre at all interested.
Unknown One
Member
We'll probably be seeing some one dollar games won't we.
outunderthestars
Banned
They can self-publish all they like on XBLIG. XBLA is intended as a curated market for a relatively small number of higher-profile games. Microsoft relies on publishers to winnow down the field be giving each publisher a limited number of publishing slots to fill on XBLA.
It's fundamentally a sound set-up. The main problem is that MS needs to do more to promote XBLIG games and make the marketplace much more accessible.
Heh heh, there can never be too many third-party games on a Nintendo system. In any case, all it does is force indies to find a publisher, which causes unnecessary hurdles.
Warm Machine
Member
There shouldn't be one really. The thing is a game only does as well as a platform holder thinks they can make money off of it. Visibility is key and everyone will then battle for it.
A good friend of mine who had a game dev studio here in Vancouver made two iOS games. In the earlier days of iOS They both sold around 75 copies each and cost 5 figures each. Free market, no visibility.
Just because devs can jam whatever they want to a platform doesn't guarantee success. Even if Steam went 100% open games wouldn't see great sales.
Our first game Orbitron:Revolution saw far greater sales on Xbox than PC by a massive ratio.
In theory, opening up your platform will result in
- lower average quality for titles and more inconsistency of experience
- increased pressure on discovery to surface good/relevant content
- increased support for platform holder
However, in exchange it provides
- greater depth and diversity to the catalogue
- higher aggregate sales and revenues
On balance, opening up your platform is better for consumer, developers, and the platform holder IF you can solve the discovery problem and can avoid be burdened with additional support.
Warm Machine
Member
This is required reading for anyone interested in Xbox Live Indie Games.
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Thom...hs_about_Xbox_Live_Indie_Game_Development.php
http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/Thom...hs_about_Xbox_Live_Indie_Game_Development.php