Broder Salsa
Banned
Are the reviews from Polygon typically this bad, or was this just exceptional quality?
SimCity Traffic and AI is broken, Sims are fake
- Thread starter jambo
- Start date
I know it's already been said that it's what EA/Maxis promised, but I have played a game that does a lot more than keep track of the routines of 200k NPCs at the same time. I played a game that keeps track of every NPC's internal organs (and bones, and tissue) as well as their hopes and dreams and fears and relationships with others, as well as the relative health and fitness of the carp in the river. And since Dwarf Fortress was essentially made by just one guy, I'd think EA/Maxis could at least keep track of which house each NPC lives in.
Tropico 4 is actually pretty good at being Dwarf Fortress Lite. I just had a bunch of people protesting the government, then give up to go get drunk.
Not to mention the fact that a lot of the reasoning behind such paltry sized land to build in was because there were tons of data measuring with all the sims they had to keep track of.
Brawndo Addict
Banned
Sounds like a lot of their overarching design goals ultimately had to be tweaked given the raw processing power that would have been required and the current PC hardware landscape. I can't necessarily fault them for wanting to target a wider audience and have the game be able to run on normal peoples' old PCs, but that kind of approach is always going to come with sacrifices to the overall complexity. Decreasing city size is one obvious compromise to try to reconcile the desire for a complex simulation with the reality of low end hardware limits, but their focus on having the entire simulation designed around individual sims seems like it was at odds with the physical limitations they working with.
If you want your simulation to be really complex and reflective of a foundation rooted on the individual level but your hardware restraints prevent you from being able to properly model traffic, I think the time has come to step back and ask yourself whether you have an irreconcilable conflict at hand.
If you want your simulation to be really complex and reflective of a foundation rooted on the individual level but your hardware restraints prevent you from being able to properly model traffic, I think the time has come to step back and ask yourself whether you have an irreconcilable conflict at hand.
Well, It's the Caribbean. "El Caribe." The Spanish Main. The land of voodoo, hoodoo and all kinda weird shit. With that much rum around, why not?
We went over this in a previous thread; a steam survey found 95% of the population runs at least two cores. SimCity5 is built to run the majority of the game (all of the simulation) on a single core. The PC hardware landscape SimCity was built for is one stuck in 2003.
CrazedProfessional
Member
Anno 2070 is a fucking beautiful game too.
Charoncaori
Member
That's cool. I'd honestly be pretty tempted if they fixed some of the pathing issues, but this is worth $10 to me, not $60.
Tropico is more akin to Civilization. The primary game is made up of individual scenarios with a time limit.
It's really nothing like SimCity at all.
And even though I love the game, it's had major flaws for multiple iterations now. The construction workers are an absolute shambles and the teamsters don't work particularly well either. One could make a joke about realism but mostly it's just frustrating.
Well the fire engines rushing to the same fire and the sims going to the same house are the same problem. Very small changes to the sims target selection can have huge consequences for overall results, that's one thing that makes an agent based system to powerful.
The traffic routing seems to be a flat out bug at least in part, since in the PDF describing their algorithm has it producing different results in that scenario. They mentioned they are working specifically on that as well: https://twitter.com/MaxisGuillaume/status/310410078467543043
There are two issues here: one is that homes and jobs are fleeting day-to-day. The second is that multiple sims aim for the SAME job or house, and actually get in there car and drive towards it, despite that fact that the game will only let one move in which prompts them to do a u-turn and head somewhere else.
The first, which many seem upset about, may be a product of the timescale of the game. When I'm building my city I make massive over the course a few game days. A 'day' in the game is more like a year or more. Sims get educated in a few days, you could have a new university in a single day, lay down massive changes to the roads. It doesn't seem unreasonable that homes and work change day to day when you consider it represents what would be years of changes in a real life city. Though perhaps here some middle ground would work, giving sims some weight towards staying in the same house but not enough that it would override any layout changes.
The second is a problem. I wonder if a few minor tweaks could make a massive difference here too. Even a few random factors or staggering could probably avoid the mob walking towards a single house weirdness. A change like this: http://www.reddit.com/r/SimCity/comments/1a6rj0/its_not_pathfinding_its_glassbox/c8unuke could be a big help.
FWIW, there are reports that in 1.4 emergency vehicles are already calling 'dibs' on fires and not rushing all the same one. Can anyone confirm?
Neuromancer
Member
I want to play this game but isn't part of it combat/RTS?
Haunted
Member
Guys, the cities have to be tiny because the quality of the simulation is just so much higher and your PC wouldn't be able to handle all those calculations on a larger scale, same with the always-online stipulation - it's not DRM, it's straight out necessary because only EA's powerful servers can possibly calculate these highly advanced AI routines.
wait what
Unhandled Exception
Member
Despite knowing I wouldn't be successful I requested a refund anyway. Stranger things have happened I guess.
EatinOlives
Member
It's perfectly fine so long as you plan ahead. As in, lay several buildings down well before you know you're going to need them, have several construction offices handy, and make use of the prioritization feature. Basically, constructing buildings was made into a mechanic all on its own, so you have to work toward making good use of it.
I disagree completely. I'll have 3-4 construction worker buildings and ample parking garages and things will go unbuilt for months and months. The only way to get stuff built is by paying extra to force it to happen, otherwise there is no guarantee it will happen even with something set to high priority. 4 should have had a complete overhaul of this aspect of the AI and it didn't. They're still as bad as they were in 3.
On top of that, I can't count how many times I've had my dock workers not load it unload items effectively.
4 had fewer scenarios than 3 which were quite as reliant on speed so the useless workers wasn't quite as big of a detriment but it is still an exercise in frustration. They have to figure out some way to ensure they're always working when they're on the job (or close to it).
CrazedProfessional
Member
You expand your city by island hopping which does eventually involve simplistic naval combat etc.
It's not too much of a distraction from the city building and the expansion makes it moot anyway since eventually you can build UNDERWATER
EatinOlives
Member
Well, I can't say I've ever had that much of a problem with it in Tropico 1, 3 or 4. If it actually takes months for something to get built you're simply doing something wrong.
Poohblaster
Member
endresults
Member
Twice as high as SimCity's.
Neuromancer
Member
Oh ok that sounds all right. I'll try the demo.
exmachina64
Banned
Twice as high doesn't mean twice as good.
NullPointer
Member
Seems like a conspiracy to crowd-source shopping mall and supermarket design.
*the plot thickens*
*the plot thickens*
endresults
Member
Oh, I know. CitiesXL is probably more than twice as good.
cartoon_soldier
Member
So glad I didn't buy the game. Have played all older SimCity's, big fan of the series.
Sucks
The pics on Reddit are unbelievable. Did people beta test a completely different game code?
Sucks
The pics on Reddit are unbelievable. Did people beta test a completely different game code?
speculawyer
Member
Wow. This game sounds more and more like a disaster.
But then again, it seems a lot of people must have bought it in order to cause all these server crashes and for people to discover all these flaws, so it can't be doing that bad.
But then again, it seems a lot of people must have bought it in order to cause all these server crashes and for people to discover all these flaws, so it can't be doing that bad.
EA always wins. No matter how much they screw up, people still buy their games.
It's in real time, but there is no combat in Anno series.
Edit: Guess I was wrong. There wasn't any combat in the older games.
Quadraphonic
Member
Charoncaori
Member
This is a design/QC problem. I think the beta tests were just to make sure it would run in a real environment, on different people's pcs, at the same time, without too many unforeseen issues. (Which it failed at doing at launch anyway).So glad I didn't buy the game. Have played all older SimCity's, big fan of the series.
Sucks
The pics on Reddit are unbelievable. Did people beta test a completely different game code?
EmCeeGramr
Member
I know my Pharaoh disk is still around. Caesar II disappeared years ago, though. All those plebs will be needed forever...
Haunted
Member
They must've all missed that like most, if not all, reviewers seem to have missed it.So glad I didn't buy the game. Have played all older SimCity's, big fan of the series.
Sucks
The pics on Reddit are unbelievable. Did people beta test a completely different game code?
Origami Superman
Member
Yep, definitely check out Quill18's videos if you want to find out more about the series. It's what I'll be playing until EA pulls their head out of their ass.
So glad I didn't buy the game. Have played all older SimCity's, big fan of the series.
Sucks
The pics on Reddit are unbelievable. Did people beta test a completely different game code?
Some of those images on Reddit are more issues with how the city is built, rather than the game itself. Second and third images, for example. There is no reason as to why dirt roads should be going onto avenues.
The issue with Firetrucks tho really sucks. I've had more than a few hires happen because all the trucks went to the same place.
Oh man, I wish I could record the image of these Sims wandering around in circles outside of their homes on my game. It's so pathetic it's actually funny.
Bending_Unit_22
Member
Not to derail but I've decided to write this game off, anyhoo...
I've had a huge problem with it in 3. Built more construction offices around the island, prioritized projects, cut back to only 3 or so projects, greatly increased pay, nothing worked. Teamsters finish a project then rest for a month or 2 no matter how many were available. More annoying than anything else though since I find the Tropico games to be fairly easy paint by numbers games, just have to make sure everything is balancing out as you grow which isn't difficult.
I'd love to join you guys but I can't take the terrible graphics/interface/limitations of many 90's PC games anymore. I really wish someone would take games like that and just improve on those 3 things. Don't change the core gameplay, don't reimagine it, don't add much to it, just the same game but better interface, updated graphics, better AI, better algorithms, and that's it.
I've had a huge problem with it in 3. Built more construction offices around the island, prioritized projects, cut back to only 3 or so projects, greatly increased pay, nothing worked. Teamsters finish a project then rest for a month or 2 no matter how many were available. More annoying than anything else though since I find the Tropico games to be fairly easy paint by numbers games, just have to make sure everything is balancing out as you grow which isn't difficult.
I'd love to join you guys but I can't take the terrible graphics/interface/limitations of many 90's PC games anymore. I really wish someone would take games like that and just improve on those 3 things. Don't change the core gameplay, don't reimagine it, don't add much to it, just the same game but better interface, updated graphics, better AI, better algorithms, and that's it.
I acknowledge your criticisms, although I don't have much issue with the workers/teamsters (but I'm still early on).
Still, it's not really fair to compare it to Civilization. Civilization is largely empire vs empire-- whether online or against the computer, you're still pitting your civilization against others like a glacially-paced RTS. Civilization's like GalCiv or any other empire game. Tropico is just your nation. Its closest comparison is Sim City.
endresults
Member
Edit: disregard that.
Dr.Palutena
Member
So glad I didn't buy the game. Have played all older SimCity's, big fan of the series.
Sucks
The pics on Reddit are unbelievable. Did people beta test a completely different game code?
These pics make me want a Tokyo jungle type game, but with vehicles. Those ambulances, battling a herd of fire trucks.
Also , one must keep in mind the public betas were largely "stress" (HA) tests that were solely an hr long each.
maniac-kun
Member
Metzen is a nice guy how can you hate him?
Is Caesar III considered inferior to Caesar II?
Again, this is an example of a poorly designed city. The game's traffic has glaring issues, and needs an INSANE amount of extra management (let me pick where stoplights are plz!) but don't blame the game for someones' shitty city off Reddit.
The owner of that image could fix it by replacing the dirty road with an equal-quality avenue, even if he had to demolish some city buildings to do so.
Unfortunately, the AI taking the shortest route possible works against players.
AbortedWalrusFetus
Member
I am sort of skeptical that a modern CPU couldn't handle the simulation of that many SIMs. Don't get me wrong, it's a lot o data, but I have seen my Pentium 4 at work scream through some pretty massive amounts of data sets, and that is in inefficient Java code. I would love to know some more of the implementation details because I really do wonder about this.
benjipwns
Banned
The ambulances will have to wait their turn.