Colonel Nasty
Member
Fuck you Shos for doing that to Ray.
Girls - Season 2 - Sundays on HBO
- Thread starter anaron
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dead souls
Member
Good god, I don't think I've ever hated any show as much as I hate Girls right now. That finale was terrible and yet the critical praise continues to roll in. I can't believe Sepinwall called Adam heroic in his review.
brianjones
Member
SHIRI
OPERATE
I hate myself for watching this show
OPERATE
I hate myself for watching this show
They call him heroic? The critics also herald this show as one that defines our generation I once read. Apparently the critics think heroism is settling for less.
Now, I have no problem with Adam caring for Hannah's well-being. That is what anyone in that situation should do. A good person will extend a helping hand to someone flirting with a mental breakdown despite past drama.
However, why do they have to hookup? Hannah's character must grow positively and getting Adam in that moment will only set her back further and set up future disappointments.
I feel like the show really limited itself with regards to next season. Its a shame because I want to like this show because of how highly I held the first season and the first few episodes of this season.
In my opinion, the show started stinking episode five. There was some great moments in between and a really great episode with Adam and Roy but the rest were mostly dreadful to watch.
This guy sucks. This show sucks.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
I thought it was awful. Just...nothing worked. Marnie and Charlie learned their lessons and are back to square one, but this time not only are they, like, so totally in love and happy, but they're also rich! *eyes roll back into head*
The ending between Hannah and Adam was extremely cheesy and it didn't work at all for me. At first I thought it was a parody or something, but they actually played it straight. I'm actually shocked by how awful that was.
That was the best part of the episode.
Did anyone read Sepinwall's review? I was shocked by the amount of glowing hyperbole littered throughout:
I literally threw up in my mouth from reading all of that.
The ending between Hannah and Adam was extremely cheesy and it didn't work at all for me. At first I thought it was a parody or something, but they actually played it straight. I'm actually shocked by how awful that was.
That was the best part of the episode.
Did anyone read Sepinwall's review? I was shocked by the amount of glowing hyperbole littered throughout:
I literally threw up in my mouth from reading all of that.
That's supposed to be satire, right? That can't be serious.
I don't understand. How exactly did Marnie grow this season?
Did she really learn how to appreciate Charlie for who he is? Or did her adventures with more 'interesting' men fail so she pushed her way back into the life of the safe newly rich ex who had actively tried to separate himself from her?
Man. There isn't a single regular or recurring character on this show I like. Yet, it occasionally has moments I love, but altogether it's just frustrating.
dead souls
Member
Yeah, I don't get how Sepinwall can't see what a creepy fuck Adam is. He's such a loathsome character. Anyone who finds anything about him heroic is wired totally differently than I am.
The critical reaction to this show is baffling. I'm fine with people liking a show more than I do, even though I might not seem like it a lot of the time, but I fundamentally cannot understand where critics are coming from with this show. It's like they're watching a different show than I am.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
I also thought Tim Goodman's review was odd. It's not so much a review of the episode as it is a diatribe against the super duper misogynistic fans who just don't understand the genius of Lena Dunham. His closing comment is essentially "Haters gonna hate".
dead souls
Member
Oh god, I'm reading it now and he pulls the whole "the show is the show" take it or leave it thing that VanDerWerff has spouted in some AVClub comment sections as well. It's hilarious the way both are willing to invalidate their entire profession in order to defend Girls from being criticized.
So this finale left us with these possible plot lines for next season:
1) Charlie loses all of his money because his app company is a piece of shit straining his and Marnie's relationship.
2) Roy becomes ambitious and successful operating the new location in Brooklyn Heights leaving Shoshanna dismayed with her breakup decision.
3) Hannah makes a swell mental recovery because her and Adam are back together in some way or another.
4) Jessa reappears mid-season with a sense of liberation through accepting some weird eastern religion during her time as a monk in a monastery from a far away land.
1) Charlie loses all of his money because his app company is a piece of shit straining his and Marnie's relationship.
2) Roy becomes ambitious and successful operating the new location in Brooklyn Heights leaving Shoshanna dismayed with her breakup decision.
3) Hannah makes a swell mental recovery because her and Adam are back together in some way or another.
4) Jessa reappears mid-season with a sense of liberation through accepting some weird eastern religion during her time as a monk in a monastery from a far away land.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
If it were any other show I feel like they'd be ripping it for the same things they are gushing about. It's a weird thing to see.
almost perfect. For 2) it's Ray not Roy and for 3) you forgot to add that when things get back to normal it'll go to shit again and the cycle starts anew.
almost perfect. For 2) it's Ray not Roy and for 3) you forgot to add that when things get back to normal it'll go to shit again and the cycle starts anew.
Possibly. S2 just wasn't all that good. Sure, I watched each week, mostly because nothing else was on TV worth watching. I'll watch S3 but if it starts off slow, I'll be out by mid-season.
Character/relationship development was terrible this season.
Girls is probably the best example of the ridiculous relationship between TV critics and the show that has emerged in the past decade. I can't help but feel everyone thinks they have a vested interest in saying that something like Girls is successful so they can pat themselves on the back for being on the forefront of this new era of TV surpassing film.
Girls S2 wasn't bad (though it was pretty unremarkable, imo), but honestly I'm getting pretty sick of the whole TV critic model that's sprung up.
Girls S2 wasn't bad (though it was pretty unremarkable, imo), but honestly I'm getting pretty sick of the whole TV critic model that's sprung up.
This show and I apparently operate on vastly different wavelengths. Hannah spends most of the episode trying to manipulate the people in her life into buying into her drama. She tries to get her publisher to buy a BS injury, her dad to rescue her from her publisher, Laird to take advantage of her faked dizzy spell to... Feed her ego or give her book material, I'm not sure. She reaches out Jessa and berates her for, essentially, living a life that makes her unavailable when Hannah needs her. Hannah treats everyone like not-people, and the script has her admit that she hasn't been thinking of Laird as a person. So when Hannah 'accidentally' FaceTimes Adam and winds up showing off her OCD, prompting his run to the rescue, I didn't read the scene as two people finding each other or whatever, it felt more like Hannah trying one more background player in the drama that is her life, and this time actually succeeding in getting them to buy into her bullshit. Not a triumphant and romantic moment, but Hannah finally managing to get someone to clean up the glass for her. I though it mirrored Marnie's decision to take the easy way out and hook up with Charlie, again. Going forward alone is the scary part of growing up, so I thought this episode was about two characters failing to move forward in their lives.
The reviews seem to indicate I'm wrong, though, and these relationship reunions were supposed to be because of how the characters have grown? So I feel like I should rewatch the episode and try to see it from that angle.
Shoshanna's probably the shallowest character, but she's the only one who seems to actually grow in a way I can follow.
I enjoyed the first season but really don't know what to think of the second and have no idea where the third could head.
The reviews seem to indicate I'm wrong, though, and these relationship reunions were supposed to be because of how the characters have grown? So I feel like I should rewatch the episode and try to see it from that angle.
Shoshanna's probably the shallowest character, but she's the only one who seems to actually grow in a way I can follow.
I enjoyed the first season but really don't know what to think of the second and have no idea where the third could head.
This finale had cheese flowing throughout every aspect of it. Charlie and Marnie, the two worst character's in the series 20 episode run, were the biggest offenders.
What the fuck was that? Did he completely forget how she treated him when she dumped him? Is it a coincidence that he comes into money (it obviously was for the sake of the lazy writing) and she's all the sudden interested again? They deserve each other. Makes for uninteresting television, but whatever.
I completely agree. And I honestly can't believe that they stuck with the OCD thing for more than one episode. Many of the others seemed to be nonlinear and disjointed in the scheme of the overall narrative. None of it worked for me. None.
Anyway, this was the only enjoyable part of the entire episode......
because it's spot on about how ridiculously irritating Hannah has become.
What the fuck was that? Did he completely forget how she treated him when she dumped him? Is it a coincidence that he comes into money (it obviously was for the sake of the lazy writing) and she's all the sudden interested again? They deserve each other. Makes for uninteresting television, but whatever.
I completely agree. And I honestly can't believe that they stuck with the OCD thing for more than one episode. Many of the others seemed to be nonlinear and disjointed in the scheme of the overall narrative. None of it worked for me. None.
Anyway, this was the only enjoyable part of the entire episode......
because it's spot on about how ridiculously irritating Hannah has become.
Man, I love this show. It has some of the most complicated characters on TV. They're deeply flawed human beings, and in ways that actually make them less likable (as opposed to the typical TV character whose flaws make them more sympathetic or more conventionally entertaining) while still having virtues and competencies and even, yes, moments of heroism.
And as Sepinwall said, both sides come from the same place: the thing that makes you terrible also makes you awesome. Just look at that last scene. The exact same instinctual behavior that leads Adam to destroy his work in a fit of anger is what leads him to come save Hannah from herself. The same willingness to transgress boundaries that lets him come into her house and stalk her lets him break down her door at the end and rescue her.
This is the Empire Strikes Back downer ending (dark dark dark), only ironicized (the dark is presented as good) and folded in on season 1 (what looks good but is actually dark is where we were at the beginning of the show, which retroactively changes the whole show). Shosh falls from honest, innocent naivete to lying her way through a breakup so she can fuck somebody else (welcome to being an adult). Ray finds a reason to care and then loses it. Charlie and Marnie get back together out of neediness, insecurity, and inertia, which is a recipe for disaster (again). And Hannah and Adam are terrible for each other, except when they're not. Everybody's going in painful, ridiculous circles, looking for happiness from (and for) the wrong people.
Girls is a show about people who think they're moving forward when they're actually moving backwards. (And then sometimes, somehow, they move forward.) I can't wait for next season.
And as Sepinwall said, both sides come from the same place: the thing that makes you terrible also makes you awesome. Just look at that last scene. The exact same instinctual behavior that leads Adam to destroy his work in a fit of anger is what leads him to come save Hannah from herself. The same willingness to transgress boundaries that lets him come into her house and stalk her lets him break down her door at the end and rescue her.
This is the Empire Strikes Back downer ending (dark dark dark), only ironicized (the dark is presented as good) and folded in on season 1 (what looks good but is actually dark is where we were at the beginning of the show, which retroactively changes the whole show). Shosh falls from honest, innocent naivete to lying her way through a breakup so she can fuck somebody else (welcome to being an adult). Ray finds a reason to care and then loses it. Charlie and Marnie get back together out of neediness, insecurity, and inertia, which is a recipe for disaster (again). And Hannah and Adam are terrible for each other, except when they're not. Everybody's going in painful, ridiculous circles, looking for happiness from (and for) the wrong people.
Girls is a show about people who think they're moving forward when they're actually moving backwards. (And then sometimes, somehow, they move forward.) I can't wait for next season.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Ray is the only one moving forward. #teamRay
Dave Meltzer
Banned
I genuinely like 70% of the characters on this show. The only ones I dislike and Jessa and Shoshanna. And Jessa is borderline, it's more I don't feel much either way.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
Walter White has more redeeming qualities than Hannah.
Are you high?
dead souls
Member
I don't even care about redeeming qualities, I just want a character that is well acted and interesting to watch. Hannah Horvath is neither of those things.
-Pyromaniac-
Member
don't diss adam, he is the man! At least he has an excuse for the things he does. He is crazy.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
Just because she's annoying doesn't mean I can't also like her. I find her entertaining to watch at the least.
So now that Charlie made it big and makes a ton of money Marnie wants him back?
After she practically cut off his metaphorical nuts the last time?
What a chump Charlie is.
She a golddigger, Charlie!
Ray and Charlie are the only two reasonably likeable people on the show. And they are both chumps.
After she practically cut off his metaphorical nuts the last time?
What a chump Charlie is.
She a golddigger, Charlie!
Ray and Charlie are the only two reasonably likeable people on the show. And they are both chumps.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
The reason she dumped him last time wasn't cos be was poor but more a confidence, sexiness kinda thing. And now he has a dope as beard and goes down on chicks to a high standard so problem solved. It's a life lesson when you think about it.
I think people for some reason get hung up on the show's intentions. "How can the show expect me to like this character when she's so selfish?" "Am I supposed to think it's a good thing that Marnie and Charlie are back together?" The show is fiercely ambivalent about everything, though--it's good for Marnie to get back together with Charlie because she'll stop self-destructing (hopefully), but it's also bad because she's doing it for the wrong reasons and he won't make her happy (just like in Season 1, she'll just feel stifled again). Likewise, Adam and Hannah at the end is a triumphant moment and an absolute failure for both of them.
Case in point, a lot of reviewers seem to take Shoshanna's reasoning for breaking up with Ray at face value, when the show clearly intends you to question it. She's not breaking up with Ray because he's too dark/unambitious/adult, except in the vaguest sense of that last one--she's simply realized (or felt) that she doesn't yet want that storybook settle down romance (the one Marnie talks about with Charlie) that she used to want, what she really wants is to make out with that guy over there right now. She can't come out and admit it, but the show wants you to understand--and the show is ambiguous about whether Shosh growing up is good or bad. Good because she's progressing into adulthood; bad because she's progressing into the adulthood Girls has been chronicling, one filled with dishonesty, pain, betrayal, aimlessness, bad choices, ridiculous sex.
Overall I feel like people come away from the show having only seen (or believed or processed) half of it, and most people are getting different halves.
(Which is not to say that I'm seeing all of it. But there you go. And no, I'm not high.)
Case in point, a lot of reviewers seem to take Shoshanna's reasoning for breaking up with Ray at face value, when the show clearly intends you to question it. She's not breaking up with Ray because he's too dark/unambitious/adult, except in the vaguest sense of that last one--she's simply realized (or felt) that she doesn't yet want that storybook settle down romance (the one Marnie talks about with Charlie) that she used to want, what she really wants is to make out with that guy over there right now. She can't come out and admit it, but the show wants you to understand--and the show is ambiguous about whether Shosh growing up is good or bad. Good because she's progressing into adulthood; bad because she's progressing into the adulthood Girls has been chronicling, one filled with dishonesty, pain, betrayal, aimlessness, bad choices, ridiculous sex.
Overall I feel like people come away from the show having only seen (or believed or processed) half of it, and most people are getting different halves.
(Which is not to say that I'm seeing all of it. But there you go. And no, I'm not high.)
That's an interesting analysis. I'm glad you posted as well because I've been looking for more positive posts to counter my mostly negative opinion of the season as a whole.
dead souls
Member
Any hate she gets just helps to slightly balance out critic's unwarranted elevation of the marginally talented Lena Dunham.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
As a writer of dialogue I think she deserves praise. The long term story writing on the show needs work, but the "tone" of the show is hers and it is its greatest quality.
So people overly hate her character because the don't like Lena? Thats why I don't take the criticism from this thread seriously. Its like people are just trying to hate it.
Hannah is an awful human being. Its unsurprising the character is so despised.
RatskyWatsky
Hunky Nostradamus
That's not at all what he said.
She is an AWFUL human being? ok.
?
EDIT: Never mind. I thought he meant thats why people hate her.
dead souls
Member
I hate her character because she's both poorly written and poorly acted. What other reason would I need?
Dave Meltzer
Banned
She's an average human being.
I think this is a reasonable analysis of the place the show is at. I definitely agree with the criticism that this season was less cohesive than the last, though, to the point that I largely found audience reaction to the show more interesting than the show itself.
dead souls
Member
In what universe? I'm about as misanthropic as one can be and even I have a more positive view of humanity than that.
I haven't noticed anything wrong with her acting.
Exactly. Very flawed , but an average human being.
There are plenty young women like her. Look at how many people you see on the internet saying how much they can relate to her.
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