SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion

What was the point of going back to Rapture at the end aside from making we gamers say,"OMG BIOSHOCK 1"?

Yes it's the alternate reality, but was that reality even calculated in the Lutece's since this is Bioshock in the sky?
 
Miles Quaritch said:
I thought he did? He kept alluding it throughout his taunting in the museum.

Comstock wasn't there, but you were, etc.
Click to expand...

dark_inferno said:
He knew. He knew what Booker did. And he said Comstock claimed everything for himself. And somehow the dialog pointed at Comstock being Booker.
Click to expand...
See, I heard all that stuff. But then saying Comstock hadn't seen battle, and claimed Bookers achievements (of sorts) for himself doesn't make sense if he knows they are one and the same.

Unless he's trying to say that he doesn't see Comstock and Booker as the same person. But that would only serve as a cheap way to throw you off the scent.
 
The One Who Knocks said:
Ok, I think we're going to go in infinite circles if we continue so I'll conclude with this post, it would not be an oversight if they murder every Booker before the choice, which Elizabeth states they do (speculation to the contrary directly contradicts what is told in the game) If every Booker is killed by Elizabeth it means that every timeline in which Booker goes to the baptism and accepts is a paradox, because any Booker ever accepting results in his death before the choice occurs and his death relies upon his survival. The only outcome that won't involve a paradox is if Booker rejects it, because then it means he will have survived the baptism (because Booker only dies if any Booker accepts and every Booker that accepts is erased from the timeline). The mechanics of murdering Booker before the baptism is irrelevant, Elizabeth has become a god that can do anything she wants to the probability space. The simplest way to show the creation of a paradox is by the symbolism we saw, all of the Elizabeth's appearing to drown all of the Booker's before he did anything. She could equally murder Booker every single time he accepts, but you can't show this as easily in an ending to a game and it would still achieve the same result, create a paradox making the choice impossible, all it would do is make the ending longer.

Aplogies to everybody else for the large amounts of posts I've made on this point, sorry if it reads repetitively.
Click to expand...

youre right, we could go in circles, but it was fun!

even the "before the choice" line could be interpreted as "before the bad the choice". they were in the bad universe afterall.

i think things are clear cut, you think things are clear cut, so in the end i guess we have to concede that there's room for interpretation. i guess that's why ending wasn't perfect for me, very good, but not perfect. i would have preferred a more direct explanation from Elizabeth about everything but that might scuff the ethereal quality of it. so i won't fault anyone too much for it.
 
Neiteio said:
For the new page: How did Comstock become wealthy enough to fund Lutece's tear machine in the first place? And to build the floating city of Columbia, for that matter?
Click to expand...

Multiverse. Infinite universes means fundamentally that I would even be able to find infinite versions of you that are hanging out on Monaco on a yacht with a trophy wife around your arm.
 
Neiteio said:
I really want to know how Comstock became wealthy.

I also really want to go on an F12 photo safari in a second playthrough.
Click to expand...

Doesn't Elizabeth comment on this in the bank? Something about everyone paying a tithe of 40 or 50 per cent?

I believe there's also Vox where Fink talks about bankrolling Comstock, but I may be mistaken.
 
Kylehimself said:
See, I heard all that stuff. But then saying Comstock hadn't seen battle, and claimed Bookers achievements (of sorts) for himself doesn't make sense if he knows they are one and the same.

Unless he's trying to say that he doesn't see Comstock and Booker as the same person. But that would only serve as a cheap way to throw you off the scent.
Click to expand...

same. i heard it all and could not connect the two together.

althought i'd question, if booker knew Slate, and Slate knew booker and Comstock, why didn't booker know comstock?
 
claviertekky said:
I saw the reference of the Luteces literally digging their own graves. What a visual representation.

Just saw the ending and the post credits bit.

What am I missing from the post credits part? In the reality that Anna was never born?
Click to expand...

No no, the Graveyard Shift is the bar in the Slum section of the game.
 
Sorian said:
I assume he became wealthy because he founded his own religion. I don't want to sound like an ass but religious fanatics are happy to dump cash on their prophet.
Click to expand...

Jacksonlee said:
as he became pious, he begat a collection of people who gave him money?

thats how i see it
Click to expand...
Actually, that's quite possible. This makes me wonder about the trajectory of Comstock's religious movement. What was he preaching originally? That America had gone astray, and that he had heavenly visions for he and his flock to go their own way? And so people started following him, and he became wealthy from their contributions, and with that money he funded Lutece's experiments in quantum mechanics, which led to the suspension of atoms mid-air, and the construction of a floating city based on this discovery, and then through the tear machine, additional technology was gleaned from observation of parallel realities?

Also, to support the money claim, in the Bank of the Prophet, Elizabeth checks some records and notes that all citizens of Columbia are required to give half of their income to Comstock. So yeah, he's not above collecting from his followers...
 
DTKT said:
Fink has a brother?

Wat
Click to expand...

missed me too..


also this from WIki


Robert (Oliver Vaquer) and Rosalind Lutece (Jennifer Hale) are two mysterious individuals that direct Booker to Columbia and appear throughout his travels. They appear to be near-identical fraternal twins, but it is later revealed that they are the same person from two different realities
Click to expand...
 
TheBaronOfNA said:
My impression was that he was already rich, the tears just make him way more...
Click to expand...

My impression was that he definitely was the crafty sort and wasn't down on his luck or anything, but I don't think he would have been rich enough to throw money at a floating city yet.

DTKT said:
Fink has a brother?

Wat
Click to expand...

Fink's brother is a great musician of Columbia and he was the one that created all of the covers of these songs we are talking about. He would hang around tears and listen to the music coming from them and plagerize it to the style of the time.
 
Sorian said:
My impression was that he definitely was the craft sort and wasn't down on his luck or anything, but I don't think he would have been rich enough to throw money at a floating city yet.



Fink's brother is a great musician of Columbia and he was the one that created all of the covers of these songs we are talking about. He would hang around tears and listen to the music coming from them and plagerize it to the style of the time.
Click to expand...

oh wow. so much backstory i've missed! i really gotta go back on Easy mode.
 
Neiteio said:
Actually, that's quite possible. This makes me wonder about the trajectory of Comstock's religious movement. What was he preaching originally? That America had gone astray, and that he had heavenly visions for he and his flock to go their own way? And so people started following him, and he became wealthy from their contributions, and with that money he funded Lutece's experiments in quantum mechanics, which led to the suspension of atoms mid-air, and the construction of a floating city based on this discovery, and then through the tear machine, additional technology was gleaned from observation of parallel realities?

Also, to support the money claim, in the Bank of the Prophet, Elizabeth checks some records and notes that all citizens of Columbia are required to give half of their income to Comstock. So yeah, he's not above collecting from his followers...
Click to expand...

I'm curious of these details as well. I don't quite know what he was preching before Columbia went up in the air. I imagine he just became a traveling precher that was spouting the usual and his strong conviction gathered him quite the following.
 
Neiteio said:
For the new page: How did Comstock become wealthy enough to fund Lutece's tear machine in the first place? And to build the floating city of Columbia, for that matter?
Click to expand...

It was previously mentioned, but seeing that Booker is a failed gambler living in debt, then the complete opposite for Comstock would be a nice twist
 
claviertekky said:
What was the point of going back to Rapture at the end aside from making we gamers say,"OMG BIOSHOCK 1"?

Yes it's the alternate reality, but was that reality even calculated in the Lutece's since this is Bioshock in the sky?
Click to expand...

"There is always a Lighthouse, a man and a city."

Comstock = Ryan

Handyman/Songbird = Big Daddies

Columbia = Rapture

And the Lighthouses are almost identical externally.
 
claviertekky said:
What was the point of going back to Rapture at the end aside from making we gamers say,"OMG BIOSHOCK 1"?

Yes it's the alternate reality, but was that reality even calculated in the Lutece's since this is Bioshock in the sky?
Click to expand...

Elizabeth had to kill Songbird who couldn't handle water pressure.
 
Jacksonlee said:
same. i heard it all and could not connect the two together.

althought i'd question, if booker knew Slate, and Slate knew booker and Comstock, why didn't booker know comstock?
Click to expand...
Well Booker wouldn't know Comstock because he was pulled out of a Universe where Comstock didn't exist, because he would never of went on to become him.

But Booker and Slate fought together. Either Slate doesn't know Booker and Comstock are the same person. Which is why he claims that Comstock had never seen battle and had claimed Booker's history. Or he does know, and the dialogue serves as further hints to say, "Hey, you're Comstock!" but without making it obvious. So they make him act as if Slate doesn't consider the two to be the same. Which as I said, just comes across as a cheap way to make you second guess yourself.

If he doesn't know, how did he come to be under Comstock?

If he does know, why does act as if Comstock didn't do the thing he knows he did? Unless, like I said above, it's purely to put you off the scent.
 
Neiteio said:
Actually, that's quite possible. This makes me wonder about the trajectory of Comstock's religious movement. What was he preaching originally? That America had gone astray, and that he had heavenly visions for he and his flock to go their own way? And so people started following him, and he became wealthy from their contributions, and with that money he funded Lutece's experiments in quantum mechanics, which led to the suspension of atoms mid-air, and the construction of a floating city based on this discovery, and then through the tear machine, additional technology was gleaned from observation of parallel realities?

Also, to support the money claim, in the Bank of the Prophet, Elizabeth checks some records and notes that all citizens of Columbia are required to give half of their income to Comstock. So yeah, he's not above collecting from his followers...
Click to expand...
The U.S. Govt. was all for Columbia in the beginning before the Boxer Rebellion incident, including funding. This timeline details it better. I'd imagine the 50% tithe kept things flowing once they became a truly independent nation.
 
Apophenia Overload said:
They're both caricatures of Objectivist ubermen that Ayn Rand could have populated Atlas Shrugged with. They seek out their ideals of perfection that clash with the "parasites" or "mundanes" of normal society, and in their extremism become dangerous. They fit in well with Rapture being a degenerated owner's state full of ideological violence.
Click to expand...

Yes, but they don't have anything to do with the actual story. If you were giving a plot synopsis of Bioshock, they wouldn't really be necessary - like I said, they're more like little Rapture short stories.
 
GoddyofAus said:
"There is always a Lighthouse, a man and a city."

Comstock = Ryan

Handyman/Songbird = Big Daddies

Columbia = Rapture

And the Lighthouses are almost identical externally.
Click to expand...

Basically the timelines/story of both games (i.e. Bioshock 1 and Infinite) are the same with different main figures. However, that leaves the question who is literally the Daisy (Atlas? Fontaine?), Slate, and Songbird of those timelines.

I had a thought that Elizabeth was the same thing as the Little girls who assisted the big daddies.
 
Sorian said:
I'm curious of these details as well. I don't quite know what he was preching before Columbia went up in the air. I imagine he just became a traveling precher that was spouting the usual and his strong conviction gathered him quite the following.
Click to expand...
Comstock's religion seems like a sort of fourth Abrahamic religion (or fifth, if you count Mormonism as separate from Christianity proper). He doesn't mention Jesus, so it would seem he sees Jesus as either irrelevant or simply another prophet, while viewing himself as the true prophet tasked with fulfilling God's will. He essentially takes the original Old Testament (all of the references to Noah's Ark and the Great Flood, etc), and then makes his own tale the prevailing New Testament, if you would, with himself as humanity's savior figure.
 
Kylehimself said:
Well Booker wouldn't know Comstock because he was pulled out of a Universe where Comstock didn't exist, because he would never of went on to become him.

But Booker and Slate fought together. Either Slate doesn't know Booker and Comstock are the same person. Which is why he claims that Comstock had never seen battle and had claimed Booker's history. Or he does know, and the dialogue serves as further hints to say, "Hey, you're Comstock!" but without making it obvious. So they make him act as if Slate doesn't consider the two to be the same. Which as I said, just comes across as a cheap way to make you second guess yourself.

If he doesn't know, how did he come to be under Comstock?

If he does know, why does act as if Comstock didn't do the thing he knows he did? Unless, like I said above, it's purely to put you off the scent.
Click to expand...

Since I think he doesn't know, I'll answer this question. I imagine it is because Comstock saught him out because obviously Comstock would know who Slate was and asked him to be a high rank in his security guard. Slate would have assumed that it was because his name had spread as a ruthless sort during the wounded knee battle but the real reason was because Comstock had sen first hand what slate could do.

TheBaronOfNA said:
He may had finaced the Lutecee initial experiments.
Click to expand...

Idk about this, I don't see Fink as the type that is willing to invest money into theoreticals.
 
claviertekky said:
Basically the timelines/story of both games (i.e. Bioshock 1 and Infinite) are the same with different main figures. However, that leaves the question who is literally the Daisy (Atlas? Fontaine?), Slate, and Songbird of those timelines.

I had a thought that Elizabeth was the same thing as the Little girls who assisted the big daddies.
Click to expand...

There doesn't really have to be a direct parallel, only a subtle one. You don't kill Comstock with a Golf club, for example but he still dies by your hand.
 
TheBaronOfNA said:
But the plasmids work with ADAM that is only obtained in the sea: http://bioshock.wikia.com/wiki/ADAM

The vigors seem to work with the Syphon
Click to expand...

I never said they were the exact same thing, I just said that all of his ideas were based on what he saw through the rapture tear. He even says this himself in one of his audio diaries, just without using the word rapture.

Kylehimself said:
Also, do we know what the archangel was all about?
Click to expand...

The "Archangel" was just the twins and their machine. It could see through time and space but Comstock didn't want to tell his flock that so he said he was being visited by an angel.
 
This is what i found about Comstock being rich : He could got the money for being a prophet (he saw an angel saying to him he should build a city in the sky... maybe Liz?). He even had friends in the politics who helped him building the american flagship because they somehow wanted this thing to happen. So i assume that Lutece and Comstock found each other befor he met the politics. So he was somehow lead to this point by several things.

claviertekky said:
Basically the timelines/story of both games (i.e. Bioshock 1 and Infinite) are the same with different main figures. However, that leaves the question who is literally the Daisy (Atlas? Fontaine?), Slate, and Songbird of those timelines.

I had a thought that Elizabeth was the same thing as the Little girls who assisted the big daddies.
Click to expand...


The only constant you get is sentence : "There is always a Lighthouse, a man and a city.". The rest is somehow cool with Songbird being Big Daddies but not a must.
 
Thinking about all of this, I suppose Ken Levine is done with Bioshock series.

No more Bioshock ever. See infinite possibilities + alternate parallel universes lolololololol. Almost passive aggressive attack on Bioshock 2. Y U MADE BIOSHOCK 2 2K?

What would the DLC season pass add? More pointless battles?
 
claviertekky said:
Thinking about all of this, I suppose Ken Levine is done with Bioshock series.

No more Bioshock ever. See infinite possibilities + alternate paralle universes lolololololol.

What would the DLC season pass add?
Click to expand...

Songbird backstory!

Edit: And yes, it would be more pointless battles if they do a DLC based on the Booker that died as a martyr :/
 
Sorian said:
Songbird backstory!

Edit: And yes, it would be more pointless battles if they do a DLC based on the Booker that died as a martyr :/
Click to expand...

Fight infinite airships and with an added twist, Elizabeth can now die.

Objective: Elizabeth cannot die.

gg
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Super LTTP: Bioshock Infinite...
Opinion 
39
2K
kiphalfton replied
  • Poll
Clair Obscur: Expedition 33 SPOILER POLL [WARNING: The poll contains spoilers]
2 3 4 5 6
293
3K
rubik's dude replied
Metal Gear Advice, Playthrough Order, General Discussion (HUGE SPOILERS)
2
57
3K
Killer8 replied
Astro Bot Spoiler Thread
6
706
TheDarkPhantom replied
Hogwarts Legacy Switch 2 VS XSS comparison (Spoiler alert: They're basically the same)
2 3 4
188
12K
Ritsumei2020 replied
Top Bottom