SPOILER Bioshock Infinite SPOILER discussion

Because they are scared of them. Right at the beginning there were some guys who talked about them and one said that he will wait until some more people tested it.

I answered you about both Slate and Archangel already so you can go find those on your own. I'm willing to answer questions but I'm not willing to coddle you. We don't know how vigors work but, to be honest, we didn't know how plasmids worked eitehr other than ADAM was a power source. All we know here is that Salts are a power source, same deal. Near the beginning of the game, you can hear a couple talking about vigors. The woman states that she would love to try them but she is waiting for the problems to be rectified through Fink industries. This tells us that there is some type of downfall to using vigors that has the general populace scared to try them as of yet. She also says that she can't wait to have a go with them once Fink irons out the kinks. The populace has access to them and wants to use them but they are waiting for FDA approval as it were.

The prophet doesn't care what the people do. If anyone misbehaves, the songbird will off them without a second thought. As far as we are concerned, the songbird is infallible and can't be killed by normal means so he has no concerns of any black sheep in his flock.

Please go on..... everything you've listed is easy mode so far.
This is exactly why I think it's lacking. We hear one NPC say, "I'm waiting til they iron the kinks out" Wow, that plot!

Also, I just read what you said about the Archangel. In one of the Voxophones, Comstock says the archangel tells him he needs his child. He then says he asks Lutece for help but she refuses.

So, Lutece tells him to get his child, but then says she won't help?
 
What was the motivation for Luteces to do this to Booker? To rip Anna to an alternate reality?

Was it just some kind of twisted experiment simply because they were bored?
 
The bombing was happening in 1983, you can see the year on a billboard in the background. I believe all the 80s refrences were to forshadow this destruction.

Right you are. Jedi and Girls Just Wanna Have Fun came out in 83. I guess the larger question I was asking, was why did the artists of Columbia rerecord all the music? If it was all part of old Elizabeth's plan to get Booker to watch the bombing and give him the card, why does it spill over into the culture so much. Maybe I am just looking for a deeper meaning when there isnt any.
 
This is exactly why I think it's lacking. We hear one NPC say, "I'm waiting til they iron the kinks out" Wow, that plot!

Also, I just read what you said about the Archangel. In one of the Voxophones, Comstock says the archangel tells him he needs his child. He then says he asks Lutece for help but she refuses.

So, Lutece tells him to get his child, but then says she won't help?

If an accident happened and a few people died because Fink didnt finished the product. Then you would have an explanation.
 
This is exactly why I think it's lacking. We hear one NPC say, "I'm waiting til they iron the kinks out" Wow, that plot!

Also, I just read what you said about the Archangel. In one of the Voxophones, Comstock says the archangel tells him he needs his child. He then says he asks Lutece for help but she refuses.

So, Lutece tells him to get his child, but then says she won't help?

The "help" that he was asking the Lutece for was to bear his child. Comstock didn't know he was sterile, he thought it was an issue with Lady Comstock.

And yeah, "that plot" Vigors aren't important to the grand plot so the answer isn't going to be found all over the place.
 
The "help" that he was asking the Lutece for was to bear his child. Comstock didn't know he was sterile, he thought it was an issue with Lady Comstock.

And yeah, "that plot" Vigors aren't important to the grand plot so the answer isn't going to be found all over the place.

Why did the Luteces help Comstock?
 
What was the motivation for Luteces to do this to Booker? To rip Anna to an alternate reality?

Was it just some kind of twisted experiment simply because they were bored?

They were working with Comstock at the time and had no reason to dislike him and yeah, they are kind of crazy so they just like seeing what will happen in cases like this. Edit: They always think in experiments so they love seeing "if we do this, what happens?"

Right you are. Jedi and Girls Just Wanna Have Fun came out in 83. I guess the larger question I was asking, was why did the artists of Columbia rerecord all the music? If it was all part of old Elizabeth's plan to get Booker to watch the bombing and give him the card, why does it spill over into the culture so much. Maybe I am just looking for a deeper meaning when there isnt any.

The only extra thing having to do with the music is that it wasn't the artists of columbia rerecording all of the music. It was one guy, Fink's brother, doing all the music. He hung out near the tears a plagerized all of the music into the current style of the time and became rich off of that. I imagine this money also transferred to Fink before he got his empire going.

Why did the Luteces help Comstock?

Sorry for taking long to answer, See this post.
 
The deeper plot to this game has so much missing its not even funny.

Just on the last page I asked about Slate and nobody can give me an answer. Archangel, tell me about that? Vigors, how do they work? How do they not effect people like plasmids? Why are they constantly peddled around Columbia yet three people in the whole game use them? Why would the prophet even support their use? Plasmids makes sense in the world of Rapture with it's selfish citizens looking to constantly better themselves and become something they aren't. They seem out of place in Columbia. I could go on...

What do you mean Archangel? How does knowing how Vigors work have anything to do with the plot?
 
Because they are scared of them. Right at the beginning there were some guys who talked about them and one said that he will wait until some more people tested it.
Uh huh. It seemed like Fink was just introducing vigors to the skeptical public, just like the Columbia Worlds Fair in Chicago introduced electric lighting en masse. There's already a following from a few specialized groups.
 
The "help" that he was asking the Lutece for was to bear his child. Comstock didn't know he was sterile, he thought it was an issue with Lady Comstock.

And yeah, "that plot" Vigors aren't important to the grand plot so the answer isn't going to be found all over the place.
So are you saying archangel is Lutece telling Comstock what to do? For his religion? What incentive does she have to do this?

And as far as I recall, it is never said by either Lutece or Comstock that he wished Lutece to have his child. Only that Lady Comstock thinks that the child could be Lutece's.

Either I'm really stupid, or there is so much conjecture / reading between the lines going on that it's become ridiculous.
 
Seems like all the answers point to this:

For every time rip/tear, Booker tries to rationalize the events surrounding him by filling with memories or rather excuses that "seem to fit."

For every nosebleed/blood on fingers, Booker is in a reality where he doesn't exist, and the reality is confused whether he or the person next to him is living or not living.

Any disjunction or plothole in the storyline is just Booker filling in memories.

Infinite possibilities. lolololololol

:/

I thought this story would be much better than this.
 
What was the motivation for Luteces to do this to Booker? To rip Anna to an alternate reality?

Was it just some kind of twisted experiment simply because they were bored?

The Comstock/Elizabeth timeline ends with new York's destruction - which is viewed by the Player Booker and Old Elizabeth. Bringing Booker(s) over is a means to stopping this for happening,
 
So are you saying archangel is Lutece telling Comstock what to do? For his religion? What incentive does she have to do this?

And as far as I recall, it is never said by either Lutece or Comstock that he wished Lutece to have his child. Only that Lady Comstock thinks that the child could be Lutece's.

Either I'm really stupid, or there is so much conjecture / reading between the lines going on that it's become ridiculous.

As I said above, the Lutece's are just doing this because they enjoy seeing what will happen. So yes, Archangel is just the luteces and their machine. If Comstock hadn't tried to kill the twins off, I'm sure they would have happily kept feeding him info as long as he kept doing new things that could affect the universe.

There is some reading between the lines when it comes to the whole Lutece having his baby thing but it is the only thing that makes sense for the diary. If you ask someone for help and they are already doing something for you, obviously you aren't asking them to do the same thing for you, you ask for something else. She declined whatever he asked but they still delivered a baby to him so she must have declined allowing him to try having a baby with her but they still went and found his flesh and blood somehow. The same diary talking about when she declined him also mentions that she knew he was sterile while he did not. Why mention that if it didn't fit?
 
So are you saying archangel is Lutece telling Comstock what to do? For his religion? What incentive does she have to do this?

And as far as I recall, it is never said by either Lutece or Comstock that he wished Lutece to have his child. Only that Lady Comstock thinks that the child could be Lutece's.

Either I'm really stupid, or there is so much conjecture / reading between the lines going on that it's become ridiculous.

If by "Archangel" you mean how Comstock got his prophecies, it is explained in a Vox from Lutece. She says that Comstock believes these tears are prophecies from god but they are really just windows to other possible realities. Lutece isn't telling him anything about what will happen. He is seeing it himself through the tears.
 
Seems like all the answers point to this:

For every time rip/tear, Booker tries to rationalize the events surrounding him by filling with memories or rather excuses that "seem to fit."

For every nosebleed/blood on fingers, Booker is in a reality where he doesn't exist, and the reality is confused whether he or the person next to him is living or not living.

Any disjunction or plothole in the storyline is just Booker filling in memories.

Infinite possibilities. lolololololol

:/

I thought this story would be much better than this.

The bolded isn't true at all. The nosebleeds occur when you start receiving information that greatly clashes with the info you already have. Being somewhere you aren't supposed to be is one way of this happening but not the only way.
 
So is there a reality that Booker gets to kill the Luteces and nothing ever happens?

No Bioshock in the air or in the sea or anything?

Seems like the Luteces are the puppet holders controlling the people in the world.

The bolded isn't true at all. The nosebleeds occur when you start receiving information that greatly clashes with the info you already have. Being somewhere you aren't supposed to be is one way of this happening but not the only way.

? What I said doesn't mean there is a reality clash? wat
 
So is there a reality that Booker gets to kill the Luteces and nothing ever happens?

No Bioshock in the air or in the sea or anything?



? What I said doesn't mean there isn't a reality crash?

If Booker kills the Luteces nothing happens. Because they can appear everywhere and everytime. They are in multiple universe at the same. Try killing ininite Luteces.

Bioshock in space

It was obvious that the next one is on the moon right? I hope for Nazi Dinosaurs. Levine can handle strangeness really good in games.
 
So is there a reality that Booker gets to kill the Luteces and nothing ever happens?

No Bioshock in the air or in the sea or anything?

Seems like the Luteces are the puppet holders controlling the people in the world.

Since there is infinite realities, of course there is a reality where Comstock kills the twins and nothing happens but because there was that one reality where Comstock asked Fink to kill the twins in "an accident" and he sabotaged their machines. They are now everywhere because they are a glitch in their own time-space machine.


? What I said doesn't mean there is a reality clash? wat

As I noted in my post, what you said is correct but is only one specific example. A nose bleed does not always mean you are dead in that reality, it may just mean you are a completely different person and have completely different memories.
 
I saw this in the GameTrailers review that there is a game over screen.

What are the variables for that to occur?

No money left or die x number of times?

Or is there no gameover screen?

Maybe there is a tear in my reality right now.
 
I saw this in the GameTrailers review that there is a game over screen.

What are the variables for that to occur?

No money left or die x number of times?

Game over if that reactor blows up during the final fight. I believe that is the only way.

And possibly no money as well, I believe running out of money makes you reload a prior auto-save.
 
Fabulous game.

Although it's somewhat disappointing that the ending was spoiled by their old concept art for Comstock.

Figured most things out a couple of hours in.
 
Alright I have 2 questions after beating it.

How do Booker and Comstock exist in the same universes if they are the same person? Wouldn't this create some sort of paradox?

Are Booker and Comstock supposed to be the same age? I get 20 years have passed since he gave up Elizabeth/Anna, but Booker looks like someone in his 40s while Comstock seems to be in his 70s. Unless this is an effect that the tears and the Lutece's technology has on him, making him age quicker.
 
Game over if that reactor blows up during the final fight. I believe that is the only way.

And possibly no money as well, I believe running out of money makes you reload a prior auto-save.

Well I experienced that one. So frustrated. Had to glitch the game for the enemies to stop attacking the reactor by using the possession magic.
 
How does Comstock know about the false shepherd?

Did the Luteces tell him since they seem to be buddy buddy?

Comstock works it out that it's himself in a timeline where he rejected the choice at the baptism, this can be seen in his office where he was trying to plot different timelines and which branch leads where. With regard to the specifics of the False Shepard he likely saw it within a tear.

The Luteces don't tell him things though, they show him through the tears opened by their tear machine.

What was the motivation for Luteces to do this to Booker? To rip Anna to an alternate reality?
Was it just some kind of twisted experiment simply because they were bored?
Their story is told entirely in the Voxophones. The male Luteces wishes to reset the timeline believing their interference was a mistake. The female Lutece sees their interference as irrelevant in the see of timelines. The male Lutece is unhappy that they are split within the timelines, the female Lutece doesn't care. The male Lutece gave an ultimatum to the female Lutece, either she helps him or they part. As a result, the Luteces are trying to manipulate timelines to create the timeline in which the timeline creates a paradox that prevents everything from happening by forcing the universe to remove these timelines.
Why did the Luteces help Comstock?
Female Comstock doesn't particularly care, she's extremely nihilistic. All she wanted was to be with the alternative version of herself who is exactly the same except male (only he holds opposite philosophical views).

Out of interest, how many Voxophones did you find? The key to the overall story is contained within the Voxophones.


Alright I have 2 questions after beating it.

How do Booker and Comstock exist in the same universes if they are the same person? Wouldn't this create some sort of paradox?

Are Booker and Comstock supposed to be the same age? I get 20 years have passed since he gave up Elizabeth/Anna, but Booker looks like someone in his 40s while Comstock seems to be in his 70s. Unless this is an effect that the tears and the Lutece's technology has on him, making him age quicker.

The Luteces bring rejection set of Bookers into the acception set in order to reset the timeline. The consequence of this is the conflict of memories between two versions of a person who exist in the same timeframe yet underwent different memories which leads to corruption, supression and erasion of memories for the one that crossed over, who then creates new memories based around previously important information to justify their presence to fill in any gaps left in their memory. Nosebleeds occur because of this immense conflict, the cognitive dissonance that occurs when you try to remember memories where conflicting memories exist. There is no paradox until the end.

They are both the same age. Both are thirty seven. The bolded is correct, this is explained in the final Voxophone:
The Prophet is dying. The metastasis has aged him so quickly. Why does this Comstock decay, while a Comstock in another world remains fit? If genetics are destiny, what accounts for the difference? Perhaps exposure to the contraption? Hm. It merits further study.
 
you know considering that Bioshock 2 had nothing to do with Irrational's universe 2K Marin should have gotten even further away from it

like, go all out, do stuff like this concept art

Alpha-Series_Big_Daddy_Concept_Art.jpg

fuck it
 
Alright I have 2 questions after beating it.

How do Booker and Comstock exist in the same universes if they are the same person? Wouldn't this create some sort of paradox?

Are Booker and Comstock supposed to be the same age? I get 20 years have passed since he gave up Elizabeth/Anna, but Booker looks like someone in his 40s while Comstock seems to be in his 70s. Unless this is an effect that the tears and the Lutece's technology has on him, making him age quicker.

As you see in the ending, Booker and Comstock do not originally exist in the same dimension. The twins pull Booker into a dimension where he became Comstock and created Columbia.

You are right on the second point. The game notes that continued exposure to tear technology makes the body degrade faster, causes cancer, and causes sterility.
 
Comstock works it out that it's himself in a timeline where he rejected the choice at the baptism, this can be seen in his office where he was trying to plot different timelines and which branch leads where. With regard to the specifics of the False Shepard he likely saw it within a tear.

The Luteces don't tell him things though, they show him through the tears opened by their tear machine.


Their story is told entirely in the Voxophones. The male Luteces wishes to reset the timeline believing their interference was a mistake. The female Lutece sees their interference as irrelevant in the see of timelines. The male Lutece is unhappy that they are split within the timelines, the female Lutece doesn't care. The male Lutece gave an ultimatum to the female Lutece, either she helps him or they part. As a result, the Luteces are trying to manipulate timelines to create the timeline in which the timeline creates a paradox that prevents everything from happening by forcing the universe to remove these timelines.

Female Comstock doesn't particularly care, she's extremely nihilistic. All she wanted was to be with the alternative version of herself who is exactly the same except male (only he holds opposite philosophical views).

Out of interest, how many Voxophones did you find? The key to the overall story is contained within the Voxophones.

60+.

Also missing a few of the viewfinder videos.

During the game, I was led to believe that Comstock is one version of Booker, and Anna was Elizabeth who looked like a bigger version of the Bioshock 1 little sister. I expected some sort of reveal that female Comstock was female Lutece, but I'm not so quite sure any more.

I also expected AD would be referenced to Andrew Dewitt who then was really Andrew Ryan from Bioshock 1. It did occur to me that A could also mean Anna, which appears to what Ken Levine wanted.

Then I saw the ending which then I'm led to believe there are some guiding principles that form the conclusions about the happenings in the game.
 
I've started replaying the game on 1999 mode, and I have to say I'm a little disappointed the latter portion of the game doesn't use the concepts brought up in the intro more. The whole docking buildings part was really awesome and I thought they would use that more, like have an action sequence on a building that you had to wait to dock before you could get away. Something like that would have been neat.

Also there was the whole focus on the sword, the key, and the scroll at the very beginning and it's really never mentioned again once the story gets heavy on the tears.
 
I saw this in the GameTrailers review that there is a game over screen.

What are the variables for that to occur?

No money left or die x number of times?

Or is there no gameover screen?

Maybe there is a tear in my reality right now.

If you run out of money in 1999 mode you have to start over. That's the only way.
 
you know considering that Bioshock 2 had nothing to do with Irrational's universe 2K Marin should have gotten even further away from it

like, go all out, do stuff like this concept art



fuck it

Bioshock 2 is fanfiction-quality at best and I dunno if adding "big daddy but ZOMBIE!" would have helped much to separate it from that distinction in my mind.
 
If you run out of money in 1999 mode you have to start over. That's the only way.

oh that's fucking bullshit

and by bullshit why would you put yourself through that

I felt that somewhat the shooting element in the game didn't add anything to the overall story aside from Booker is a ruthless mass murderer.

is there a super special extended ending in 1999 mode?
 
Bioshock 2 is fanfiction-quality at best and I dunno if adding "big daddy but ZOMBIE!" would have helped much to separate it from that distinction in my mind.

that's what I mean though

like, might as well, if you're already doing that

every Bioshock concept art looks creepy as hell compared to what the final game was, and the best moments of Bioshock 2 was when they played with the shadows and tried to make the game very moody and whatnot

I just imagine how it would have been if the game was scarier and just overall more fucked up
 
I have my own theories (and that's what I love about this kind of story), but I'd like to ask you guys these things:

1- Why Booker became some kind of Vox leader after delivering the guns? On the loading screens, he said he didn't trust Fitzroy, so what were his motivations?

2- Comstock killed the Letuce brothers to hide the truth. Was that the motivation for them to go get Booker?

3- What the hell Valve and Ubisoft Montreal have done to be on the Credits? haha
 
60+.

Also missing a few of the viewfinder videos.

During the game, I was led to believe that Comstock is one version of Booker, and Anna was Elizabeth who looked like a bigger version of the Bioshock 1 little sister. I expected some sort of reveal that female Comstock was female Lutece, but I'm not so quite sure any more.

I also expected AD would be referenced to Andrew Dewitt who then was really Andrew Ryan from Bioshock 1. It did occur to me that A could also mean Anna, which appears to what Ken Levine wanted.

Then I saw the ending which then I'm led to believe there are some guiding principles that form the conclusions about the happenings in the game.

I think they would have been stretching if they tried to make too many literal connections to Bioshock 1. It would have felt like Great Expectations and that is a shit piece of literature.
 
All *Shock games are basically fanfics of the original Bioshock by this point.

The "there is always one lighthouse, one man, one plan, one canal" line basically emphasizes that they are more or less the same conflict with the same characters repeated again. It means Levine's gone all Bioware on us and decided to use the same general template to his stories. The original Bioshock heavily cribbed from System Shock 2 anyway.
 
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