The_Hitcher89
Member
Aren't Sony approaching the brink, while Nintendo have a multi-billion dollar warchest set aside in case things go wrong?
Iwata's Broken Promises (NotEnoughShaders article)
- Thread starter eternalb
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Aren't Sony approaching the brink, while Nintendo have a multi-billion dollar warchest set aside in case things go wrong?
I, for one, thinks he and his underlings need to be ousted. They need fresh blood a new guard at Nintendo. NoA and NoE should be free to do just about what the want with out much interference from NCL.
TreasureHunterG
Banned
Before him, Nintendo games were better and Nintendo consoles weren't restricted only for Nintendo's own games like it became under his wing. I don't care how much money Nintendo have if their games and consoles can't no longer satisfy me the way they did before. I would praise the hell out of Nintendo's profits if I was a shareholder, but I'm not, I'm a gamer and speaking as gamer I can't no longer defend what it turned out under Iwata.
JordanN
Banned
Nintendo suffered their first loss in decades with Iwata.
That's more dangerous than some Virtual Boy screw up (which was axed fast).
SolarPowered
Member
If Reggie was useless then it's still on Iwata for letting NOA languish for all these years.
Edit:
Nice, looks like I'm not the only one who feels this way.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
Iwata's time is up. He's got lucky with Wii and DS but he's not shown in the last 5 years he has any idea how to keep up with trends in the market. If he doesn't quit he could very well kill Nintendo.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Malstrom blog has done an excellent job of encouraging bitter Nintendo fans to partake in an unsettling, creepy vendetta against everyone who works at Nintendo. Including outright personal attacks and ad hominem deconstructions of Japanese guys nobody actually knows anything about.
Possibly the finest professional concern troll in video games today.
Holy Order Sol
Member
Maybe I'll start giving a fuck if/when I'm no longer satisfied by the games themselves.
OK, lets say Iwata didn't become president of Nintendo. Lets say in an alternative universe he wasn't even born. What hypothetical CEO do you see Nintendo having? And this was just around GameCube time, coming in third place to a new comer who has almost 0 penetration in the Japanese market even today.
Where do you see their profits? Where would you see their 1st party content? 3rd party relations? What about these bridges you speak of? You really think Nintendo would have made a powerhouse system? Really? Do you really thing things would have turned out better. And for who?
luck had nothing to do with it. he was able to see a market that could exist and captured it (however brief the time). this was due to excellent marketing and design work. the 3ds and wii u are extremely lazy and uninspired efforts compared to their predecessors.
ItWasMeantToBe19
Banned
I really hope he isn't as influential as you imply he is. I haven't seen him mentioned before today in the last four years...
blizzardjesus
Banned
None of this is gonna matter once Smash and Mario Kart come out. The company is profitable regardless of what they do. Profit margins will be lower than the wii years, cause its practically impossible to sell more systems than the wii did.
Yea it sucks that i don't have much to play other than NSMBU and Nintendo land, but I got plenty on the 3DS, and i'm sure thats how they look at it.
Iwata's doing fine, but Reggie needs to be replaced.
Yea it sucks that i don't have much to play other than NSMBU and Nintendo land, but I got plenty on the 3DS, and i'm sure thats how they look at it.
Iwata's doing fine, but Reggie needs to be replaced.
How does one get lucky with a company one owns not just one time, but twice?
That's the way I see it. I don't own stock. I don't care about Iwata or Reggie, or even Miyamoto unless I'm watching them at the time. As long as the games are just as good as they have been whenever they do come out I'm fine.
JordanN
Banned
That's a lot of what if's that equally apply to Iwata.
Could you seriously tell me in 2006 that the Wii was going to be some kind of roaring success? I'm guessing no.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
He got lucky they caught on. But considering how terrible the selling points for 3ds and Wii u are, I feel there has to have been somebody else back in 2002 or so who came up with the DS and Wii concepts, because clearly nobody there now even understands what made them popular.
TreasureHunterG
Banned
Iwata pretty much destroyed western 3rd-party relations with Nintendo with his japanese centric approach and further disassemble of NoA's development teams and second-parties.
CheesecakeRecipe
Stormy Grey
The Red Ocean/Blue Ocean stuff had me laughing at how stupid it sounded.
Some interesting points raised through the whole article and I think Iwata is well aware that he may not be the man for the job since he offered his job on the table should the Wii U fail to regain traction. He's a good dude by all public appearances, I love his Iwata Asks stuff and the whimsical Nintendo Directs. But I really think that the whole company could use a bit of a shakeup, from NoJ rethinking their hardware aspects to NoA learning what it is the fans want and giving it to them. I know it's nowhere near that simple though, and it makes me sad as I grew up with Nintendo systems and have that nostalgic attachment.
Some interesting points raised through the whole article and I think Iwata is well aware that he may not be the man for the job since he offered his job on the table should the Wii U fail to regain traction. He's a good dude by all public appearances, I love his Iwata Asks stuff and the whimsical Nintendo Directs. But I really think that the whole company could use a bit of a shakeup, from NoJ rethinking their hardware aspects to NoA learning what it is the fans want and giving it to them. I know it's nowhere near that simple though, and it makes me sad as I grew up with Nintendo systems and have that nostalgic attachment.
SolarPowered
Member
This is my first time learning about how many TVs the average Western family owns. Holy crap... why would they spend so much money per unit on the off TV feature when so many families own more than three television sets? I'm genuinely confused and curious.
I've heard this argument before. It's not relevant, and frankly ridiculous. You don't keep a bad CEO around because the damage is done, or because it will take a while to change. You get someone new in place and try to right the ship.
My idea of Nintendo is a company still making games 10 years from now. 20 years from now. I'd like to see that happen, and that means getting rid of the dead weight and fixing this mess.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
They didn't think about the west when designing Wii U.
Freezie KO
Banned
Good read. Rogers does good research. The Nielsen numbers about how the 84% of US households have 2 or more televisions is damning to the idea that Off-TV play means anything for the GamePad.
And compiled together, Iwata's apologies are quite damning. While I like the idea of a game developer at the head of Nintendo (giving 3 years to Luigi's Mansion is not a decision made with short term profit in mind), the launches of 3DS and Wii U have been disasters. And I own both. I might be ready to see what a new CEO could do.
And compiled together, Iwata's apologies are quite damning. While I like the idea of a game developer at the head of Nintendo (giving 3 years to Luigi's Mansion is not a decision made with short term profit in mind), the launches of 3DS and Wii U have been disasters. And I own both. I might be ready to see what a new CEO could do.
Calamari41
41 > 38
Iwata should have seen the writing on the wall in 2008/2009. Yes those were two of the best years for the Wii, but he knew that there was going to be absolutely nothing in the pipe for three/four years after that. That is when massive expansion should have been fast tracked, including opening new internal studios as well as external acquisitions.
How different would the Wii U's launch window have been if Nintendo had made the moves that Square did with regards to western developers? Just as an example. Hell, Nintendo was riding so high with so much cash back then, they could have probably bought freaking Capcom.
I know Iwata or whoever has said in the past that buying studios doesn't work because the talent leaves. Ok then, contact "star" developers and let them set up their own studio under you. Give them direction, but also give them freedom to make them happy. At the very least, work closely with third parties and give them your IPs. It's nice that Platinum is making W101 and Bayonetta, but why aren't they releasing Star Fox instead? I hope the shit show that was Other M didn't scare them away from this tactic for good.
How different would the Wii U's launch window have been if Nintendo had made the moves that Square did with regards to western developers? Just as an example. Hell, Nintendo was riding so high with so much cash back then, they could have probably bought freaking Capcom.
I know Iwata or whoever has said in the past that buying studios doesn't work because the talent leaves. Ok then, contact "star" developers and let them set up their own studio under you. Give them direction, but also give them freedom to make them happy. At the very least, work closely with third parties and give them your IPs. It's nice that Platinum is making W101 and Bayonetta, but why aren't they releasing Star Fox instead? I hope the shit show that was Other M didn't scare them away from this tactic for good.
curlyfriski
Banned
Are you telling me executives sometimes make promises that they have no intention, or ability, to keep?! Also, this
and this
are moronic. Measure success in terms of profits generated and market share gained and lost, not some specious good year/bad year system. Any analyst worth their salt knows Nintendo was massively overvalued at their market peak. I do think she's on point when she says this:
That's not fact. If you look at reviews and sales everything points to Nintendo games being better now. If sales aren't a good enough metric for you and reviews are too skewed for ya that I don't know how you would measure how good a game or a systems library is.
I mean if you enjoyed Nintendo's older games that's great! I'm sure a lot of people feel the same. I on the other hand prefer Nintendo of today.
The first loss in three DECADES. Let me repeat that. DECADES. You really think that was ever going to be avoidable? It was a matter of when not if. It was inevitable. Spin the bottle and see where it stops. He happened to be there.
That doesn't get him off the hook, but at the same time it was always going to happen. If it wasn't Iwata it would have been the next CEO. To make matters worse times have changed. People are talking about consoles becoming extinct after the next gen and your surprised a company that only makes consoles lost money?
MisterHero
Super Member
He deserves credit for not crashing Nintendo into the ground trying to keep up with the HD twins.
He deserves credit trying to adapt to the changing audience in Japan rather than abandoning it and outsourcing work to US developers, as other JP publishers have done.
Nintendo is still the #1 software publisher.
The 3rd-party support I've been clamoring for on Nintendo platforms is largely Japanese. Despite lacking on that front, their most vocal supporter right now is Ubi-soft and WB Games. RIP THQ.
Capcom's approach to westernization is arguably screwing with their games. Is RE6 a precursor for their other franchises?
Ken knows shit about videogames. He may actually be the "hero" of this generation, because it looks like PS4/720 have apparently sold gamers on expensive PC boxes.JordanN said:
Yeah, no shit? It was pretty freaking obvious Nintendo wants more traditional gamers this time around. Their capacity to deliver on this is in question, but let's not pretend they were trying to repeat the Wii Remote.
Iwata isn't the problem so much as Nintendo being too Japan centric. They could really use some foreign blood on the board of directors who can remind Nintendo that the rest of the world exists and is in fact its largest customers.
Right now Nintendo is just too Japan focused even if it has been successful for them prior. One thing Nintendo could afford to do is stop trying to reinvent the industry every gen. Yes innovation is great and it does help push things forward but you don't have to every single generation.
They could have easily expanded on the Wii controls without going gamepad crazy and in turn took that 50-60 dollars of BOM and put that directly into CPU/GPU and suddenly found themselves within range of PS4/720.
Nintendo is too Japanese and develops with japan in mind first and hopes the rest of the world jumps on.
Right now Nintendo is just too Japan focused even if it has been successful for them prior. One thing Nintendo could afford to do is stop trying to reinvent the industry every gen. Yes innovation is great and it does help push things forward but you don't have to every single generation.
They could have easily expanded on the Wii controls without going gamepad crazy and in turn took that 50-60 dollars of BOM and put that directly into CPU/GPU and suddenly found themselves within range of PS4/720.
Nintendo is too Japanese and develops with japan in mind first and hopes the rest of the world jumps on.
nhlducks35
Member
Please understand.
DonMigs85
Member
It's sad that Nintendo has to really rush development of many of their games now, while at the same time falling on their spacing-apart tricks from the N64 and GameCube days. I remember them admitting Mario Kart 7's development cycle was kinda rushed and some content had to be cut, and now we still have to wait till June for Animal Crossing.
Dave Meltzer
Banned
They absolutely were trying to repeat the Wii Remote. They saw the mass market appeal of tablets and thought the could sell people a convergence of gaming and tablet by putting shit like Tvii and whatever in the OS. The entire thing is trying to appeal to the kind of people who buy Kindles and iPads, the problem is its a shit version of them.
TreasureHunterG
Banned
Reviews and sales =/= Reception. If you judge by this criteria, then GTA IV and MGS4 are among the best games of all time.
This is a flawed argument.
The_Hitcher89
Member
If your avatar is a spoiler, I'm going to hunt you down.
Okay, Iwata. Let's see how the first half of the year plays out. I can forgive you for the first 3 rough months of the year, but don't disappoint us with the Spring software schedule and the system updates. Get your shit together and do not delay Pikmin 3 and Wonderful 101. However, by the looks of things, you've got no plans to release either of those games this month.
Read more at http://www.siliconera.com/2012/06/1...y-partnerships-for-wii-u/#eB16MZJAek0VcRzq.99
SolarPowered
Member
I'm well aware that Nintendo is too Japan-centric for it's own good, but I mostly thought it was related to stuff like TDP, console size and game localization. I didn't think it'd be pervasive enough to result in such an expensive addition to the hardware price.
I don't even know what to say.
I don't even know what to say.
I hate this. The moment I heard him apologize like that on the January ND I knew I would be hearing it a lot in the future lol. Also, it sounds too much like stalling. :|
Iwata did a great job with the Wii and DS trying to expand the market for videogames. The problem is that the release of the 3DS and WiiU failed to build on this new audience and it seems we are back to the way Nintendo was perceived in the Gamecube days, almost like the Wii or DS didn't exist. This Nintendo is fighting of three generations worth of bad decisions and splintered 3rd Party relations in the face of two strong, growing competitors in the console space and the new hotness in Apple. Nintendo doesn't have the luxury of slowly repairing relations, they need to act strong and fast now and build as much goodwill as possible so their next console can be taken seriously. Iwata has already made two mistakes in launching the 3DS and WiiU, Nintendo cannot afford to give him a chance to make a third or fourth mistake.
Freezie KO
Banned
Agreed. But forget about seeing the writing on the wall in 2008, Nintendo has been having droughts since the N64 days. They've had well over a decade to rectify the situation with how much content they can crank out.
If they can't rely on third parties, they need to be able to release on average 2 retail-quality games a month (1 3DS; 1 Wii U). The hybrid handheld/console, of course, will help solve this as it will consolidate their output on a single platform.
Very cutting article and incredibly interesting take on Iwata's rhetoric throughout his Presidency thus far. However, it is incredibly one-sided, only talks to "hardcore" gamers, and takes a lot of stuff out of context and re-frames it for modern use. So, the function of the article is effective, but flawed.
For example, it does not seriously take into account the intended audience for the Wii or the Wii U. It does not seriously take into account the quality of software released under Iwata. It does not seriously take into account the 1,000 new employees at Nintendo (a time when most are cutting). It does not seriously take into account the many new studios that Nintendo has helped create. It does not seriously take into account the restructuring (something that takes a long time) that has been in motion since 2011. It also does nothing to address the expanded audience that did buy and enjoy the Wii. We do not have a complete picture.
So, yes, Iwata has made some incredible blunders rhetorically, economically, and materially. Most of these blunders have been specifically accumulated at the cost to hardcore gamers and investors. I suppose asking Iwata to step down is a judgement call on whether the positives outweigh the negatives, and whether or not a new President would look at this situation and perhaps cut software quality in favor of consistent releases.
I honestly would rather have 1 classic game like Mario Galaxy, Skyward Sword, Metroid Prime 3, Punch-Out!!, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Sin and Punishment 2, and Smash Bros, (and I'm predicting Pikmin 3 as well along with several others I have not mentioned) a year than sacrifice them for 10 less-than-Nintendo-quality games (because there really is a difference in how Nintendo makes their games) a year.
That's just me.
For example, it does not seriously take into account the intended audience for the Wii or the Wii U. It does not seriously take into account the quality of software released under Iwata. It does not seriously take into account the 1,000 new employees at Nintendo (a time when most are cutting). It does not seriously take into account the many new studios that Nintendo has helped create. It does not seriously take into account the restructuring (something that takes a long time) that has been in motion since 2011. It also does nothing to address the expanded audience that did buy and enjoy the Wii. We do not have a complete picture.
So, yes, Iwata has made some incredible blunders rhetorically, economically, and materially. Most of these blunders have been specifically accumulated at the cost to hardcore gamers and investors. I suppose asking Iwata to step down is a judgement call on whether the positives outweigh the negatives, and whether or not a new President would look at this situation and perhaps cut software quality in favor of consistent releases.
I honestly would rather have 1 classic game like Mario Galaxy, Skyward Sword, Metroid Prime 3, Punch-Out!!, Donkey Kong Country Returns, Sin and Punishment 2, and Smash Bros, (and I'm predicting Pikmin 3 as well along with several others I have not mentioned) a year than sacrifice them for 10 less-than-Nintendo-quality games (because there really is a difference in how Nintendo makes their games) a year.
That's just me.
JordanN
Banned
So that's what it has come to now? Iwata was just doing nothing and then "boom", here comes the debt fairy to rain some losses on Nintendo? I guess you're right. If Iwata didn't do nothing then it would have been avoidable.
Read the rest of the post
What I'm saying is, apart from sales and reviews there is no way you can prove Nintendo games are worse. If the sales were worse or the reviews of the games had dropped that would be evidence of decline in quality, but like you said it wouldn't be proof.
But apart from them two metrics, how else would you prove to me Nintendo's output is worse now? Apart from the fact you just preferred them games more? Because to me I prefer Nintendo's games now more then ever.
I live on my own in a fairly nice town home, and I have 3. All used fairly often. Lol. But not like I bought them all at once. Bought 1st TV like 8 years ago, just never sold them
I imagine the current shareholder structure (in terms of who has voting stock) doesn't help in getting those outside of Japan onto the board. Of course not having non-Japanese board members isn't something that is unique to Nintendo, so far as Japanese companies go.
Excusing your blatant bias you love to shit out. Wii U was too little too late. If Nintendo wanted to capture to iPad crowd, they should have done it earlier. The Wii/DS was doing their schmick quite early in the mainstream appeal line, which is why they catched on.
Deadpandas
Member
Exactly. I've been saying it for a while now, but Iwata is a windbag. The success of both the Wii and the DS was down to being the right products at the right time. He got lucky with them an unfortunately for him lightning doesn't strike twice.
Time for his head to roll down a hill like the turkey muncher he is
Time for his head to roll down a hill like the turkey muncher he is
BotoxAgent
Member
god damn, that article, lol. Iwata and Nintendo need to get their shit together.
No, it really comes off as an attempt to build on the traditional gamer experience. TVii itself apparently (if we were to believe the creators of it) only came to Nintendo after a Western start-up contacted Nintendo after the consoles introduction at E3 and it was a NoA project.
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
Upon reflection, my money would be on: there's nothing wrong with Iwata per se, he has always shown every sign of being a smart developer with a good instinct for genuinely interesting ideas. That doesn't make you automatically the world's greatest businessman though. Combine that with him being given the job of digging Nintendo out of the pit they dug for themselves with the N64 - something a lot of fans never saw (and still don't see) because of fond memories of Mario 64 or Ocarina of Time.
The Wii was insightful, no matter how much bitterness it earned from people who didn't like anyone else playing video games. Nintendo's problem aside from Iwata trying to figure out what to do, was absolutely that the market they further opened up with the Wii was eaten by the sudden and shocking rise of the smartphone and tablet world.
You don't see a lot of bullshit instigated by that blog on GAF, but mainly it's the attitude that Iwata, Miyamoto, Aonuma, etc are literally like mean old men sitting and rubbing their hands, imagining how they can hurt gamers today. Along with the occasional invocation of some specific attack on Iwata, Miyamoto, Aonuma, etc.
The Wii was insightful, no matter how much bitterness it earned from people who didn't like anyone else playing video games. Nintendo's problem aside from Iwata trying to figure out what to do, was absolutely that the market they further opened up with the Wii was eaten by the sudden and shocking rise of the smartphone and tablet world.
You don't see a lot of bullshit instigated by that blog on GAF, but mainly it's the attitude that Iwata, Miyamoto, Aonuma, etc are literally like mean old men sitting and rubbing their hands, imagining how they can hurt gamers today. Along with the occasional invocation of some specific attack on Iwata, Miyamoto, Aonuma, etc.
I'm less interested in him "breaking promises" and much more concerned that he doesn't seem to be learning. He seems to be caught off guard every single time third parties don't get on board, as if he was confident that this time they'd truly be getting Bioshock and GTA.
Since at least the middle of the Wii days, they should have been operating under the assumption that those parties will never be coming to their platforms and adjusted accordingly. If they ever came, it could be seen as a bonus. Instead, they seem to be constantly caught flatfooted, sure that this time they've finally created a machine that will attract the Western AAA developers, and when that doesn't happen it leaves gaps that they somehow were not expecting.
Since at least the middle of the Wii days, they should have been operating under the assumption that those parties will never be coming to their platforms and adjusted accordingly. If they ever came, it could be seen as a bonus. Instead, they seem to be constantly caught flatfooted, sure that this time they've finally created a machine that will attract the Western AAA developers, and when that doesn't happen it leaves gaps that they somehow were not expecting.
Now, now, at least they didn't announce a Bioshock game knowing they didn't actually have one yet. Give Nintendo some credit here.